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Delarge
The #1 Player


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Request to move salvia to ODD
#18765491 - 08/27/13 07:33 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't think salvia should be a sub-category for the psychedelic experience, and I'm requesting to move it to other drug discussion.
In my experiences salvia should NOT be classified as a psychedelic. If anything it's almost the exact opposite of a psychedelic, a sort of drug that breaks all the rules.
It doesn't show you light, it shows you darkness.
-------------------- I will wipe from the earth man whom I have created. Man and Beast, crawling creature and bird of the air as well. For I regret that I made them.
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Shroomhunter510
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Delarge]
#18765529 - 08/27/13 07:42 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I had more intense visuals off salvia than I did off shrooms. They were pretty dark like you stated, salvia seemed to grab me by teeth and rip my mouth through my ass
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Thisfire
Chiller


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It's totally a psychedelic, and a very powerful one at that. It effects people differently too, so your experiences may not reflect those of others. I'm not a fan of the body high, but the visions are very intense and dream-like.
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Let your imagination fill in the blanks.
Weed, Salvia, DXM, MDMA, Speed, Azures, Cubes, Nitrous, DMT, LSD /, Peyote, Ayahuasca
Edited by Thisfire (08/27/13 08:09 PM)
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eMpire420
Suicide Is Bliss



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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Thisfire]
#18765698 - 08/27/13 08:21 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
I don't think salvia should be a sub-category for the psychedelic experience, and I'm requesting to move it to other drug discussion.

Salvia is widely accepted as an atypical psychedelic. I don't get your argument at all, it should definitely stay in this forum.
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Labs4858


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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: eMpire420]
#18765715 - 08/27/13 08:25 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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KingKnowledge
Around



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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Labs4858]
#18765723 - 08/27/13 08:26 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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This argument fails. People love salvia here
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ImFukNCLUELESS
I SPIT ON PEOPLE


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Salvia is the worlds most powerful enthogen
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how to pass a drug test FOO MAN'S WBS TEK damions5050's coir tek DONATE TO THE "IM FUCKING BROKE FUND" 1PtqhURaxtCpGpeUBNqeZi7XnmKwWe8WWf "my girl said it's OK to have a little penis I prefer she didnt have a penis at all"-prisoner#1
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Delarge
The #1 Player


Registered: 11/04/10
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i think salvia is a very powerful hallucinogen, but not a psychedelic.
datura also gives extremely intense and dream like visuals... so can cough syrup..
shrooms, dmt, and acid give way different visuals, and a light that is a sort of teacher.
im not putting salvia down, i just don't think it belongs in the same category as psychedelics.
-------------------- I will wipe from the earth man whom I have created. Man and Beast, crawling creature and bird of the air as well. For I regret that I made them.
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,561
Loc: Utah
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Delarge]
#18765958 - 08/27/13 09:10 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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ODD vs. PE has nothing to do with whether or not something is psychedelic. There are lots of psychedelics that can only be discussed in ODD, and some non-psychedelics that can be discussed in PE.
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spixce
Up, Up & Away



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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Delarge]
#18765985 - 08/27/13 09:15 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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i don't know for sure it sure doesn't match up with like LSD or DMT but i have no idea if its a Psychedelic i say its a Delirirant , Dissociative , and a Psychedelic but that's just me
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Delarge
The #1 Player


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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: spixce]
#18766073 - 08/27/13 09:30 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's just the other sub-categories are DMT, LSD, LSA, Mescaline, Mushrooms, Marijuana.
and then we have salvia grouped in with these...

it's use as a tool is completely different than the others.. i see the beginning of the universe and then salvia smokes me, not just literally... its so dark... its like the yin to psychedelics yang.
-------------------- I will wipe from the earth man whom I have created. Man and Beast, crawling creature and bird of the air as well. For I regret that I made them.
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spixce
Up, Up & Away



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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Delarge]
#18766094 - 08/27/13 09:33 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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i see what you mean
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Delarge
The #1 Player


