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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Sse]
#18786555 - 09/01/13 07:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I preferred ingesting or smoking the big pharma pills seems a lot safer but I imagine smoking heroin/pills could be overdone easily
Imagination is just that, and it is not grounded in reality. Oxycodone is currently the #1 problem epidemiologically speaking, and it is in no way "easy" to overcome. If someone is predisposed to use opiates, they are equally predisposed to its addiction, and to the corollary defense mechanism of denial.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Memories



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It's amazing how much rampant denial goes on amongst opiate addicts. Most junkies i meet claim they just use their scripts and illegally acquired opioids for legitamate pain management as the result of some accident or condition.
It's pretty interesting watching someone go into the same bullshit spiel while they repeatedly poke the few spots of their body with usable veins left in hopes of getting the speedball into their bloodstream.
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Sse
Saṃsāra

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I meant overdone as in O.D from, I haven't seen it happen from first hand experience. But I imagine it wouldn't be hard to do, especially if you got an unusually high quality heroin.
Everyone I've known to have O.D'd was from injection.
Only used it when it was around(which was a lot) but never withdrew or had any dependence issues; actually never had any dependence issue with anything I've taken. Probably due to the rude awakening I experienced.
Only opiate I will touch and I actually prefer to any of the synthetic forms, is kratom. Doubt I will ever touch another synthetic drug; for recreation or for self-medicinal purposes.
My preferred drug was on the other side of the spectrum; stimulants. That's been many moons ago though.
Good ole cannabis, kratom, kava are my go to meds though I can't afford kava anymore, kratom either... I'm gonna have to plant a tree I think
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
Edited by Sse (09/01/13 09:01 PM)
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lolwut
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Memories]
#18787170 - 09/01/13 09:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Memories said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: sweet blissfulness terminating in darkness.
I think this describes opiates quite well. When i was a heavy user in the past, i accepted the immenent future of increasingly pervasive agony and soul-shattering despair in turn for that quick escape into the warm, thoughtless bliss that is opiates.
I guess it's true that Every Junkie's Like A Setting Sun
-------------------- Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth, and taste...
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Memories



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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: lolwut]
#18787301 - 09/01/13 09:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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At my worst, i knew i was reaching the point where stealing and/or dealing was going to be necessary to keep up the habit, and i was deep enough to where this knowledge didn't even deter me. I accepted the idea of using with reckless abandon until i was either locked up or went to some full treatment rehab.
Luckily, i moved continents right as the withdrawals were really getting bad.
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Sse
Saṃsāra

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What happened to most people I know, is they started with ingesting low level pain killers, vicoden, percocet's, morphine(rare). Whichever they could find, slowly the amount they needed would increase without thinking much about any consequence. Then one day those blue little 30mg oxies came around, people were ingesting those. They were very affordable. They began ingesting more and more, then they began smoking them. Once they began smoking them severe addiction began. Nothing else was satisfying, they had to smoke them, which burned through them quick, faster high, higher high, less duration. Then they needed more and more and more.
That began their life of constant every waking moment needing to get their fix and then the game began as pills became more expensive. Constantly having to hustle whatever necessary... mostly by selling pills or finding people hook ups for pills and charging extra or getting some pills from the deal. Then after a while of that they began shooting up. Once they shot up, that became the preferred method. Addiction grew stronger the game continued with hustling to get their oxy.
Slowly deciding the worth of their acquaintances/people they were hooking up with their connection to skim off of , "hmm ya I would lose that friend for 300$". Eventually got to the point where they ripped off everyone they were hooking up. Next step was to go to their longer term friends. Sneakily stealing from people that trusted them. By this time they weren't able to afford oxy any more, the only other option being heroin. Fuck everyone else, I need to stop these horrible withdrawals from happening, whatever it takes, who ever I fuck over or manipulate. Girls began whoring themselves out, and I wouldn't be surprised if the guys were too, one of their dealers was known as BBG(big black and gay) and I've heard of that being an acceptable method of payment.
If you would have asked them a few years earlier if they foresaw any of that coming, I highly doubt they did. Shit just evolved gradually. The drug really took ahold of them and that's all that mattered.
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
Edited by Sse (09/01/13 10:24 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: lolwut]
#18788010 - 09/02/13 01:47 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
lolwut said:
Quote:
Memories said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: sweet blissfulness terminating in darkness.
I think this describes opiates quite well. When i was a heavy user in the past, i accepted the immenent future of increasingly pervasive agony and soul-shattering despair in turn for that quick escape into the warm, thoughtless bliss that is opiates.
I guess it's true that Every Junkie's Like A Setting Sun
I listen to Neil a ton these days.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dustinthewind13
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: lolwut]
#18790905 - 09/02/13 05:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I ended up not buying heroin. Although I yearn to feel good, since I've been very depressed lately, I am sort of glad that I didn't fuck with my brains reword system. Heroin is more for rock stars or the rich, if you ask me. I feel that if I cannot afford to be chronic addict, it is best to not do it at all. Of course, I'll very likely occasionally treat myself to the escapism drugs provide. Maybe when I'm old and have accumulated enough money, I'll move to a country where it is legal and spend my final days in euphoric bliss, given that I do not end my life as a result of the depression I'm trying to escape taking drugs.
-------------------- "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "A room without books is like a body without a soul." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson
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Sse
Saṃsāra

