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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 2 days
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: These are well-chosen quotes, but any of the truths that an opium user can discern based on these quotes, can also be discerned with psychedelics, only opiates are enslaving and psychedelics are liberating. Freedom is the singular feature that determines my valuation of a substance. Eternity Itself seem to have qualifications of Heavens, Hells, or the transcendence of these extremes altogether. I prefer the writings of those who espouse psychedelics over the ones who espouse the alleged virtues of narcotics, like Crowley, De Quincy, Coleridge, JD Morrison. There may be exquisite eloquence in these writers, but their language is enveloped in a gray aura, so-to-speak. I prefer lucid luminescence and upliftingly sublime emotions, not sweet blissfulness terminating in darkness. I'm not versed in Huxley's writings on opiate, but I rather enjoy his work on mescaline. "I've been down so goddamned long, that it looks like up to me..." - JDM
I honestly feel that neither psyches or opiates hold long term gains. You trip balls...then a week later its like it never happened
Most effective to find truth in clarity, but thats purely my opinion
I think we have all had those moments where we did a strong drug (opiates, benzos, alc, amp, mdma, and LSD/DMT) and we think we have found the best thing since sliced bread. A source of all the happiness you could look for! and then the "catch" becomes apparent. Coming down from LSD I have said multiple times "fuck everything I was doing before. Tomorrow morning, my life will forever be changed". And that has never really happened. For opiates "This is the purest bliss I have ever experienced" and for MDMA "Why cant everyone b like the people at this rave. So nice and loving". In either of those cases I either realized that the only reason I thought people loved me was because I was rolling balls and so was the girl I thought I was in love with. And with opiates, I am constipated for the next day and itch lol
Ironically, you think you are getting closer to finding truth, but you get farther away from objective reality (which is where I believe peace and happiness lie)
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kakashi68
Connoiseur of Illicit Substances


Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 2,116
Loc: STRAYA
Last seen: 9 days, 23 hours
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: topdog82]
#18802156 - 09/05/13 05:36 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
topdog82 said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: These are well-chosen quotes, but any of the truths that an opium user can discern based on these quotes, can also be discerned with psychedelics, only opiates are enslaving and psychedelics are liberating. Freedom is the singular feature that determines my valuation of a substance. Eternity Itself seem to have qualifications of Heavens, Hells, or the transcendence of these extremes altogether. I prefer the writings of those who espouse psychedelics over the ones who espouse the alleged virtues of narcotics, like Crowley, De Quincy, Coleridge, JD Morrison. There may be exquisite eloquence in these writers, but their language is enveloped in a gray aura, so-to-speak. I prefer lucid luminescence and upliftingly sublime emotions, not sweet blissfulness terminating in darkness. I'm not versed in Huxley's writings on opiate, but I rather enjoy his work on mescaline. "I've been down so goddamned long, that it looks like up to me..." - JDM
I honestly feel that neither psyches or opiates hold long term gains. You trip balls...then a week later its like it never happened
Most effective to find truth in clarity, but thats purely my opinion
I think we have all had those moments where we did a strong drug (opiates, benzos, alc, amp, mdma, and LSD/DMT) and we think we have found the best thing since sliced bread. A source of all the happiness you could look for! and then the "catch" becomes apparent. Coming down from LSD I have said multiple times "fuck everything I was doing before. Tomorrow morning, my life will forever be changed". And that has never really happened. For opiates "This is the purest bliss I have ever experienced" and for MDMA "Why cant everyone b like the people at this rave. So nice and loving". In either of those cases I either realized that the only reason I thought people loved me was because I was rolling balls and so was the girl I thought I was in love with. And with opiates, I am constipated for the next day and itch lol