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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: spixce]
#18766135 - 08/27/13 09:41 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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at least someone can see my point of view 
anyways, salvia drops you down. (triangle(plant) brain/into the underworld/night time) psychedelics pick you back up! (halo's(animal brain)/going to heaven/ the light (the sun) )
-------------------- I will wipe from the earth man whom I have created. Man and Beast, crawling creature and bird of the air as well. For I regret that I made them.
Edited by Delarge (08/27/13 09:45 PM)
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: spixce]
#18766154 - 08/27/13 09:47 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I see what you mean but feel it belongs even less in ODD with the heroin users! It is without question a tool of mental/universal exploration even if it doesn't in effect match up to the others in the psychedelic category.
Its natural, non habit forming or addictive, very safe physically and can break one through into otherworldly and alien realms.
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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spixce
Up, Up & Away



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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: wolf8312]
#18766199 - 08/27/13 09:58 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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hey they're all drugs i view most of them the same drugs are dangerous but we do what we do anyway smoking anything will cause lung problems
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sonamdrukpa
Wayfarer


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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: wolf8312]
#18766230 - 08/27/13 10:07 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think we shouldn't classify something as psychedelic if it doesn't mess with 5HT2A receptors as a primary effect.
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eMpire420
Suicide Is Bliss



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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: sonamdrukpa]
#18766318 - 08/27/13 10:26 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I comment clearing up that it's widely accepted as an atypical psychedelic (which is why it doesn't fit in with LSD, shrooms, etc) yet you guys continue to argue whether it's a psychedelic.
Just because it's not a happy go lucky recreational psychedelic like some of the others doesn't mean it can't be used as a very powerful tool.
You can argue and flame me, but I'm just stating facts.
Quote:
Wikipedia: Classical or serotonergic psychedelics (agonists for the 5-HT2A serotonin receptors) include LSD (also known as "acid"), psilocin (the active constituent of psilocybin mushrooms, commonly known as "magic mushrooms" or "shrooms"), mescaline (the active constituent of peyote), and DMT (the active constituent of ayahuasca and potentially an endogenous psychedelic compound). Salvia divinorum is an atypical psychedelic that has been gaining popularity over the past decade, due to its legality in many US states. It is often compared to DMT due to its short and very intense trip. A few newer synthetics such as MDMA and 2C-B have also enjoyed some popularity. Marijuana, one of the most widely used psychoactive drugs in the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_drug#Examples
Erowid even has salvia listed as an atypical psychedelic.
I think salvia would be much more out of place in ODD.
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Panellusstipticus
Corned Beef Hash

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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: eMpire420]
#18766341 - 08/27/13 10:30 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Philosophically, I think you may have a point, but I think it fits the definition of a Psychedelic. I am not the most experienced person with Salvia (hopefully that will change soon) but I am not really sure I agree that it shows you darkness. I have read way too many trip reports of powerful insights that are not necessarily dark, I think Saliva's threshold for crazy trips just happens to be lower.
IMHO.
Good topic though
-------------------- *Notice: My participation in this forum is purely for my own education and entertainment and may involve acting out parts which are not consistent with my personality or activities in real life. Any comments I make should not be taken as literal, but rather as part of this act. This is all research!
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theRAPeutic
Hueman


Registered: 07/22/13
Posts: 8,702
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: eMpire420]
#18766343 - 08/27/13 10:30 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Salvia not a psychedelic??
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Delarge
The #1 Player


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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: theRAPeutic]
#18766442 - 08/27/13 10:54 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have never become a tree person branching out into multiple dimensions on traditional psychedelics and i havnt seen the beginning of the universe happen in front of my eyes on traditional psychedelics.
salvia to me feels the DMT version of my datura trips. More like a dream thats dreamier than a dream and more real than reality,
not the way i feel AWAKE on psych's...
like mushrooms or DMT is the skin, the earth, and the egg, and i am LOVED
and salvia is like the veins and the inner guts and neurons and under world. and i am ALONE
it makes me wonder what kind of trips you guys are having?
-------------------- I will wipe from the earth man whom I have created. Man and Beast, crawling creature and bird of the air as well. For I regret that I made them.
Edited by Delarge (08/27/13 11:08 PM)
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Delarge]
#18766535 - 08/27/13 11:23 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
it makes me wonder what kind of trips you guys are having? 
Ha not as blissful sounding as yours I can assure you! Trapped as a metal cog for all eternity I believe my last one was about 7 years ago! Vial is still in the freezer!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,561
Loc: Utah
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: wolf8312]
#18766572 - 08/27/13 11:33 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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You don't need to store salvia in the freezer.
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sonamdrukpa
Wayfarer


