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Offlineblessed

Registered: 07/16/11
Posts: 1,086
Loc: ation: Tasmania Flag
Last seen: 11 days, 3 hours
Ownership
    #18760849 - 08/26/13 06:29 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Hello All

My question is this,

What it the true meaning of "owning" something, someone, or anything else for that matter?

My dictionary says that to "own" is to emphasize possession, but what makes something truly ours (i mean 100%)?
Could it in fact be, that it is not really ours, but at this present moment we have it in our hands (we possess it)?

Can anyone truly own something or not?

e.g I find $5 on the ground and pick it up. Is it now mine or does it still belong to the person that lost/drop it?


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Ownership [Re: blessed]
    #18760950 - 08/26/13 06:51 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Spend it and find out.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledustinthewind13
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Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 5,219
Loc: Being a burden
Re: Ownership [Re: blessed]
    #18761118 - 08/26/13 07:38 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blessed said:
e.g I find $5 on the ground and pick it up. Is it now mine or does it still belong to the person that lost/drop it?






--------------------
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,252
Re: Ownership [Re: blessed]
    #18761147 - 08/26/13 07:47 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

There truly are physical relationships of possession and there truly are opinions on where things belong. That's about all the truth I can work out.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Offlinebalanced
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Registered: 05/16/11
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Last seen: 9 years, 3 days
Re: Ownership [Re: Rahz]
    #18761265 - 08/26/13 08:23 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Ownership is when others allow you to do what you will with a particular object, be it alive or dead, idea, or place. If anything infringes upon your ability to exert your will onto it, then you do not 'truly' own it.

Physics hates this concocted idea of ownership.

We're just playing with semantics here; discussing an idea created by humans. It's too vague and depends on how each person understands relationships.

So I guess to answer your question; I can't see a true ownership, unless it's inside someone's head. That, I can understand.


--------------------
If I have seen a little further,
it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
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Re: Ownership [Re: Rahz]
    #18761279 - 08/26/13 08:29 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
There truly are physical relationships of possession and there truly are opinions on where things belong. That's about all the truth I can work out.




You are gonna be fun come martial law time.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Offlinehandwaveee
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Registered: 07/23/12
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Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Ownership [Re: balanced]
    #18761280 - 08/26/13 08:29 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

yeah I was too rash the other day. Well I guess what I mean is certain things in nature can be ascribed to the concept of owning. A lion may have behaviors that we can say oh he owns this territory.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Ownership [Re: handwaveee]
    #18761286 - 08/26/13 08:31 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

handwaveee said:
yeah I was too rash the other day. Well I guess what I mean is certain things in nature can be ascribed to the concept of owning. A lion may have behaviors that we can say oh he owns this territory.




My cat owns me, but has finally learned not to mark territory inside.  Outside, have at it.  That took a while though.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Offlineblessed

Registered: 07/16/11
Posts: 1,086
Loc: ation: Tasmania Flag
Last seen: 11 days, 3 hours
Re: Ownership [Re: balanced]
    #18765052 - 08/27/13 05:34 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Spend it and find out.



Too late :grin:


Dustinthewind13,
Cool add, made me laugh. Something tells me when the tables are turned, the original ruffles guy will be ruffled at not be giving a ruffle to eat :smile:
It's a ruffle world out there :grin:

Quote:

Rahz said:
There truly are physical relationships of possession and there truly are opinions on where things belong. That's about all the truth I can work out.



I agree, true ownership and what we think we own or have the right to own are not the same thing. I am going somewhere with this OP but first wanted to establish true ownership and then go from there.

Quote:

balanced said:
So I guess to answer your question; I can't see a true ownership, unless it's inside someone's head. That, I can understand.



