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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy
Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: How to dial in your monotubs like a champ *DELETED* [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18765581 - 08/27/13 07:56 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said:
Does anyone post here looking for opinions from other members? Is it safe to assume you all are asking me these questions?
Just curious
Frank, I always value the hell out of your opinion and I think that of all the TCs out there, you've probably done the most for making this hobby accessible at the bulk level. Your beginning-to-end approach is invaluable, your explanations are clear, and they make easily available a lot of knowledge that is only available through an eye-bleeding amount of lurking.
But yeah, I totally look for other members to debate things, even in your threads. I like earnest debate very much, and I'm always disappointed when I see someone I admire yelling at all these kids and telling them to get off his lawn.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition
Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: How to dial in your monotubs like a champ *DELETED* [Re: Psilicon]
#18765618 - 08/27/13 08:04 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Like I said in an earlier post tonight, if we have differing opinions, please let me know. You'll see plenty of great discussion with all matter of differing opinions throughout every one of my threads.
It takes quite the heated debate before I shut that down.
But me and M4B weren't debating.
He gave wrong info which I needed to correct.
He did not know the answer, having never run a tub like that. So his speculation was completely unfounded and yet he passed it off as fact.
Which, throughout my own threads, has been my pet peeve.
Edited by FrankHorrigan (08/27/13 08:09 PM)
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Mush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!
Registered: 07/31/13
Posts: 4,419
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: How to dial in your monotubs like a champ *DELETED* [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18765743 - 08/27/13 08:32 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said:
Quote:
Mush4Brains said: I'll steer clear from posting in your threads from now on.
If that's how you wanna be, playing the "victimized, earnest helper" card like that...well, see ya later
Quote:
kharshroomer said:
[Mush4Brains] answer is correct is it not?
No, it was not.
Does anyone post here looking for opinions from other members? Is it safe to assume you all are asking me these questions?
Just curious
I'm not playing a victim. You're the one who felt the need to show control over your "territory."
You still haven't explained why my answer is incorrect. In fact, your answer saying that the substrate level would be receiving too much FAE seems to support my solution. Would plugging the bottom holes tight with poly not help alleviate that problem?
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition
Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: How to dial in your monotubs like a champ *DELETED* [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18765767 - 08/27/13 08:38 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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No man, you can spin it how you like but this is how it went down:
Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: Like I said in an earlier post tonight, if we have differing opinions, please let me know. You'll see plenty of great discussion with all matter of differing opinions throughout every one of my threads.
It takes quite the heated debate before I shut that down.
But me and M4B weren't debating.
He gave wrong info which I needed to correct.
He didn't know the answer, having never run a tub like that. So his speculation was completely unfounded and yet he passed it off as fact.
Which, throughout my own threads, has been my pet peeve.
Stuffing poly in tiny holes does not work like you would think, it's going to suffocate them. With that many holes he is better off not using a weird setup like that in the first place, which is what I said to him and he agreed.
The person's question was answered and he thanked me.
Besides, it was me he asked
When you get 15 PMs a day and people use your write ups to ask you questions that you can barely keep up with, please let me know if you have reconsidered making a big stink over something small like this.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut
Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: How to dial in your monotubs like a champ *DELETED* [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18765976 - 08/27/13 09:13 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: Does anyone post here looking for opinions from other members? Is it safe to assume you all are asking me these questions?
Just curious
Yes, it is safe to assume. It's the only reason I would post here.
Bitches be trippin'
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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flipsidetrue
Registered: 05/26/13
Posts: 364
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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Re: How to dial in your monotubs like a champ *DELETED* [Re: SpitballJedi]
#18766077 - 08/27/13 09:30 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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I agree! you def answered my question and i like how it was a straight forward answer and i am grateful for that! beats reading and reading only to get thrown around in circles
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition
Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: How to dial in your monotubs like a champ *DELETED* [Re: flipsidetrue]
#18766140 - 08/27/13 09:42 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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budkatz
Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 87
Last seen: 20 hours, 34 minutes
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Re: How to dial in your monotubs like a champ *DELETED* [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18766155 - 08/27/13 09:47 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks. Wasn't sure about misting too much. Will try it. Sort of a balancing act with the low RH here.
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budkatz
Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 87
Last seen: 20 hours, 34 minutes
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Re: How to dial in your monotubs like a champ *DELETED* [Re: budkatz]
#18766183 - 08/27/13 09:54 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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And yes, I post in Frank's thread hoping Frank has time to chime in. I'd start a new thread otherwise.