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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: nooneman]
#18766594 - 08/27/13 11:38 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said: You don't need to store salvia in the freezer.
Well, you don't NEED to.
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SalviaGod
Bad Person, Good Guy



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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Delarge]
#18766621 - 08/27/13 11:46 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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OP obviously doesnt know how to do salvia :P
Quote:
Delarge said:
shrooms, dmt, and acid give way different visuals, and a light that is a sort of teacher.
Are you saying salvia is not a teacher? Cuz thems are fightin words.
It sounds like somebody needs to do more salvia. if the trips are dark thats kind of on you, because she shows you yourself.
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Delarge
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: SalviaGod]
#18766634 - 08/27/13 11:50 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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dude. salvia is like the female teacher of sex and death and power. and non-duality. i feel like other people in this thread have not done strong enough extracts or maybe just not smoked enough...
or smoked too much :p
and traditional psychs are like the male teacher of love and wisdom and happiness and compassion and logic and order. and duality.
-------------------- I will wipe from the earth man whom I have created. Man and Beast, crawling creature and bird of the air as well. For I regret that I made them.
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: sonamdrukpa]
#18766639 - 08/27/13 11:51 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Well, you don't NEED to.
Ha exactly! I keep everything in the freezer tbh! Though I did wonder if this actually helps to retain potency in any way whatsoever!
Considering I never use salvia, I might as well store it in the bin really!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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sonamdrukpa
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Delarge]
#18766646 - 08/27/13 11:52 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Delarge said: dude. salvia is like the female teacher of sex and death and power. and non-duality. i feel like other people in this thread have not done strong enough extracts or maybe just not smoked enough...
or smoked too much :p
and traditional psychs are like the male teacher of love and wisdom and happiness and compassion and logic and order. and duality.
WOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH dude. Hold up with your psychedelic gender norms. Ayahuasca, for one, is definitely female.
And I definitely think there are some transgender psychs out there. 2c-p, for instance.
Edit: I actually made a poll about this a while back: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16869266
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Edited by sonamdrukpa (08/27/13 11:55 PM)
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Delarge]
#18766657 - 08/27/13 11:56 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Delarge said: dude. salvia is like the female teacher of sex and death and power. and non-duality. i feel like other people in this thread have not done strong enough extracts or maybe just not smoked enough...
or smoked too much :p
and traditional psychs are like the male teacher of love and wisdom and happiness and compassion and logic and order. and duality.
Hang on dude if saliva is the female and traditional psychs the male, how come you trying to exile the bitch to ODD ? Like sending Eve out of the garden of Adam!
Now if Salvia was a Panda I could maybe see your point!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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Delarge
The #1 Player


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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: sonamdrukpa]
#18766658 - 08/27/13 11:56 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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but ayahuasca has a bunch of other plants included in different brews, sometimes including datura.
im not trying to EXILE salvia. i just think its very odd that we would put it with all the traditional psychs. when its much closer to a datura experience than a shroom one.
maybe we should get a sub forum on here for other hallucinogens like deliriants and dissacioatives.. and then keep stuff like heroin, crystal, and those types of drugs in ODD.
-------------------- I will wipe from the earth man whom I have created. Man and Beast, crawling creature and bird of the air as well. For I regret that I made them.
Edited by Delarge (08/28/13 12:01 AM)
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SalviaGod
Bad Person, Good Guy



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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Delarge]
#18766674 - 08/27/13 11:59 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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OP, it is not about high extracts AT ALL. If anything they ruin it. Like i said, she shows you yourself, so if you are getting sex, death, and power trips, thats a you thing.
She can be just as loving and wise as any of the others. But she doesnt react well to any disrespect or resistance. If you really wanna know what shes all about... Stop, Drop, and Listen.
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Delarge
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: SalviaGod]
#18766688 - 08/28/13 12:04 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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im not saying she is bad, she just took my "clothes" and i went back to the source of power, back in time, to a backwards land, to the beginning of the universe, to the shadow self, to a place only filled with mirrors, to the non dual realm, to the non complex plant life consciousness.
i went into my experiences with open arms, and the hippie mentality, looking to accept ANYTHING she gave me.
and she took me to hell where i became a powerful god.
im not saying its good or bad, i just think it goes against the way we usually choose to use other psychedelics.
-------------------- I will wipe from the earth man whom I have created. Man and Beast, crawling creature and bird of the air as well. For I regret that I made them.
Edited by Delarge (08/28/13 12:05 AM)
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SalviaGod
Bad Person, Good Guy