It does seems to me that we don't truly own anything. But then one could ask, are our thoughts in our minds ours as well?. For this would imply that we, that is, i made my own brain.
Instead that with the brain i have (been given) i can think. Just like the fish that swims in the water, the water was not made by the fish, but the fish is able to swim and chose which way to go within the waters.  So it does look like we don't truly own anything, for to truly own anything, one can and always will be able to do whatever they please with it, and there's nothing that can stop the owner doing what they will with what they own.

As far as our human understanding of ownership, it's not really true ownership but more, everyone else (for the most part) is ok with it being yours (for now).

Remember that $5 i found, had the person that dropped it saw me find it he would say thats mine, and if i believed him, i would give it back to him. But here's the thing, as the man who lost the $5 and now has it back walks into the bank, he reads a sign on the wall of the bank. The Government has requested / demanded that all moneys be returned to the banks, as they (the Government) is introducing a cashless system that all must be part of. So in a sense, it was never mine, even though i found it, it never truly belonged to the guy that lost/dropped it, it was all the while the property of the government. They just allow us to hold it, but it's not ours.

I have something silly i want to share with you all.

I was working in a supermarket one day and on this particular day, i had asked a co-worker to lend me some money, They did. Anyway i was working away and the next thing you know a lady walks pass me, i also noticed some money falling to the ground, so i called out to the lady, "hey you dropped some money", but she insisted it wasn't hers. but i say "i saw it fall down as you walked pass". So she took it, and i was proud of my honest ways. later it dawned on me that i had placed the money (my co-worker lent to me) in my back pocket, i quickly checked to see if it was still there, it wasn't, i had given MY money to this lady.
:facepalm3:

btw, sorry teknix, i didn't realize you had a thread on ownership as well.


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Offlinebalanced
Hakuna Matata
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Registered: 05/16/11
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Re: Ownership [Re: blessed]
    #18765154 - 08/27/13 06:04 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Our thoughts are ours until someone learns how to directly steal them from our head.


--------------------
If I have seen a little further,
it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.


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Offlineblessed

Registered: 07/16/11
Posts: 1,086
Loc: ation: Tasmania Flag
Last seen: 11 days, 3 hours
Re: Ownership [Re: balanced]
    #18791629 - 09/02/13 07:38 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

balanced said:
Our thoughts are ours until someone learns how to directly steal them from our head.



I'm sure they're working on it  :tinfoil:

But if im not mistaken, isn't our brain/mind finite (just like a hard drive)?  Isn't our own thoughts, that you are talking about in fact the sum of theses things;

(a) One grows up being taught words and ways from their parents/society, forming the person they ultimately become (not saying that there aren't other factors).
+
(b) the way we are, by this i mean the type of person we are, strong minded/week minded, happy/sad, optimistic or pessimistic, these kind of things that a person is, regardless of what they hear, see, or do.

So combine these two major players in the making of a adult person, let's say you. Are you not in fact when you think "your thoughts", drawing from the words and experiences and other factors + the type of person you are, in  making "your own thoughts"?  While i may not make 100% sense, i am trying to show that these thoughts that "are 100% yours" are in fact the product of the world you live in and the way you are.  So in the end they are not 100% yours in my opinion.

So i think no one truly owns anything at all. In the same area that the lion proudly walks around it's territory, there would be, and im confident of this, an insect or small animal doing the very same thing. in the very same area that the lion believes is his/hers.  But the lion and the ant can't both own that same area of land. And to prove the point, along comes man believing that they own all the land. In the end they can't all own it. One (or more,or all) of them is wrong.

So to repeat, i believe that we can not truly own anything, period.


Edited by blessed (09/03/13 07:03 PM)


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Invisibleteknix
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Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
Re: Ownership [Re: blessed]
    #18791682 - 09/02/13 07:46 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

btw, sorry teknix, i didn't realize you had a thread on ownership as well.

Whatever floats your boat bro, let me know what you conclude.

It's not really "my" thread, it's just a thread.


