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OfflineMidnight Cyclone
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Re: all tubs contamined [Re: tbagtag]
    #18765301 - 08/27/13 06:43 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I've read through this thread and can't find where the OP identifies what the specific contamination is.

He also states
Quote:

the all contaminated soon after the holes were stuffed



so I'd like to know the environment in which you officially set the tubs into fruiting.

If a sub is contaminated prior to fruiting, then more times than not it will stall out and not finish colonizing and show only a few fruits IF you're lucky.

So, my questions for the OP are:

1. What specific contamination are you referring to?
2. What was the environment you fruit in?
3. Did your sub colonize 100% before you set it into fruiting?

If it's trich, question 2 will hopefully answer what you did wrong.
If it's not trich, and you say no to question 3, then it is your spawn.


There has been too much going around lately regarding proper pasteurization vs bucket tek. I'm not sure that this guy's problem is relevant to that argument whatsoever. Keep your threadjacking harmless discussion elsewhere.

Thanks :thumbup:


Edited by Midnight Cyclone (08/27/13 06:44 PM)


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InvisibleHypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs

Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
Re: all tubs contamined [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18765323 - 08/27/13 06:47 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
I bet your culture or spore syringe was contam'd.

100% failure rate is usually a sign of something going wrong initially, esp since you properly pasteurized.



My sentiments.  I have gotten a dirty syringe from a sponsor in the past.  It makes you rip your hair out, because you assume that you have something sterile.  How do I know it was the syringe?  Because EVERY grow I do uses multiple syringes, but one collective of bulk.  I pasteurize all of my coir/verm/straw together, and split it when I spawn....Every jar and tub that ever touched my EQ MSS failed either in the jar, or after spawning to bulk in a mini mono. 

IT drove me insane for weeks leading up to the evidence.  I have taken to mixing bulk and subs in a SAB just to remove the chance of things landing on it.  I know RR states that you basically cannot ruin a fully colonized substrate, but at that point I was taking no chances proving something. 

Since this I have moved up to taking my own prints.  Its the only way I really feel safe using a MSS any more.


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: all tubs contamined [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #18765420 - 08/27/13 07:15 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Except I did say something extremely similar by saying TL and Damion5050 were doing this long before this new "proper pasteurization" kick came into play, with absolutely amazing results.

You ever seen TL's one flush wonder tubs?  And he's still doing it, I don't see why I can't support one method and defend it when it works for me and others :shrug:




I was here when TL got his TC badge. Of course I know who he is. WE've spoken personally on numerous occasions.

I'd say the method of pasteurization has about zero to do with the final yield.

It plays a part in whether the substrate will make it that far though.

Have you seen my tubs? :derfase:


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


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AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


Edited by FrankHorrigan (08/27/13 07:25 PM)


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OfflineMidnight Cyclone
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Re: all tubs contamined [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18765454 - 08/27/13 07:22 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Have you seen my tubs? :derfase:




Gettin' me all hot and bothered with those. :rocketcrotch:


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OfflineMush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
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Re: all tubs contamined [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18765525 - 08/27/13 07:41 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Except I did say something extremely similar by saying TL and Damion5050 were doing this long before this new "proper pasteurization" kick came into play, with absolutely amazing results.

You ever seen TL's one flush wonder tubs?  And he's still doing it, I don't see why I can't support one method and defend it when it works for me and others :shrug:




I was here when TL got his TC badge. Of course I know who he is. WE've spoken personally on numerous occasions.

I'd say the method of pasteurization has about zero to do with the final yield.

It plays a part in whether the substrate will make it that far though.

Have you seen my tubs? :derfase:




Yeah, I asked you about your tubs earlier today, as a matter of fact.  This isn't a big dick contest here dude, we all have methods that work for us, and methods that don't.  TL and Damion brought me from an SGFC full of cakes to monos full of shrooms.  The bucket tek works for a lot of people, it doesn't work for others.  You gotta find what works in your environment and go with it :shrug:


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OfflineMidnight Cyclone
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Re: all tubs contamined [Re: Midnight Cyclone]
    #18765558 - 08/27/13 07:50 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Midnight Cyclone said:
Keep your threadjacking harmless discussion elsewhere.