Ironically, you think you are getting closer to finding truth, but you get farther away from objective reality (which is where I believe peace and happiness lie)
Dude trips change your life.... They may not immediately or in obvious ways, but they def change your life and beliefs atleast IME
-------------------- You know, just sometimes in between the first cigarette with coffee in the morning to that 400th glass of cornershop piss at 3am--you do sometimes look at yourself and think--this is fantastic. I'm in heaven. -Bernard Black
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 2 days
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: kakashi68]
#18802993 - 09/05/13 11:41 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
kakashi68 said:
Quote:
topdog82 said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: These are well-chosen quotes, but any of the truths that an opium user can discern based on these quotes, can also be discerned with psychedelics, only opiates are enslaving and psychedelics are liberating. Freedom is the singular feature that determines my valuation of a substance. Eternity Itself seem to have qualifications of Heavens, Hells, or the transcendence of these extremes altogether. I prefer the writings of those who espouse psychedelics over the ones who espouse the alleged virtues of narcotics, like Crowley, De Quincy, Coleridge, JD Morrison. There may be exquisite eloquence in these writers, but their language is enveloped in a gray aura, so-to-speak. I prefer lucid luminescence and upliftingly sublime emotions, not sweet blissfulness terminating in darkness. I'm not versed in Huxley's writings on opiate, but I rather enjoy his work on mescaline. "I've been down so goddamned long, that it looks like up to me..." - JDM
I honestly feel that neither psyches or opiates hold long term gains. You trip balls...then a week later its like it never happened
Most effective to find truth in clarity, but thats purely my opinion
I think we have all had those moments where we did a strong drug (opiates, benzos, alc, amp, mdma, and LSD/DMT) and we think we have found the best thing since sliced bread. A source of all the happiness you could look for! and then the "catch" becomes apparent. Coming down from LSD I have said multiple times "fuck everything I was doing before. Tomorrow morning, my life will forever be changed". And that has never really happened. For opiates "This is the purest bliss I have ever experienced" and for MDMA "Why cant everyone b like the people at this rave. So nice and loving". In either of those cases I either realized that the only reason I thought people loved me was because I was rolling balls and so was the girl I thought I was in love with. And with opiates, I am constipated for the next day and itch lol
Ironically, you think you are getting closer to finding truth, but you get farther away from objective reality (which is where I believe peace and happiness lie)
Dude trips change your life.... They may not immediately or in obvious ways, but they def change your life and beliefs atleast IME
I guess I cant speak for everyone. But That was just my experience
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: topdog82] 2
#18812356 - 09/07/13 05:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Substances do not facilitate everyone's Awakening. LSD did Awaken me, and in the wake of that Awakening, it changed my very life, my values, my choices. I gave up thinking I was going to become a medical doctor because the psychedelics softened my formerly cold logical mind, and I hated killing animals for dissection. I gave up eating animals too. I wanted to help people, I wasn't interested in making lots of money, and I realized that the medical mind-set was utterly materialistic. Having glimpsed more subtle planes of Reality, I changed my major to philosophy, graduated with a BA degree in it. Then I got into a Christian seminary to learn what I could about Christ. Finally, not being interested or culturally disposed to become a minister, I headed off to graduate school to study psychology because I needed a livelihood. I have continued to use psychedelics for 42 years in various capacities. I have stopped at times, and I have abused them at times in the past. They fueled a passion to understand, and while I was attempting to understand, I was transformed into a more empathic and compassionate person which I was able to realize/actualize by counseling adolescents for almost 30 years. Meanwhile, I have explored many different paths for increasing gnosis, wisdom, and compassion.
