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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
"Humour is destructive!"?
    #18758656 - 08/26/13 06:54 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Ultimately, it's all about laughing at organisms.

Finding confidence in imbecile. Glorification of idiotic.

I suppose laughing with the genius is sane but even then, you're laughing at other organisms as subjective metric. Unless you take everything with you into eden.


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Offlinejimiandtheshroom27
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18758794 - 08/26/13 08:17 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Humour isn't necessarily a glorification of the idiotic, although it can be. I think humour is way of acknowledging the idiotic parts of the mind. Humans can be very silly, as can other organisms. It's tempting to try and simplify humour and say its just laughing at organisms. Yes, it can be simplified into those terms, but humour encapsulates so many different types of jokes. Often humour can be helpful as a means of laughing at what humans don't want to be- comedic tv programmes can allow us to watch the actions of a fictional character and, as an example, laugh at the clear lack of judgement they show(maybe they're being xenophobic or afraid to have a good time). And organisms are life! what else would we laugh at if not the life around us?
Admittedly some humour is destructive. Often mob psychology humour, where we laugh at something or someone simply because everyone else does. But other types of humour serve many purposes for the human psyche. Finding humour in situations can help people enjoy their everyday lives much more. Dark humour can be a way of integrating the morbid into the psyche and accepting the viciousness of life. We can laugh at something without without wishing harm or causing it. We can laugh at the lack of intelligence of other animals, without bearing ill will towards them. Finding humour in something isn't destructive. Judging is destructive, for the only one who you judge is yourself .


--------------------
Are you a lucky little lady in the City of Light
Or just another lost angel?
City of Night, City of Night,
City of Night, City of Night, woo, c'mon


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: jimiandtheshroom27]
    #18758847 - 08/26/13 08:42 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, it can be simplified into those terms, but humour encapsulates so many different types of jokes. Often humour can be helpful as a means of laughing at what humans don't want to be- comedic tv programmes can allow us to watch the actions of a fictional character and, as an example, laugh at the clear lack of judgement they show(maybe they're being xenophobic or afraid to have a good time).

Finding confidence in imbecile.

what else would we laugh at if not the life around us?

Why would we laugh when we analyze what we actually laugh at? I don't see any reason to laugh when I use my brain and question humour to the very core.

Admittedly some humour is destructive. Often mob psychology humour, where we laugh at something or someone simply because everyone else does. But other types of humour serve many purposes for the human psyche.

Please provide examples of humour where the ego does not feed off ego's and their misery.

Finding humour in situations can help people enjoy their everyday lives much more.

Certainly, just like I look more handsome than my neighbor.  :paradisiscoolwhat:

Dark humour can be a way of integrating the morbid into the psyche and accepting the viciousness of life. We can laugh at something without without wishing harm or causing it.

It's definitely an effective shield, that's why it's so destructive.

We can laugh at the lack of intelligence of other animals, without bearing ill will towards them.

Why would you laugh at the lack of intelligence in other organisms? :paradisiscoolwhat:

Finding humour in something isn't destructive. Judging is destructive, for the only one who you judge is yourself .

Give me an example of humour where you're not judging someone or something.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge] * 1
    #18758900 - 08/26/13 09:05 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Ultimately, it's all about laughing at organisms.

Finding confidence in imbecile. Glorification of idiotic.

I suppose laughing with the genius is sane but even then, you're laughing at other organisms as subjective metric. Unless you take everything with you into eden.



:curbyourenthusiasm::haha:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleInto The Woods
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Registered: 04/20/13
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: Icelander]
    #18758943 - 08/26/13 09:20 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I've heard that sometimes laughter is the emotional response when the brain makes a connection it hasn't made before, of something unexpected that we find relates to us in some way or another.

Sounds right in some cases.


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Offlinejimiandtheshroom27
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18758961 - 08/26/13 09:26 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

What is wrong with finding confidence in imbecile?
Do you believe all human behaviour should be analysed? Humour by nature is a fast thing, an instant reaction.
Do you analyse saying "hello" to someone when you say it?
Simple jokes are examples of such humour. I fail to see how basic jokes such as knock knock jokes represent the ego feeding off other ego's and their misery.
No that's not the kind of thing i mean at all. What about finding humour in yourself, laughing at yourself? You try and find a location and pass a road several times, going in circles, only to discover that the place you were looking for was on that road and so you laugh at the situation.

Yes, you can view it as shield. If you apply that logic to other areas off life, everything's a shield. We are all trying to find things to keep us busy, things to cling to because we need things to do whilst we wait for death.

You are applying a rational mind to to humour, which by its very nature is irrational. Humans are irrational. I might laugh at the silliness of a dog because on some level I find joy in the sheer complexity of life, that some animals are less intelligent than others, bigger smaller. I think this is why laughter can be so prominent on mushroom trips, because the sheer complexity and miraculousness of the world becomes clearer to you. Of course this is just a theory- its true i dont consciously think that when i laugh at the silly dog. Nor is the dog actually silly. If anything, i am silly for laughing at the dog. The notion of the dog being silly is a creation of my own mind. Lots of humour belongs to the subconscious. Often we laugh without thinking.

Okay. Puns. "I'm reading a book about anti-gravity. It's impossible to put down."


--------------------
Are you a lucky little lady in the City of Light
Or just another lost angel?
City of Night, City of Night,
City of Night, City of Night, woo, c'mon


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: jimiandtheshroom27]
    #18759259 - 08/26/13 11:13 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

What is wrong with finding confidence in imbecile?

The measurement in which you compare yourself too and obviously contributing towards humans currently horrible culture of losers.

Do you believe all human behaviour should be analysed? Humour by nature is a fast thing, an instant reaction.

Why should it not? Fast way to pleasure you say? :stoned:

Do you analyse saying "hello" to someone when you say it?

Yes, this is how I improve myself. My measurement should lie within myself.

Simple jokes are examples of such humour. I fail to see how basic jokes such as knock knock jokes represent the ego feeding off other ego's and their misery.

Knock knock jokes are definitely glorifying silliness and thus feed off misery. Both ego's are feeding off each other.

What about finding humour in yourself, laughing at yourself? You try and find a location and pass a road several times, going in circles, only to discover that the place you were looking for was on that road and so you laugh at the situation.

Still glorifying silliness or lack of awareness, not being focused if you want.

Yes, you can view it as shield. If you apply that logic to other areas off life, everything's a shield. We are all trying to find things to keep us busy, things to cling to because we need things to do whilst we wait for death.

And shields towards death are illusions based on death anxiety.

I want to take life for what it is and work from there.

You are applying a rational mind to to humour, which by its very nature is irrational. Humans are irrational.

Do humans want to be irrational if they knew rationality? I think it's easy to see why humans prefer 2 + 2 to equal 4, not 5 and thus take a step in direction towards creating electricity as an example.