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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Delarge]
#18766696 - 08/28/13 12:06 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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And how do you usually choose to use other psychedelics ?
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Delarge
The #1 Player


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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: SalviaGod]
#18766709 - 08/28/13 12:09 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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psychedelics make you small, so you can enjoy the depths of being you, and knowing who you are and how you fit into this world. they open your eyes to all the details of every experience. and they connect you to the higher self(god)
salvia makes you large so you can enjoy the depths of being everyone and everything, like when noah built an ark to survive the flood. salvia floods the entire world and destroys everything but what you hold on to. and you become that higher self (god)
also all the other analogies i used in my previous posts.
-------------------- I will wipe from the earth man whom I have created. Man and Beast, crawling creature and bird of the air as well. For I regret that I made them.
Edited by Delarge (08/28/13 12:10 AM)
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Delarge]
#18766719 - 08/28/13 12:11 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
im not trying to EXILE salvia.
Yeah I was just kidding dude!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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Delarge
The #1 Player


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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: wolf8312]
#18766720 - 08/28/13 12:12 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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its hard to tell when thats a lot of other peoples honest opinion on here...
-------------------- I will wipe from the earth man whom I have created. Man and Beast, crawling creature and bird of the air as well. For I regret that I made them.
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SalviaGod
Bad Person, Good Guy



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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Delarge]
#18766736 - 08/28/13 12:16 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Delarge said: psychedelics make you small, so you can enjoy the depths of being you, and knowing who you are and how you fit into this world. they open your eyes to all the details of every experience. and they connect you to the higher self(god)
salvia makes you large so you can enjoy the depths of being everyone and everything, like when noah built an ark to survive the flood. salvia floods the entire world and destroys everything but what you hold on to. and you become that higher self (god)
also all the other analogies i used in my previous posts.
Its just trying to get you to appreciate things from a different point of view, i get what youre saying about it being the opposite, but its just two sides of the same coin.
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Delarge]
#18766788 - 08/28/13 12:34 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
maybe we should get a sub forum on here for other hallucinogens like deliriants and dissacioatives.. and then keep stuff like heroin, crystal, and those types of drugs in ODD.
Yep I think so too! But still wouldn't agree with putting Salvia in with them. Dissociatives are also anesthetics and there's no way I'd go under the knife after a bowl of sally D!
If anything I believe owing to the special unique nature of Salvia it deserves to be all alone in its own little sub forum! I mean you are right, nothing else is like it, and I don't really consider it psychedelic either!
The only thing I ever found remotely like Salvia was actually solvents (did them when I was like 13)! Very short lived fucked up dreams that take you away in a dissociative manner that can at the same time be very easy to snap out of with physical distraction!
You could hardly though put Salvia in a solvent category could you? I think the decision takes into account a number of factors with the physical effects being just as important as the mental effects, and the fact that it isn't a toxic chemical or addictive also being very important!
Probably best where it is here in the psychedelic forum to be honest with its weird half uncle status!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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theRAPeutic
Hueman


Registered: 07/22/13
Posts: 8,702
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: SalviaGod]
#18766796 - 08/28/13 12:37 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I agree I'm not really into salvia. I mean... everytime I do it, on the comedown I'm like "why the hell do I keep doing this?" I don't like the weird buzzy/skin peeling off body high and the one time I broke through, which was my 2nd time trying salvia, 20x... was really and towards the end I started to feel like I had went insane and was never coming back/ stuck in the timeless loop. Was pretty scary but WOW i felt amazing after I had come back. Like a new person was really great. I think the best thing about my Salvia trips is when I come back honestly.
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Delarge
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: wolf8312]
#18766805 - 08/28/13 12:39 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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to me its the most like datura, just the DMT version of it.
and yeah i think its a destruction plant, or it has the properties of FIRE!
and you can steal the fires of the god like prometheus.
you don't really have a legitimate human consciousness on it, but you can bring back treasures from the depths of the underworld.
-------------------- I will wipe from the earth man whom I have created. Man and Beast, crawling creature and bird of the air as well. For I regret that I made them.
Edited by Delarge (08/28/13 12:40 AM)
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Enslyn



