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Offlinegleipnir
That Guy


Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 23
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Need some help with a monotub.
    #18763350 - 08/27/13 10:59 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Howdy, thanks for clicking my thread.

I have done quite a bit of research before moving from pf tek to monotubs. I currently have 2 tubs in fruiting one has a very nice pin set the other no pin set at all. I have tried both pinning strategies I found on these forums, but  before I continue let me give out some information about the tubs.

-Each tub is a small 20Qt clear container with a modified top.
-I used 1 3lb rye berry spawn bag per monotub. (1 Albino A+ & 1 GT)
-The Albino A+ is from a multispore syringe, the GT is from a live culture i took my first grow.
-I used the 5050 coir verm tek and the substrate is 3 inches deep in both tubs.
-Both tubs are 100% colonized and sat 2 weeks before fruiting conditions were applied.

*If i failed to add anything important in the above information please let me know.

Now for some pictures, because as they say a picture is worth a thousand words:

Tub 1: Albino A+ (Multispore)



Tub 2: Golden Teacher (Live culture)





So I need help understanding why my 2nd tub refuses to pin after 2 weeks of trying to trigger it. It has no odd smell other than that healthy mycelium smell. I lightly mist and manually fan for 5 mins twice daily. I just find it odd, and I'm stuck... So I'm reaching out to the best community for some help and insight.

If you want to see the grow (my first) the 2nd tub live culture was taken from here is a pic,



Thanks for any help at all :smile:


--------------------
Didi: Stu, what are you doing?
Stu: Making ayahuasca.
Didi: It’s four o’clock in the morning, why on earth are you making ayahuasca?
Stu: …Because I’ve lost control of my life.


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
The Inquisition
Male


Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Need some help with a monotub. [Re: gleipnir]
    #18763356 - 08/27/13 11:02 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Tub 2 is contam'd, badly with bacteria.

Tub one is looking like he needs higher RH and more FAE.

How many holes are on there?  Do you have holes at sub level and higher up?

You should stuff the bottom holes very tightly and leave the top very loose.

Run a fan.

Here is my write up, my sig below has many more about monos, it's kind of my specialty :wink:


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


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Offlineghostinthemist
off in the distance i stand
Male User Gallery


Registered: 08/01/13
Posts: 299
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Need some help with a monotub. [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18763385 - 08/27/13 11:11 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I agree with the above. The shinny  substance on the myce looks to be a bad bacteria contam.  Were you opening this mono prior to full colonization?  I believe and many others that exposing raw, uncolonized substrate will lead to contam.  It is clearly not fully colonized in #2 and would have most likely not pinned till it took over the substrate.


--------------------
When all seems lost it has been neglected for too long to be found


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Offlinegleipnir
That Guy


Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 23
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Need some help with a monotub. [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18763397 - 08/27/13 11:15 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I thought it might be bacterial, but i found it odd it had no smell at all and I have been blotting up all water droplets that haven't evaporated after 20min. I have a small fan a step or two back from the tubs so that might be why. I know everyone asks, but is there anyway to save that tub? Maybe a salt paste?

I have 2 holes up top stuffed with polyfill and 2 down low on the side stuffed with polyfill. Also put a few tiny shotgun style holes lightly above the substrate layer.

I have been waiting to mist tub one for a few days till I'm positive my pin set is done, so it might be low humidity.

Damn, well one tub out of 2 my second grow isn't so bad. I tried my damndest, but hey you cant win em' all. Any tips on how to avoid this in the future?

Thanks for the help :smile:

---------------------------------------

@Ghost tub 1 started to pin on it's own. I never opened the tubs once until tub 1 showed 4 pins and i moved it to fruiting area. Tub 2 was as white as in my picture so I moved it to the fruiting area with tub 1. I know peaking can cause contams in tubs, as it can cause contams in pf tek as well.


--------------------
Didi: Stu, what are you doing?
Stu: Making ayahuasca.
Didi: It’s four o’clock in the morning, why on earth are you making ayahuasca?
Stu: …Because I’ve lost control of my life.


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
The Inquisition
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Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Need some help with a monotub. [Re: gleipnir]
    #18763419 - 08/27/13 11:21 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ghostinthemist said:
I believe and many others that exposing raw, uncolonized substrate will lead to contam.




Bullshit :whack:

The reason it is not colonized is because bacteria has taken over those areas, and the thicky cottony mycelial growth around it shows it has been fighting it, most likely since day one.

Bulk substrate does not contam when you expose it to open air prior to full colonization. You can peak at it every day if you like. I have done so on many occasions.

You already expose the substrate to open air when you spawn to bulk.

If what you say is true than everyone would need to spawn to bulk under aseptic conditions, which they clearly do not.

Contams in a mono occur because the spawn is dirty, the substrate is too wet/dry, or the pasteurization failed.