I might laugh at the silliness of a dog because on some level I find joy in the sheer complexity of life, that some animals are less intelligent than others, bigger smaller.

You laugh because you feel better than the dog. Your happiness lies in the misery of the dog compared to yourself, in your opinion. If not, I would like to hear why.

The notion of the dog being silly is a creation of my own mind.

Do you want your mind to create silliness?

Often we laugh without thinking.

You're always thinking while being conscious, however, I am sure you think much less and more simple when not thinking things through. Do you want to merely act on instincts?

"I'm reading a book about anti-gravity. It's impossible to put down."

Glorification of silliness or stupidity.


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18759416 - 08/26/13 12:24 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Ultimately, it's all about laughing at organisms.






So what? Even if that were true, it isn't good evidence that humor is only destructive.



Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Do you want your mind to create silliness?





Sometimes, I do.


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #18759478 - 08/26/13 12:40 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

So what? Even if that were true, it isn't good evidence that humor is only destructive.

There's a difference between laughing with people and at people. However, laughing with people is ultimately directed at someone or something. I would like you to present examples if you don't agree.

It's a nonchalant and arrogant approach to existence, feeling of superiority a dangerous shield.

Sometimes, I do.

This is beyond me - how one want's to be silly. Pretending to be stupid only to come out of it knowing you're not that stupid. Indirectly ridiculing your surroundings.


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18759548 - 08/26/13 01:02 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

So I guess you're above finding humour in things? That seems pretty arrogant.



"However, laughing with people is ultimately directed at someone or something."

So what?

I think life is more about feeling itself out, rather than like a video game where there are boundaries you cannot cross and correct sequences of buttons to press. So maybe laughter and humour are an ego game.. well, we all have egos. There can be play in that and it doesn't have to be malicious or about superiority in the end. It can be about having humility and learning your place in life. Int his way it is constructive, not destructive as you suggest.



Quote:

liquidlounge said:
This is beyond me - how one want's to be silly. Pretending to be stupid only to come out of it knowing you're not that stupid. Indirectly ridiculing your surroundings.




Silly and stupid are two different things. You seem to be glossing over the subtleties and into extremes.


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #18759579 - 08/26/13 01:16 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

So I guess you're above finding humour in things? That seems pretty arrogant.

Above? If people want to laugh, go ahead, I take humour for what it is. :shrug:

So what?

Do you want people to laugh at you?

Maybe you don't care because you have never truly felt it on your skin. There are countless people "below" yourself in the fucked up Western hierarchy we live in. Culture of stupidity, humour is one of the greatest contributors.

I think life is more about feeling itself out, rather than like a video game where there are boundaries you cannot cross and correct sequences of buttons to press. So maybe laughter and humour are an ego game.. well, we all have egos. There can be play in that and it doesn't have to be malicious or about superiority in the end. It can be about having humility and learning your place in life. Int his way it is constructive, not destructive as you suggest.

How is humour about humility? Laughing at yourself and pretending to be stupid? That's all about humility. :rolleyes:

Show me an example of sane humour.

Silly and stupid are two different things.

Silly:

1. Exhibiting a lack of wisdom or good sense; foolish.

Stupid:

2. Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes.


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Edited by liquidlounge (08/26/13 01:24 PM)


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18759686 - 08/26/13 01:54 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

So when the dalai lama is laughing, he's doing so because he's arrogant?  When a parent is acting silly with their child, they're "pretending to be stupid"?

:justno:



It seems your main problem is with control and lack thereof. If someone is making a joke out of you, then you perceive little control over the situation. Presumably, that means the one in control is making the jokes, not being the butt of them. I don't think that's true, though - just check out political satire.

I think some of the wisest people are comedians. They see through bullshit and straight to the human psyche.



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Offlinejimiandtheshroom27
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #18759727 - 08/26/13 02:07 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

How ironic it is that you state:
The measurement in which you compare yourself too and obviously contributing towards humans currently horrible culture of losers.
In other words, it is wrong to compare yourself to imbecility, right?

Yet you yourself do just that.
Quote:

contributing towards humans currently horrible culture of losers.


Didn't you say
Quote:

My measurement should lie within myself.



You judge other humans and see at least some of them as inferior in their ways to you. Its interesting that you should claim humour as such a destructive thing whilst harbouring such cynical views of your own species.
Fast way to pleasure you say?  i don't see how what you said there follows what i said. And yes, certainly the fast way to pleasure if its benign, harmless. What human would reject happiness if they could obtain it with no harm to anyone?

Do you analyse saying "hello" to someone when you say it?

Yes, this is how I improve myself. My measurement should lie within myself.

No. You don't. If you analysed everything fully you said before you said it, you would not be able to have a conversation.

Knock knock jokes are definitely glorifying silliness and thus feed off misery. c'mon man.:cool: What is so wrong with silliness? Are you afraid to be silly?

Quote:

And shields towards death are illusions based on death anxiety.


Is that not your own shield? Everyone had shields. You cannot pretend you did not fear death until you were able to learn about why you shouldn't fear it. Death is a complete unknown. It is possible we should have reason to fear death.

Quote:

I want to take life for what it is and work from there.


It sounds great but what does it mean?

Quote:

Do humans want to be irrational if they knew rationality?


Of course! As you say rationality is very important for understanding the world around us and manipulating it to our advantage. But in the human mind, we don't want to take ourselves so seriously, to do so is to deny an aspect of our psyche. Jung wrote excellently about how we must acknowledge and integrate all the parts of our psyche. Irrationality is one of the shadows of the human psyche- we may not like to recognise we have it, but we simply are irrational at times. Humour is a means of integrating it.

You laugh because you feel better than the dog. Your happiness lies in the misery of the dog compared to yourself, in your opinion. If not, I would like to hear why.
I'll admit you are making me think hard about why i laugh. I certainly don't laugh at the misery of the dog compared to me. Yes, i guess its true. I do laugh at the dog in relation to myself, in the sense that the only reason i can find it funny is because i am cleverer than the dog. But surely there is a difference between laughing at the dog's misery in comparison to myself and laughing at it because i know that the dog is less clever and is doing something silly. Your use of the word misery makes it the point moot anyway, i dont laugh at misery, i laugh at differences.
Do you want your mind to create silliness?
God yes :tongue: Nothing is truly silly. Even silliness has meaning. silliness is the just the counter to rationality.

You're always thinking while being conscious, however, I am sure you think much less and more simple when not thinking things through.
Hmm it depends how you define thinking. if you mean thinking as in knowing what you are thinking about then no, we are not constantly thinking whilst conscious.

Do you want to merely act on instincts? You mean constantly? No  and i dont see how enjoying humour means i only act on instinct. If you mean sometimes, yes of course i do. Acting on instinct can do marvellous things at times. When you are talking about something like quick humour, i would argue you are talking about a part of the subconscious that isn't part of instinct anyway. Yes its quick, but instincts i see as something more natural rather than conditioned.