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
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Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,252
Re: Ownership [Re: teknix]
    #18792140 - 09/02/13 09:26 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Nah bro, you were totally owning that thread. :pimp3:


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
Re: Ownership [Re: blessed]
    #18794987 - 09/03/13 03:56 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blessed said:

e.g I find $5 on the ground and pick it up. Is it now mine or does it still belong to the person that lost/drop it?




Its yours. Morality is an abstract concept, it doesn't actually exist and I challenge anyone who believes otherwise to prove that it exists.

Ownership of an object belongs to the individual who possess it, the social constructs which define ownership exist for our convenience.

If you have empathy for someone, don't steal from them :shrug: but that's your personal decision. As is abiding by the rules of our society, whether from fear or empathy.


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Offlineblessed

Registered: 07/16/11
Posts: 1,086
Loc: ation: Tasmania Flag
Last seen: 11 days, 3 hours
Re: Ownership [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18809553 - 09/06/13 09:41 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
btw, sorry teknix, i didn't realize you had a thread on ownership as well.

Whatever floats your boat bro, let me know what you conclude.

It's not really "my" thread, it's just a thread.



Hello teknix

I said sorry because i had created a thread similar to yours. I hadn't been on here for a while and since hadn't noticed yours. I probably wouldn't have posted on this subject,
but left it to another time.

On my conclusion of ownership, i don't think true ownership is possible, for what we "own" we took, what we "own", we found, what we "own" we lose.

Example: It's coming to the end of the existence of mankind, and there are only two people left on the entire planet. Person a (Arnold) comes across person b (Amy) . Now Amy is on her farm that her family have owned for her whole life (at this point Arnold has now found what he will soon own).  Everything on Amy's land belongs to her and her family. Arnold points his gun (his father gave it to him) at Amy and says im "taking your land". He then ties her up and takes over Amy's land.  Time passes by and Arnold is living the pos-apocalyptic dream, he has food for a life time, no one he needs to worry about (other then Amy) and a hot chicky babe for when he needs some loving.

But one night, Amy frees herself from her ropes.  She looks for Arnold's gun (found), she takes it (it's hers now baby!!) and then, she orders Arnold to get off her land
(she re-takes it).  As Arnold is walking away, he turns and charges at Amy, but she shoots him dead. It's game over for Arnold (he lost it all, including his life).

So now here she is, her land is hers again, and she now has a gun :minigun:.  Eventually she dies and it her land and the gun just sit there.

Now for the question/point of this thread.  With Amy now gone, who/what owns the land and everything on it???????

I believe that we truly don't own anything, it's ours but for a short while. We say it's ours by fact that we possess it & that we reason it to be ours for agreed reason by the human race.  One day it won't be ours anymore. To me this is not true ownership. To me it's more like stewardship of something

I see ownership in two lights;

1. Not true ownership is what we believe is ours, we found, took, bought, stole, reason in our minds (as a single person or as a society), and any other way we can come into possession of anything. But what makes this ownership fake is that we can lose it, e.g that $5, it can be stolen, and so on and so on. And let's not forget that even if wrong in their ways of thinking, a mass amount of people or a Government can come and take what is rightfully yours whether it's right or wrong for them to do so. e.g. From memory, peoples savings were taken from them in Greece not so long ago.

2. True ownership is where without you, that thing doesn't exists, you didn't use a tree in the wood to make it.
(for then you have taken what wasn't yours/created by you to begin with)

It has been made 100% by you. No, it isn't your child that you and your wife had, for you did not make your wife, you found her (attractive):sexysmile:.
Her existence is not because of you.

True ownership imo = it is 100% made by you, There is nothing anyone or anything can do to take it away from you and, that it solely exist because of you (you can make it and you can break it).

You know what? There is one that fits this class!! who could it be?

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Quote:

blessed said:

e.g I find $5 on the ground and pick it up. Is it now mine or does it still belong to the person that lost/drop it?




Its yours. Morality is an abstract concept, it doesn't actually exist and I challenge anyone who believes otherwise to prove that it exists.

