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lolwut
bad motherfucker


Registered: 08/14/10
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Philosophical content of Heroin?
#18761382 - 08/26/13 08:54 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Just wondering what the deal is with heroin and philosophical content. My drug use in the past (practically everything except opiates) have led me to many insights and ideas and realizations about life and myself etc.
In music I have heard many songs about it, many songs written from the perspective of a (musically talented) addict and am wondering if anyone here who has had experience with the drug has anything to say about it.
-------------------- Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth, and taste...
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handwaveee
Stranger
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: lolwut]
#18761562 - 08/26/13 09:37 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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The first time I got really high on opiates (pills) I was listening to some pop music and I really fellllllt the singer lol. That's just my happy opiate moment. I may have been influenced by people who actually shoot up cos their happy moment is where "anything is possible."
Recently I've been on some opiates (I don't fuck around cos I'm off now, went through a shitty withdrawal) and I just loved to nod off, being in my own world, feeling my own feelings. At first I would be like, damn it's 10pm and I"m off on a fucking race track. Then I'm off. It's a selfish drug. I listen to music. I nod a bit.
It all flows in a dream state. Catch whatever you can, if you can.
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handwaveee
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: handwaveee]
#18761572 - 08/26/13 09:39 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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no. really you are just fucking high on opiates. It's the shit!
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: handwaveee] 3
#18762197 - 08/27/13 12:42 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I've had the (mis)fortune of having become deeply acquainted with heroin in the past. All I will say is that any experience that is so significant in making an impact upon one's psyche, brain and body will lead to a new, or at least a changed, perspective on life. As far as specifics, the following gentlemen say it better than I could, and probably in fewer words:
(specifically about opiates:)
Opium teaches only one thing, which is that aside from physical suffering, there is nothing real. --Andre Malraux
A man who has once experienced the drug-life finds it difficult to put up with the inanity of normal existence. He has become wise with the wisdom of despair. --Aleister Crowley
Who lives longer? the man who takes heroin for two years and dies, or a man who lives on roast beef, water and potatoes 'till 95? One passes his 24 months in eternity. All the years of the beefeater are lived only in time. --Aldous Huxley
It is difficult to live without opium after having known it because it is difficult, after knowing opium, to take earth seriously. And unless one is a saint, it is difficult to live without taking earth seriously. --Jean Cocteau
(about pleasure in general:)
If suffering brings wisdom, I would wish to be less wise. --William Butler Yeats
Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it. --Thomas Jefferson
Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure. --Scott Adams
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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The Phleg
Big Dick Chakra



Registered: 03/07/10
Posts: 14,473
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: deCypher]
#18762205 - 08/27/13 12:49 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Interesting.
-------------------- You wanna get high? Drink tap water. --------------------
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Hobozen


Registered: 11/03/11
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: deCypher]
#18762268 - 08/27/13 01:27 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it. --Thomas Jefferson
awesome
i miss the days of binging on psychs, and will never again feel that alive, or at least that is how it feels.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: deCypher]
#18762428 - 08/27/13 03:04 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Those are some powerful quotes and I can relate to some of them even though I am not a opiate addict.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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kakashi68
Connoiseur of Illicit Substances


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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Icelander]
#18762613 - 08/27/13 05:39 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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dude its heroin, its pretty much supposed to take away all thoughts and philosophy. You just sit there in bliss, nothing else matters but experiencing the ultimate pleasure.
-------------------- You know, just sometimes in between the first cigarette with coffee in the morning to that 400th glass of cornershop piss at 3am--you do sometimes look at yourself and think--this is fantastic. I'm in heaven. -Bernard Black
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Memories



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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: lolwut]
#18763732 - 08/27/13 12:36 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Nodding out after a shot isn't a very philosophical experience for me. It is an escape from the pain brought on by thinking.
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Astrodelic
Cosmological Philosopher


Registered: 08/16/13
Posts: 89
Loc: The Woods
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Memories]
#18763784 - 08/27/13 12:49 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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opium is more philosophical that heroin in my observational opinion.
I don't think it's much of a deep philosophical drug though...as stated it's more of a dreamstate...you may gain some insight but it's not comparable to psychedelics...it is poetic though. Some of my best, most like poetry came from when I was experimenting with opiates (never heroin specifically, I was already having enough problems with what I was doing).
I don't think the class of drugs is worth messing with. The problems outweigh any, negligable at best, benefits.
--------------------
My Journal “Television is by nature the dominator drug par excellence. Control of content, uniformity of content, repeatability of content make it inevitably a tool of coersion, brainwashing, and manipulation.”-Mckenna Everything I say is part of a roll playing fantasy and should be considered a lie. Engaging in illegal activity is dangerous.
Edited by Astrodelic (08/27/13 01:12 PM)
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Sse
Saṃsāra

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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: lolwut]
#18763852 - 08/27/13 01:04 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Death and impermanence
an ex friend of mine just died after about 10 years of opiate use, started with vicoden in his early teens, then morophine, oxy, roxy, then heroin for a year or two. Right around the beginning of his heroin use that's when he became a totally different person. I didn't find out until he had betrayed me in about every way possible. After that I cut all ties with that group of people. Now he's dead, O.D'd a month or two ago... he used to be a really good friend. Sad what that shit does to people. I literally have no friends due to strong opiates.

Damn, into my life you came and changed my world around We built a house on trust I turn around and see you burn it down I'm learnin' now not to put my heart on my sleeve I can't believe, the web you weave, why don't you leave? You just deceive, don't you see how shockin' that get? We was best friends, now people say you talkin' that shhh I had your back and never did I lack respect for you as a friend Now I'm all alone and back on my own and you blowin' in the wind
Edited by Sse (08/27/13 01:12 PM)
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Astrodelic
Cosmological Philosopher


Registered: 08/16/13
Posts: 89
Loc: The Woods
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Sse]
#18764038 - 08/27/13 01:53 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sse said: Death and impermanence
Right around the beginning of his heroin use that's when he became a totally different person. I didn't find out until he had betrayed me in about every way possible. After that I cut all ties with that group of people. Now he's dead, O.D'd a month or two ago... he used to be a really good friend. Sad what that shit does to people. I literally have no friends due to strong opiates.
this is an all too common story. I don't know anyone whose personality doesn't tremendously change when they start doing a lot of opiates.
The drugs take over your nervous system and it becomes incredibly difficult to fight the growing voice in your mind that is only concerned with feeling good. It's a disgusting self perpetuating cycle. I would, again, strongly advise against heavy or continued opiate use.
--------------------
My Journal “Television is by nature the dominator drug par excellence. Control of content, uniformity of content, repeatability of content make it inevitably a tool of coersion, brainwashing, and manipulation.”-Mckenna Everything I say is part of a roll playing fantasy and should be considered a lie. Engaging in illegal activity is dangerous.
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hTx
(:



Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Astrodelic]
#18765821 - 08/27/13 08:47 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Aleister Crowley was addicted to heroin...He had some interesting stuff and was very much for personal freedom.
"“Every one interprets everything in terms of his own experience. If you say anything which does not touch a precisely similar spot in another man's brain, he either misunderstands you, or doesn't understand you at all.” ― Aleister Crowley, Diary of a Drug Fiend
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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dustinthewind13
Fool



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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: deCypher]
#18765953 - 08/27/13 09:10 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: It is difficult to live without opium after having known it because it is difficult, after knowing opium, to take earth seriously. And unless one is a saint, it is difficult to live without taking earth seriously. --Jean Cocteau
Awesome quotes. Especially this one, since I was looking for it not too long ago. Spent quite a bit trying to find it. I think i originally saw it on erowid but couldn't remember the right combination of words. Thanks.
-------------------- "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "A room without books is like a body without a soul." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson
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Cyclohexylamine
Turn on, Tune in, Drop out



Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 14,327
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Memories]
#18766120 - 08/27/13 09:37 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Memories said: Nodding out after a shot isn't a very philosophical experience for me. It is an escape from the pain brought on by thinking.
Yeah when I am nodding the last thing I am doing is thinking. I am more just nodding. And seeing strange stuff.
Oddly heroin and other opiates are not THAT appealing to me - I enjoy nodding occasionally but I much prefer the bliss from benzos. But that's another story.
--------------------
You are not special
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Memories



Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 10,484
Loc: Suwannee River
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That's why you mix the two.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Memories]
#18769695 - 08/28/13 06:12 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Memories said: That's why you mix the two. 
The best way to philosophically face your death anxiety.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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r72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.




Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 1,327
Loc: Chicago
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: deCypher]
#18770429 - 08/28/13 08:39 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm not sure about heroin, but I've had some insights on Opiates way back in the day. Mostly that, I'm seeking pleasure, and we're all seeking pleasure be it in one way or another. I heard it a million times before hand, but feeling it to the bone... that's a different story. 
By the way, awesome avatar. I love King Crimson.
-------------------- Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses
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Midnight_Toker
Gone Fishin'


Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 11,589
Loc: Canada
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: lolwut]
#18770445 - 08/28/13 08:40 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Opiates make me depressed and depression makes me philosophical.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: lolwut]
#18770532 - 08/28/13 09:00 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
lolwut said: Just wondering what the deal is with heroin and philosophical content. My drug use in the past (practically everything except opiates) have led me to many insights and ideas and realizations about life and myself etc.
In music I have heard many songs about it, many songs written from the perspective of a (musically talented) addict and am wondering if anyone here who has had experience with the drug has anything to say about it.
I have zero experience with it. I hate guns and I hate roses and their thorns and their diseases. But this song is pretty cool. That's what I have to say.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: r72rock]
#18770706 - 08/28/13 09:31 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
lolwut said: Just wondering what the deal is with heroin and philosophical content. My drug use in the past (practically everything except opiates) have led me to many insights and ideas and realizations about life and myself etc.
In music I have heard many songs about it, many songs written from the perspective of a (musically talented) addict and am wondering if anyone here who has had experience with the drug has anything to say about it.
I have zero experience with it. I hate guns and I hate roses and their thorns and their diseases. But this song is pretty cool. That's what I have to say.
Eh, GnR is an excellent band at times but I would have pegged you for a VU man.
Quote:
r72rock said: I'm not sure about heroin, but I've had some insights on Opiates way back in the day. Mostly that, I'm seeking pleasure, and we're all seeking pleasure be it in one way or another.

Can you think of any human behavior or activity that is not, fundamentally, motivated around acquiring pleasure (short-term or long-term)?
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: deCypher]
#18770835 - 08/28/13 09:51 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
lolwut said: Just wondering what the deal is with heroin and philosophical content. My drug use in the past (practically everything except opiates) have led me to many insights and ideas and realizations about life and myself etc.
In music I have heard many songs about it, many songs written from the perspective of a (musically talented) addict and am wondering if anyone here who has had experience with the drug has anything to say about it.
I have zero experience with it. I hate guns and I hate roses and their thorns and their diseases. But this song is pretty cool. That's what I have to say.
Eh, GnR is an excellent band at times but I would have pegged you for a VU man.
You would have pegged me?
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: r72rock]
#18771222 - 08/28/13 11:24 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
r72rock said: I'm not sure about heroin, but I've had some insights on Opiates way back in the day. Mostly that, I'm seeking pleasure, and we're all seeking pleasure be it in one way or another. I heard it a million times before hand, but feeling it to the bone... that's a different story. 
By the way, awesome avatar. I love King Crimson. 
In 1971 on my first acid trip that's the LP we played.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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lolwut
bad motherfucker


Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 2,782
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: r72rock]
#18771252 - 08/28/13 11:32 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
r72rock said: I'm not sure about heroin, but I've had some insights on Opiates way back in the day. Mostly that, I'm seeking pleasure, and we're all seeking pleasure be it in one way or another. I heard it a million times before hand, but feeling it to the bone... that's a different story. 
By the way, awesome avatar. I love King Crimson. 
My Dad and Icelander both recommended it to me within a day or so's time ( ), and I knew 21st Century Schizoid Man from a "Top 100 Guitar Solos" mix I've got already so I paid it a listen and was pretty impressed
-------------------- Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth, and taste...
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r72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.




Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 1,327
Loc: Chicago
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: lolwut]
#18775374 - 08/29/13 10:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: Can you think of any human behavior or activity that is not, fundamentally, motivated around acquiring pleasure (short-term or long-term)?
Nah, I personally can't. That's what Opium was showing me, hahah.
Quote:
lolwut said: My Dad and Icelander both recommended it to me within a day or so's time ( ), and I knew 21st Century Schizoid Man from a "Top 100 Guitar Solos" mix I've got already so I paid it a listen and was pretty impressed
Couldn't recommend it enough either. It's a fantastic album. Robert Fripp does some next level shit when it comes to music composition.
-------------------- Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses
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Astrodelic
Cosmological Philosopher


Registered: 08/16/13
Posts: 89
Loc: The Woods
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: deCypher]
#18775469 - 08/29/13 10:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Can you think of any human behavior or activity that is not, fundamentally, motivated around acquiring pleasure (short-term or long-term)?
cops scraping dead kids off the highway after a drunk collision.
Calling a new widow to give her the news about her husband who just died in Iraq.
Putting down dogs at the pound because there isn't a home for them.
Being cordial with people you don't like.
When you were a kid, going to school and having to deal with being picked on.
Being nice to an ex when you run into him/her at random while they're with their new love.
I can continue?
--------------------
My Journal “Television is by nature the dominator drug par excellence. Control of content, uniformity of content, repeatability of content make it inevitably a tool of coersion, brainwashing, and manipulation.”-Mckenna Everything I say is part of a roll playing fantasy and should be considered a lie. Engaging in illegal activity is dangerous.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Astrodelic]
#18776269 - 08/30/13 07:00 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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All those things can be termed pleasure seeking on some level.
For instance if you don't scrape up the bodies they look ugly and stink. It's more pleasurable to have them gone. And on and on.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: deCypher]
#18777328 - 08/30/13 01:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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These are well-chosen quotes, but any of the truths that an opium user can discern based on these quotes, can also be discerned with psychedelics, only opiates are enslaving and psychedelics are liberating. Freedom is the singular feature that determines my valuation of a substance. Eternity Itself seem to have qualifications of Heavens, Hells, or the transcendence of these extremes altogether. I prefer the writings of those who espouse psychedelics over the ones who espouse the alleged virtues of narcotics, like Crowley, De Quincy, Coleridge, JD Morrison. There may be exquisite eloquence in these writers, but their language is enveloped in a gray aura, so-to-speak. I prefer lucid luminescence and upliftingly sublime emotions, not sweet blissfulness terminating in darkness. I'm not versed in Huxley's writings on opiate, but I rather enjoy his work on mescaline. "I've been down so goddamned long, that it looks like up to me..." - JDM
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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The Phleg
Big Dick Chakra