Not to quote myself but.. take your shit elsewhere.


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: all tubs contamined [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #18765595 - 08/27/13 07:58 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Except I did say something extremely similar by saying TL and Damion5050 were doing this long before this new "proper pasteurization" kick came into play, with absolutely amazing results.




Those amazing results are the reason it's so popular. Lot's of people do have amazing results with the bucket. I'm not trying to say otherwise.

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Yes, I've had tubs go green just like other growers, but the bucket tek has done nothing but make my whole process easier.  Saves me time and effort.  It's worth it to me.

We've seen the success other TCs have had with it, no, it doesn't work for everyone, but it isn't this terrible tek that has no legs to walk on.

You ever seen TL's one flush wonder tubs?  And he's still doing it, I don't see why I can't support one method and defend it when it works for me and others :shrug:




Nobody is trying to take the legs away from your methods. You do not need to defend it because it's not under attack.

The only thing I have attacked is your OP. It is still wrong no matter how many success stories you post.

I agree, sometimes contams are hidden in your spawn, I mention it in my 1st post. I agree, a lot of people have a lot of success with the bucket tek. And again, I also suspect the OP's spawn.

However, because of my own experience and the experience of other respectable members, I have not ruled out sub prep. This is because I'm not sure proper pasteurization has occurred. I've seen bucket tek and a pillow case in 158F water for an hour.

As we know, the bucket tek can fail and the pillowcase in water doesn't say much. Was the core temp raised to temp? Or was it just the water at 158F? After soaking, was it brought to field capacity? Was it sopping wet from soaking? Was there a leaching affect?:shrug:

The only thing I'm trying to offer is a way to figure out the problem. It's easy to say "fix the spawn", but is harder in practice when you can't see or smell what's wrong.

However, proper pasteurization is easier to accomplish and there's room for error with coir and verm.

So, if you know your sub is properly pasteurized and you still have issues, then you can be more certain it's your spawn and can look in to that.

The subject has special importance to me because I struggled. I was told and read time and time again that it must be my spawn. I tried many ways to prepare spawn. Thanks to Frank, I gave up the bucket tek and my success rate sky rocketed. I just don't want the OP to go through the same disappointment again and again like I did.

Take it for what it's worth.

OP, good luck and consider my thoughts. Sorry for the jacking


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: all tubs contamined [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18765637 - 08/27/13 08:08 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

:whathesaid:

Hey mush4brains, I think you missed the key point of my discussion there, bud:

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:

I'd say the method of pasteurization has about zero to do with the final yield.

It plays a part in whether the substrate will make it that far though.





I betcha TL and other TCs would agree with me.

Quit jacking the thread. Pasteurization is not the OP's problem here :whack:


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


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OfflineMush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
Posts: 4,419
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: all tubs contamined [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18765674 - 08/27/13 08:15 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Except I did say something extremely similar by saying TL and Damion5050 were doing this long before this new "proper pasteurization" kick came into play, with absolutely amazing results.




Those amazing results are the reason it's so popular. Lot's of people do have amazing results with the bucket. I'm not trying to say otherwise.

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Yes, I've had tubs go green just like other growers, but the bucket tek has done nothing but make my whole process easier.  Saves me time and effort.  It's worth it to me.

We've seen the success other TCs have had with it, no, it doesn't work for everyone, but it isn't this terrible tek that has no legs to walk on.

You ever seen TL's one flush wonder tubs?  And he's still doing it, I don't see why I can't support one method and defend it when it works for me and others :shrug:




Nobody is trying to take the legs away from your methods. You do not need to defend it because it's not under attack.

The only thing I have attacked is your OP. It is still wrong no matter how many success stories you post.

I agree, sometimes contams are hidden in your spawn, I mention it in my 1st post. I agree, a lot of people have a lot of success with the bucket tek. And again, I also suspect the OP's spawn.