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Midnight Cyclone
StrangerDanger
Registered: 05/29/13
Posts: 399
Loc: oo ess aye oo ess aye
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: How to dial in your monotubs like a champ *DELETED* [Re: budkatz]
#18769168 - 08/28/13 04:27 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
budkatz said: And yes, I post in Frank's thread hoping Frank has time to chime in. I'd start a new thread otherwise.
boom
Quote:
budkatz said: Thanks. Wasn't sure about misting too much. Will try it. Sort of a balancing act with the low RH here.
Yeah, just listen to Frank:
Quote:
You can mist more if the tub is drying up.
Stuff the poly a little tighter on the top holes.
Or, what I do is run a humidifier in the grow room. This will help a lot if your RH is that low.
I understand if you might not have access to a humidifier to run in the room, but that is something that could help you not have to mist so often.
If you can't run a humidifier then just stuff the holes a bit tighter on top so you're not losing so much humidity so fast. This should help to reduce the amount of times you'll have to mist, as well.
Just don't spray the mister to where it might bruise the substrate, it can slow growth rate and injure/quite possibly kill baby pins. As seen in the grow in my sig. It depends how fine your mister is, but simply increasing the space the water has to travel to meet the substrate will help to make it more gentle. It's as simple as putting your tubs on the ground and misting them from above.. which is what I do.
Read what RR has to say in the middle picture of my sig. It should help add value to what Frank and I are saying.
Peace
Edited by Midnight Cyclone (08/28/13 04:28 PM)
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MastaBlastar
Ruler Of Barter Town
Registered: 04/06/13
Posts: 1,069
Loc: Barter Town, AUS
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: How to dial in your monotubs like a champ *DELETED* [Re: Midnight Cyclone]
#18776652 - 08/30/13 09:40 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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To chime in which is worth a whole lotta , I have followed franks tek since the beginning and have not been steered wrong by him and to come on HIS thread and argue after he gives nothing but good advice is petty. Trying to call him out and make him look like an asshole and just a bitch move.
-------------------- Everything I have said, may say, will say, am thinking about saying and/or thinking/typing/dreaming/writing is in all likelyhood made up and has no factual basis in reality whatsoever, and is likely all plagiarized and copy pasted straight from someone else, so get mad at them . Just a warning
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Hooray4Hoffman
Researcher
Registered: 11/19/12
Posts: 105
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Re: How to dial in your monotubs like a champ [Re: MastaBlastar]
#18804243 - 09/05/13 05:18 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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First off, thanks for the great writeups, Frank.
I'd like to know if more consensus has developed around the timing to pull tape and stuff polyfill. Frank suggests to do so once it appears 100% colonized, but I've read many times elsewhere that others will give a few days of consolidation time and even wait until pins develop. At least one TC (TranscendingLife) advocates this.
Some say that consolidation benefits the mycelium as it's still getting ready for fruiting mode. On the other hand, I can see how going right into FAE and increased evaporation could initiate rapid pinning.
Obviously, both methods have worked for people. So I wonder if it's six of one, half dozen of the other, or if there's a prevailing argument out there.
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druranium
Farmer
Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 68
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: How to dial in your monotubs like a champ *DELETED* [Re: FrankHorrigan] 1
#18807418 - 09/06/13 01:07 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Cb411
New grower
Registered: 08/03/13
Posts: 110
Loc: New York new york
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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Re: How to dial in your monotubs like a champ *DELETED* [Re: druranium]
#18836200 - 09/13/13 09:43 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have just read through all of these how you get things done links and found them very informative. I am planning on building my first monotub in a few days and just had a few questions. Do you recommend a certain amount/size/placement for the holes, and it seems like you don't case your substrate or do you and I just missed that. I appreciate the write up and any additional help. Thx
-------------------- "Reality is a crutch for people who can't handle drugs. "
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Trippy_Penguin
Registered: 03/18/12
Posts: 624
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: How to dial in your monotubs like a champ *DELETED* [Re: Cb411]
#18836214 - 09/13/13 09:46 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Refer to this for instructions on building.
You don't see casing because it's not necessary with cubes.
Edit: Then I read earlier posts and found out that Frank is indeed Walter White and I'm in his territory. I'll let myself out and go smoke a bowl.
Edited by Trippy_Penguin (09/13/13 10:02 AM)
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition
Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: How to dial in your monotubs like a champ *DELETED* [Re: Trippy_Penguin]
#18837075 - 09/13/13 01:55 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hooray4Hoffman said: First off, thanks for the great writeups, Frank.