Registered: 03/07/10
Posts: 14,473
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: I prefer lucid luminescence and upliftingly sublime emotions, not sweet blissfulness terminating in darkness.
Interesting you put it that way. What do you think the difference is between people choosing one view from the other?
-------------------- You wanna get high? Drink tap water. --------------------
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Astrodelic]
#18781472 - 08/31/13 02:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Astrodelic said:
Quote:
Can you think of any human behavior or activity that is not, fundamentally, motivated around acquiring pleasure (short-term or long-term)?
cops scraping dead kids off the highway after a drunk collision.
Calling a new widow to give her the news about her husband who just died in Iraq.
Putting down dogs at the pound because there isn't a home for them.
Being cordial with people you don't like.
When you were a kid, going to school and having to deal with being picked on.
Being nice to an ex when you run into him/her at random while they're with their new love.
I can continue?
All these might not be pleasurable in the immediate short-term, but in the long-term I'd argue they provide the people who perform these actions with more pleasure/less pain than if they hadn't performed them. The cop who scrapes dead kids off the highway is doing so because he feels like it's the right thing to do, sure, but he also knows that doing the right thing as opposed to the wrong thing will avoid him feeling guilt and shame. He probably also will feel good after doing it because he knows he helped society in a capacity that few of us can. 
Same goes for all the other things you listed. We might not go about all the actions in our life with the immediate, direct conscious motivation of seeking pleasure and avoiding pain, but ultimately I think it always comes down to that, whether in the form of avoiding the repercussions of guilt and other negative emotions, or just in the subtle good feeling of knowing we've helped someone else. to Ice's response too.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: I prefer lucid luminescence and upliftingly sublime emotions, not sweet blissfulness terminating in darkness.
There is a certain seduction in the nihilistic euphoria inherent in the compound, I feel. Freud's Thanatos and Eros instincts all wrapped up together into a syringe--some heroin users report falling in love with the drug, and some certainly seem to chase after death like it's their job. I watched a documentary once where a heroin user's best friend died from an OD and the first thing he thought of was that he needed to find the dealer who had supplied him because their product was obviously really good. 
Funny you mention Crowley, though. His book Diary of a Drug Fiend was an excellent read if anyone's interested in a fictional (though based off Crowley's own experiences) account of both the highs and lows of cocaine and heroin abuse.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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dustinthewind13
Fool



Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 5,219
Loc: Being a burden
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: deCypher]
#18784439 - 09/01/13 08:46 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: I prefer lucid luminescence and upliftingly sublime emotions, not sweet blissfulness terminating in darkness.
There is a certain seduction in the nihilistic euphoria inherent in the compound, I feel. Freud's Thanatos and Eros instincts all wrapped up together into a syringe--some heroin users report falling in love with the drug, and some certainly seem to chase after death like it's their job. I watched a documentary once where a heroin user's best friend died from an OD and the first thing he thought of was that he needed to find the dealer who had supplied him because their product was obviously really good. 
Funny you mention Crowley, though. His book Diary of a Drug Fiend was an excellent read if anyone's interested in a fictional (though based off Crowley's own experiences) account of both the highs and lows of cocaine and heroin abuse. 
I love this post!
-------------------- "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "A room without books is like a body without a soul." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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I just ordered that book due to his post.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dustinthewind13
Fool



Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 5,219
Loc: Being a burden
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Icelander]
#18784540 - 09/01/13 09:28 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Let me know what you think of it. Been planning on reading it for a while.
On a side note. I'm getting some heroin today. Can't wait.
-------------------- "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "A room without books is like a body without a soul." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson
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Sse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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be careful mang
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
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dustinthewind13
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Sse]
#18785028 - 09/01/13 12:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Tnx man. I will. Especially since I hardly ever do it.
-------------------- "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "A room without books is like a body without a soul." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson
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Sse
Saṃsāra

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Good to hear
The only times I've done it were smoking a few hits after a lot of other drugs. I usually passed out not long after. I preferred ingesting or smoking the big pharma pills seems a lot safer but I imagine smoking heroin/pills could be overdone easily too, especially if you get an unusually strong batch of H.
The people I've known to O.D were shooting up but they were everyday all day users.
have fun 
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: deCypher]
#18786257 - 09/01/13 05:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I had Diary of a Drug Fiend in mind when I wrote this. I read that book in 1986 when I began my former gig of 27 years as a substance abuse specialist in a major school system.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: The Phleg]
#18786381 - 09/01/13 06:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
pyrate999 said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: I prefer lucid luminescence and upliftingly sublime emotions, not sweet blissfulness terminating in darkness.
Interesting you put it that way. What do you think the difference is between people choosing one view from the other?
Like the Jim Morrison quote, I am reminded of a parallel by way of metaphor, namely nitrogen narcosis, AKA 'raptures of the deep.' I was a scuba diver for a few years in Miami, and you have to take a training course, pass written and water certification tests, without which people don't risk selling you compressed air, or take you out on dive trips. Anyway, if one exceeds one's designated 'bottom time,' which means just so many minutes at increasing depths, the nitrogen that you're breathing (air is 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, and 1% other gases) begins to have an intoxicating effect on your body. You develop the inebriating effects of intoxication, and divers have been known to swim deeper and deeper. 130 feet is the maximum on air. Deeper dives require other gases. But a basic confusion occurs, or a death-wish sets in. I don't know because at those depths, the dead diver doesn't come back up and if he did, he couldn't tell us what he was thinking, being dead and all.
People get confused in life just as the diver with nitrogen narcosis. They begin to plumb depths which will inevitably result in premature death. "I've been down so goddamned long, it looks like up to me..." High states of consciousness may be accompanied by bliss, but in Buddhism, which understands these conditions, one wants to move past bliss into clarity, Vajra consciousness. Attachment to blisses of various kinds is where people lose their way, just as the diver does. They pursue more and more intense blisses even though that is what death feels like under certain conditions. It certainly 'high' on the pleasure-pain continuum compared to the Buddhist who self-immolates himself. But higher consciousness transcends the entire pleasure-pain continuum to arrive at a condition of unification from which that dualistic continuum emerges. The opiate addict simply becomes addicted to bliss, even though bliss is the mask of death. It's a Thanatos-Eros, death-life, Muladhara-Svadhisthana chakra, anal-genital constellation. It's about pre-personal, instinctual, regressive tendencies, not personal or trans-personal, intuitive, progressive tendencies. In fact people who confuse the blissful opiate conditions with the word 'high,' demonstrate what Ken Wilber brilliantly called the "Pre-Trans Fallacy." Being on narcotics is being 'low,' not 'high,' on several levels, including the predominating chakra-motivation, the regression towards formerly intrauterine existence (Freud's "oceanic feelings"), and the reduction of moral development commensurate with infantile, pre-personal stages of development. The 'I want what I want when I want it' mentality of a junkie is infantile primary process material, with no ability to defer gratification. A raging baby in an adult body, with no moral development is a era danger to self and others IMO.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Memories



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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: The Phleg]
#18786548 - 09/01/13 06:57 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: sweet blissfulness terminating in darkness.
I think this describes opiates quite well. When i was a heavy user in the past, i accepted the immenent future of increasingly pervasive agony and soul-shattering despair in turn for that quick escape into the warm, thoughtless bliss that is opiates.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Sse]
#18786555 - 09/01/13 07:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I preferred ingesting or smoking the big pharma pills seems a lot safer but I imagine smoking heroin/pills could be overdone easily
Imagination is just that, and it is not grounded in reality. Oxycodone is currently the #1 problem epidemiologically speaking, and it is in no way "easy" to overcome. If someone is predisposed to use opiates, they are equally predisposed to its addiction, and to the corollary defense mechanism of denial.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Memories