Quote:

Glorification of silliness or stupidity.



When you say this, you are again showing that you yourself judge, and hold outside people and things as lower than yourself. the very word stupidity has a negative connotation. You have attacked humour for how it judges organisms, and supposedly feeds the ego. Do you not do the same when you see humour as something stupid and irrational, and call your fellow humans "losers?"


--------------------
Are you a lucky little lady in the City of Light
Or just another lost angel?
City of Night, City of Night,
City of Night, City of Night, woo, c'mon


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OfflineLuxLuthier
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: jimiandtheshroom27] * 1
    #18760107 - 08/26/13 03:42 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

A couple of days ago I had what seemed at the time to be the worst day of my life; everything went completely wrong until finally one event became the cherry on top of it all. 

When this disaster hit I felt a complete surge of humor and laughter welling up through me, as though a strange kind of alchemy took place as the cumulative effects of the stress became transcendental. 

I laughed uncontrollably, because I became aware of an essential humor that seemed to be present throughout the universe, woven like a single golden thread through a white rug that wasn't apparent until I fell on my face and saw it from my new, humbling perspective.

In fact, humor is always present whenever I have an 'aha' moment and come to a point of greater understanding. Not to sound cheesy or redundant, but to me humor has always been intimately tied with love and understanding.
Am I mad? Am I glorifying the ridiculous? I can't be certain as the idea of humor eludes my own logical scrutiny, but I know that it feels great and has zero harmful side effects. :lol:


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #18760144 - 08/26/13 03:47 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

So when the dalai lama is laughing, he's doing so because he's arrogant?

What is Dalai Lama laughing at? Show me an example of him laughing without looking down on something or someone.

When a parent is acting silly with their child, they're "pretending to be stupid"?

Pretending to be more stupid or on the same level as the child. Illusion.

"Soon enough, you will grow up to be more complex than myself and I will do whatever it takes for that to happen/survive, here's some of my ego."

It seems your main problem is with control and lack thereof. If someone is making a joke out of you, then you perceive little control over the situation.

No, I work on questioning the opposite part why they would do such and explain in details what I feel about this and how it affects society as a whole. Then it gets quiet, unless they are drunk.

I think some of the wisest people are comedians. They see through bullshit and straight to the human psyche.

They mostly feed off insecurity, "weirdness" and stupidity.

If not, please share examples.


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18760237 - 08/26/13 04:02 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Why would we laugh when we analyze what we actually laugh at?




because it's funny in the heat of the moment.

Quote:

I don't see any reason to laugh when I use my brain and question humour to the very core.




laughter is often the spontaneous result of some connection I've made in my mind, as opposed to analyzation which seems to come more after the fact.  i don't give myself reasons to laugh, i just laugh.


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18760248 - 08/26/13 04:04 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
So when the dalai lama is laughing, he's doing so because he's arrogant?

What is Dalai Lama laughing at?




:hahthatsrich:


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: jimiandtheshroom27]
    #18760354 - 08/26/13 04:28 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

You judge other humans and see at least some of them as inferior in their ways to you. Its interesting that you should claim humour as such a destructive thing whilst harbouring such cynical views of your own species.

Culture built on winning and losing. I never said people were losers or at least I didn't mean to say so.

i don't see how what you said there follows what i said. And yes, certainly the fast way to pleasure if its benign, harmless.

There was a smiley at the end, of a smoker. Instant pleasure is just that, McDonalds and cigarettes - extreme example. But we know what it's in the long run.

No. You don't. If you analysed everything fully you said before you said it, you would not be able to have a conversation.

I am sorry, it looks like I didn't read your sentence properly. I analyze afterwards so that I improve myself for the next encounter. That said, I have to remember the 'hello' and it's thus correct to say that I somehow analyze in the moment as well.

Is that not your own shield? Everyone had shields.

Humour? No, I am trying to debate against humour, so this is certainly not my shield.

You cannot pretend you did not fear death until you were able to learn about why you shouldn't fear it.

First I fear pain, then years later I was well-versed in society and began fearing death as well.

Death is a complete unknown. It is possible we should have reason to fear death.

If death is complete unknown, why is there reason to fear death? Why would you fear what you don't know? Sounds irrational IMO.

It sounds great but what does it mean?

Objective approach.

But in the human mind, we don't want to take ourselves so seriously, to do so is to deny an aspect of our psyche.

Take ourselves seriously? When you're not laughing or acting silly, are you then taking yourself seriously?

Jung wrote excellently about how we must acknowledge and integrate all the parts of our psyche. Irrationality is one of the shadows of the human psyche- we may not like to recognise we have it, but we simply are irrational at times. Humour is a means of integrating it.

People simply laugh it off instead of getting to the bottom of it and try to eradicate it. Makes no sense IMO.

Surely you would rather want to be rational and not irrational? Why do you not work towards rationality instead of uncritically accepting existence?

I'll admit you are making me think hard about why i laugh.

:thumbup:

I assume that is what you want?

I certainly don't laugh at the misery of the dog compared to me. Yes, i guess its true. I do laugh at the dog in relation to myself, in the sense that the only reason i can find it funny is because i am cleverer than the dog. But surely there is a difference between laughing at the dog's misery in comparison to myself and laughing at it because i know that the dog is less clever and is doing something silly. Your use of the word misery makes it the point moot anyway, i dont laugh at misery, i laugh at differences.

Do you laugh at the dog compared to yourself or not? If you do, I would say your laughter is your amusement of being more intelligent or clever than the less intelligent/clever dog. Thus feeding off its misery - in your mind. You want to be as intelligent and clever as possible, right?

God yes :tongue: Nothing is truly silly. Even silliness has meaning. silliness is the just the counter to rationality.

Silliness is useless.

Hmm it depends how you define thinking. if you mean thinking as in knowing what you are thinking about then no, we are not constantly thinking whilst conscious.

You always have thoughts while being conscious. Close your eyes and meditate for an hour and you will still see black, this is a thought. There are always mental picture(s) inside your conscious mind.

You mean constantly? No  and i dont see how enjoying humour means i only act on instinct. If you mean sometimes, yes of course i do. Acting on instinct can do marvellous things at times. When you are talking about something like quick humour, i would argue you are talking about a part of the subconscious that isn't part of instinct anyway. Yes its quick, but instincts i see as something more natural rather than conditioned.

Not thinking things through means acting on instincts IMO.

McDonald's and cigarettes.

When you say this, you are again showing that you yourself judge, and hold outside people and things as lower than yourself. the very word stupidity has a negative connotation. You have attacked humour for how it judges organisms, and supposedly feeds the ego. Do you not do the same when you see humour as something stupid and irrational, and call your fellow humans "losers?"

In what way do I judge when I observe people laughing at stupidity?

I never called humans losers but culture is built on winning and losing.


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Invisibleliquidlounge

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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: Hobozen]
    #18760365 - 08/26/13 04:30 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

because it's funny in the heat of the moment.