I'd like to know if more consensus has developed around the timing to pull tape and stuff polyfill. Frank suggests to do so once it appears 100% colonized, but I've read many times elsewhere that others will give a few days of consolidation time and even wait until pins develop. At least one TC (TranscendingLife) advocates this.
Some say that consolidation benefits the mycelium as it's still getting ready for fruiting mode. On the other hand, I can see how going right into FAE and increased evaporation could initiate rapid pinning.
Obviously, both methods have worked for people. So I wonder if it's six of one, half dozen of the other, or if there's a prevailing argument out there.
I know that many people's opinions have changed over time with this.
It does work both ways.
My two cents on the practical application of consolidating bulk is this:
When I'm fruiting my tubs, I try to avoid aborts whenever possible. I hate the little fuckers, taking up space on my substrate and failing to mature into the beautiful mushroom I know they could be.
Back when I first started working with tubs a lot, I did consolidate everything. The pinsets could end up being quite massive!
But come harvest time, I would find a shitload of my pretty pinset aborted. That sucks.
When colonizing your tub, the RH is near 100%.
Your mycelium needs this (and high CO2 levels) to grow rapidly while it consumes the available substrate. After 100% colonization, the mycelium realizes it has no more food available to it and starts trying to pin. This process of going from "ready" to "pinning" takes a few days to a week depending on what you are working with.
Here is my theory:
By keeping the colonizing conditions (100% RH and high CO2) when your tub is starting to knot up, you are essentially "tricking" the mycelium into thinking that 100% RH and high CO2 levels are what it has to work with.
When you change this abruptly (at the sight of pins, for example) you are going to be making the conditions less ideal for the pinset that has been produced. That leads to a larger number of aborts.
You can certainly get a larger pinset when you consolidate your tubs. I don't have any doubt.
But I've said it before, a larger pinset is not necessarily a better pinset.
For these reasons, I choose to give it fresh air as soon as it is 100% colonized. By doing this I introduce my mycelium to its fruiting conditions as soon as possible. so that it can be "accustomed" to them and fruit as well as it can with what it has got. I hope this makes sense
Quote:
petersodm said: Refer to this for instructions on building.
You don't see casing because it's not necessary with cubes.
I would refer to this for your answer, cb411. I have not gotten around to building my tub tek.
I would only recommend a casing layer if you are fruiting in a greenhouse or if you are growing penis envy variants.
Quote:
Edit: Then I read earlier posts and found out that Frank is indeed Walter White and I'm in his territory. I'll let myself out and go smoke a bowl.
You know you're welcome here petersodm, your advice is sound and your counterpoints are well versed
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Cb411
New grower
Registered: 08/03/13
Posts: 110
Loc: New York new york
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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Re: How to dial in your monotubs like a champ *DELETED* [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18838012 - 09/13/13 06:08 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks great write up learned a lot much appreciated
-------------------- "Reality is a crutch for people who can't handle drugs. "
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druranium
Farmer
Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 68
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: How to dial in your monotubs like a champ *DELETED* [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18852546 - 09/17/13 07:07 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hey Frank, what are your thoughts on dunking the sub? I've had an uneven pinset from the beginning so I'm not sure which flush I'm on...could be 1-2-or 3 but I've had some nice results (for a MS noob ) since the heat wave passed. Harvested everything and will probably have 3 or 4 dried oz when the dehydrator is finished doing its thing.
The sub still looks and smells great and is producing condensation though not as much as the beginning (when it was dripping down the sides). It's been in fruiting conditions for 17 days, but I think it has some more life left in it.
My main question is what do I do with the liner when I dunk? Just leave it as it is? Get rid of it and put a fresh one in? I made a mistake and pulled back the liner from the sub a bit in some areas to harvest a few edge fruits earlier and then I had a bumper crop of side fruits that were the largest I have ever seen. Let most of them mature but some were way down in there and produced thick mangled blob fruits that are kind of interesting, ropey consistency, and yeah pretty packed full of magic. This isn't a great pic but it kinda gives you an idea of what happened:
And here it is in it's minor glory. small fruits but it's been a great learning experience for me and exceeded my expectations...I thought the thing would be green by now
Thanks again for your awesome guides they really helped me to understand and implement the process!