Ownership of an object belongs to the individual who possess it, the social constructs which define ownership exist for our convenience.

If you have empathy for someone, don't steal from them :shrug: but that's your personal decision. As is abiding by the rules of our society, whether from fear or empathy.




Hello Repertoire89

But what if it was you who lost the money?, what if you had just been given a suitcase full of money from your grandmother who didn't belive in banks. So you're on your way home and you lose the suitcase (it's possible).  The next day you go head back to where you lost it and see the suitcase that you lost with that millions dollars in the possession of a homeless person. You 100% know it's your suitcase, so what do you do?

Based on finders keepers losers weepers, would you just say oh well and walk away? or would you instead approach the person / call the cops. btw there is photographic evidence that the suitcase and money is yours, your grandfather took a picture when grandma handed it to you.

me personally, i think you would try to get it back what belongs to you, even if it's in the hands of another person.


Edited by blessed (09/06/13 09:54 PM)


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Invisibleteknix
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Posts: 11,953
Re: Ownership [Re: blessed]
    #18809641 - 09/06/13 10:06 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Lol, if you really cared you would posted this in the other thread, but not that it matters.

:lol:


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Offlinebalanced
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Re: Ownership [Re: blessed]
    #18809673 - 09/06/13 10:15 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blessed said:
Quote:

balanced said:
Our thoughts are ours until someone learns how to directly steal them from our head.



I'm sure they're working on it  :tinfoil:

But if im not mistaken, isn't our brain/mind finite (just like a hard drive)?  Isn't our own thoughts, that you are talking about in fact the sum of theses things;

(a) One grows up being taught words and ways from their parents/society, forming the person they ultimately become (not saying that there aren't other factors).
+
(b) the way we are, by this i mean the type of person we are, strong minded/week minded, happy/sad, optimistic or pessimistic, these kind of things that a person is, regardless of what they hear, see, or do.

So combine these two major players in the making of a adult person, let's say you. Are you not in fact when you think "your thoughts", drawing from the words and experiences and other factors + the type of person you are, in  making "your own thoughts"?  While i may not make 100% sense, i am trying to show that these thoughts that "are 100% yours" are in fact the product of the world you live in and the way you are.  So in the end they are not 100% yours in my opinion.

So i think no one truly owns anything at all. In the same area that the lion proudly walks around it's territory, there would be, and im confident of this, an insect or small animal doing the very same thing. in the very same area that the lion believes is his/hers.  But the lion and the ant can't both own that same area of land. And to prove the point, along comes man believing that they own all the land. In the end they can't all own it. One (or more,or all) of them is wrong.

So to repeat, i believe that we can not truly own anything, period.




I also think they are working on it. :| The Obama BRAIN Initiative supports that theory.

You say thoughts are not one's own because their origins come from all the absorbed information. But I believe ownership comes into play once those thoughts are infused with the unique receiver. Our bodies are like a catalyst. What we see and how we classify it as how it works with us, works with the rest of the world, works with both of us, and does not work for us (in addition to that which is outside our unique perspective).

[Side note: That which is outside of one's perspective has the potential to affect the brain at any later date, though by message of another being. Remember the telephone effect game you played getting to be comfortable in groups when you were kids? It's that, but a much stronger between each link. ... Now I must apologize if I'm lacking sense.]

Let us assume there is not only one real consciousness in a universe where the rest of us are robots, i.e., tools for its development.  If one is capable of receiving information and energy i.e. food and will transform it into a uniquely perceived (if not necessarily expressed :p) idea with lots of (dare I say it?) literal kinetic energy... is it not fair to say others do the same? So if you share your thought (for it has not escaped your brain yet.. therefore under your complete control) even when you do.. the other person would taint it with their own unique blend of experiences. So do they own the thought you created? Or do they own their understanding of my thought?

Even if they understood every detail that affected an idea, they would only be able to understand it as you. Because it is not their unique blend, which is a contrast to mine.