I didn't discover MDMA until the late 90s, and from a psychotherapist's point of view, I can say with authority that one can learn in 3 hours what it takes most people months or even years to acquire through traditional therapy. Opiates are pain-killers, pure and simple. That is their only legitimate use IMO, and anything else is about escapism and addiction, both of which are forms of slavery and diametrically opposed to freedom. Opiates do not facilitate the process of Awakening is the bottom line.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 2 days
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Substances do not facilitate everyone's Awakening. LSD did Awaken me, and in the wake of that Awakening, it changed my very life, my values, my choices. I gave up thinking I was going to become a medical doctor because the psychedelics softened my formerly cold logical mind, and I hated killing animals for dissection. I gave up eating animals too. I wanted to help people, I wasn't interested in making lots of money, and I realized that the medical mind-set was utterly materialistic. Having glimpsed more subtle planes of Reality, I changed my major to philosophy, graduated with a BA degree in it. Then I got into a Christian seminary to learn what I could about Christ. Finally, not being interested or culturally disposed to become a minister, I headed off to graduate school to study psychology because I needed a livelihood. I have continued to use psychedelics for 42 years in various capacities. I have stopped at times, and I have abused them at times in the past. They fueled a passion to understand, and while I was attempting to understand, I was transformed into a more empathic and compassionate person which I was able to realize/actualize by counseling adolescents for almost 30 years. Meanwhile, I have explored many different paths for increasing gnosis, wisdom, and compassion.
I didn't discover MDMA until the late 90s, and from a psychotherapist's point of view, I can say with authority that one can learn in 3 hours what it takes most people months or even years to acquire through traditional therapy. Opiates are pain-killers, pure and simple. That is their only legitimate use IMO, and anything else is about escapism and addiction, both of which are forms of slavery and diametrically opposed to freedom. Opiates do not facilitate the process of Awakening is the bottom line.
Glad to get your take on it. I feel that I always had a tendency to not be materialistic, but LSD kind of reminded me of that
I honestly didnt get much from mdma in terms of long term changes. But I defintaely can see how it would help it relaionship therapy etc
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Opiates do not facilitate the process of Awakening is the bottom line.
They may not facilitate the process for you, but I have read many testimonials from people who had gone through the process of addiction and subsequent recovery, and in many cases the process did help induce a sort of spiritual awakening and change of their life for the better. It's not so much the act of ingesting the opiate that facilitates the process of Awakening, in other words, but the act of experiencing the darkness that is addiction/slavery to Desire and learning how to overcome it that yields transcendence for some. For others, it may lead to jail and overdose. But such is the nature of wishing to take the fast-track to Enlightenment via syringe. 
The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom. --William Blake
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: deCypher]
#18813429 - 09/07/13 11:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Nobody knows how it is for everybody.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: deCypher]
#18813480 - 09/07/13 11:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think you're probably right. It's unfortunate that some people have to hit bottom before they rebound, and it's worse when they don't rebound.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: These are well-chosen quotes, but any of the truths that an opium user can discern based on these quotes, can also be discerned with psychedelics, only opiates are enslaving and psychedelics are liberating. Freedom is the singular feature that determines my valuation of a substance. Eternity Itself seem to have qualifications of Heavens, Hells, or the transcendence of these extremes altogether. I prefer the writings of those who espouse psychedelics over the ones who espouse the alleged virtues of narcotics, like Crowley, De Quincy, Coleridge, JD Morrison. There may be exquisite eloquence in these writers, but their language is enveloped in a gray aura, so-to-speak. I prefer lucid luminescence and upliftingly sublime emotions, not sweet blissfulness terminating in darkness. I'm not versed in Huxley's writings on opiate, but I rather enjoy his work on mescaline. "I've been down so goddamned long, that it looks like up to me..." - JDM
Not to mention, for the vast majority of heroin users, no such mind manifesting experiences occur. IMHO, unless you're already an artist on the level of DeQuincy or Coleridge, ya just ain't gonna find such experiences on heroin. That probably excludes all of us here, so use psychedelics instead
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:
pyrate999 said:
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MarkostheGnostic said: I prefer lucid luminescence and upliftingly sublime emotions, not sweet blissfulness terminating in darkness.
Interesting you put it that way. What do you think the difference is between people choosing one view from the other?