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up
Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: How to dial in your monotubs like a champ *DELETED* [Re: druranium]
#18910003 - 09/30/13 05:15 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hey, am I supposed to have dry rings around my bottom holes? I don't have any problems working with my polyfill, so I dont know if I'm doing it right
I have to really pull and push to get the poly to stick in there, but today I noticed on my Otto-inspired bucket o'fungus that I have a dry line going upwards from my bottom holes. The poly itself is easy to shape. The next step would be using tools to push in the poly..too tight?
I used 4x 3/4" holes on the bottom and two slightly larger (1") top holes. Cut a hole in the neatly fitting lid and taped glad to the hole.
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Midnight Cyclone
StrangerDanger
Registered: 05/29/13
Posts: 399
Loc: oo ess aye oo ess aye
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: How to dial in your monotubs like a champ *DELETED* [Re: druranium]
#18910471 - 09/30/13 09:06 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
druranium said: Hey Frank, what are your thoughts on dunking the sub? I've had an uneven pinset from the beginning so I'm not sure which flush I'm on...could be 1-2-or 3 but I've had some nice results (for a MS noob ) since the heat wave passed. Harvested everything and will probably have 3 or 4 dried oz when the dehydrator is finished doing its thing.
The sub still looks and smells great and is producing condensation though not as much as the beginning (when it was dripping down the sides). It's been in fruiting conditions for 17 days, but I think it has some more life left in it.
My main question is what do I do with the liner when I dunk? Just leave it as it is? Get rid of it and put a fresh one in? I made a mistake and pulled back the liner from the sub a bit in some areas to harvest a few edge fruits earlier and then I had a bumper crop of side fruits that were the largest I have ever seen. Let most of them mature but some were way down in there and produced thick mangled blob fruits that are kind of interesting, ropey consistency, and yeah pretty packed full of magic. This isn't a great pic but it kinda gives you an idea of what happened:
And here it is in it's minor glory. small fruits but it's been a great learning experience for me and exceeded my expectations...I thought the thing would be green by now
Thanks again for your awesome guides they really helped me to understand and implement the process!
I think Frank missed this question, considering it's been almost two weeks. He's a busy guy, and I'm sure he didn't mean to ignore you. I'll try and help you out.
If you have 3 or 4 dried ounces and you haven't made an attempt to dunk yet... That's awesome! Your sub should definitely have some life in it. At 17 days you're likely moving out of flush 2 now and your next will be flush 3. What I'd try to do, if I were you, would be to dunk before the 3rd flush. This is generally what I try to do and when I have noticed is the best time to dunk. Although, I found my poo substrates can go an extra flush (through the third) before dunking sometimes, but my coir/verm substrates seem to dry up much more rapidly.
When the sub has spent a lot of its water supply, you can tell by simply lifting the tub and judging how much the weight has changed. Some people even use this strategy to their advantage by actually using the harvest weight (wet weight) of the shrooms, multiply by 9/10, and add that amount of water back to the substrate. This makes sense based on the fact that shrooms are approximately 90% water weight.
Ex: 280g wet weight x 9/10 = 252, so you want to replace the substrate with 252g of water. Meaning you came out with about 28g of dried mushrooms, or 1/10 the wet weight.
Have you gone over your dunk procedures? How do you plan to dunk? My favorite way to dunk in a monotub is to drill a small hole in the bottom of the tub, on one of the corners, and plug it with some type of cork. (I use a joint filter, which works surprisingly well as long as the hole is small enough) Just fill the monotub up with water until the substrate almost wants to float, but doesn't quite do so, set the lid back on and forget about it for a couple hours. I generally dunk for about 4 hours at a time, but have heard people dunking for many different times from 1-12 hours. You'll have to find what works for you. When the time is up, just unplug the cork and let the water drain. This way helps me because it leaves little invitation for contamination.
Now to the liner. Your liner is going to separate from the sides of the substrate eventually, there's no stopping that. Over time your substrate will shrink as it loses nutrients, and the liner is no longer going to help too much on the sides of the substrate. This is fine though because as your substrate shrinks, it becomes easier and easier to harvest mushrooms from the side. The MAIN thing your liner is doing is hopefully preventing bottom pins... those are a bitch and more trouble than they're worth IMO.
Don't replace your liner, it won't do any good. Just keep the same liner you have and ride it out. If you replace the liner, you're going to create a perfect microclimate on the bottom of the substrate which is essentially what the original liner is trying to prevent! Because of the way the substrate is "stuck" to the original liner, there is no exchange of fresh air on the bottom of the substrate.
I hope I could help, without intruding.
Awesome pictures btw! (I removed them in this post for sake of space)
Edited by Midnight Cyclone (09/30/13 01:06 PM)
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