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I was in a pretty bad place for a while and what had helped me get through was cannabis, kratom, kava. Mostly kratom and cannabis. Kratom can really do wonders for times when you just feel like shit and need a change of headspace. I think it has been very effective at bringing me back towards equilibrium.
There are some really nice strains out there that have a very unique energized opiate quality that stabilize the mood from my experience. The trick was just finding the right dosage/strain for my liking. I really owe a lot to that tree.
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
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Icelander
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Sse]
#18792080 - 09/02/13 09:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Did you find any that don't cause nausea? That was my problem with it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Sse
Saṃsāra

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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Icelander]
#18792225 - 09/02/13 09:39 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I run into that problem too. For me, to counteract that, I take it with a really big healthy meal. I noticed also that if I filter out all the leaf powder that it can reduce the nausea greatly, but you do lose some of the alkaloids that aren't water soluble; still a great experience. I took it like that for a very long time. The combination of a large meal and filtering equals no nausea for me, now a days just the large meal is enough. Taking it with milk and honey seems to help also. And of course even just a puff or two of cannabis knocks out all nausea for me.
I prefer the green Malaysian strain, I don't get as much nausea on it as I did with maeng da, which is a red variety I think.
Also, I prepare mine by boiling on high for 20 minutes, reducing to just below high, if it begins boiling the powder to the side of the pot to quickly. I'm usually watching or peaking in every few minutes to keep the powder from collecting on the edges of the pot.
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
Edited by Sse (09/02/13 09:49 PM)
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Icelander
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Sse]
#18792284 - 09/02/13 09:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks for the info, I might just try it again.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Sse
Saṃsāra

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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Icelander]
#18792317 - 09/02/13 09:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Np, with the green stains they can be a little overly stimulating at certain doses, especially at the very onset. Then after an hour or two it settles into something more synergetic and more like an opiate. Low does in the tsp and under range can be like a nice strong morning coffee but with an opiate/euphoric twist. 1.5-2 tsp may be more overly stimulating, 2.5-3 is what I find to be best these days. Kratom alkaloids are weird, the more you up the dosage after a certain point, the less stimulating and the more opiating. The trick for me was finding that perfect level that creates the best of both experiences. The green malay is nice once you find your sweet spot and can last quite a while, upwards of 7-8 hours.
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
Edited by Sse (09/02/13 10:16 PM)
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dustinthewind13
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Icelander]
#18792503 - 09/02/13 10:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Did you find any that don't cause nausea? That was my problem with it.
Take some Diphenhydramine. That stuff always helps.
-------------------- "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "A room without books is like a body without a soul." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson
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lolwut
bad motherfucker


Registered: 08/14/10
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Quote:
dustinthewind13 said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Did you find any that don't cause nausea? That was my problem with it.
Take some Diphenhydramine. That stuff always helps.
Yeah take the whole pack
-------------------- Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth, and taste...
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Sse
Saṃsāra

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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: lolwut]
#18792659 - 09/02/13 11:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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used to be fun in jail, don't snort it though hehe burns like nothing else... except 2c-d.
edit: I forgot to mention, I also put a little under a tablespoon of butter in my kratom and some pure peppermint oil drops
Edited by Sse (09/02/13 11:59 PM)
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Sse]
#18793337 - 09/03/13 07:30 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
dustinthewind13 said: I ended up not buying heroin. Although I yearn to feel good, since I've been very depressed lately, I am sort of glad that I didn't fuck with my brains reword system. Heroin is more for rock stars or the rich, if you ask me. I feel that if I cannot afford to be chronic addict, it is best to not do it at all. Of course, I'll very likely occasionally treat myself to the escapism drugs provide. Maybe when I'm old and have accumulated enough money, I'll move to a country where it is legal and spend my final days in euphoric bliss, given that I do not end my life as a result of the depression I'm trying to escape taking drugs.