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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Delarge]
#18766936 - 08/28/13 01:34 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I personally would call salvia a dissociative deliriant before calling it a psychedlic. But I don't think it should be moved from this forum, it fits well.
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Delarge]
#18766963 - 08/28/13 01:43 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't understand why people care if a certain drug is talked about in this forum.
I understand like prescription pills and of the sorts, but comeon...If you don't like salvia posts in PE there's a pretty simple solution....
...Don't click on the posts that say salvia in the title!
..And if the title is misleading and doesn't say anything about salvia..Just hit the back button!
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: cez]
#18767004 - 08/28/13 02:01 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
I don't understand why people care if a certain drug is talked about in this forum.
I understand like prescription pills and of the sorts, but comeon...If you don't like salvia posts in PE there's a pretty simple solution....
...Don't click on the posts that say salvia in the title!
I don't think its cause he dislikes Salvia so much that he wants to move it! I think this thread is more about how to correctly categorize it!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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cez

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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: wolf8312]
#18767072 - 08/28/13 02:50 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Agreed.
After reading through this thread, my post comes off asshole-ish.
I sowwy
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wolf8312
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: cez]
#18767091 - 08/28/13 03:07 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Agreed.
After reading through this thread, my post comes off asshole-ish.
I sowwy 
Ah don't be so hard on yourself man!
Not areshole-ish more so as someone who dived right into the thread without bothering to read what was going on first! We've all done it!
Give yourself credit for having the balls to own up! Most people would have turned the thread into a petty three week battle to prove that the OP did in fact have a vendetta against Salvia -whilst knowing that in fact he didn't- simply to avoid having to admit they were wrong!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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jjjcmzzt
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: wolf8312]
#18768619 - 08/28/13 02:11 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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OP, I understand that salvia can produce dark trips but so can traditional psychs. I mean Terence McKenna stopped taking mushrooms because of an incredibly dark experience he had on them. If you have never had a terrifying ego death experience, then I personally believe your judgement of psychedelics is too narrow. These substances can produce a broad range of experiences ranging from ineffably beautiful to unprecedentedly horrifying. Salvia is equally capable of doing both of these things.
Quite honestly, salvia should be in a category of its own. Salvia is like all three types of hallucinogens - Psychedelics, dissociatives and deliriants - in one. I mean it can disconnect you from your body, cause massive disorientation, incredible visuals (visual and auditory) and more. To say that salvia isn't a psychedelic just because the experiences you have on it aren't always blissful is just wrong. Hell, if salvia is the key to a bad trip then salvia should be the greatest teacher of all psychedelics in my opinion. A bad trip has the ability to change my life a LOT more than a smooth, easy going good trip.
Just my 2 cents.
-------------------- Psychedelics i want to take: Mushrooms, Salvia (weak), Salvia (strong), Cannabis, LSA, Cactus, LSD, DMT, Bufotenine, 5-meo-DMT, 4-aco-DMT, Bufocin (theoretical as of now), and a long long time from now, Datura (deliriant). "LSD is a psychedelic substance which occasionally causes psychotic behavior in people that have never taken it." DEATH METAL \m/
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MoonSpirit
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Delarge]
#18768898 - 08/28/13 03:39 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Delarge said: I have never become a tree person branching out into multiple dimensions on traditional psychedelics and i havnt seen the beginning of the universe happen in front of my eyes on traditional psychedelics.
salvia to me feels the DMT version of my datura trips. More like a dream thats dreamier than a dream and more real than reality,
not the way i feel AWAKE on psych's...
like mushrooms or DMT is the skin, the earth, and the egg, and i am LOVED
and salvia is like the veins and the inner guts and neurons and under world. and i am ALONE
it makes me wonder what kind of trips you guys are having? 
Salvia's like that for me too, but I still consider it a psychedelic.
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Delarge
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: MoonSpirit]
#18768922 - 08/28/13 03:44 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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really the real reason i am bringing all of this up is because i wouldn't want people ignorantly to go into salvia thinking its the same as the others in the psychedelic experience category. which is the mistake i made as a youngster.
on psychedelics i see god. I perceive. on salvia i become god. I penetrate.
and i think its important to learn about god before you hold all the responsibilities of being able to dream the entire world.
LSD,DMT,Mushrooms, etc. are like the University of spirituality. like college. salvia is like Post- Graduate work.
-------------------- I will wipe from the earth man whom I have created. Man and Beast, crawling creature and bird of the air as well. For I regret that I made them.