Like the Jim Morrison quote, I am reminded of a parallel by way of metaphor, namely nitrogen narcosis, AKA 'raptures of the deep.' I was a scuba diver for a few years in Miami, and you have to take a training course, pass written and water certification tests, without which people don't risk selling you compressed air, or take you out on dive trips. Anyway, if one exceeds one's designated 'bottom time,' which means just so many minutes at increasing depths, the nitrogen that you're breathing (air is 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, and 1% other gases) begins to have an intoxicating effect on your body. You develop the inebriating effects of intoxication, and divers have been known to swim deeper and deeper. 130 feet is the maximum on air. Deeper dives require other gases. But a basic confusion occurs, or a death-wish sets in. I don't know because at those depths, the dead diver doesn't come back up and if he did, he couldn't tell us what he was thinking, being dead and all.
People get confused in life just as the diver with nitrogen narcosis. They begin to plumb depths which will inevitably result in premature death. "I've been down so goddamned long, it looks like up to me..." High states of consciousness may be accompanied by bliss, but in Buddhism, which understands these conditions, one wants to move past bliss into clarity, Vajra consciousness. Attachment to blisses of various kinds is where people lose their way, just as the diver does. They pursue more and more intense blisses even though that is what death feels like under certain conditions. It certainly 'high' on the pleasure-pain continuum compared to the Buddhist who self-immolates himself. But higher consciousness transcends the entire pleasure-pain continuum to arrive at a condition of unification from which that dualistic continuum emerges. The opiate addict simply becomes addicted to bliss, even though bliss is the mask of death. It's a Thanatos-Eros, death-life, Muladhara-Svadhisthana chakra, anal-genital constellation. It's about pre-personal, instinctual, regressive tendencies, not personal or trans-personal, intuitive, progressive tendencies. In fact people who confuse the blissful opiate conditions with the word 'high,' demonstrate what Ken Wilber brilliantly called the "Pre-Trans Fallacy." Being on narcotics is being 'low,' not 'high,' on several levels, including the predominating chakra-motivation, the regression towards formerly intrauterine existence (Freud's "oceanic feelings"), and the reduction of moral development commensurate with infantile, pre-personal stages of development. The 'I want what I want when I want it' mentality of a junkie is infantile primary process material, with no ability to defer gratification. A raging baby in an adult body, with no moral development is a era danger to self and others IMO.
Intuitively, I think of heroin addiction in a Freudian manner.... I suspect many of these people are sexually miserable and are using these turn off drugs to solve their sexual hangups by removing sex from the equation all together.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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extreme


Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 9,340
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Astrodelic]
#18814283 - 09/08/13 08:18 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Midnight_Toker said: Opiates make me depressed and depression makes me philosophical.
Quote:
deCypher said: I've had the (mis)fortune of having become deeply acquainted with heroin in the past. All I will say is that any experience that is so significant in making an impact upon one's psyche, brain and body will lead to a new, or at least a changed, perspective on life. As far as specifics, the following gentlemen say it better than I could, and probably in fewer words:
(specifically about opiates:)
Opium teaches only one thing, which is that aside from physical suffering, there is nothing real. --Andre Malraux
A man who has once experienced the drug-life finds it difficult to put up with the inanity of normal existence. He has become wise with the wisdom of despair. --Aleister Crowley
Who lives longer? the man who takes heroin for two years and dies, or a man who lives on roast beef, water and potatoes 'till 95? One passes his 24 months in eternity. All the years of the beefeater are lived only in time. --Aldous Huxley
It is difficult to live without opium after having known it because it is difficult, after knowing opium, to take earth seriously. And unless one is a saint, it is difficult to live without taking earth seriously. --Jean Cocteau
(about pleasure in general:)
If suffering brings wisdom, I would wish to be less wise. --William Butler Yeats
Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it. --Thomas Jefferson
Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure. --Scott Adams
I can understand why some people don't get philosophical with it, but I tend to think philosophically on any drug. GABAergics the least, but even those I think about things and why my care levels have dropped. If anything makes me truly "not care" or whatever it's benzos and alcohol and stuff. It takes a lot to shut my mind off... on opioids I'm still pretty conscious of most things and I still enjoy thinking about things. Shit, thinking about things is even easier because it doesn't hurt as much (some of your quotes reflect this stance, like the bolded ones).