But is it funny when you think it through?

laughter is often the spontaneous result of some connection I've made in my mind, as opposed to analyzation which seems to come more after the fact.  i don't give myself reasons to laugh, i just laugh.

Maybe you should question more and deeply so, why you laugh? :shrug:


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InvisibleAWS
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge] * 2
    #18760387 - 08/26/13 04:35 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Maybe you should question more and deeply so, why you laugh? :shrug:



This thread is hilarious.


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Invisibleliquidlounge

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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: AWS]
    #18760393 - 08/26/13 04:37 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Why?


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18760449 - 08/26/13 04:48 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
because it's funny in the heat of the moment.

But is it funny when you think it through?




Is joy joyful when you think it through?

Would it matter?  No

Quote:

laughter is often the spontaneous result of some connection I've made in my mind, as opposed to analyzation which seems to come more after the fact.  i don't give myself reasons to laugh, i just laugh.

Maybe you should question more and deeply so, why you laugh? :shrug:




Maybe you should stop shoulding on me :cranky:


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Invisibleliquidlounge

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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: Hobozen]
    #18760508 - 08/26/13 05:01 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Is joy joyful when you think it through?

Euphoria or joy brings me the best memories and they feel sane when I think them through. Usually when I am euphoric my surroundings tend to get in good moods. Chasing such is reason to stay alive.

Would it matter?  No

Why not?

Maybe you should stop shoulding on me :cranky:

I thought you would agree humour and laughter might not be healthy when you think about it. Avoiding humour should feel more rationale and sane to your mind IMO.

You obviously do what you want.


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18760642 - 08/26/13 05:39 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Is joy joyful when you think it through?

Euphoria or joy brings me the best memories and they feel sane when I think them through. Usually when I am euphoric my surroundings tend to get in good moods. Chasing such is reason to stay alive.




Why couldn't the same be said about laughter?  Couldn't laughter be seen as an extension or expression of joy? 

Quote:

I thought you would agree humour and laughter might not be healthy when you think about it.




Running around in circles trying to think about it seems more insane than just straight up laughing.  The cavemen would probably agree.

Quote:

Avoiding humour should feel more rationale and sane to your mind IMO.




Monkeys laugh.  Should they too avoid humor in favor of this supposed "rationale"?


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: Hobozen] * 1
    #18760660 - 08/26/13 05:44 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Apparently, when you tickle a rat, it produces ultrasonic sounds, which appear to be laughter.

Insanity!



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Offlinejimiandtheshroom27
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge] * 1
    #18760682 - 08/26/13 05:49 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Your views show many cognitive biases. Generalisations- culture being built around winning or losing, culture in general being a loser culture, black and white glasses on- silliness is useless. Depressed people often have cognitive biases like those :rolleyes:

As a musician, playing on instinct is crucial.

I can't keep this up but its given me great pause for thought about humour. Thanks.

Quote:

Silliness is useless




Good god. To think of a world without silliness. I wouldn't want to live.


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: Hobozen]
    #18762452 - 08/27/13 03:16 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Why couldn't the same be said about laughter?  Couldn't laughter be seen as an extension or expression of joy?

If you get the feeling of great pleasure and happiness, don't let me stop you, but consider what you laugh at till the very core. Laughter is ALWAYS directed towards losers, hence it's destructive.

Running around in circles trying to think about it seems more insane than just straight up laughing.  The cavemen would probably agree.

What do you mean by running around in circles?

To ignore laughing when you question what you laugh at is not insanity. Acting on instincts is insanity, repetition.

Monkeys laugh.  Should they too avoid humor in favor of this supposed "rationale"?

I don't know what the specific monkey you had in mind laugh at. I assume to know what my own monkey species laugh at though.


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Invisibleliquidlounge

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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: jimiandtheshroom27]
    #18762469 - 08/27/13 03:26 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Generalisations- culture being built around winning or losing, culture in general being a loser culture, black and white glasses on- silliness is useless.

Culture is all about winning and losing, picking up a shiny lady from the bar or getting the specific job. Be a winner and you control the surroundings.

Depressed people often have cognitive biases like those :rolleyes:

Do you want to help me out of it? Or do you simply say it to look down on me?

As a musician, playing on instinct is crucial.

I don't think so, musicians analyze and question what sounds better, whether in improvisation or recording/notes. Or else music would be very messy IMO.

I can't keep this up but its given me great pause for thought about humour. Thanks.

I appreciate your effort in making me defend my position.

Good god. To think of a world without silliness. I wouldn't want to live.

Again, not being silly does not automatically equal seriousness.


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18762483 - 08/27/13 03:38 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Laughter is ALWAYS directed towards losers, hence it's destructive.




Always? :lol: When babies laugh, are they laughing at a perceived loser? 

I can't help but think this is a joke.  Silliness! :zomgzomgzomg:


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: Hobozen]
    #18762487 - 08/27/13 03:43 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Always? :lol: When babies laugh, are they laughing at a perceived loser?

They are laughing at silliness and silliness is loser in culture and society.


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18762494 - 08/27/13 03:51 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Just because you interpret it as silliness doesn't make it so.


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: Hobozen]
    #18762504 - 08/27/13 04:00 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Show me examples of humour and laughter that is not based on silliness.

A baby looking into the clear blue sky laughing is doing so thinking about something silly. Its ego says: "I am alive, I am great!", defense mechanism and shield against existence, heroism.


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18762510 - 08/27/13 04:10 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Can something so real such as laughter be based on a single word and it's many possible interpretations?


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18762515 - 08/27/13 04:15 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Culture is all about winning and losing, picking up a shiny lady from the bar or getting the specific job. Be a winner and you control the surroundings.

If you really believe that's what culture is about, then reject it. All the really matters is what you and your friends believe in. I do see what you mean, i despise the mainstream culture we are fed. It's hollow and cruel. But you can form your own culture with your friends, one where humour isnt used as a means of putting people down, its just used to have a good time. It's just messing around. Lets take the idea that if humour is used, the one using it is elated whilst the other is put down.  If two people tell the same amount of jokes as eachother, they will reach equilibrium. I don't really mean to argue with you anyway. Increasingly i think you meant this less as a debate and more that you put this uo here because you genuinely do believe it, and if you do, i'm sorry.

Do you want to help me out of it? Or do you simply say it to look down on me?
No i dont say it to look down on you. I have a lot of sympathy for you if you are depressed. But i can't help you out of it. No one usually can with depressed people, except good psychologists. The reason for that is that depression is an illness that effects your perception. No matter what you are told, you will always be seeing things through negative glasses. The very nature of the illness means that when most people try to help you see the bright side of life, an overactive part of your brain tries to immediately think of a negative over ruling. With respect, if you are depressed try and get help, because it will usually get worse if you dont.