Or a combo of all of those.

Quote:

gleipnir said:
I know everyone asks, but is there anyway to save that tub?





Don't listen to ghostinthemist, he knows not what he speaks. Peaking does not cause contams.

That tub is toast. Toss it outside.

In the future, pasteurize your substrate properly, avoid additives except for verm and gypsum, and smell every spawn jar before you dump it in the tub.

Build a proper monotub.

Hydrate your grains before spawing to bulk.

Dial in your monotubs after full colonization.

Enjoy some badass success.



Please feel free to PM me any questions :thumbup:


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


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Offlineghostinthemist
off in the distance i stand
Male User Gallery


Registered: 08/01/13
Posts: 299
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Need some help with a monotub. [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18763438 - 08/27/13 11:24 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Disagree but you have your opinion and i have mine.  Show me one thread where RR states that opening a uncolonized substrate of any kind is a good idea.


--------------------
When all seems lost it has been neglected for too long to be found


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
The Inquisition
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Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Need some help with a monotub. [Re: ghostinthemist]
    #18763460 - 08/27/13 11:27 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

:hahthatscute:

No one said it's a "good" idea.

But I can find you a million threads where RR explicitly states that a properly pasteurized substrate and clean grain spawn will not contam before the first flush.

When you spawn in open air, you are mixing in tons of mold spores and bacteria.

Peaking will not add any more risk than that act does.

This should be obvious if you can put two and two together.

I can tell you from 200 different tubs, probably more, that peaking will not cause contams with properly pasteurized substrate and clean grain spawn. And that is me, personally.


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


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OfflinePussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire
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Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Need some help with a monotub. [Re: ghostinthemist]
    #18763462 - 08/27/13 11:27 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Frank, it's useless.

He has the mentality of a 12 year old, and cannot comprehend the fact that pasteurized bulk substrate material is contam resistant.

I have tried explaining this to him several times.

As of right now, dustinthewind has made it to my ignore list.


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Offlinegleipnir
That Guy


Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 23
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Need some help with a monotub. [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18763467 - 08/27/13 11:28 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks man here is a better pic of that back end of tub 2:



I think some of the sheen was because i took those photos after just misting it, but hell better safe than sorry. Going to take it outside and just see what it does, you know... for science!


--------------------
Didi: Stu, what are you doing?
Stu: Making ayahuasca.
Didi: It’s four o’clock in the morning, why on earth are you making ayahuasca?
Stu: …Because I’ve lost control of my life.


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Invisibleb plus

Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 928
Re: Need some help with a monotub. [Re: ghostinthemist]
    #18763480 - 08/27/13 11:30 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Ghost, of course it's not recommended to open a colonizing mono. Frank was just explaining that it would'nt necessarily lead to bacterial contamination because the substrate's already been exposed during initial spawn. Sure the air we breath is contamed, but a pasturized substrate spawned at a high enough ratio leaves little room for contaminates to establish themselves.

BTW- Nice work op, that's a beautiful ms pinset on the AA+.



--------------------
:mushroom2:-Reishi Grow-:mushroom2:
:mushroom2:-Grey Oyster Grow-:mushroom2:


Edited by b plus (08/27/13 11:34 AM)


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
The Inquisition
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Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Need some help with a monotub. [Re: gleipnir]
    #18763490 - 08/27/13 11:33 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

gleipnir said:
Thanks man here is a better pic of that back end of tub 2:



I think some of the sheen was because i took those photos after just misting it, but hell better safe than sorry.




The mycelium itself looks wrong, it is reacting to bacteria and (I would bet) a hot substrate.  I've seen this personally many times.

Explain your grain prep, inoculation procedures and substrate prep.

Maybe I can point out where you went wrong?


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


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Offlinevaneazy
Stranger

Registered: 09/20/12
Posts: 332
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Need some help with a monotub. [Re: gleipnir]
    #18763515 - 08/27/13 11:40 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

i had a smaller (maybe 20 qt) tub i made a while back that i purposely put contammed WBS jars in just to see what would happen and it looked exactly like that haha i let it go for like a month just to get fully colonized then put it in fruiting conditions and nothing ever happened (idk why but i thought SOME fruits would still pop up) Obviously was in a completely different part of the house but it looked so gross compared to healthy myc. but anyways yeah thats unfortunately a super contam


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OfflineMush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
Posts: 4,419
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: Need some help with a monotub. [Re: gleipnir]
    #18763532 - 08/27/13 11:44 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, I'd love to see a picture of the jars that he mixed into that tub.  I can't imagine they looked too good.