However, because of my own experience and the experience of other respectable members, I have not ruled out sub prep. This is because I'm not sure proper pasteurization has occurred. I've seen bucket tek and a pillow case in 158F water for an hour.

As we know, the bucket tek can fail and the pillowcase in water doesn't say much. Was the core temp raised to temp? Or was it just the water at 158F? After soaking, was it brought to field capacity? Was it sopping wet from soaking? Was there a leaching affect?:shrug:

The only thing I'm trying to offer is a way to figure out the problem. It's easy to say "fix the spawn", but is harder in practice when you can't see or smell what's wrong.

However, proper pasteurization is easier to accomplish and there's room for error with coir and verm.

So, if you know your sub is properly pasteurized and you still have issues, then you can be more certain it's your spawn and can look in to that.

The subject has special importance to me because I struggled. I was told and read time and time again that it must be my spawn. I tried many ways to prepare spawn. Thanks to Frank, I gave up the bucket tek and my success rate sky rocketed. I just don't want the OP to go through the same disappointment again and again like I did.

Take it for what it's worth.

OP, good luck and consider my thoughts. Sorry for the jacking




Hey dude, I appreciate the discussion, I wish you weren't opted out so I could give you 5:mushroom2: for being a part of it.  You're 100% right that it could be the pasteurization tek that does it, I didn't mean to suggest otherwise, but the fact that that every tub went belly up was more likely due to spawn than substrate IMO. We're good dude I didn't mean any offense, and I'm sure you didn't either.


Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
:whathesaid:

Hey mush4brains, I think you missed the key point of my discussion there, bud:

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:

I'd say the method of pasteurization has about zero to do with the final yield.

It plays a part in whether the substrate will make it that far though.





I betcha TL and other TCs would agree with me.

Quit jacking the thread. Pasteurization is not the OP's problem here :whack:




I don't think that I was implying that the pasteurization procedure was the problem, I was simply replying to the people that were telling him that he needs to "properly pasteurize."  I'm really not trying to start shit because The Shroomery is the #1 spot on the internet for this kind of stuff so please stop taking everything I say offensively.


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: all tubs contamined [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #18765706 - 08/27/13 08:23 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not taking it offensively, I just feel like I'm correcting you a lot tonight :shrug:

Don't take it personally.

Proper pasteurization is a plus for anyone having contam problems.

That's all we are saying. It would not hurt for the OP to cover all his bases and properly pasteurize since none of us can definitively say where his issue occurred at.

I don't get why you are in such a tizzy defending the bucket tek, it isn't under attack..

It can cause multiple tubs to go bad at once. I've seen it. I was simply correcting you on that, initially.


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: all tubs contamined [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #18765744 - 08/27/13 08:32 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

M4B, :noway2:

Just kidding :hug:

I feel your 5 in my heart. We're straight.

I admit I can be a little sensitive on this subject.


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A little civility goes a long way

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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: all tubs contamined [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #18765780 - 08/27/13 08:41 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:

I admit I can be a little sensitive on this subject.




I remember :singletear:


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: all tubs contamined [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #18765827 - 08/27/13 08:48 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I think we're all straight here.  Frank, you and I both agree that it was most likely the syringe that did OP in.  I've been drinking a little/taking a little speed so I probably got defensive a little easy.  You're good with your techniques and you're teaching a lot of people a foolproof way to grow.  Didn't mean to turn this, or anything else into a shit talk thread.

:hug:


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: all tubs contamined [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #18765835 - 08/27/13 08:49 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

That's cool brotha. We're square.

I get a little nasty when I've been drinking heavily...someone should keep me off of here at that point :lol:

But I'm not drinking tonight, just having a bit of a shit week so I too apologize if I came off as unnecessarily harsh.

Hope you have a good night :thumbup:


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: all tubs contamined [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18765989 - 08/27/13 09:16 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Quote:

SpitballJedi said:

I admit I can be a little sensitive on this subject.