One of the only times I was able to get a heroin nod recently I wrote about a page in my journal. It's pretty hard to read but I was linking a lot of things metaphorically and even reading it after the fact I thought it seemed pretty creative. So yea even for non-psychedelic drugs, from meth to heroin, I'm always paying attention to the shift in my own consciousness and how that affects my mood and attitude towards the outside world.
Quote:
Astrodelic said: opium is more philosophical that heroin in my observational opinion.
I don't think it's much of a deep philosophical drug though...as stated it's more of a dreamstate...you may gain some insight but it's not comparable to psychedelics...it is poetic though. Some of my best, most like poetry came from when I was experimenting with opiates (never heroin specifically, I was already having enough problems with what I was doing).
I don't think the class of drugs is worth messing with. The problems outweigh any, negligable at best, benefits.
^^^^ Hell yea that's what I'm talking about 
I don't think they have a negative impact on philosophy from that "dreamer" standpoint, but they don't exactly increase your critical thinking or anything like that
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extreme


Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 9,340
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: extreme]
#18814554 - 09/08/13 10:11 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I just noticed GNR being discussed and I wanted to note that they are my least favorite band I've ever heard. I'd rather stick a fork in my ears.
OK I decided I'll post this journal entry I wrote one night while nodding out. As noted in my other post there's a lot of metaphors and inside things that not everyone is meant to understand. V is a friend of mine. Random #s are mg doses for the junk. I know this all isn't completely pertinent to the topic but I just feel like posting it. I found it interesting while writing that my style was definitely a little different though than on any other drug, or sober.
5:10 AM Friday Morning 6/21/13 85 mins (I usually free write and try and fill a page as fast as I can.. usually only ~15 minutes on average)
It took me the whole day... very all not quite as planned. I wanted to just eat some candy, but with the only new addition being even more dope than that, it was consensual to consume only 24 hours after a spiteful sub. Open 4 times, scratch that 8 times, scratch that 11 times, & with key in other hand - scooped the simultaneously leading crush-jobbed vinegar globules of a tan tint. Sniff. Uhh... Let's go to generic tobacco store subbed, as I did want to do that. I got half of what I was looking for. But I guess some railways runnin' through there would be a little extreme V & I returned to generic hometown subbed after grabbing air freshener. Here there were ways for rails, and we each rode one for a quality control check. Outside we tossed around the pigskin, a little sore from the day before (1st day working out again).
[breaking wall of text]
A little humid & the sun turned that a little sweaty too, though now I'm hearing rain trickle & land so gently. Day humidity in this state = no bueno. A little nighttime drizzle to clear the air is always welcomed. Back to right before V left, we went inside to see one more pair of rails disappear. At this point I either did one or none more until the evening, when it showed up again it was still pretty heavy... 340 or something crazy. Little did I know less than 8 hours later all that weight rested somewhere right in between my eyes. Not until I worked it down to 150 before getting serious about my last pair did I really hate that vinegar stench. Like 90 up right for the 2nd to last sniff finally broke through. Holy shit, which describes why I'm at 70 minutes now on this page. And still shooting up. 4 words in 5 minutes. Yea I'm fighting nod nod, the 6:30 AM nod, the melatonod, & the stoned nod. As soon as I can fill this page I can close my eyes, I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN DO IT RIGHT Heat won finals, bed time.
* the caps and extra spaces there was to fill space I had like 2 lines left to go to fill the page but nothing was coming to mind to right about I just wanted to nod/sleep.
