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Kickle
Wanderer



Registered: 12/16/06
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Concepts that come out of absence
#18772116 - 08/29/13 08:18 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Health for example. We don't give it much thought until we become sick or we are starting to mend. Health seems to be the absence of illness rather than something of its own. Health is how we describe the absence of illness.
Or confidence. Confidence seems to be the absence of self-doubt rather than the presence of something. Often those who try to fake confidence arrive at arrogance or as unnecessarily heavy handed. IMO it's easy to see that trying to be confident is not the same as having a lack of self-doubt.
How about calm? Can you create calm or is calm the absence of disturbance? When we say a lake is calm what are we really saying?
Patience?
Can you think of any other qualities that are really best examined by what they lack rather than what they bring? Does this suggest anything about what is beneath the surface or not?
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Tmethyl
Smear in the shale


Registered: 07/16/12
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Re: Concepts that come out of absence [Re: Kickle]
#18772158 - 08/29/13 08:43 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hmm.
"You don't know what you had, until its gone" Comes to mind.
Another as you've described would be pain, isn't pain just not feeling normal? When you feel normal you don't say "I'm not hurting"
Interesting as always Kicks.
-------------------- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--



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Re: Concepts that come out of absence [Re: Tmethyl] 1
#18772252 - 08/29/13 09:41 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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well that's what aging is about - you start as a baby and slowly get the grasp of it all and then at the very peak of your powers it all starts to slip away until you're a baby again.
-------------------- ...or something
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Concepts that come out of absence [Re: eve69]
#18772288 - 08/29/13 09:55 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Only it seems with humans. In the wild no creature makes it to that second baby state. That final humiliation is spared them.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Tmethyl
Smear in the shale


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Re: Concepts that come out of absence [Re: Icelander]
#18772337 - 08/29/13 10:12 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I disagree, just yesterday I watched a decrepit old cow struggle to stand up and fail at sufficiently feeding herself. She was much like a calf.
-------------------- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Concepts that come out of absence [Re: Kickle]
#18772750 - 08/29/13 11:53 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Bliss is the absence of suffering
Wisdom is the absence of ignorance
Absolute truth is the absence of half truth
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Concepts that come out of absence [Re: Chronic7]
#18772790 - 08/29/13 12:01 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Knowing is the absence of knowledge
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Tmethyl
Smear in the shale


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Re: Concepts that come out of absence [Re: Chronic7]
#18772833 - 08/29/13 12:13 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Chronic said: Knowing is the absence of knowledge
Tricky. Brilliant, in a way. To say: I know that I know nothing • much like Socrates
-------------------- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Concepts that come out of absence [Re: Tmethyl]
#18772867 - 08/29/13 12:20 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Forget everything, and you remember
Know nothing, and you know everything
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Concepts that come out of absence [Re: Chronic7]
#18772891 - 08/29/13 12:27 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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This, is the absence of that
The 'absence of that' being the seeing that 'that' is actually This, so there is only This
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Tmethyl
Smear in the shale


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Re: Concepts that come out of absence [Re: Chronic7]
#18772928 - 08/29/13 12:42 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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-------------------- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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r72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.




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Re: Concepts that come out of absence [Re: Kickle]
#18775385 - 08/29/13 10:03 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Chronic said: Knowing is the absence of knowledge
What does it then mean to know something? Or to not know something?
Quote:
Kickle said: Health for example. We don't give it much thought until we become sick or we are starting to mend. Health seems to be the absence of illness rather than something of its own. Health is how we describe the absence of illness.
It's so interesting because I've recently had a health scare. I never thought about my health or the state of my body until it was brought to my attention that I may be ill. It's crazy how that works. I can't really think of any other examples, I just was stricken by this example because I saw it in my life.
-------------------- Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Re: Concepts that come out of absence [Re: Kickle] 1
#18778912 - 08/30/13 07:24 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: Health for example. We don't give it much thought until we become sick or we are starting to mend. Health seems to be the absence of illness rather than something of its own. Health is how we describe the absence of illness.
Or confidence. Confidence seems to be the absence of self-doubt rather than the presence of something. Often those who try to fake confidence arrive at arrogance or as unnecessarily heavy handed. IMO it's easy to see that trying to be confident is not the same as having a lack of self-doubt.
How about calm? Can you create calm or is calm the absence of disturbance? When we say a lake is calm what are we really saying?
Patience?
Can you think of any other qualities that are really best examined by what they lack rather than what they bring? Does this suggest anything about what is beneath the surface or not?
Innocence is the absence of guilt.
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Concepts that come out of absence [Re: r72rock]
#18780304 - 08/31/13 04:22 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
r72rock said:
Quote:
The Chronic said: Knowing is the absence of knowledge
What does it then mean to know something? Or to not know something?
What i meant is that by not indulging the mind in dualistic knowledge you come to know yourself as the one in all
To know something there must be the seer/the knower, and the seen/the known, so to know oneself you simply remain self aware with no other thing known, and in that, everything is known, because you are everything
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Penelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic



Registered: 07/31/09
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Re: Concepts that come out of absence [Re: Kickle]
#18780702 - 08/31/13 09:24 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Satiation is the absence of hunger.
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full blown human
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Fryer Mike
Lost in the fourth dimension.


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Re: Concepts that come out of absence [Re: Penelope_Tree]
#18780725 - 08/31/13 09:35 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I would say that confidence is moreso the absence of self-doubt. If you look at less intelligent animals, you see that they WILL do what they need to do to survive, even if it's crazy. Humans create their own restrictions, like self-doubt.
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DON'T READ THIS! Any information/ pictures/ text that implies I grow or use illegal substances is false and/ or for entertainment purposes. Nothing I say or submit to this forum or to any other should be taken literally. I am become death, destroyer of worlds. Fryer Mike
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Kickle
Wanderer



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Re: Concepts that come out of absence [Re: White Beard]
#18786003 - 09/01/13 04:18 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Chronic said: Wisdom is the absence of ignorance
Quote:
White Beard said: Innocence is the absence of guilt.
my two favorites
i'll add:
darkness is the absence of light stillness is the absence of movement
An honorable mention to a friend who put forth that loneliness is not simply the absence of company, but that there is an underlying tension present. I think that's worth considering. Many of my personal pursuits are about less being more. Less stress, less desire, and less baggage mentally and materially. But this all hinges on the idea that, in their absence, something more valuable is there. Something more free even.
Yet I do agree that loneliness points at a certain tension that exists in absence as well. And so even as absence seems linked to so many wonderful ideas, I also think that if one begins to dig into many of them they quickly find a tension pushing the opposite direction.
And the question for me becomes, is this tension a bottomless pit? It's directly linked to the tension between life and death IMO and seems so much larger than any individual while at the same time being deeply personal. The tug of war has been going for a long time but I am the one who is amidst it now. Right now.
And while I know many say that to die before you die is a goal of sorts. And it makes sense in one way due to absence/cessation being linked to so many virtues. Patience, stillness, wisdom, silence, etc. But in another way it makes no sense at all. To die without actually dying means that life persists. And if life persists, how could any of that tension between life and death cease?
It seems more reasonable to assume a middle ground of sorts to me but it hardly comes as a comfort. I've been amidst the middle ground for a while and although it's better than fighting any one direction and exerting only little pushes here and there to stay relatively centered, nothing has fully ceased nor is there any reason to suppose it ever will. I even have a hard time believing that personal death actually ceases any of the large scale tension between life and death. Why should it? Life just gives up? It seems really unlikely.
And so I find myself stuck looking around and thinking, fuck me. This is it.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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