Edited by Delarge (08/28/13 03:49 PM)
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Nature Boy
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Delarge]
#18769710 - 08/28/13 06:15 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I for one don't want to have to nip over to the ODD forum to find information and trip reports on salvia. As between the two forums, I believe the admins made the correct decision when they determined it belonged in the PE.
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SLiCeR
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Nature Boy]
#18769735 - 08/28/13 06:19 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nature Boy said: I for one don't want to have to nip over to the ODD forum to find information and trip reports on salvia. As between the two forums, I believe the admins made the correct decision when they determined it belonged in the PE.
N.B.
Exaclty
-------------------- My Trade List
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cubehead87
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: SLiCeR]
#18771609 - 08/29/13 01:59 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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lol salvia put me in an odd state. i swear i was a tentacle being diced up by a big ass butcher knife, and every cut felt like utter bliss.
its definately a psych, and a powerful one.
-------------------- "Outside is pure energy and colorless substance. All of the rest happens through the mechanism of our senses. Our eyes see just a small fraction of the light in the world. It is a trick to make a colored world, which does not exist outside of human beings." - Albert Hoffman
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Rose
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Delarge] 1
#18771741 - 08/29/13 03:28 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Great discussion.
The Staff has looked into this very issue on several occasions. Salvia does seem like the odd one on the list but it remains here. Why? The answer is very simple and frankly kind of boring. Salvia is physically safe and hardly addictive.
Things get removed from the list primarily for being potentially physically dangerous.
Our list would make more sense if we also included say MDA, MDMA and DXM to round it out but alas, they all come with too much risk for this forum. But like salvia, these substances seem to compliment the psychedelic traveler.
RC's are out because some are dangerous, some are not, but their names are so similar it would be far too easy for someone on this forum, to misread a post and give out potentially dangerous dosage advice. So off to ODD with them. No dosage advice allowed. Of course this means we sacrifice some greats. If any of the safe RC's become household names, we will likely add them to the list. There was a time when people in general didn't know the difference between LSD, LSA and LDS. Now LSD is a household name.
So a long, boring answer. That is why salvia remains here though.
I actually agree with you. Salvia is not a true psychedelic but neither is weed. People who try salvia tend to be trippers not crackheads. This is simply the best forum for people to get the most knowledgeable replies about the subject. It would be a shame to take dosage advice away from such a physically safe substance by moving it to ODD. We don't want the attention we may draw if some idiot gives bad dosage advice on an unsafe substance. It also could harm the OP and anyone else who clicks on or googles the thread... but we want to allow open discussion for as many substances as possible considering the circumstances.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Rose]
#18771765 - 08/29/13 03:50 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thank you, Cervantes
finally a good explanation!
-------------------- I will wipe from the earth man whom I have created. Man and Beast, crawling creature and bird of the air as well. For I regret that I made them.
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Rose
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Delarge]
#18771859 - 08/29/13 04:51 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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My pleasure.
I want to add this: Psychedelics are not entirely safe but this is a psychedelic forum. We compare the relative safety of other substances to the relative safety of our allowed psychedelics.
I would love to add tobacco and alcohol to our list, but even they fail the test. We may look the other way from time to time when these subjects come up, though.
In spite of being a drug forum, we do keep safety in mind.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Universe
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Rose]
#18772006 - 08/29/13 07:06 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I smoked salvia and I saw walls breathing and patterns on the ceiling, so yes, it is a psychedelic.
Here's what I don't get - This forum considers marijuana to be a psychedelic, but talk of K2/Spice, which is synthetic marijuana is prohibited and perfectly civil threads get locked instantly. You just can't talk about it in this section.
Meanwhile, RC's that mimic other psychedelics are freely discussed with no moderator intervention. Does this make sense? If so, then how?
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Universe]
#18772023 - 08/29/13 07:22 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Dark or not it is psychedelic. I do understand how it could be classified differently but in the end its a plant that alters perception.
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JacksonMetaller
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Gorlax]
#18772028 - 08/29/13 07:25 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm not for moving salvia to the ODD, but OP has a point that our logic is entirely inconsistent. 2c-b and ketamine belong on this forum by that logic