I don't think so, musicians analyze and question what sounds better, whether in improvisation or recording/notes. Or else music would be very messy IMO. Are you a musician? Yes its true we do do that, especially with recording. But musicians- creative ones anyway definitely act on instinct, especially live. You don't analyse why you about to hit that note, you just fucking hit it. Your own definition of acting on instinct is not thinking things through. Sometimes you just dont want to think things through. Cause then all the other parts of your mind get in the way and you start trying to curtail what you are playing. Playing on instinct allows you to tap into raw emotion, which is very important in art.

I appreciate your effort in making me defend my position. That to me says you don't mean this as a debate? Defending your fixed position isn't what its about is it? Are you already certain you are right? If so, there is no need for this post.

Again, not being silly does not automatically equal seriousness.

You misunderstand, i wasn't talking about a serious world. I was literally just talking about a world without silliness. I still wouldn't want to live.


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18762526 - 08/27/13 04:24 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Its ego says: "I am alive, I am great!", defense mechanism and shield against existence, heroism.




So then why destructive?


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: Hobozen]
    #18762887 - 08/27/13 08:26 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blankk said:
Can something so real such as laughter be based on a single word and it's many possible interpretations?



As written in the OP:

Finding confidence in imbecile. Glorification of idiotic.


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: jimiandtheshroom27]
    #18762948 - 08/27/13 08:55 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I don't really mean to argue with you anyway. Increasingly i think you meant this less as a debate and more that you put this uo here because you genuinely do believe it, and if you do, i'm sorry.

Belief? This is true.

Type in "humourus" at youtube, there's the proof. If you do not agree, I would like you to present example/proof that show otherwise.

No i dont say it to look down on you.

Yes you do, why would you else post the following smiley after your sentence: :rolleyes:?

Are you a musician?

Not by the general definition. However, I would say that I start to fit this definition in Google's dictionary:

1. A person who is talented or skilled in music.

But musicians- creative ones anyway definitely act on instinct, especially live.

I don't agree, they use cognitive patterns to create melody and rhythm IMO. Musician is a broad term though, I am not sure what type of music you listen to.

You don't analyse why you about to hit that note, you just fucking hit it.

Simply hitting keys on the synth without building melodic and rhythmic relevance. Would this not make for a mess?

Sometimes you just dont want to think things through.

Not when you think about just that and the consequences which may occur regardless of your situation.

Playing on instinct allows you to tap into raw emotion, which is very important in art.

What defines raw emotion? Not thinking things through and acting on instinct? How is that an emotion?

That to me says you don't mean this as a debate? Defending your fixed position isn't what its about is it? Are you already certain you are right? If so, there is no need for this post.

I am assume to be certain of this but I want my position challenged to see if there is a hole in it based on the assumption of certainty.

My greeting was sincere.

You misunderstand, i wasn't talking about a serious world. I was literally just talking about a world without silliness. I still wouldn't want to live.

Silliness is by all means stupidity turned acceptable. :shrug:


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Invisibleliquidlounge

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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: Hobozen]
    #18762992 - 08/27/13 09:14 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blankk said:
Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Its ego says: "I am alive, I am great!", defense mechanism and shield against existence, heroism.




So then why destructive?




It creates an illusion of non-fragility. As the baby grows it anxiously understands how fragile it really is and thus start creating new illusions to makeup existence.

Illusions are destructive.


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18763348 - 08/27/13 10:59 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Quote:

blankk said:
Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Its ego says: "I am alive, I am great!", defense mechanism and shield against existence, heroism.




So then why destructive?




It creates an illusion of non-fragility.




That is your subjective interpretation, btw.


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #18763361 - 08/27/13 11:04 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Hardly.


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18767173 - 08/28/13 04:11 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Yes you do, why would you else post the following smiley after your sentence: :rolleyes:?

To indicate that maybe you are depressed. I apologise it was poor choice of smiley for the intended meaning.

they use cognitive patterns to create melody and rhythm IMO.
What are instincts if not cognitive patterns? Isn't all activity cognitive patterns? I can't help but feel you are just disagreeing for the sake of it right now. I'm a blues musician. What i mean is times when you aren't aware for sure of what note you are about to hit.


What defines raw emotion? Not thinking things through and acting on instinct? How is that an emotion?


No. I'm getting seriously tired of you twisting everyone's words into things they're not even saying. I am saying that as a musician, acting on instinct and not thinking things through (no doubt you'll claim i am) allows you to access raw emotion. Jesus. I never claimed instinct and not thinking were emotion.

Quote:

Silliness is by all means stupidity turned acceptable.




Stupidity transcends many species of animals across the animal kingdom. Are stupid animals not acceptable?

I think the main fault in your argument is that you are certain you are right about things which can not even be proven. The ego arguably does not even exist, it is simply used to represent certain aspects of our psyche. There is no actual place in the human brain where the ego specifically rests.

Here's the sound part of your argument- Humour is laughing at other organisms. Perhaps that may sound bad to you, but i dont think so. Could be bad, could not be. All that means is simply laughing at the life around us. Everything else you have said about humour is conjecture. The idea that it is destructive, feeds the ego, that a baby laughing at the sky does so because it's ego says "i am alive, i am great", that Illusions are destructive.

Ultimately, whenever someone gives you a good point that challenges the idea that humour is destructive, you start referring to unconscious forces that can not be proved nor disproved such as the ego being fed and that a baby feels heroism when it looks at the sky and laughs. You've also completely ignored the positive effects of humour.


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18767244 - 08/28/13 05:31 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Ultimately, it's all about laughing at organisms.

Finding confidence in imbecile. Glorification of idiotic.

I suppose laughing with the genius is sane but even then, you're laughing at other organisms as subjective metric. Unless you take everything with you into eden.




In my opinion laughter is the vocal manifestation of an emotion, if you take away our language and revert back to apish grunts laughter still has its part. That part doesn't necessarily communicate what you're suggesting in OP, as often as not laughter is completely innocent.

When a friend of mine walks in the room I laugh because I'm happy to see them


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: jimiandtheshroom27]
    #18767578 - 08/28/13 08:31 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

To indicate that maybe you are depressed.

Merely to boost your own ego or confidence. That you're somehow right since I am weaker than yourself.

What are instincts if not cognitive patterns? Isn't all activity cognitive patterns? I can't help but feel you are just disagreeing for the sake of it right now. I'm a blues musician. What i mean is times when you aren't aware for sure of what note you are about to hit.

Cognitive patterns are based on thoughts; musicians, improvisational ones too use well thought out cognitive patterns when creating music.

No. I'm getting seriously tired of you twisting everyone's words into things they're not even saying. I am saying that as a musician, acting on instinct and not thinking things through (no doubt you'll claim i am) allows you to access raw emotion. Jesus. I never claimed instinct and not thinking were emotion.

What does "access raw emotion" then mean?