This was the first journal entry I made in like 4.5 months (I also noted that at the top of the paper by the date). Not super philosophical content but when I write journals for myself they are ways for me to cope with the day and life and stuff, whether it be existential crises or just little personal things everyone goes through. Or I might be fully content and I'll just write about my day and the fun things I did. Apparently my day that day was pretty chill (no shit, the dope helped lol).
Well if anyone reads all that hopefully it was semi-enjoyable. As I mentioned already though, I tend to write a lot more ambiguously and metaphorically on H apparently than other times. My other writings just kinda flow. I think on dope I spend more time thinking of ways to reword what I want to say in ways that most people wouldn't make that statement. It may just end up as a confusing jumbled mess but that's why it's in my personal journal and not in a published and edited piece I'm writing for everyone. I had fun
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: extreme]
#18814991 - 09/08/13 12:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I can't use psychedelics due to physical problems, but I can sure use heroin. As to philosophical content, not really (wouldn't say I find any of those quotes relevant to my heroin use, if anything psychedelic experiences made it more difficult to live within normal states of consciousness) but it sure is a pleasant way to spend an afternoon.
And the Crowley book is great, shame he didn't write any other novels because his poetry sucks ass.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: CosmicJoke]
#18815226 - 09/08/13 01:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Intuitively, I think of heroin addiction in a Freudian manner.... I suspect many of these people are sexually miserable and are using these turn off drugs to solve their sexual hangups by removing sex from the equation all together.
What about people like my ex-girlfriend, whom I dumped in '76 for her ridiculous promiscuity (but whom I dreamed about weekly until about 5 years ago when she found me through someone who had come across a Shroomery post I made). She became a stripper, a hooker, a gang-bang 'old lady' for the Hell's Angels, a pimp, and the owner of an escort service. She began to get skin-popped when she was still in college at age 18. She's had a lifetime of heroin use. During a enlightening phone conversation a few years ago, she confided how her older sister began to molest her as a very young girl. Precociously sexualized, she got raped at knife-point while hitch-hiking. Then, as if to recapitulate the trauma, perhaps to get mastery over it, dorm mates told me they saw her hitch-hiking in her night gown at 1:00 am. It seems she used the heroin to create further dissociation from behaviors that she continued to capitalize on. A real study in contradiction. She is also diagnosed as Borderline Personality Disorder, which does have psychoanalytic etiology as failure to bond with primary caregivers. I don't think bonding goes with prostitution very well.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Intuitively, I think of heroin addiction in a Freudian manner.... I suspect many of these people are sexually miserable and are using these turn off drugs to solve their sexual hangups by removing sex from the equation all together.
What about people like my ex-girlfriend, whom I dumped in '76 for her ridiculous promiscuity (but whom I dreamed about weekly until about 5 years ago when she found me through someone who had come across a Shroomery post I made). She became a stripper, a hooker, a gang-bang 'old lady' for the Hell's Angels, a pimp, and the owner of an escort service. She began to get skin-popped when she was still in college at age 18. She's had a lifetime of heroin use. During a enlightening phone conversation a few years ago, she confided how her older sister began to molest her as a very young girl. Precociously sexualized, she got raped at knife-point while hitch-hiking. Then, as if to recapitulate the trauma, perhaps to get mastery over it, dorm mates told me they saw her hitch-hiking in her night gown at 1:00 am. It seems she used the heroin to create further dissociation from behaviors that she continued to capitalize on. A real study in contradiction. She is also diagnosed as Borderline Personality Disorder, which does have psychoanalytic etiology as failure to bond with primary caregivers. I don't think bonding goes with prostitution very well.
Have you considered the possibility that the stripping and prostitution was done largely to support her heroin habit, rather than the heroin being used to distance herself from the shame of behaving like a compulsive danger slut?