Moving salvia too ODD would be stupid though because dosage advice is more likely to be helpful than detrimental with this particular drug. Same with the ones I mentioned
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Spacerific
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OP, I have no idea what you're talking about, with Sally not being a psychedelic.
I've started with it, was amazed with everything it showed me, and then when I made the transition to shrooms, dmt, aya, lsd, hwbr, mescaline, I was perfectly at home there, since they were close enough to the Salvia experience.
MUCH more of a psychedelic than say, marijuana.
First time users who have been so superficial in their research to knot know anything about Salvia, those won't really be helped by a new forum structure. They're used to learn things the hard way anyway
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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Rose
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Universe]
#18773295 - 08/29/13 02:08 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Universe said: I smoked salvia and I saw walls breathing and patterns on the ceiling, so yes, it is a psychedelic.
Here's what I don't get - This forum considers marijuana to be a psychedelic, but talk of K2/Spice, which is synthetic marijuana is prohibited and perfectly civil threads get locked instantly. You just can't talk about it in this section.
Meanwhile, RC's that mimic other psychedelics are freely discussed with no moderator intervention. Does this make sense? If so, then how?
First, psychadelic does not mean it makes you hallucinate. Many things like exhaustion can cause hallucination.
Spice is a problem because most people don't have any clue what they are buying, and the recipe has changed frequently to avoid changes in laws. The most worrying thing is it is often packaged as potpouri and not for human consumption, which means one does not have to specify strength or quality. Some types of spice come with a higher risk than we'd like to deal with in here, and dosage advice is near impossible. It is unfortunate but there you have it.
The RC discussion we allow in here tends to be when people are trying to determine if what they have is LSD or not. There are occasionally other exceptions, that we may make on a case by case basis.
This is a high traffic forum and Mods are not omnipotent. It can take over 4 hours a day to catch up with every single new thread and post. That is not possible for every single mod to do on every single day. Some threads slip through the cracks. Use the notify Mod button and you will help us.
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KingKnowledge
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Quote:
JacksonMetaller said: I'm not for moving salvia to the ODD, but OP has a point that our logic is entirely inconsistent. 2c-b and ketamine belong on this forum by that logic
Moving salvia too ODD would be stupid though because dosage advice is more likely to be helpful than detrimental with this particular drug. Same with the ones I mentioned
Ketamine is NOT a psychedelic. Dissociatives do not provide the insight that psychedelics do. Same goes for PCP and Amantia.
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Rose
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See, welcome to the world that is this forum.
There is no simple black and white answer for why our list is the list it is.
The Staff frequently reevaluates our list and we do tweak it from time to time. We frequently ask for the forum's input when we consider making changes.
The main criterium is physical safety. I have listed several other reasons in my recent posts.
I love many of the posters in here. Let's be honest though. The average advice given in here can be quite bad. Do you know how many times I have seen someone ask for dosage advice for Pan Cyans and get advice for Cubes? At least there is no physical danger. With RC's such mistakes could be deadly.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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sonamdrukpa
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Quote:
KingKnowledge said: Dissociatives do not provide the insight that psychedelics do. Same goes for PCP and Amantia.
Never done dissociatives, I take it?
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Rose
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: sonamdrukpa]
#18773618 - 08/29/13 03:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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That is an ageless debate.
I think the truest psychedelics are in the ilk of psilocybin, mescaline, DMT and LSD. As they all work by the same tripping rules in spite of the differences in duration and effects.
Dissociatives are psychedelic enough for a case to be made but very few if any are safe enough for this forum. That is not to say they are unsafe, just not safe enough. Ketamine can kill an asthmatic, and does not mix well with many other substances. DXM has a very high probability for allergic reaction especially over repeated use.
Not dissociatives but MDA and MDMA are left off the list because of potential impurities which make dosage advice impractical. That and they are not psychadelic enough. LSD comes with the same risk, but nobody doubts it is a psychedelic so it stays. Fake LSD is getting problematic though. It would be a shame to drop LSD from the list because of bitter blotter taking over.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Nature Boy
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Rose]
#18774009 - 08/29/13 04:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said: Use the notify Mod button and you will help us.
What notify Mod button??? Where??? I've been a member since 2009 and have never noticed or stumbled upon it.
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.
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Rose
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Nature Boy]
