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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Violence, coercion, capital punishment
    #18770855 - 08/28/13 09:54 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

A lot of shroomerites are anti-violence, anti-coercion. Can anyone explain why? Violence and coercion are part of the natural order, if it comes down to morality how do you justify your morality? Morality is an abstract concept

For myself I take a middle ground, violence is sometimes justified and often not. Coercion is the same way, under certain circumstances I don't see any problem with it. An off-hand example, someone steals something and is coerced into returning it.

As far as capital/corporal punishment, I'm personally in favor. Not just in favor of death row but in my opinion violence is a kinder and cheaper punishment than our current way of doing things. Going back up to theft, if someone steals a car instead of putting them in jail and wasting tax payer money, why not just flog and fine them? If the fine goes unpaid then apply more flogging and after repeated offense then resort to throwing them in jail for years of their life.
Another issue I have with capital punishment is the method of execution, its all very cruel these days. Chemical injections, electrocution, gas chambers. Cruel and expensive. Personally I'd prefer a quick death by firing squad, its messy but that is not an issue of importance on a scale where death is concerned.

Thoughts?


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InvisibleRaven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞
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Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
Re: Violence, coercion, capital punishment [Re: Repertoire89] * 1
    #18771202 - 08/28/13 11:21 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I am personally not in favor of the whole societal game, I see it as inevitably and always effete or heading in that direction, a dangerous game destined for unfairness and corruption.

That hypothetical man would be flogged for stealing while some other puffed up highfalutin piece of trash gets away with murder and theft on a grander scale simply because his, what in The Art of War- Sun Tzu is called 'Shih' comes from his place in a set of complex relationships which gives him that power.
It is not justice and in my opinion not even worth fighting for, as the realities of our human tendencies will likely always be at odds with our highest spiritual and intellectual aspirations and goals as a species. (Hence, why I see it as effete)

A passage regarding the kind of shit bird I am talking about and the structures/circumstances that make people like him exempt from the circus of a game and its rules we set up for ourselves.
"The Rearing Dragon sports in the mists,
The Flying Dragon rides on the clouds.
But when the clouds are gone and the mists have cleared,
They are no different than earth worms."
Three Essays- Taking Whole-
Sun Tzu

Maybe we will get better at it as we evolve, but from what I can see, nothing has changed as far back as recorded history goes, besides the systems becoming more complex.


--------------------
To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Violence, coercion, capital punishment [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #18771428 - 08/29/13 12:30 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Well there's always corruption, my idea behind corporal punishment is compassion. Rather be flogged than spend a year in prison. Society is always corrupt, and with any number of people it is inevitable. The system I'm most in favor of is no system at all, but it only works with a very low population


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Offlinelolwut
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Registered: 08/14/10
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Re: Violence, coercion, capital punishment [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18771430 - 08/29/13 12:31 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
A lot of shroomerites are anti-violence, anti-coercion. Can anyone explain why? Violence and coercion are part of the natural order, if it comes down to morality how do you justify your morality? Morality is an abstract concept

For myself I take a middle ground, violence is sometimes justified and often not. Coercion is the same way, under certain circumstances I don't see any problem with it. An off-hand example, someone steals something and is coerced into returning it.

As far as capital/corporal punishment, I'm personally in favor. Not just in favor of death row but in my opinion violence is a kinder and cheaper punishment than our current way of doing things. Going back up to theft, if someone steals a car instead of putting them in jail and wasting tax payer money, why not just flog and fine them? If the fine goes unpaid then apply more flogging and after repeated offense then resort to throwing them in jail for years of their life.
Another issue I have with capital punishment is the method of execution, its all very cruel these days. Chemical injections, electrocution, gas chambers. Cruel and expensive. Personally I'd prefer a quick death by firing squad, its messy but that is not an issue of importance on a scale where death is concerned.

Thoughts?




Empathy (the poor man's cocaine)


--------------------
Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth, and taste...

:haha:


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
Re: Violence, coercion, capital punishment [Re: lolwut]
    #18771435 - 08/29/13 12:33 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Empathy for who? A murderer in prison being executed?


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Offlinelolwut
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Registered: 08/14/10
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Re: Violence, coercion, capital punishment [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18771443 - 08/29/13 12:35 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

For whoever is on the receiving end of the violence/coercion - "I wouldn't want that to be me" is enough for people to be against it imo


--------------------
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:haha:


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Registered: 11/15/12
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Re: Violence, coercion, capital punishment [Re: lolwut]
    #18771452 - 08/29/13 12:39 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

So if someone breaks into your house and is preparing to rape/murder your daughter, what would you do?

And where do we draw the line?


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Offlinelolwut
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Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 2,782
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Re: Violence, coercion, capital punishment [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18771469 - 08/29/13 12:43 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I'd defend my daughter because I have more love and empathy for her than the criminal. At least that's my interpretation of how the instincts work.

Quote:

And where do we draw the line?




:shrug:

Every culture has it different, meaning no one is ultimately right and my opinion is useless


--------------------
Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth, and taste...

:haha:


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InvisibleRaven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞
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Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
Re: Violence, coercion, capital punishment [Re: lolwut]
    #18771502 - 08/29/13 12:54 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

lolwut said:
Empathy (the poor man's cocaine)




Eyedea?


--------------------
To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.


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Offlinelolwut
bad motherfucker


Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 2,782
Loc: back in black
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: Violence, coercion, capital punishment [Re: Raven Gnosis] * 1
    #18771520 - 08/29/13 01:01 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)



--------------------
Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth, and taste...

:haha:


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