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: CosmicJoke]
#18815888 - 09/08/13 04:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I can't tell what came first, but the early sexualization started at 3-5 years of age. The family had money, lots of money, millions. She was once proposed to by a multi-millionaire and declined his offer. She could have continued to buy smack while living in opulence (she loves riding horses as well as Horse). There is something about 'The Life' that defies all logic.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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extreme


Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 9,340
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MarkostheGnostic said: I can't tell what came first, but the early sexualization started at 3-5 years of age. The family had money, lots of money, millions. She was once proposed to by a multi-millionaire and declined his offer. She could have continued to buy smack while living in opulence (she loves riding horses as well as Horse). There is something about 'The Life' that defies all logic.
Now that this thread is slightly off topic (I don't know that it was ever really on topic) but I'll comment that I was in this position recently and turned it down Like the girl tried bribing me with money and I really don't know her that well. It wasn't THAT outright, but when I mentioned my skepticism for a relationship she kinda added that as if it would change things. Some people just can't be bought. To be honest though even though she was cool to hang out with I have a little different standards for a relationship. That bothered her because she really liked me. Maybe later?
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: CosmicJoke]
#18816428 - 09/08/13 07:24 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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CosmicJoke said: Intuitively, I think of heroin addiction in a Freudian manner.... I suspect many of these people are sexually miserable and are using these turn off drugs to solve their sexual hangups by removing sex from the equation all together.
At least personally speaking I've never been sexually abused, and had a healthy and active sex life before getting real bad on dope. It was an amazing aphrodisiac, at least in the beginning--it permitted me to have sex for hours upon hours while experiencing waves of pleasurable euphoria. Over time, however, it lowers testosterone levels and one finds one's interest in sex diminishing to the point of non-existence. Of course at that point one couldn't care less so long as one has steady access to dope. 
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MarkostheGnostic said: She began to get skin-popped when she was still in college at age 18.
I've heard old dope-head literature talk about skin-popping but AFAIK it's non-existent in the modern heroin scene. Why would you want to risk causing abscesses and a slower route of administration than ye olde mainline into the vein?
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: deCypher]
#18816664 - 09/08/13 08:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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deCypher said:
At least personally speaking I've never been sexually abused, and had a healthy and active sex life before getting real bad on dope. It was an amazing aphrodisiac, at least in the beginning--it permitted me to have sex for hours upon hours while experiencing waves of pleasurable euphoria. Over time, however, it lowers testosterone levels and one finds one's interest in sex diminishing to the point of non-existence. Of course at that point one couldn't care less so long as one has steady access to dope. 
Well, without a doubt my suspicions are oversimplified, and ignore the aspect of addiction as a disease of exposure. But there is undoubtably some symbiotic relationship between sex and heroin, if only that junk often kills the addict's sex drive and leaves them with no eroticism except in their fantasy.
Perhaps you were this totally emotionally healthy well adjusted being with no sexual hang-ups that just so happened to get addicted to heroin, or perhaps those sexual hangups weren't particularly conspicuous amongst a legion of other problems 
Forgive me if I'm somewhat skeptical. I'm of the opinion that the intensity of pleasure produced by opiates is directly proportional to the degree of neurosis one experiences. Painkillers and tranquilizers just aren't that inherently pleasurable to everybody. Some people find intense satisfaction often throughout their day in total sobriety.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: CosmicJoke]
#18816692 - 09/08/13 08:41 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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CosmicJoke said: Perhaps you were this totally emotionally healthy well adjusted being with no sexual hang-ups that just so happened to get addicted to heroin, or perhaps those sexual hangups weren't particularly conspicuous amongst a legion of other problems 
No, I definitely wasn't a completely well adjusted perfect being--the main reason I suspect I got hooked was because I was pretty prone to depression and social anxiety at the time. Opiates completely cured this (at least, while I was high)--they made conversing with strangers at a party a complete breeze and any negative emotions I was feeling wholly vanish. Unfortunately, all these problems came back with a vengeance after I came down from them, and so the decision to redose was made that much easier.
Honestly I think the majority of users who get addicted to heroin and other opiates do so because of depression rather than sexual hang-ups.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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