Also, theoretically speaking it's not possible to not think and so therefore purely act on instincts is impossible. But humour is a leading contributor to more instinctive behavior or less thinking which is obviously destructive in today's world.

Stupidity transcends many species of animals across the animal kingdom. Are stupid animals not acceptable?

Some are accepted, some are not. Humans control and boss over less intelligent organisms so they are accepted based on silliness and not stupidity. On the other hand, many humans rage on and abuse less intelligent organisms due to the organisms stupidity.

However, stupidity amongst humans is not acceptable but it's when turned into silliness. Behaving like you're stupid, when you're only being silly but in reality stupid or less intelligent.

Smartness is humans primary weapon.

I think the main fault in your argument is that you are certain you are right about things which can not even be proven. The ego arguably does not even exist, it is simply used to represent certain aspects of our psyche. There is no actual place in the human brain where the ego specifically rests.

Laugh till you die.



What does it matter if the ego exist or not?

Fact is, people laugh at each other because they feel better than the victim.

Here's the sound part of your argument- Humour is laughing at other organisms. Perhaps that may sound bad to you, but i dont think so. Could be bad, could not be.

Finding confidence in imbecile. Glorification of idiotic.

Ultimately, whenever someone gives you a good point that challenges the idea that humour is destructive, you start referring to unconscious forces that can not be proved nor disproved such as the ego being fed and that a baby feels heroism when it looks at the sky and laughs. You've also completely ignored the positive effects of humour.

Show me an example where humour is not destructive.

It's obvious the baby feels heroic when laughing as laughing is a defense mechanism against the fragility of existence, surely you can't disagree with this?

The positive effects of humour is based on negative effects of another.


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18767595 - 08/28/13 08:37 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

In my opinion laughter is the vocal manifestation of an emotion, if you take away our language and revert back to apish grunts laughter still has its part. That part doesn't necessarily communicate what you're suggesting in OP, as often as not laughter is completely innocent.

Why must we always compare ourselves to the past?

Learn from it and avoid it, its repetitive pattern is clearly not working. Laughter is by all means making fun of organisms unless you have factual examples of the opposite. Nor is there any novelty in laughing. People in masses laugh at the exact same situations over and over again.

When a friend of mine walks in the room I laugh because I'm happy to see them

Because you find them silly IMO. Or you have had many such moments with them, making fun of organisms together.

Now you will feed your defense mechanism or shield through or with/at your friends on the behalf of idiocity.


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge] * 3
    #18767702 - 08/28/13 09:21 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

In my opinion you're assuming a lot without much ground to stand on. The word novelty doesn't mean much to me, but poetry does. Life isn't black and white, there can be a million emotions behind a laugh.

How many variations can one make with 7 notes?

On first glance there isn't much to the chromatic scale, especially when its reduced to 7, 5, or 3 notes being examined at a time. A melodic sequence might read: C E G C D E E G
Very plain but that could be any song, if you look at the math and forget that there is poetry which gives the numbers life and meaning then there is no understanding.


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18767895 - 08/28/13 10:21 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

In my opinion you're assuming a lot without much ground to stand on. The word novelty doesn't mean much to me, but poetry does. Life isn't black and white, there can be a million emotions behind a laugh.

I have shown proof and logic approach to back up my statements, now it's your turn to prove me wrong.

What do you laugh at when you see your friends come into the room?

How many variations can one make with 7 notes?

On first glance there isn't much to the chromatic scale, especially when its reduced to 7, 5, or 3 notes being examined at a time. A melodic sequence might read: C E G C D E E G
Very plain but that could be any song, if you look at the math and forget that there is poetry which gives the numbers life and meaning then there is no understanding.


This was too complicated for me, please elaborate more simple.


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge] * 1
    #18767992 - 08/28/13 11:03 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I, by and large, agree with op.
I think in all cases it would be an intelligent evolution to direct swap out silliness/humor/glorification of stupidity for compassion.
I would be interested to obtain data in humans detailing their affinity towards one or the other and how they are mutually exclusive or not.
Seems to me that it may be a logical thought pattern to assume those using the mechanism of humor(which is ultimately at another organisms expense) may be devoid of compassion.
Wih rational thought humor can be diminished nd compassion traded in flux.
I see how SILLY it has been for most to assume how serious and boring we would be without laughter. Nonsense. Take away laughter and you still have a caring and comforting smile, tears of joy, and prob many Other ways we can healthily show our positive feelings.
Great thought provoking thread LL.
Cheers


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: ashfiken]
    #18768012 - 08/28/13 11:11 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

:thumbup:


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18768049 - 08/28/13 11:29 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Merely to boost your own ego or confidence. That you're somehow right since I am weaker than yourself.

Not at all. I suffer from depression. I just think its important to see how it can affect your mind.

What does "access raw emotion" then mean?

To tap into the subconscious, where some of our strongest, unrestrained feelings are held.

Quote:

stupidity amongst humans is not acceptable




Yes it is, to an extent. so long as isn't harmful. It's certainly not desirable, but it's accepted.

What does it matter if the ego exist or not?

Fact is, people laugh at each other because they feel better than the victim.


You were the one who brought ego into it. Several of your explanations for humour being destructive have been based around the ego. Seems pretty important for your argument.

Finding confidence in imbecile. Glorification of idiotic.
Okay. you've said that many times. :rolleyes:
Yes okay. That's one way of looking at humour. That's one way of saying this is what its all about.

Show me an example where humour is not destructive.

I can, but at the same time i can't. The reason i can't is because any example i give you will claim is destructive, for reasons that cannot be proven nor disproved. You are taking one way of looking at humour and claiming it as its raison d etre.

It's obvious the baby feels heroic when laughing as laughing is a defense mechanism against the fragility of existence, surely you can't disagree with this?


Hahaha of course i can! Can you read a babies mind? It is just your opinion laughing is a defence mechanism against the fragility of life! Even if it is a defence mechanism, it is again just your opinion that defence mechanisms are harmful.

I don't think i've ever met a person who has been so sure of their views that they don't have the politeness to at least occasionally say "i think that" as opposed to just stating their own views like facts. Its just nice to acknowledge that matters of the mind are subjective.


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18770265 - 08/28/13 08:07 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
In my opinion you're assuming a lot without much ground to stand on. The word novelty doesn't mean much to me, but poetry does. Life isn't black and white, there can be a million emotions behind a laugh.

I have shown proof and logic approach to back up my statements, now it's your turn to prove me wrong.

What do you laugh at when you see your friends come into the room?

How many variations can one make with 7 notes?

On first glance there isn't much to the chromatic scale, especially when its reduced to 7, 5, or 3 notes being examined at a time. A melodic sequence might read: C E G C D E E G
Very plain but that could be any song, if you look at the math and forget that there is poetry which gives the numbers life and meaning then there is no understanding.


This was too complicated for me, please elaborate more simple.




Most of the time there isn't an object to laugh at, the act of laughing being only an expression like a smile. Most of the time I don't smile at anything either, it is only an expression of a mood.

