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Offlinelolwut
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Human relationships and friendships
    #18761623 - 08/26/13 09:50 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I have recently considered the idea that a main reason for human relationships is heavily based upon getting something out of the other person - whether it's company, sexual feelings, ego reinforcement, empathy, the experience of a close emotional connection, feeling liked, feeling good about oneself because you're making someone else happy in the dynamic, a way out of boredom, a way to go out and do something with someone, etc etc.

Basically most human interactions seem to be self-serving and brain-chemistry based. Love, friendships, relationships, etc are all just a way of saying you get a chemical rush from someone/something which imo makes them indistinguishable from taking a hit of your favorite drug.

Note: This doesn't mean I don't recognise the feelings of a good friendship or a good relationship and that I don't value these things. I mean by this post that on a "base" or "hardware" level these are the chemical processes related to these emergent feelings.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Human relationships and friendships [Re: lolwut]
    #18761628 - 08/26/13 09:51 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

What about trust?


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rahz

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"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Offlinelolwut
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Re: Human relationships and friendships [Re: Rahz]
    #18761638 - 08/26/13 09:53 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I see trust as an educated guess based off experience that the other person has your interests in mind in the sense that they value you and your contribution to their life more than they value the experience of ripping you off or selling you out. I trust several people, some from here.


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Human relationships and friendships [Re: lolwut] * 2
    #18761819 - 08/26/13 10:36 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

came across this article today

Quote:

..."The correlation between self and friend was remarkably similar,” Coan said. “The finding shows the brain’s remarkable capacity to model self to others; that people close to us become a part of ourselves, and that is not just metaphor or poetry, it’s very real. Literally we are under threat when a friend is under threat. But not so when a stranger is under threat.”

Coan said this likely is because humans need to have friends and allies who they can side with and see as being the same as themselves. And as people spend more time together, they become more similar.

“It’s essentially a breakdown of self and other; our self comes to include the people we become close to,” Coan said. “If a friend is under threat, it becomes the same as if we ourselves are under threat. We can understand the pain or difficulty they may be going through in the same way we understand our own pain.”

This likely is the source of empathy, and part of the evolutionary process, Coan reasons.

“A threat to ourselves is a threat to our resources,” he said. “Threats can take things away from us. But when we develop friendships, people we can trust and rely on who in essence become we, then our resources are expanded, we gain. Your goal becomes my goal. It’s a part of our survivability.”

People need friends, Coan added, like “one hand needs another to clap.”




http://news.virginia.edu/content/human-brains-are-hardwired-empathy-friendship-study-shows

not sure how or if this relates to your post, still trying to figure that out


Edited by Hobozen (08/26/13 10:37 PM)


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InvisibleMegatrondon
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Re: Human relationships and friendships [Re: Hobozen]
    #18761856 - 08/26/13 10:45 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

yea i thought the same thing OP. i tapped into that also. but hey its only human to use each other as stepping stones. i finally accept  the fact i only want a girl friend for sex and company. i did a little test i went one month not talking to any one i know. turns out i like being solo. just me my thoughts and my dog that keeps me happy.no offense but when i see young couple walking around holding hands i kinda just laugh on the inside and say to my self what a pussy hahah. but that does not mean i would not be a complete gentlemen. but when it comes down to the facts women are to please the man, serve him in all his needs. end to story. that's how i see it . i hear girls from India do it best and they treat there men good. hope i find one some day.


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Human relationships and friendships [Re: lolwut]
    #18761867 - 08/26/13 10:48 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Everything about the human experience is relative imo.
When its convenient for us, we are everybody's friend.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Human relationships and friendships [Re: cez] * 1
    #18761957 - 08/26/13 11:10 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, this has been my position for years.  It's basically how we are built and without that we would not survive.  So lets just acknowledge it and move on to the living it.  I think we can manage it without doing others harm if our hearts and minds are in the right place.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Human relationships and friendships [Re: lolwut]
    #18762016 - 08/26/13 11:29 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

lolwut said:
I have recently considered the idea that a main reason for human relationships is heavily based upon getting something out of the other person...




Trying to wrap my head around this, maybe I'm just stoned, but where is this reason?  Where and when does it exist and come into play?  Is there less of this reason when in childhood years, engulfed in play?  Is it then more about us, and result of shared experience, rather than the individual self?