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It's amazing how much rampant denial goes on amongst opiate addicts. Most junkies i meet claim they just use their scripts and illegally acquired opioids for legitamate pain management as the result of some accident or condition.
It's pretty interesting watching someone go into the same bullshit spiel while they repeatedly poke the few spots of their body with usable veins left in hopes of getting the speedball into their bloodstream.
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Sse
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I meant overdone as in O.D from, I haven't seen it happen from first hand experience. But I imagine it wouldn't be hard to do, especially if you got an unusually high quality heroin.
Everyone I've known to have O.D'd was from injection.
Only used it when it was around(which was a lot) but never withdrew or had any dependence issues; actually never had any dependence issue with anything I've taken. Probably due to the rude awakening I experienced.
Only opiate I will touch and I actually prefer to any of the synthetic forms, is kratom. Doubt I will ever touch another synthetic drug; for recreation or for self-medicinal purposes.
My preferred drug was on the other side of the spectrum; stimulants. That's been many moons ago though.
Good ole cannabis, kratom, kava are my go to meds though I can't afford kava anymore, kratom either... I'm gonna have to plant a tree I think
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
Edited by Sse (09/01/13 09:01 PM)
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lolwut
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Memories]
#18787170 - 09/01/13 09:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Memories said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: sweet blissfulness terminating in darkness.
I think this describes opiates quite well. When i was a heavy user in the past, i accepted the immenent future of increasingly pervasive agony and soul-shattering despair in turn for that quick escape into the warm, thoughtless bliss that is opiates.
I guess it's true that Every Junkie's Like A Setting Sun
-------------------- Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth, and taste...
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Memories



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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: lolwut]
#18787301 - 09/01/13 09:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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At my worst, i knew i was reaching the point where stealing and/or dealing was going to be necessary to keep up the habit, and i was deep enough to where this knowledge didn't even deter me. I accepted the idea of using with reckless abandon until i was either locked up or went to some full treatment rehab.
Luckily, i moved continents right as the withdrawals were really getting bad.
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Sse
Saṃsāra

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What happened to most people I know, is they started with ingesting low level pain killers, vicoden, percocet's, morphine(rare). Whichever they could find, slowly the amount they needed would increase without thinking much about any consequence. Then one day those blue little 30mg oxies came around, people were ingesting those. They were very affordable. They began ingesting more and more, then they began smoking them. Once they began smoking them severe addiction began. Nothing else was satisfying, they had to smoke them, which burned through them quick, faster high, higher high, less duration. Then they needed more and more and more.
That began their life of constant every waking moment needing to get their fix and then the game began as pills became more expensive. Constantly having to hustle whatever necessary... mostly by selling pills or finding people hook ups for pills and charging extra or getting some pills from the deal. Then after a while of that they began shooting up. Once they shot up, that became the preferred method. Addiction grew stronger the game continued with hustling to get their oxy.
Slowly deciding the worth of their acquaintances/people they were hooking up with their connection to skim off of , "hmm ya I would lose that friend for 300$". Eventually got to the point where they ripped off everyone they were hooking up. Next step was to go to their longer term friends. Sneakily stealing from people that trusted them. By this time they weren't able to afford oxy any more, the only other option being heroin. Fuck everyone else, I need to stop these horrible withdrawals from happening, whatever it takes, who ever I fuck over or manipulate. Girls began whoring themselves out, and I wouldn't be surprised if the guys were too, one of their dealers was known as BBG(big black and gay) and I've heard of that being an acceptable method of payment.
If you would have asked them a few years earlier if they foresaw any of that coming, I highly doubt they did. Shit just evolved gradually. The drug really took ahold of them and that's all that mattered.
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
Edited by Sse (09/01/13 10:24 PM)
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Icelander
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: lolwut]
#18788010 - 09/02/13 01:47 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
lolwut said:
Quote:
Memories said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: sweet blissfulness terminating in darkness.
I think this describes opiates quite well. When i was a heavy user in the past, i accepted the immenent future of increasingly pervasive agony and soul-shattering despair in turn for that quick escape into the warm, thoughtless bliss that is opiates.
I guess it's true that Every Junkie's Like A Setting Sun
I listen to Neil a ton these days.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dustinthewind13
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: lolwut]
#18790905 - 09/02/13 05:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I ended up not buying heroin. Although I yearn to feel good, since I've been very depressed lately, I am sort of glad that I didn't fuck with my brains reword system. Heroin is more for rock stars or the rich, if you ask me. I feel that if I cannot afford to be chronic addict, it is best to not do it at all. Of course, I'll very likely occasionally treat myself to the escapism drugs provide. Maybe when I'm old and have accumulated enough money, I'll move to a country where it is legal and spend my final days in euphoric bliss, given that I do not end my life as a result of the depression I'm trying to escape taking drugs.
-------------------- "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "A room without books is like a body without a soul." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson
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Sse
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I was in a pretty bad place for a while and what had helped me get through was cannabis, kratom, kava. Mostly kratom and cannabis. Kratom can really do wonders for times when you just feel like shit and need a change of headspace. I think it has been very effective at bringing me back towards equilibrium.
There are some really nice strains out there that have a very unique energized opiate quality that stabilize the mood from my experience. The trick was just finding the right dosage/strain for my liking. I really owe a lot to that tree.
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
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Icelander
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Sse]
#18792080 - 09/02/13 09:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Did you find any that don't cause nausea? That was my problem with it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Sse
Saṃsāra

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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Icelander]
#18792225 - 09/02/13 09:39 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I run into that problem too. For me, to counteract that, I take it with a really big healthy meal. I noticed also that if I filter out all the leaf powder that it can reduce the nausea greatly, but you do lose some of the alkaloids that aren't water soluble; still a great experience. I took it like that for a very long time. The combination of a large meal and filtering equals no nausea for me, now a days just the large meal is enough. Taking it with milk and honey seems to help also. And of course even just a puff or two of cannabis knocks out all nausea for me.
I prefer the green Malaysian strain, I don't get as much nausea on it as I did with maeng da, which is a red variety I think.
Also, I prepare mine by boiling on high for 20 minutes, reducing to just below high, if it begins boiling the powder to the side of the pot to quickly. I'm usually watching or peaking in every few minutes to keep the powder from collecting on the edges of the pot.
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
Edited by Sse (09/02/13 09:49 PM)
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Icelander
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Sse]
#18792284 - 09/02/13 09:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks for the info, I might just try it again.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Sse
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Icelander]
#18792317 - 09/02/13 09:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Np, with the green stains they can be a little overly stimulating at certain doses, especially at the very onset. Then after an hour or two it settles into something more synergetic and more like an opiate. Low does in the tsp and under range can be like a nice strong morning coffee but with an opiate/euphoric twist. 1.5-2 tsp may be more overly stimulating, 2.5-3 is what I find to be best these days. Kratom alkaloids are weird, the more you up the dosage after a certain point, the less stimulating and the more opiating. The trick for me was finding that perfect level that creates the best of both experiences. The green malay is nice once you find your sweet spot and can last quite a while, upwards of 7-8 hours.
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
Edited by Sse (09/02/13 10:16 PM)
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dustinthewind13
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Icelander]
#18792503 - 09/02/13 10:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Did you find any that don't cause nausea? That was my problem with it.
Take some Diphenhydramine. That stuff always helps.
-------------------- "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "A room without books is like a body without a soul." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson
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lolwut
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Quote:
dustinthewind13 said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Did you find any that don't cause nausea? That was my problem with it.
Take some Diphenhydramine. That stuff always helps.
Yeah take the whole pack
-------------------- Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth, and taste...
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Sse
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: lolwut]
#18792659 - 09/02/13 11:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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used to be fun in jail, don't snort it though hehe burns like nothing else... except 2c-d.
edit: I forgot to mention, I also put a little under a tablespoon of butter in my kratom and some pure peppermint oil drops
Edited by Sse (09/02/13 11:59 PM)
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deCypher



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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Sse]
#18793337 - 09/03/13 07:30 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
dustinthewind13 said: I ended up not buying heroin. Although I yearn to feel good, since I've been very depressed lately, I am sort of glad that I didn't fuck with my brains reword system. Heroin is more for rock stars or the rich, if you ask me. I feel that if I cannot afford to be chronic addict, it is best to not do it at all. Of course, I'll very likely occasionally treat myself to the escapism drugs provide. Maybe when I'm old and have accumulated enough money, I'll move to a country where it is legal and spend my final days in euphoric bliss, given that I do not end my life as a result of the depression I'm trying to escape taking drugs.