The musical analogy. If you take the melody of a song and write it out, even if we're talking about classical music which is very detailed, the math tells us little about the music. Its the poetry in music which gives it life and meaning, not the math.
With laughter its the same, its a means for expressing emotion not an emotion in itself, anymore than the notes which one expresses themselves through is an emotion.

On another point laughter is physiologically good for you and its not a behavior limited to humans


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Offlineomegafaust
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18770408 - 08/28/13 08:35 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Op says he takes humour for what it is, yet he seems completely blind of its true purposes. 

obviously op has been ridiculed his whole life and so takes offense to other peoples enjoyment.

you will have a very sour soul op if you don't give in to the joys of life.

i would argue humour is an instinct.  laughing relieves stress which when unchecked puts stress on your genes, whivh results in abnormalities, sickness, cancer.

so we use humour in a way to regulate stress as previously stated.  much like yawning, which alerts others to your mental clarity, humour is important.


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: omegafaust]
    #18770647 - 08/28/13 09:22 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

omegafaust said:
Op says he takes humour for what it is, yet he seems completely blind of its true purposes. 

obviously op has been ridiculed his whole life and so takes offense to other peoples enjoyment.

you will have a very sour soul op if you don't give in to the joys of life.

i would argue humour is an instinct.  laughing relieves stress which when unchecked puts stress on your genes, whivh results in abnormalities, sickness, cancer.

so we use humour in a way to regulate stress as previously stated.  much like yawning, which alerts others to your mental clarity, humour is important.




Can we at least spell it humor?

Honestly that's a wall of text.  I couldn't begin to pretend to decipher this thread.  What's funny to me is probably super offensive to the next person.  Of course that's probably been hashed and rehashed. 

OP gives people what he thinks are friendly looks, and they flip him the bird.  Nuff said.


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Offlineomegafaust
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #18772230 - 08/29/13 09:30 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Humour is preffered in every non american english areas.  we lazy americans just like being lazy speaking so get over it.

and if you mean that my comment is a wall of text, i assure there are worse "walls of text" in this thread.

It's like No one can read anymore, or they're too lazy to.

And op has only denied the fact that he may be wrong and
that someone can actually enjoy in humor, (happy?), without
Belittling an organism -_-

so of course
everyone
will flip
him off
if not
for
their own
humour

Is that easy enough for you to read?


--------------------
The Universe has an interesting sense of irony, in that you are the universe experiencing itself.  All you are is a thought.


Edited by omegafaust (08/29/13 09:36 AM)


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Invisibleliquidlounge

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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: jimiandtheshroom27]
    #18782136 - 08/31/13 05:24 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

jimiandtheshroom27 said:
Merely to boost your own ego or confidence. That you're somehow right since I am weaker than yourself.

Not at all. I suffer from depression. I just think its important to see how it can affect your mind.

What does "access raw emotion" then mean?

To tap into the subconscious, where some of our strongest, unrestrained feelings are held.

Quote:

stupidity amongst humans is not acceptable




Yes it is, to an extent. so long as isn't harmful. It's certainly not desirable, but it's accepted.

What does it matter if the ego exist or not?

Fact is, people laugh at each other because they feel better than the victim.


You were the one who brought ego into it. Several of your explanations for humour being destructive have been based around the ego. Seems pretty important for your argument.

Finding confidence in imbecile. Glorification of idiotic.
Okay. you've said that many times. :rolleyes:
Yes okay. That's one way of looking at humour. That's one way of saying this is what its all about.

Show me an example where humour is not destructive.

I can, but at the same time i can't. The reason i can't is because any example i give you will claim is destructive, for reasons that cannot be proven nor disproved. You are taking one way of looking at humour and claiming it as its raison d etre.

It's obvious the baby feels heroic when laughing as laughing is a defense mechanism against the fragility of existence, surely you can't disagree with this?


Hahaha of course i can! Can you read a babies mind? It is just your opinion laughing is a defence mechanism against the fragility of life! Even if it is a defence mechanism, it is again just your opinion that defence mechanisms are harmful.

I don't think i've ever met a person who has been so sure of their views that they don't have the politeness to at least occasionally say "i think that" as opposed to just stating their own views like facts. Its just nice to acknowledge that matters of the mind are subjective.




We're walking around in circles IMO.

I have yet to see anything substantial from your side.


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Edited by liquidlounge (09/01/13 02:36 PM)


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Invisibleliquidlounge

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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18782157 - 08/31/13 05:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Most of the time there isn't an object to laugh at, the act of laughing being only an expression like a smile. Most of the time I don't smile at anything either, it is only an expression of a mood.



Not sure if you're sincere now. I have never experienced laughing at 'nothingness', nor have I ever felt 'nothingness'. There are always mental pictures in your head, these are based on your surroundings.

I always express moods in accordance with my thoughts which are based on my surroundings.


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18782559 - 08/31/13 07:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Ultimately, it's all about laughing at organisms.

Finding confidence in imbecile. Glorification of idiotic.

I suppose laughing with the genius is sane but even then, you're laughing at other organisms as subjective metric. Unless you take everything with you into eden.




I don't know if it is so much laughing at organisms as it is laughing at our innate stupidity.


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18783908 - 09/01/13 02:00 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Anyone who has ever done a laughter meditation will know that even with the eyes closed, laying on the back, there is always a source of joy inside all of us that can be tapped into. Causing very free laughter.

(This is coming from the former biggest skeptic of those meditations; until I joined in one obviously)


Edited by GoldenEye (09/01/13 02:03 AM)


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Offlinejimiandtheshroom27
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18785542 - 09/01/13 02:25 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I don't think we could come to any conclusion anyway, even if showed you my "side", i think we just have too different feelings towards humour, i think any positive effect i could list you would rebut. I guess my simple argument would be that, yes although some humour is nasty, humour can often cause more happiness through laughter than than the small amount of damage it could potentially do to a human's ego. Say someone makes a joke about how big my head is. its true i may not find it as funny as others do, but i can laugh at myself and the small damage done to the ego is just not proportionate to the happiness caused by the joke. providing the joke is funny of course. people can go too far, and its important to question why we laugh. Good comedy shows often make you do just that, by adding a scene where you ask yourself whether you should laugh or not


--------------------
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City of Night, City of Night,
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18785555 - 09/01/13 02:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

GoldenEye said:
Anyone who has ever done a laughter meditation will know that even with the eyes closed, laying on the back, there is always a source of joy inside all of us that can be tapped into. Causing very free laughter.

(This is coming from the former biggest skeptic of those meditations; until I joined in one obviously)




Yeah, that's right!

There are other phenomena that you can "tap" into as well, and these phenomena are often called chakra's, energy centers, Dan Tiens, among other things.