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Offlinegleipnir
That Guy


Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 23
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Need some help with a monotub. [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18763543 - 08/27/13 11:47 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Might have been heat, I might have been a little to fudged (tired) when i mixed my spawn and substrate. Ok here we go:

I took my rye and put it in jars, filled it with water and did that song and dance to let contams get a foot hold before sterilization. Put the buggers in bags and put it in my pc for 90mins, used self healing injection points if that matters. I know the room i used was sterilized as none of my 2 bags contamed. For my live culture i opened my bag and dropped it in and just sealed it up with a hot glue gun.

After both bags were 100% white i went and did dameon5050 (sorry if i spelled the name wrong I'm high) coir and verm tek. I got a bucket boiled my water and let it sit for 4 hours. I then checked on it hourly to see if tyhe temp was at least 90 degrees as I work late nights (paramedic) and was running low on time. When the substrate was at 90 i checked for field capacity and i had no extra water running down. Actually now that i think about it the substrate might have been a little over 90 making it way to damn hot.

Anyways i then put the substrate in each tub and mixed the spawn in each tub. The depth of each substrate was 3 inches as that's where i had marked the side of each tub. I taped the buggers up and put them above my fridge in a compartment.

Waited until tub 1 had 5 pins visible, so i moved it to my fruiting area. Tub 2 was about 85% white so i waited another 2 weeks. It was now like in the picture, but had some metabolites pools on it, this stained most of the mycelium in the back(nasty) looking side. I left the metabolites alone as i know antibiotics are made from them and put it in fruiting conditions. 2 weeks later here i am!


--------------------
Didi: Stu, what are you doing?
Stu: Making ayahuasca.
Didi: It’s four o’clock in the morning, why on earth are you making ayahuasca?
Stu: …Because I’ve lost control of my life.


Edited by gleipnir (08/27/13 11:55 AM)


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Offlinegleipnir
That Guy


Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 23
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Need some help with a monotub. [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #18763566 - 08/27/13 11:53 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Yeah, I'd love to see a picture of the jars that he mixed into that tub.  I can't imagine they looked too good.




Way to be a jerk, this is my second grow period. I tried my best, but i guess novices can't make mistakes without being ridiculed aye? Also it was spawn bags if you had read my post, first time at that too.

Should have done jars instead as my pf tek ones turned out a-ok.







--------------------
Didi: Stu, what are you doing?
Stu: Making ayahuasca.
Didi: It’s four o’clock in the morning, why on earth are you making ayahuasca?
Stu: …Because I’ve lost control of my life.


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
The Inquisition
Male


Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Need some help with a monotub. [Re: gleipnir]
    #18763574 - 08/27/13 11:55 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I don't think he was intending any offense...bacteria laden spawn can look pretty gross :eek:

Give me a bit and I'll go over your procedures and what I recommend. I've got a few things to get done first.


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


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OfflineMush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
Posts: 4,419
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: Need some help with a monotub. [Re: gleipnir]
    #18763586 - 08/27/13 11:58 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Not trying to be a jerk at all :shrug:.  Sorry you felt that way.  Using such large bags means you have to cook them longer to get the insides to temp, not sure if you took that into account?

Just trying help here.


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Offlinegleipnir
That Guy


Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 23
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Need some help with a monotub. [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #18763598 - 08/27/13 12:01 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Not trying to be a jerk at all :shrug:.  Sorry you felt that way.  Using such large bags means you have to cook them longer to get the insides to temp, not sure if you took that into account?

Just trying help here.





I apologize for my out burst, I'm on a small sample of my albino A+ and i take things a wee bit too personal when I'm on Psilocybin, my wife says i can be like a pmsing girl when i take mushrooms. So again sorry for the misunderstanding.


--------------------
Didi: Stu, what are you doing?
Stu: Making ayahuasca.
Didi: It’s four o’clock in the morning, why on earth are you making ayahuasca?
Stu: …Because I’ve lost control of my life.


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OfflineMush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
Posts: 4,419
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: Need some help with a monotub. [Re: gleipnir]
    #18763603 - 08/27/13 12:03 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Did you eat them fresh? :crazy2:


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Offlinegleipnir
That Guy


Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 23
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Need some help with a monotub. [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #18763610 - 08/27/13 12:05 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I ate roughly 3 right from the tub. I have heard of bunk tubs before and wanted to make sure these have some potency. They indeed do...


Not to upset if one tub goes under. I'm trying to learn how to do rye monotubs so I can do a continuous personal only grow and learn to isolate traits. I grow some mean cannabis, but I'm really intrigued by cubes and fungi in general. So in all reality this was a test run before my actual grow. Hence the small tubs and huge mistakes.



--------------------
Didi: Stu, what are you doing?
Stu: Making ayahuasca.
Didi: It’s four o’clock in the morning, why on earth are you making ayahuasca?
Stu: …Because I’ve lost control of my life.


Edited by gleipnir (08/27/13 12:12 PM)


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