The healthy choice, no doubt.
Quote:
Sse said: If you would have asked them a few years earlier if they foresaw any of that coming, I highly doubt they did. Shit just evolved gradually. The drug really took ahold of them and that's all that mattered.
Yeah, opiate addiction definitely sneaks up on you. The lack of a hangover (in fact more of an euphoric afterglow) and apparent lack of negative side effects compared to other addictive drugs like amphetamines and cocaine contributes to the user feeling as if the substance is incredibly benign, and of course the psychological addiction helps one rationalize that anyone who brings up the negatives of opiates simply doesn't know what they're talking about. "I'm not a junkie like those guys... I can stop at any time."
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Memories



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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Icelander]
#18794186 - 09/03/13 12:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Did you find any that don't cause nausea? That was my problem with it.
You can easily get antiemetics which subdue nausea and vomiting. Also, I find that nausea is far more prevalent when you have hardly used opiates. After using them more frequently and not exceeding a comfortable dose, I've never had a problem.
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Icelander
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Memories]
#18794197 - 09/03/13 12:41 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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topdog82
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:
pyrate999 said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: I prefer lucid luminescence and upliftingly sublime emotions, not sweet blissfulness terminating in darkness.
Interesting you put it that way. What do you think the difference is between people choosing one view from the other?
Like the Jim Morrison quote, I am reminded of a parallel by way of metaphor, namely nitrogen narcosis, AKA 'raptures of the deep.' I was a scuba diver for a few years in Miami, and you have to take a training course, pass written and water certification tests, without which people don't risk selling you compressed air, or take you out on dive trips. Anyway, if one exceeds one's designated 'bottom time,' which means just so many minutes at increasing depths, the nitrogen that you're breathing (air is 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, and 1% other gases) begins to have an intoxicating effect on your body. You develop the inebriating effects of intoxication, and divers have been known to swim deeper and deeper. 130 feet is the maximum on air. Deeper dives require other gases. But a basic confusion occurs, or a death-wish sets in. I don't know because at those depths, the dead diver doesn't come back up and if he did, he couldn't tell us what he was thinking, being dead and all.
People get confused in life just as the diver with nitrogen narcosis. They begin to plumb depths which will inevitably result in premature death. "I've been down so goddamned long, it looks like up to me..." High states of consciousness may be accompanied by bliss, but in Buddhism, which understands these conditions, one wants to move past bliss into clarity, Vajra consciousness. Attachment to blisses of various kinds is where people lose their way, just as the diver does. They pursue more and more intense blisses even though that is what death feels like under certain conditions. It certainly 'high' on the pleasure-pain continuum compared to the Buddhist who self-immolates himself. But higher consciousness transcends the entire pleasure-pain continuum to arrive at a condition of unification from which that dualistic continuum emerges. The opiate addict simply becomes addicted to bliss, even though bliss is the mask of death. It's a Thanatos-Eros, death-life, Muladhara-Svadhisthana chakra, anal-genital constellation. It's about pre-personal, instinctual, regressive tendencies, not personal or trans-personal, intuitive, progressive tendencies. In fact people who confuse the blissful opiate conditions with the word 'high,' demonstrate what Ken Wilber brilliantly called the "Pre-Trans Fallacy." Being on narcotics is being 'low,' not 'high,' on several levels, including the predominating chakra-motivation, the regression towards formerly intrauterine existence (Freud's "oceanic feelings"), and the reduction of moral development commensurate with infantile, pre-personal stages of development. The 'I want what I want when I want it' mentality of a junkie is infantile primary process material, with no ability to defer gratification. A raging baby in an adult body, with no moral development is a era danger to self and others IMO.

your post made my day. Thanks for the knowledge/insight!
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topdog82
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: These are well-chosen quotes, but any of the truths that an opium user can discern based on these quotes, can also be discerned with psychedelics, only opiates are enslaving and psychedelics are liberating. Freedom is the singular feature that determines my valuation of a substance. Eternity Itself seem to have qualifications of Heavens, Hells, or the transcendence of these extremes altogether. I prefer the writings of those who espouse psychedelics over the ones who espouse the alleged virtues of narcotics, like Crowley, De Quincy, Coleridge, JD Morrison. There may be exquisite eloquence in these writers, but their language is enveloped in a gray aura, so-to-speak. I prefer lucid luminescence and upliftingly sublime emotions, not sweet blissfulness terminating in darkness. I'm not versed in Huxley's writings on opiate, but I rather enjoy his work on mescaline. "I've been down so goddamned long, that it looks like up to me..." - JDM
I honestly feel that neither psyches or opiates hold long term gains. You trip balls...then a week later its like it never happened
Most effective to find truth in clarity, but thats purely my opinion
I think we have all had those moments where we did a strong drug (opiates, benzos, alc, amp, mdma, and LSD/DMT) and we think we have found the best thing since sliced bread. A source of all the happiness you could look for! and then the "catch" becomes apparent. Coming down from LSD I have said multiple times "fuck everything I was doing before. Tomorrow morning, my life will forever be changed". And that has never really happened. For opiates "This is the purest bliss I have ever experienced" and for MDMA "Why cant everyone b like the people at this rave. So nice and loving". In either of those cases I either realized that the only reason I thought people loved me was because I was rolling balls and so was the girl I thought I was in love with. And with opiates, I am constipated for the next day and itch lol
Ironically, you think you are getting closer to finding truth, but you get farther away from objective reality (which is where I believe peace and happiness lie)
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kakashi68
Connoiseur of Illicit Substances