#18774149 - 08/29/13 05:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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It is shaped like a whistle at the bottom of each post. Click the whistle on the offending post and describe the problem. We will look into it.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Nature Boy
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Rose]
#18774331 - 08/29/13 05:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Huh!!! How do you like that! Features I never before knew existed. Thanks...that'll save me some time. I've always directly PM'd mods because I had no knowledge of the more subtle features worked into this forum.
Thank you, sir!!
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.
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KingKnowledge
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: sonamdrukpa]
#18774353 - 08/29/13 05:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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sonamdrukpa said:
Quote:
KingKnowledge said: Dissociatives do not provide the insight that psychedelics do. Same goes for PCP and Amantia.
Never done dissociatives, I take it?
I have. And IME they do not compare to the landscape created by LSD and mushrooms.
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JacksonMetaller
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Quote:
KingKnowledge said:
Quote:
JacksonMetaller said: I'm not for moving salvia to the ODD, but OP has a point that our logic is entirely inconsistent. 2c-b and ketamine belong on this forum by that logic
Moving salvia too ODD would be stupid though because dosage advice is more likely to be helpful than detrimental with this particular drug. Same with the ones I mentioned
Ketamine is NOT a psychedelic. Dissociatives do not provide the insight that psychedelics do. Same goes for PCP and Amantia.
Um what? Ever k-holed? Please do so and tell me it's not a mind busting cosmic experience. Some on the odd even claim it goes much deeper than any trip on serotogenic psychedelic drugs
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JacksonMetaller
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Quote:
KingKnowledge said:
Quote:
sonamdrukpa said:
Quote:
KingKnowledge said: Dissociatives do not provide the insight that psychedelics do. Same goes for PCP and Amantia.
Never done dissociatives, I take it?
I have. And IME they do not compare to the landscape created by LSD and mushrooms.
Take more. Dissociatives are "I feel drunk. I feel really drunk. Holy shit I've got the spins. I'm way too fucked up this isn't fun." Then an hour later "Dafuq... I went from being to drunk to my mom is a caterpillar and I'm riding her back through extra dimensional space doing drugs but now I've discovered the true meaning of love in this space."
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Delarge
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psychedelics teach me about modern life, and living in this world with everyone else.
the other hallucinogens take me to outerspace/void/chaos where i learn about non-complex ancient life, and i will sometimes stumble upon artifacts of consciousness and a sense of infinite potential of the shadow world.
-------------------- I will wipe from the earth man whom I have created. Man and Beast, crawling creature and bird of the air as well. For I regret that I made them.
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Rose
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Delarge]
#18774536 - 08/29/13 06:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I meant to reply to JM.
Doesn't make K a psychedelic.
Hallucination is common in many non psychedelic substances. So is getting your mind fucked.
The word psychedelic is confusing because it is commonly used as a synonym for hallucinogen.
All bourbon is whiskey but not all whiskey is bourbon. Ya' know?
The term psychadelic distinguishes from deriliants and dissociatives, which are also hallucinogens. That is not a big deal for most people but on a forum such as this, the point is often important enough to make.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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JacksonMetaller
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Re: Request to move salvia to ODD [Re: Rose]
#18774648 - 08/29/13 07:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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No I know what psychedelic means. Along the lines of "mind-manifesting" and many dissociative fanatics will argue that hole experiences are equally if not more psychedelic than the classics. Talk to Wiccan or Tymoteus. Their descriptions of the hole are intensely spiritual.
Anyways I'm not really making the argument that we should allow them. You and me have been over this and I understand your view. What I was saying is that I agree with the OP based on the Mods logic that salvia shouldn't be here (though I PERDONALLY disagree) by pointing out the inconsistancies in our decision to include salvia and not ketamine
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Rose
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Frankly, it may pass the test when we look again.
I dare say it is close to the top of the list if we ever add anything.
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KingKnowledge
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Quote:
JacksonMetaller said: No I know what psychedelic means. Along the lines of "mind-manifesting" and many dissociative fanatics will argue that hole experiences are equally if not more psychedelic than the classics. Talk to Wiccan or Tymoteus. Their descriptions of the hole are intensely spiritual.
Anyways I'm not really making the argument that we should allow them. You and me have been over this and I understand your view. What I was saying is that I agree with the OP based on the Mods logic that salvia shouldn't be here (though I PERDONALLY disagree) by pointing out the inconsistancies in our decision to include salvia and not ketamine
Everyone has their own opinions, of course. As we see by the very nature of this topic I find dissociatives not as deep as LSD/Shrooms, but thats jsut me.
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