So I guess.. true ownership is pretty rare. I think it's the one thing that fits your criteria.. although I am not sure about being able to break it. Unless forgetting it counts?

"You know what? There is one that fits this class!! who could it be?"

Was that it?


--------------------
If I have seen a little further,
it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Registered: 11/15/12
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Re: Ownership [Re: blessed]
    #18810719 - 09/07/13 07:53 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blessed said:
Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Quote:

blessed said:

e.g I find $5 on the ground and pick it up. Is it now mine or does it still belong to the person that lost/drop it?




Its yours. Morality is an abstract concept, it doesn't actually exist and I challenge anyone who believes otherwise to prove that it exists.

Ownership of an object belongs to the individual who possess it, the social constructs which define ownership exist for our convenience.

If you have empathy for someone, don't steal from them :shrug: but that's your personal decision. As is abiding by the rules of our society, whether from fear or empathy.




Hello Repertoire89

But what if it was you who lost the money?, what if you had just been given a suitcase full of money from your grandmother who didn't belive in banks. So you're on your way home and you lose the suitcase (it's possible).  The next day you go head back to where you lost it and see the suitcase that you lost with that millions dollars in the possession of a homeless person. You 100% know it's your suitcase, so what do you do?

Based on finders keepers losers weepers, would you just say oh well and walk away? or would you instead approach the person / call the cops. btw there is photographic evidence that the suitcase and money is yours, your grandfather took a picture when grandma handed it to you.

me personally, i think you would try to get it back what belongs to you, even if it's in the hands of another person.




Well if it was millions of dollars, whether or not it was mine in the first place I would rob the guy (kill him if need be). If you walk around with that kind of money that's what happens and I would sleep well for it


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Offlineblessed

Registered: 07/16/11
Posts: 1,086
Loc: ation: Tasmania Flag
Last seen: 11 days, 3 hours
Re: Ownership [Re: balanced]
    #18825148 - 09/10/13 08:25 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Lol, if you really cared you would posted this in the other thread, but not that it matters.

:lol:



teknix,

:smile:  I have made this thread with the intention of reaching an ultimate point. For that reason, i've have kept my views in here. I am ready to share this ultimate point in a moment.(in my response to balanced)

Your post,
......
"To own requires an object to be owned and an owner of that object.

In nature one object doesn't own another object, therefore ownership is not natural.

Atoms do not own one another, and if you think to own anything you are not a part of nature, but an idea that you made up to separate from nature.

Nature does not have an owner in reality, ownership can only be in a dualistic theory.

Therefore if you think you are something separate to own parts of nature that owner cannot be nature for nature could not own itself.

Everything we create is not natural, just because we are created naturally. (usually)"
......
I agree with you :thumbup:, and it actually similar to the point i wanted to make. You're pointing to my point even if you didn't intend to :thumbup:. What is my point? (please read below)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Quote:

blessed said:
Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Quote:

blessed said:

e.g I find $5 on the ground and pick it up. Is it now mine or does it still belong to the person that lost/drop it?




Its yours. Morality is an abstract concept, it doesn't actually exist and I challenge anyone who believes otherwise to prove that it exists.

Ownership of an object belongs to the individual who possess it, the social constructs which define ownership exist for our convenience.

If you have empathy for someone, don't steal from them :shrug: but that's your personal decision. As is abiding by the rules of our society, whether from fear or empathy.




Hello Repertoire89

But what if it was you who lost the money?, what if you had just been given a suitcase full of money from your grandmother who didn't belive in banks. So you're on your way home and you lose the suitcase (it's possible).  The next day you go head back to where you lost it and see the suitcase that you lost with that millions dollars in the possession of a homeless person. You 100% know it's your suitcase, so what do you do?

Based on finders keepers losers weepers, would you just say oh well and walk away? or would you instead approach the person / call the cops. btw there is photographic evidence that the suitcase and money is yours, your grandfather took a picture when grandma handed it to you.

me personally, i think you would try to get it back what belongs to you, even if it's in the hands of another person.