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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: topdog82]
#18802156 - 09/05/13 05:36 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
topdog82 said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: These are well-chosen quotes, but any of the truths that an opium user can discern based on these quotes, can also be discerned with psychedelics, only opiates are enslaving and psychedelics are liberating. Freedom is the singular feature that determines my valuation of a substance. Eternity Itself seem to have qualifications of Heavens, Hells, or the transcendence of these extremes altogether. I prefer the writings of those who espouse psychedelics over the ones who espouse the alleged virtues of narcotics, like Crowley, De Quincy, Coleridge, JD Morrison. There may be exquisite eloquence in these writers, but their language is enveloped in a gray aura, so-to-speak. I prefer lucid luminescence and upliftingly sublime emotions, not sweet blissfulness terminating in darkness. I'm not versed in Huxley's writings on opiate, but I rather enjoy his work on mescaline. "I've been down so goddamned long, that it looks like up to me..." - JDM
I honestly feel that neither psyches or opiates hold long term gains. You trip balls...then a week later its like it never happened
Most effective to find truth in clarity, but thats purely my opinion
I think we have all had those moments where we did a strong drug (opiates, benzos, alc, amp, mdma, and LSD/DMT) and we think we have found the best thing since sliced bread. A source of all the happiness you could look for! and then the "catch" becomes apparent. Coming down from LSD I have said multiple times "fuck everything I was doing before. Tomorrow morning, my life will forever be changed". And that has never really happened. For opiates "This is the purest bliss I have ever experienced" and for MDMA "Why cant everyone b like the people at this rave. So nice and loving". In either of those cases I either realized that the only reason I thought people loved me was because I was rolling balls and so was the girl I thought I was in love with. And with opiates, I am constipated for the next day and itch lol
Ironically, you think you are getting closer to finding truth, but you get farther away from objective reality (which is where I believe peace and happiness lie)
Dude trips change your life.... They may not immediately or in obvious ways, but they def change your life and beliefs atleast IME
-------------------- You know, just sometimes in between the first cigarette with coffee in the morning to that 400th glass of cornershop piss at 3am--you do sometimes look at yourself and think--this is fantastic. I'm in heaven. -Bernard Black
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: kakashi68]
#18802993 - 09/05/13 11:41 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
kakashi68 said:
Quote:
topdog82 said:
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MarkostheGnostic said: These are well-chosen quotes, but any of the truths that an opium user can discern based on these quotes, can also be discerned with psychedelics, only opiates are enslaving and psychedelics are liberating. Freedom is the singular feature that determines my valuation of a substance. Eternity Itself seem to have qualifications of Heavens, Hells, or the transcendence of these extremes altogether. I prefer the writings of those who espouse psychedelics over the ones who espouse the alleged virtues of narcotics, like Crowley, De Quincy, Coleridge, JD Morrison. There may be exquisite eloquence in these writers, but their language is enveloped in a gray aura, so-to-speak. I prefer lucid luminescence and upliftingly sublime emotions, not sweet blissfulness terminating in darkness. I'm not versed in Huxley's writings on opiate, but I rather enjoy his work on mescaline. "I've been down so goddamned long, that it looks like up to me..." - JDM
I honestly feel that neither psyches or opiates hold long term gains. You trip balls...then a week later its like it never happened
Most effective to find truth in clarity, but thats purely my opinion
I think we have all had those moments where we did a strong drug (opiates, benzos, alc, amp, mdma, and LSD/DMT) and we think we have found the best thing since sliced bread. A source of all the happiness you could look for! and then the "catch" becomes apparent. Coming down from LSD I have said multiple times "fuck everything I was doing before. Tomorrow morning, my life will forever be changed". And that has never really happened. For opiates "This is the purest bliss I have ever experienced" and for MDMA "Why cant everyone b like the people at this rave. So nice and loving". In either of those cases I either realized that the only reason I thought people loved me was because I was rolling balls and so was the girl I thought I was in love with. And with opiates, I am constipated for the next day and itch lol
Ironically, you think you are getting closer to finding truth, but you get farther away from objective reality (which is where I believe peace and happiness lie)
Dude trips change your life.... They may not immediately or in obvious ways, but they def change your life and beliefs atleast IME
I guess I cant speak for everyone. But That was just my experience
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: topdog82] 2
#18812356 - 09/07/13 05:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Substances do not facilitate everyone's Awakening. LSD did Awaken me, and in the wake of that Awakening, it changed my very life, my values, my choices. I gave up thinking I was going to become a medical doctor because the psychedelics softened my formerly cold logical mind, and I hated killing animals for dissection. I gave up eating animals too. I wanted to help people, I wasn't interested in making lots of money, and I realized that the medical mind-set was utterly materialistic. Having glimpsed more subtle planes of Reality, I changed my major to philosophy, graduated with a BA degree in it. Then I got into a Christian seminary to learn what I could about Christ. Finally, not being interested or culturally disposed to become a minister, I headed off to graduate school to study psychology because I needed a livelihood. I have continued to use psychedelics for 42 years in various capacities. I have stopped at times, and I have abused them at times in the past. They fueled a passion to understand, and while I was attempting to understand, I was transformed into a more empathic and compassionate person which I was able to realize/actualize by counseling adolescents for almost 30 years. Meanwhile, I have explored many different paths for increasing gnosis, wisdom, and compassion.
I didn't discover MDMA until the late 90s, and from a psychotherapist's point of view, I can say with authority that one can learn in 3 hours what it takes most people months or even years to acquire through traditional therapy. Opiates are pain-killers, pure and simple. That is their only legitimate use IMO, and anything else is about escapism and addiction, both of which are forms of slavery and diametrically opposed to freedom. Opiates do not facilitate the process of Awakening is the bottom line.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 2 days
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Substances do not facilitate everyone's Awakening. LSD did Awaken me, and in the wake of that Awakening, it changed my very life, my values, my choices. I gave up thinking I was going to become a medical doctor because the psychedelics softened my formerly cold logical mind, and I hated killing animals for dissection. I gave up eating animals too. I wanted to help people, I wasn't interested in making lots of money, and I realized that the medical mind-set was utterly materialistic. Having glimpsed more subtle planes of Reality, I changed my major to philosophy, graduated with a BA degree in it. Then I got into a Christian seminary to learn what I could about Christ. Finally, not being interested or culturally disposed to become a minister, I headed off to graduate school to study psychology because I needed a livelihood. I have continued to use psychedelics for 42 years in various capacities. I have stopped at times, and I have abused them at times in the past. They fueled a passion to understand, and while I was attempting to understand, I was transformed into a more empathic and compassionate person which I was able to realize/actualize by counseling adolescents for almost 30 years. Meanwhile, I have explored many different paths for increasing gnosis, wisdom, and compassion.
I didn't discover MDMA until the late 90s, and from a psychotherapist's point of view, I can say with authority that one can learn in 3 hours what it takes most people months or even years to acquire through traditional therapy. Opiates are pain-killers, pure and simple. That is their only legitimate use IMO, and anything else is about escapism and addiction, both of which are forms of slavery and diametrically opposed to freedom. Opiates do not facilitate the process of Awakening is the bottom line.
Glad to get your take on it. I feel that I always had a tendency to not be materialistic, but LSD kind of reminded me of that
I honestly didnt get much from mdma in terms of long term changes. But I defintaely can see how it would help it relaionship therapy etc
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Opiates do not facilitate the process of Awakening is the bottom line.
They may not facilitate the process for you, but I have read many testimonials from people who had gone through the process of addiction and subsequent recovery, and in many cases the process did help induce a sort of spiritual awakening and change of their life for the better. It's not so much the act of ingesting the opiate that facilitates the process of Awakening, in other words, but the act of experiencing the darkness that is addiction/slavery to Desire and learning how to overcome it that yields transcendence for some. For others, it may lead to jail and overdose. But such is the nature of wishing to take the fast-track to Enlightenment via syringe. 
The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom. --William Blake
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Loc: underbelly
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: deCypher]
#18813429 - 09/07/13 11:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Nobody knows how it is for everybody.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: deCypher]
#18813480 - 09/07/13 11:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think you're probably right. It's unfortunate that some people have to hit bottom before they rebound, and it's worse when they don't rebound.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: These are well-chosen quotes, but any of the truths that an opium user can discern based on these quotes, can also be discerned with psychedelics, only opiates are enslaving and psychedelics are liberating. Freedom is the singular feature that determines my valuation of a substance. Eternity Itself seem to have qualifications of Heavens, Hells, or the transcendence of these extremes altogether. I prefer the writings of those who espouse psychedelics over the ones who espouse the alleged virtues of narcotics, like Crowley, De Quincy, Coleridge, JD Morrison. There may be exquisite eloquence in these writers, but their language is enveloped in a gray aura, so-to-speak. I prefer lucid luminescence and upliftingly sublime emotions, not sweet blissfulness terminating in darkness. I'm not versed in Huxley's writings on opiate, but I rather enjoy his work on mescaline. "I've been down so goddamned long, that it looks like up to me..." - JDM
Not to mention, for the vast majority of heroin users, no such mind manifesting experiences occur. IMHO, unless you're already an artist on the level of DeQuincy or Coleridge, ya just ain't gonna find such experiences on heroin. That probably excludes all of us here, so use psychedelics instead
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:
pyrate999 said:
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MarkostheGnostic said: I prefer lucid luminescence and upliftingly sublime emotions, not sweet blissfulness terminating in darkness.
Interesting you put it that way. What do you think the difference is between people choosing one view from the other?
Like the Jim Morrison quote, I am reminded of a parallel by way of metaphor, namely nitrogen narcosis, AKA 'raptures of the deep.' I was a scuba diver for a few years in Miami, and you have to take a training course, pass written and water certification tests, without which people don't risk selling you compressed air, or take you out on dive trips. Anyway, if one exceeds one's designated 'bottom time,' which means just so many minutes at increasing depths, the nitrogen that you're breathing (air is 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, and 1% other gases) begins to have an intoxicating effect on your body. You develop the inebriating effects of intoxication, and divers have been known to swim deeper and deeper. 130 feet is the maximum on air. Deeper dives require other gases. But a basic confusion occurs, or a death-wish sets in. I don't know because at those depths, the dead diver doesn't come back up and if he did, he couldn't tell us what he was thinking, being dead and all.
People get confused in life just as the diver with nitrogen narcosis. They begin to plumb depths which will inevitably result in premature death. "I've been down so goddamned long, it looks like up to me..." High states of consciousness may be accompanied by bliss, but in Buddhism, which understands these conditions, one wants to move past bliss into clarity, Vajra consciousness. Attachment to blisses of various kinds is where people lose their way, just as the diver does. They pursue more and more intense blisses even though that is what death feels like under certain conditions. It certainly 'high' on the pleasure-pain continuum compared to the Buddhist who self-immolates himself. But higher consciousness transcends the entire pleasure-pain continuum to arrive at a condition of unification from which that dualistic continuum emerges. The opiate addict simply becomes addicted to bliss, even though bliss is the mask of death. It's a Thanatos-Eros, death-life, Muladhara-Svadhisthana chakra, anal-genital constellation. It's about pre-personal, instinctual, regressive tendencies, not personal or trans-personal, intuitive, progressive tendencies. In fact people who confuse the blissful opiate conditions with the word 'high,' demonstrate what Ken Wilber brilliantly called the "Pre-Trans Fallacy." Being on narcotics is being 'low,' not 'high,' on several levels, including the predominating chakra-motivation, the regression towards formerly intrauterine existence (Freud's "oceanic feelings"), and the reduction of moral development commensurate with infantile, pre-personal stages of development. The 'I want what I want when I want it' mentality of a junkie is infantile primary process material, with no ability to defer gratification. A raging baby in an adult body, with no moral development is a era danger to self and others IMO.
Intuitively, I think of heroin addiction in a Freudian manner.... I suspect many of these people are sexually miserable and are using these turn off drugs to solve their sexual hangups by removing sex from the equation all together.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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extreme


Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 9,340
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Astrodelic]
#18814283 - 09/08/13 08:18 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Midnight_Toker said: Opiates make me depressed and depression makes me philosophical.
Quote:
deCypher said: I've had the (mis)fortune of having become deeply acquainted with heroin in the past. All I will say is that any experience that is so significant in making an impact upon one's psyche, brain and body will lead to a new, or at least a changed, perspective on life. As far as specifics, the following gentlemen say it better than I could, and probably in fewer words:
(specifically about opiates:)
Opium teaches only one thing, which is that aside from physical suffering, there is nothing real. --Andre Malraux
A man who has once experienced the drug-life finds it difficult to put up with the inanity of normal existence. He has become wise with the wisdom of despair. --Aleister Crowley
Who lives longer? the man who takes heroin for two years and dies, or a man who lives on roast beef, water and potatoes 'till 95? One passes his 24 months in eternity. All the years of the beefeater are lived only in time. --Aldous Huxley
It is difficult to live without opium after having known it because it is difficult, after knowing opium, to take earth seriously. And unless one is a saint, it is difficult to live without taking earth seriously. --Jean Cocteau
(about pleasure in general:)
If suffering brings wisdom, I would wish to be less wise. --William Butler Yeats
Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it. --Thomas Jefferson
Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure. --Scott Adams
I can understand why some people don't get philosophical with it, but I tend to think philosophically on any drug. GABAergics the least, but even those I think about things and why my care levels have dropped. If anything makes me truly "not care" or whatever it's benzos and alcohol and stuff. It takes a lot to shut my mind off... on opioids I'm still pretty conscious of most things and I still enjoy thinking about things. Shit, thinking about things is even easier because it doesn't hurt as much (some of your quotes reflect this stance, like the bolded ones).
One of the only times I was able to get a heroin nod recently I wrote about a page in my journal. It's pretty hard to read but I was linking a lot of things metaphorically and even reading it after the fact I thought it seemed pretty creative. So yea even for non-psychedelic drugs, from meth to heroin, I'm always paying attention to the shift in my own consciousness and how that affects my mood and attitude towards the outside world.
Quote:
Astrodelic said: opium is more philosophical that heroin in my observational opinion.
I don't think it's much of a deep philosophical drug though...as stated it's more of a dreamstate...you may gain some insight but it's not comparable to psychedelics...it is poetic though. Some of my best, most like poetry came from when I was experimenting with opiates (never heroin specifically, I was already having enough problems with what I was doing).
I don't think the class of drugs is worth messing with. The problems outweigh any, negligable at best, benefits.
^^^^ Hell yea that's what I'm talking about 
I don't think they have a negative impact on philosophy from that "dreamer" standpoint, but they don't exactly increase your critical thinking or anything like that
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extreme


Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 9,340
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: extreme]
#18814554 - 09/08/13 10:11 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I just noticed GNR being discussed and I wanted to note that they are my least favorite band I've ever heard. I'd rather stick a fork in my ears.
OK I decided I'll post this journal entry I wrote one night while nodding out. As noted in my other post there's a lot of metaphors and inside things that not everyone is meant to understand. V is a friend of mine. Random #s are mg doses for the junk. I know this all isn't completely pertinent to the topic but I just feel like posting it. I found it interesting while writing that my style was definitely a little different though than on any other drug, or sober.
5:10 AM Friday Morning 6/21/13 85 mins (I usually free write and try and fill a page as fast as I can.. usually only ~15 minutes on average)
It took me the whole day... very all not quite as planned. I wanted to just eat some candy, but with the only new addition being even more dope than that, it was consensual to consume only 24 hours after a spiteful sub. Open 4 times, scratch that 8 times, scratch that 11 times, & with key in other hand - scooped the simultaneously leading crush-jobbed vinegar globules of a tan tint. Sniff. Uhh... Let's go to generic tobacco store subbed, as I did want to do that. I got half of what I was looking for. But I guess some railways runnin' through there would be a little extreme V & I returned to generic hometown subbed after grabbing air freshener. Here there were ways for rails, and we each rode one for a quality control check. Outside we tossed around the pigskin, a little sore from the day before (1st day working out again).
[breaking wall of text]
A little humid & the sun turned that a little sweaty too, though now I'm hearing rain trickle & land so gently. Day humidity in this state = no bueno. A little nighttime drizzle to clear the air is always welcomed. Back to right before V left, we went inside to see one more pair of rails disappear. At this point I either did one or none more until the evening, when it showed up again it was still pretty heavy... 340 or something crazy. Little did I know less than 8 hours later all that weight rested somewhere right in between my eyes. Not until I worked it down to 150 before getting serious about my last pair did I really hate that vinegar stench. Like 90 up right for the 2nd to last sniff finally broke through. Holy shit, which describes why I'm at 70 minutes now on this page. And still shooting up. 4 words in 5 minutes. Yea I'm fighting nod nod, the 6:30 AM nod, the melatonod, & the stoned nod. As soon as I can fill this page I can close my eyes, I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN DO IT RIGHT Heat won finals, bed time.
* the caps and extra spaces there was to fill space I had like 2 lines left to go to fill the page but nothing was coming to mind to right about I just wanted to nod/sleep.
This was the first journal entry I made in like 4.5 months (I also noted that at the top of the paper by the date). Not super philosophical content but when I write journals for myself they are ways for me to cope with the day and life and stuff, whether it be existential crises or just little personal things everyone goes through. Or I might be fully content and I'll just write about my day and the fun things I did. Apparently my day that day was pretty chill (no shit, the dope helped lol).
Well if anyone reads all that hopefully it was semi-enjoyable. As I mentioned already though, I tend to write a lot more ambiguously and metaphorically on H apparently than other times. My other writings just kinda flow. I think on dope I spend more time thinking of ways to reword what I want to say in ways that most people wouldn't make that statement. It may just end up as a confusing jumbled mess but that's why it's in my personal journal and not in a published and edited piece I'm writing for everyone. I had fun
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: extreme]
#18814991 - 09/08/13 12:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I can't use psychedelics due to physical problems, but I can sure use heroin. As to philosophical content, not really (wouldn't say I find any of those quotes relevant to my heroin use, if anything psychedelic experiences made it more difficult to live within normal states of consciousness) but it sure is a pleasant way to spend an afternoon.
And the Crowley book is great, shame he didn't write any other novels because his poetry sucks ass.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: CosmicJoke]
#18815226 - 09/08/13 01:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Intuitively, I think of heroin addiction in a Freudian manner.... I suspect many of these people are sexually miserable and are using these turn off drugs to solve their sexual hangups by removing sex from the equation all together.
What about people like my ex-girlfriend, whom I dumped in '76 for her ridiculous promiscuity (but whom I dreamed about weekly until about 5 years ago when she found me through someone who had come across a Shroomery post I made). She became a stripper, a hooker, a gang-bang 'old lady' for the Hell's Angels, a pimp, and the owner of an escort service. She began to get skin-popped when she was still in college at age 18. She's had a lifetime of heroin use. During a enlightening phone conversation a few years ago, she confided how her older sister began to molest her as a very young girl. Precociously sexualized, she got raped at knife-point while hitch-hiking. Then, as if to recapitulate the trauma, perhaps to get mastery over it, dorm mates told me they saw her hitch-hiking in her night gown at 1:00 am. It seems she used the heroin to create further dissociation from behaviors that she continued to capitalize on. A real study in contradiction. She is also diagnosed as Borderline Personality Disorder, which does have psychoanalytic etiology as failure to bond with primary caregivers. I don't think bonding goes with prostitution very well.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Intuitively, I think of heroin addiction in a Freudian manner.... I suspect many of these people are sexually miserable and are using these turn off drugs to solve their sexual hangups by removing sex from the equation all together.
What about people like my ex-girlfriend, whom I dumped in '76 for her ridiculous promiscuity (but whom I dreamed about weekly until about 5 years ago when she found me through someone who had come across a Shroomery post I made). She became a stripper, a hooker, a gang-bang 'old lady' for the Hell's Angels, a pimp, and the owner of an escort service. She began to get skin-popped when she was still in college at age 18. She's had a lifetime of heroin use. During a enlightening phone conversation a few years ago, she confided how her older sister began to molest her as a very young girl. Precociously sexualized, she got raped at knife-point while hitch-hiking. Then, as if to recapitulate the trauma, perhaps to get mastery over it, dorm mates told me they saw her hitch-hiking in her night gown at 1:00 am. It seems she used the heroin to create further dissociation from behaviors that she continued to capitalize on. A real study in contradiction. She is also diagnosed as Borderline Personality Disorder, which does have psychoanalytic etiology as failure to bond with primary caregivers. I don't think bonding goes with prostitution very well.
Have you considered the possibility that the stripping and prostitution was done largely to support her heroin habit, rather than the heroin being used to distance herself from the shame of behaving like a compulsive danger slut?
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: CosmicJoke]
#18815888 - 09/08/13 04:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I can't tell what came first, but the early sexualization started at 3-5 years of age. The family had money, lots of money, millions. She was once proposed to by a multi-millionaire and declined his offer. She could have continued to buy smack while living in opulence (she loves riding horses as well as Horse). There is something about 'The Life' that defies all logic.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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extreme


Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 9,340
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: I can't tell what came first, but the early sexualization started at 3-5 years of age. The family had money, lots of money, millions. She was once proposed to by a multi-millionaire and declined his offer. She could have continued to buy smack while living in opulence (she loves riding horses as well as Horse). There is something about 'The Life' that defies all logic.
Now that this thread is slightly off topic (I don't know that it was ever really on topic) but I'll comment that I was in this position recently and turned it down Like the girl tried bribing me with money and I really don't know her that well. It wasn't THAT outright, but when I mentioned my skepticism for a relationship she kinda added that as if it would change things. Some people just can't be bought. To be honest though even though she was cool to hang out with I have a little different standards for a relationship. That bothered her because she really liked me. Maybe later?
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: CosmicJoke]
#18816428 - 09/08/13 07:24 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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CosmicJoke said: Intuitively, I think of heroin addiction in a Freudian manner.... I suspect many of these people are sexually miserable and are using these turn off drugs to solve their sexual hangups by removing sex from the equation all together.
At least personally speaking I've never been sexually abused, and had a healthy and active sex life before getting real bad on dope. It was an amazing aphrodisiac, at least in the beginning--it permitted me to have sex for hours upon hours while experiencing waves of pleasurable euphoria. Over time, however, it lowers testosterone levels and one finds one's interest in sex diminishing to the point of non-existence. Of course at that point one couldn't care less so long as one has steady access to dope. 
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MarkostheGnostic said: She began to get skin-popped when she was still in college at age 18.
I've heard old dope-head literature talk about skin-popping but AFAIK it's non-existent in the modern heroin scene. Why would you want to risk causing abscesses and a slower route of administration than ye olde mainline into the vein?
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: deCypher]
#18816664 - 09/08/13 08:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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deCypher said:
At least personally speaking I've never been sexually abused, and had a healthy and active sex life before getting real bad on dope. It was an amazing aphrodisiac, at least in the beginning--it permitted me to have sex for hours upon hours while experiencing waves of pleasurable euphoria. Over time, however, it lowers testosterone levels and one finds one's interest in sex diminishing to the point of non-existence. Of course at that point one couldn't care less so long as one has steady access to dope. 
Well, without a doubt my suspicions are oversimplified, and ignore the aspect of addiction as a disease of exposure. But there is undoubtably some symbiotic relationship between sex and heroin, if only that junk often kills the addict's sex drive and leaves them with no eroticism except in their fantasy.
Perhaps you were this totally emotionally healthy well adjusted being with no sexual hang-ups that just so happened to get addicted to heroin, or perhaps those sexual hangups weren't particularly conspicuous amongst a legion of other problems 
Forgive me if I'm somewhat skeptical. I'm of the opinion that the intensity of pleasure produced by opiates is directly proportional to the degree of neurosis one experiences. Painkillers and tranquilizers just aren't that inherently pleasurable to everybody. Some people find intense satisfaction often throughout their day in total sobriety.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: CosmicJoke]
#18816692 - 09/08/13 08:41 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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CosmicJoke said: Perhaps you were this totally emotionally healthy well adjusted being with no sexual hang-ups that just so happened to get addicted to heroin, or perhaps those sexual hangups weren't particularly conspicuous amongst a legion of other problems 
No, I definitely wasn't a completely well adjusted perfect being--the main reason I suspect I got hooked was because I was pretty prone to depression and social anxiety at the time. Opiates completely cured this (at least, while I was high)--they made conversing with strangers at a party a complete breeze and any negative emotions I was feeling wholly vanish. Unfortunately, all these problems came back with a vengeance after I came down from them, and so the decision to redose was made that much easier.
Honestly I think the majority of users who get addicted to heroin and other opiates do so because of depression rather than sexual hang-ups.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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extreme


Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 9,340
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: deCypher]
#18816797 - 09/08/13 09:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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deCypher said: Honestly I think the majority of users who get addicted to heroin and other opiates do so because of depression
I think this is often the case with most "hard" drugs. I've yet to meet a crack or meth addict that doesn't have depression either.
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Memories



Registered: 05/09/12
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Loc: Suwannee River
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: deCypher]
#18817031 - 09/08/13 10:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Honestly, the rush from IV hydromorphone is better than sex. That may be not true if you are really into the girl in the start of the relationship.
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