The healthy choice, no doubt.
Quote:
Sse said: If you would have asked them a few years earlier if they foresaw any of that coming, I highly doubt they did. Shit just evolved gradually. The drug really took ahold of them and that's all that mattered.
Yeah, opiate addiction definitely sneaks up on you. The lack of a hangover (in fact more of an euphoric afterglow) and apparent lack of negative side effects compared to other addictive drugs like amphetamines and cocaine contributes to the user feeling as if the substance is incredibly benign, and of course the psychological addiction helps one rationalize that anyone who brings up the negatives of opiates simply doesn't know what they're talking about. "I'm not a junkie like those guys... I can stop at any time."
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Memories



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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Icelander]
#18794186 - 09/03/13 12:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Did you find any that don't cause nausea? That was my problem with it.
You can easily get antiemetics which subdue nausea and vomiting. Also, I find that nausea is far more prevalent when you have hardly used opiates. After using them more frequently and not exceeding a comfortable dose, I've never had a problem.
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Icelander
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Re: Philosophical content of Heroin? [Re: Memories]
#18794197 - 09/03/13 12:41 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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topdog82
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:
pyrate999 said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: I prefer lucid luminescence and upliftingly sublime emotions, not sweet blissfulness terminating in darkness.
Interesting you put it that way. What do you think the difference is between people choosing one view from the other?
Like the Jim Morrison quote, I am reminded of a parallel by way of metaphor, namely nitrogen narcosis, AKA 'raptures of the deep.' I was a scuba diver for a few years in Miami, and you have to take a training course, pass written and water certification tests, without which people don't risk selling you compressed air, or take you out on dive trips. Anyway, if one exceeds one's designated 'bottom time,' which means just so many minutes at increasing depths, the nitrogen that you're breathing (air is 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, and 1% other gases) begins to have an intoxicating effect on your body. You develop the inebriating effects of intoxication, and divers have been known to swim deeper and deeper. 130 feet is the maximum on air. Deeper dives require other gases. But a basic confusion occurs, or a death-wish sets in. I don't know because at those depths, the dead diver doesn't come back up and if he did, he couldn't tell us what he was thinking, being dead and all.
People get confused in life just as the diver with nitrogen narcosis. They begin to plumb depths which will inevitably result in premature death. "I've been down so goddamned long, it looks like up to me..." High states of consciousness may be accompanied by bliss, but in Buddhism, which understands these conditions, one wants to move past bliss into clarity, Vajra consciousness. Attachment to blisses of various kinds is where people lose their way, just as the diver does. They pursue more and more intense blisses even though that is what death feels like under certain conditions. It certainly 'high' on the pleasure-pain continuum compared to the Buddhist who self-immolates himself. But higher consciousness transcends the entire pleasure-pain continuum to arrive at a condition of unification from which that dualistic continuum emerges. The opiate addict simply becomes addicted to bliss, even though bliss is the mask of death. It's a Thanatos-Eros, death-life, Muladhara-Svadhisthana chakra, anal-genital constellation. It's about pre-personal, instinctual, regressive tendencies, not personal or trans-personal, intuitive, progressive tendencies. In fact people who confuse the blissful opiate conditions with the word 'high,' demonstrate what Ken Wilber brilliantly called the "Pre-Trans Fallacy." Being on narcotics is being 'low,' not 'high,' on several levels, including the predominating chakra-motivation, the regression towards formerly intrauterine existence (Freud's "oceanic feelings"), and the reduction of moral development commensurate with infantile, pre-personal stages of development. The 'I want what I want when I want it' mentality of a junkie is infantile primary process material, with no ability to defer gratification. A raging baby in an adult body, with no moral development is a era danger to self and others IMO.

your post made my day. Thanks for the knowledge/insight!
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