I remember :singletear:



:lmafo:


--------------------
The Basics
A little civility goes a long way

The Noob Forum
The Hammock Hangers' Forum


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OfflineJive turkey
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Re: all tubs contamined [Re: Midnight Cyclone]
    #18813222 - 09/07/13 10:09 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Midnight Cyclone said:
I've read through this thread and can't find where the OP identifies what the specific contamination is.

He also states
Quote:

the all contaminated soon after the holes were stuffed



so I'd like to know the environment in which you officially set the tubs into fruiting.

If a sub is contaminated prior to fruiting, then more times than not it will stall out and not finish colonizing and show only a few fruits IF you're lucky.

So, my questions for the OP are:

1. What specific contamination are you referring to?
2. What was the environment you fruit in?
3. Did your sub colonize 100% before you set it into fruiting?

If it's trich, question 2 will hopefully answer what you did wrong.
If it's not trich, and you say no to question 3, then it is your spawn.


There has been too much going around lately regarding proper pasteurization vs bucket tek. I'm not sure that this guy's problem is relevant to that argument whatsoever. Keep your threadjacking harmless discussion elsewhere.

Thanks :thumbup:





1. Trich
2. two tubs were fruited in carpeted bedroom and one in a room with plastic sheets on floor and walls. all at 75f with a small fan on low oscilating in the corner.

the moisture of the first two tubs seemed dead on, the last one however was way to wet. I used 2brick coir 4qt verm 8qt water and 11 qt spawn. it colonized 100% in 12days and showed trich 3 days into friuting.

3. 2 tubs were 100% white on top, one had a casing layer and myc was poking though in a few dozen spots


one syringe was homemade one was from a vendor.


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OfflineMidnight Cyclone
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Re: all tubs contamined [Re: Jive turkey]
    #18814268 - 09/08/13 08:10 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I'd have to say it was your spawn.

You have a couple of half-ass controls (different bedrooms for fruiting, different syringes for inoculation) which rule out other possibilities like a single bad syringe or the room is infested with trich.

I'd suggest cleaning the hell out of your house. When you think you can't clean anything else, double the amount of cleaning you just did. I don't think this is the culprit, but better safe than sorry.

Quote:

it colonized 100% in 12days and showed trich 3 days into friuting.




Likely, your tub had trich the whole time. Trich is difficult for a beginner to notice early because it's similar to mushroom mycelium in the beginning. When you say trich showed on the third day, you mean the tub was already turning green the third day? Which means the trich was either introduced when you birthed the tub, or it already had trich prior to fruiting because it does take a couple days for the trich to actually sporulate and turn green.

There's no use in getting down about it. Clean, clean and clean some more. Look over your sterile tek and see if there's anything that could use some beefing up, like building a SAB or flowhood.

Good luck on your next project :thumbup:


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: all tubs contamined [Re: Midnight Cyclone]
    #18814317 - 09/08/13 08:40 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I don't think anyone can say with certainty exactly what the problem is, we can only give probabilities.

If it's bad spawn, then you have to figure out what's making it bad. Lot's of people say "fix the spawn" without actually trying to help fix it. Culprits, in order of probability, include:
1. contamed inoculum (syringes in your case)
2. inoculation technique
3. Improper sterilization
4. failed filter lids

I put syringes first because syringes and spore prints are never 100% contam free if they were taken from fruits that grew in a non-sterile environment, and is generally the case. This includes vendors and homemade.

Cube mycelium and trich look very similar to the noob eye. Post pics of your spawn jars at various stages for help identifying. I you can identify trich in your grains, then the battle is half won.

If it's improper substrate pasteurization, then you just need to properly pasteurize.

The trick is to change something about the way you do things and see if it improves your success rate. In your case, there may be more than one thing that needs changed.

If you only ever listen to me about one thing, make it this:
Only use "best chance of success" methods. Mostly listen to TC's, they have the tag for a reason. Stop making syringes and get in to agar. Okay, that was three things.


--------------------
The Basics
A little civility goes a long way

The Noob Forum
The Hammock Hangers' Forum


Edited by SpitballJedi (09/08/13 08:43 AM)


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