Well if it was millions of dollars, whether or not it was mine in the first place I would rob the guy (kill him if need be). If you walk around with that kind of money that's what happens and I would sleep well for it



Repertoire89,

While this situation may not happen often, the principle is that, there is something that has value to you (something you own), and if you lost it, you would try and get it back.
Even if you say that once lost, it's gone.

It's our (humans) view that we do own things, and that even if we lose something, we don't automatically lose it's (socially accepted) ownership. Maybe losing something of small value, you wouldn't care to much.  But, i believe if you lost something super valuable (backed by what you said earlier) "the social constructs which define ownership exist for our convenience", that you would still claim ownership on what you lost.  Even if as i understand you meaning, that once lost, it not ours anymore. It may not be truly yours anymore, but something tells me you'll fight to get it back. meaning you'd still, in some way shape or form, believe it's still yours.
(even if it's in someones else hands now).


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Offlineblessed

Registered: 07/16/11
Posts: 1,086
Loc: ation: Tasmania Flag
Last seen: 11 days, 3 hours
Re: Ownership [Re: balanced]
    #18825153 - 09/10/13 08:27 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

balanced said:
Quote:

blessed said:
Quote:

balanced said:
Our thoughts are ours until someone learns how to directly steal them from our head.



I'm sure they're working on it  :tinfoil:

But if im not mistaken, isn't our brain/mind finite (just like a hard drive)?  Isn't our own thoughts, that you are talking about in fact the sum of theses things;

(a) One grows up being taught words and ways from their parents/society, forming the person they ultimately become (not saying that there aren't other factors).
+
(b) the way we are, by this i mean the type of person we are, strong minded/week minded, happy/sad, optimistic or pessimistic, these kind of things that a person is, regardless of what they hear, see, or do.

So combine these two major players in the making of a adult person, let's say you. Are you not in fact when you think "your thoughts", drawing from the words and experiences and other factors + the type of person you are, in  making "your own thoughts"?  While i may not make 100% sense, i am trying to show that these thoughts that "are 100% yours" are in fact the product of the world you live in and the way you are.  So in the end they are not 100% yours in my opinion.

So i think no one truly owns anything at all. In the same area that the lion proudly walks around it's territory, there would be, and im confident of this, an insect or small animal doing the very same thing. in the very same area that the lion believes is his/hers.  But the lion and the ant can't both own that same area of land. And to prove the point, along comes man believing that they own all the land. In the end they can't all own it. One (or more,or all) of them is wrong.

So to repeat, i believe that we can not truly own anything, period.




I also think they are working on it. :| The Obama BRAIN Initiative supports that theory.

You say thoughts are not one's own because their origins come from all the absorbed information. But I believe ownership comes into play once those thoughts are infused with the unique receiver. Our bodies are like a catalyst. What we see and how we classify it as how it works with us, works with the rest of the world, works with both of us, and does not work for us (in addition to that which is outside our unique perspective).

[Side note: That which is outside of one's perspective has the potential to affect the brain at any later date, though by message of another being. Remember the telephone effect game you played getting to be comfortable in groups when you were kids? It's that, but a much stronger between each link. ... Now I must apologize if I'm lacking sense.]

Let us assume there is not only one real consciousness in a universe where the rest of us are robots, i.e., tools for its development.  If one is capable of receiving information and energy i.e. food and will transform it into a uniquely perceived (if not necessarily expressed :p) idea with lots of (dare I say it?) literal kinetic energy... is it not fair to say others do the same? So if you share your thought (for it has not escaped your brain yet.. therefore under your complete control) even when you do.. the other person would taint it with their own unique blend of experiences. So do they own the thought you created? Or do they own their understanding of my thought?

Even if they understood every detail that affected an idea, they would only be able to understand it as you. Because it is not their unique blend, which is a contrast to mine.