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Offlinelolwut
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Re: Human relationships and friendships [Re: Hobozen]
    #18762036 - 08/26/13 11:33 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Well one of the main underlying ideas I had that spawned this new idea was this which I heard about a few years ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Selfish_Gene, and basically the idea that people will avert painful situations and move towards pleasurable situations. It follows that if someone or something makes someone feels good they will try to attain it in some way.

In childhood it is apparent in that no one wants to play with the weird kid who is covered in dirt/dirty clothes who makes them look like a loser, or the kid who doesn't talk about anything else than bugs, etc. They want to play with the fun/popular kid.

I think it's a biological thing to do with the individual more than the group.


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Human relationships and friendships [Re: lolwut]
    #18762180 - 08/27/13 12:33 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

When I think about my closest relationship to another human, my brother, I ask myself, what is the reason for my relationship with him?  What is the reason for the relationship?  It stumps me as I cannot point to anything.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Human relationships and friendships [Re: Hobozen]
    #18762440 - 08/27/13 03:09 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Better think a little harder then.  It's not rocket science imo.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Human relationships and friendships [Re: Icelander]
    #18762466 - 08/27/13 03:25 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

If a relationship didn't benefit me, it would have no significant meaning and thus wouldn't be able to thrive.  That's my understanding of what's being said here, correct me if I'm wrong.  I'm probably just getting caught up in semantics.


Edited by Hobozen (08/27/13 04:20 AM)


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Human relationships and friendships [Re: lolwut]
    #18762666 - 08/27/13 06:28 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

who knows why ppl do things & why reduce it a single reason?


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Human relationships and friendships [Re: Hobozen] * 1
    #18762722 - 08/27/13 07:05 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blankk said:
When I think about my closest relationship to another human, my brother, I ask myself, what is the reason for my relationship with him?  What is the reason for the relationship?  It stumps me as I cannot point to anything.




Perhaps knowing your brother all your life its hard to see. But in theory your brother is part of you just like you posted above, his existence gives you meaning not only in the idea of him being out there and being family - something which will outlive you.
But actually sharing so many of your experiences you have overlapping memories and thought processes, to some degree you're the same person. Like during a great night of sex where you completely lock in with what the other person is feeling and move as one, or in music when the same happens.

Personally I'm not all for the idea that all our empathy is Pavlovian, but its a convincing argument. Certainly something to think about


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Human relationships and friendships [Re: quinn]
    #18762726 - 08/27/13 07:08 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
who knows why ppl do things & why reduce it a single reason?




You don't have to, it might seem like it reduces the poetry in life but I've found otherwise. Personally I want to get to the bottom of existence if I can, knowledge has enriched my experiences and there's always that drive in the back somewhere that there might be an answer.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Human relationships and friendships [Re: Hobozen]
    #18762752 - 08/27/13 07:25 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blankk said:
If a relationship didn't benefit me, it would have no significant meaning and thus wouldn't be able to thrive.  That's my understanding of what's being said here, correct me if I'm wrong.  I'm probably just getting caught up in semantics.




That's correct.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Human relationships and friendships [Re: Repertoire89] * 1
    #18762782 - 08/27/13 07:38 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

sure... i guess in my 'search' i have encountered different worldviews that have seemed equally viable or useful and so at the moment i feel that picking one would be reductive or narrow...

in reference to the OP it seems a fairly simple opposition of 'relationships are fundamentally selfish' to 'relationships are fundamentally selfless'.. arguments go!

seems uninteresting to me.. there will always be elements of both.. relationships/people are comprised of many different things which themselves can have many different spins put on them :shrug2:


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Edited by quinn (08/27/13 07:47 AM)


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Human relationships and friendships [Re: quinn]
    #18762804 - 08/27/13 07:48 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I haven't picked one either, but its a thought provoking subject. Inclined to agree with OP at the moment


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Human relationships and friendships [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18762821 - 08/27/13 07:56 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

op is not actually saying much looking over. people seek pleasure & avoid pain in what they do..

as far as what human relationships are not much seems to be said beyond that


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Human relationships and friendships [Re: quinn]
    #18762829 - 08/27/13 07:59 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Well he didn't mention Pavlov, there are books written on the subject.

From my perspective it appears to be true, we just find ourselves here and are in it for number one. That doesn't make life less poetic to me, maybe more


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