So I guess.. true ownership is pretty rare. I think it's the one thing that fits your criteria.. although I am not sure about being able to break it. Unless forgetting it counts?

"You know what? There is one that fits this class!! who could it be?"

Was that it?



balanced,

When i said that our thoughts are the results of what we have been taught, i was generalizing abit.  Example: When someone says their going to do something, the "something" they're gonna do is a learned thought. so not a truly original idea, and therefore not 100% theirs. But what you are talking about is the "other factors" that i was talking about.  I'd say that not many original thoughts pass our minds, for most of the time our thoughts are caught up in just living, and the glorious rat race.

But then maybe a part of the brain has the ability to create a unique thought/pattern that exists in no one else, this is to me the power of the brain, and where if a true 100% our own thought were to happen?, it would. So i can see why you would say that we are capable of our own thoughts. so on this point you are imo right, and i was wrong, or should i say, not 100% right.

But, Let's say that "I" program a Commodore 64 to be able to store and use (in trillions of possible ways) text typed on it's keyboard (absorbed Information).  "I" then add the ability to (based on what text is entered), the ability to note (with the intention of using this information later) The letters/words inputted, the rate of the letters/words, and how hard the keys were pressed.  "I" then program in other stuff for it all to come together for my C64 to have AI, and the ability to think on it's own.  Is this not then the case for us all?, only difference is that each of our C=64 is programed slightly different, with no two alike.  With seven billion people alive today, that's alot of Commodore 64's!!!, each with their own uniqueness. me personally, i got the cassette player version (slow)

Now as one of these C=64 balanced, you may be able to on some occasions have your own thought, truly your own, but, and there is always a but, there is more to you and your "own" thought.

Who is the one that can claim true ownership???  The "I" can, the "I" that made your C=64, The "I" that designed your unique program, The "I" that made you :smile:

Who is this "I"?

The God of the Bible :thumbup:

Hebrews 3:4 For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything
1Corinthians 10:26 for, “The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.”

and concerning each person alive (each of us C=64's :thumbup:),

Psalm 139:13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
Psalm 139:14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.
Psalm 139:15 My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
Psalm 139:16 Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.

And this is where teknix's thread/post comes into play :wink:

The universe (and all in it) is a watch, the maker of this watch is God, and it is in his hands.  So he own it all, not us.  What we own, he allows us to own (stewardship), but in the end, it's ALL his.

Now i apologise if i have gone about making this ultimate point in a reveres kinda of way, but i did it this way because i wanted to first define "true" ownership, and then show that (if he exist) That we are the work of God (He "truly" owns us all).

Now i remember this guy that brought one of the first PS3 when it came out, you know what he did?  In front of alot of people (i think it was filmed), he smashed it on the ground!!!  Now was this guy arrested for doing so?, no, if he would have been arrested, it would have been for being a pain in the neck/show off.  So Here is Mr PS3 man, explaining the point, it's his!!, and he can do whatever the hell he wants to do with it. But as i've been trying to say concerning true/not true ownership, this guy brought the PS3, he didn't design it and make it 100%.  How much more right does God have if he truly did make us and everything else???

Now before you start saying that there is no God (and that i'm stoopid!!!), all i ask is, for just 5 minutes (or the rest of today), please think about the implications of in fact, being created by God, and the choices he gives you.  Please really think about it please.

Something like this maybe,

"so this buck tooth loser on this site recons that God made me, what a dummy :laugh2:. but ok for 5 minutes i will.  I belong to the God of the Bible, what does that ultimately mean? Him my creator and me, part of his creation?"

What happens when you drop your wallet and it falls on the ground?

What do you think? (as you pick it up). "ah, my wallet, i don't want to lose you!!"

If the wallet could think, what would it say?

"I DON"T WANT YOU to pick me up......."

Do you see my friend?, do you see?


Edited by blessed (09/11/13 12:27 AM)


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