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: teknix]
    #18785601 - 09/01/13 02:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

GoldenEye said:
Anyone who has ever done a laughter meditation will know that even with the eyes closed, laying on the back, there is always a source of joy inside all of us that can be tapped into. Causing very free laughter.

(This is coming from the former biggest skeptic of those meditations; until I joined in one obviously)




Yeah, that's right!

There are other phenomena that you can "tap" into as well, and these phenomena are often called chakra's, energy centers, Dan Tiens, among other things.




I realised upon re-reading that this has nothing to do with humor...

For me, humor can be quite healing as well. Especially when used to mock yourself.

By not taking myself seriously I have felt great relief and more freedom to act impulsively and instinctively. It has made me happier.

In summary, I like to put the joke on myself. It makes other people laugh with you and is appearently also a sign of confidence towards the other gender.

Try it :smile:


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OfflineYukon Cornelius
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge] * 2
    #18785887 - 09/01/13 03:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

First time post, felt compelled after years of lurking the forum to comment on this.

The op seems to not understand something very fundamental about humor. I'll use an example from a context that has nothing to do with ego, self delusion, or lack of compassion for the plight of an "organism".

A man is huddled around a fire in the jungle alone, feels fearful and anxious when he hears a rustling in the bushes. Under the current circumstance he expects a large predator to be lurking just beyond his sight, but when the source of the noise reveals itself its a harmless squirrel. Man laughs...

Its when a presumed context that creates an expectation is drastically different in its conclusion than what assumed prior to it happening. Set up, and punchline in an evolutionary nutshell.

Of course many forms of humor rely on a much more complex structure(stream of consciousness, word play etc.) but the generalization of it relying solely on idiotic behavior and enjoyment at the expense of others is a logical fallacy.

I'm not trying to assume anything here about the op, just presenting what argument he has against humor and a blatant flaw in its conclusion based on what evidence he has posed.


--------------------
"I didn't know chicken's wore suspenders" - Towelie



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Re: [Re: Yukon Cornelius] * 1
    #18788082 - 09/02/13 02:23 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Yukon Cornelius said:
First time post, felt compelled after years of lurking the forum to comment on this.

The op seems to not understand something very fundamental about humor. I'll use an example from a context that has nothing to do with ego, self delusion, or lack of compassion for the plight of an "organism".

A man is huddled around a fire in the jungle alone, feels fearful and anxious when he hears a rustling in the bushes. Under the current circumstance he expects a large predator to be lurking just beyond his sight, but when the source of the noise reveals itself its a harmless squirrel. Man laughs...

Its when a presumed context that creates an expectation is drastically different in its conclusion than what assumed prior to it happening. Set up, and punchline in an evolutionary nutshell.

Of course many forms of humor rely on a much more complex structure(stream of consciousness, word play etc.) but the generalization of it relying solely on idiotic behavior and enjoyment at the expense of others is a logical fallacy.

I'm not trying to assume anything here about the op, just presenting what argument he has against humor and a blatant flaw in its conclusion based on what evidence he has posed.




This is another great example of harmless laughter. But is there humor involved? I think the example is just as irrelevant as my previous laughter meditation example turned out to be. I think OP's definition of 'humor' is pretty narrow and quite close to 'jokes'.

In that sense, the squirrel would have to take offense at the laughter for OP's theory to hold. If the squirrel was human he might have taken offense for being underestimated. Or he would simply join in the laughter because he managed to scare the shit out of the jungle man, even though he is utterly harmless!

It all depends on your own attitude I think.

If you make jokes, you should be able to take the joke being on you as well.

Maybe it is also an ethical discussion.

It matters whether OP believes in virtue ethics or normative ethics.

If OP holds normative ethical values he might not joke about others because he doesn't like to be joked about, hence the thought that all humor is destructive.

If OP holds virtue ethical values he might joke a lot about others, causing as much laughter as he can in as big a group of people as he can. The benefits of the caused laughter outweigh the caused destruction to the one who the joke is on. In a virtue ethical respect, humor would be constructive.

I've said everything I have to say in this thread now. Shit, I'm probably even taking this thread to seriously and should have just joked about it :smile:


Edited by GoldenEye (09/02/13 02:29 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18788109 - 09/02/13 02:46 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I've liked all your posts so far.  Welcome to the fun house. :thumbup::braindamage:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Invisibleliquidlounge

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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: Yukon Cornelius]
    #18788662 - 09/02/13 08:08 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

A man is huddled around a fire in the jungle alone, feels fearful and anxious when he hears a rustling in the bushes. Under the current circumstance he expects a large predator to be lurking just beyond his sight, but when the source of the noise reveals itself its a harmless squirrel. Man laughs...

Obviously this man will laugh at another man experiencing similar. "Thank fuck I was not the one that made a fool of myself this time!"

Also, ego is boosted through something that is less than himself.


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge] * 2
    #18788818 - 09/02/13 09:22 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
A man is huddled around a fire in the jungle alone, feels fearful and anxious when he hears a rustling in the bushes. Under the current circumstance he expects a large predator to be lurking just beyond his sight, but when the source of the noise reveals itself its a harmless squirrel. Man laughs...

Obviously this man will laugh at another man experiencing similar. "Thank fuck I was not the one that made a fool of myself this time!"

Also, ego is boosted through something that is less than himself.




:rolleyes:


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Offlineomegafaust
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: Repertoire89] * 2
    #18789041 - 09/02/13 10:28 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Yout argument is falling apart liquid lounge.  i have seen so many validations that humor is creative rather than destructive.

we can all see your idealogy and logic.  however your perspective seems to be different than the masses. 

as such i suggest you declare a much more valid point or agree to the fact that humor is not nearly as destructive as you say.

i laugh at a kitten when it lets out a tiny mew.  not because i am making fun of said kitten, or because I find that kittens existence less valuable or meaningful than my own.  I life because a wave of emotions that correspond to happy memories has flooded my brain.


The basis for your argument is flawed and unspecific.


--------------------
The Universe has an interesting sense of irony, in that you are the universe experiencing itself.  All you are is a thought.


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Invisibleliquidlounge

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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: omegafaust]
    #18789281 - 09/02/13 11:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

i laugh at a kitten when it lets out a tiny mew.  not because i am making fun of said kitten, or because I find that kittens existence less valuable or meaningful than my own.  I life because a wave of emotions that correspond to happy memories has flooded my brain.

So you laugh that the kitten is alive and is thus sharing your pain. Well, that it's there to comfort your misery. What are these memories of?

I have never laughed out of sheer happiness, maybe it's just me. :shrug:


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Offlineomegafaust
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18789677 - 09/02/13 12:39 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

No thought of misery is involved.  i am happy the kitten is alive and that i am also alive to witness and experience tue glory that is life. 

get over your negativity man.


--------------------
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Invisibleliquidlounge

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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: omegafaust]
    #18789938 - 09/02/13 01:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

No thought of misery is involved.  i am happy the kitten is alive and that i am also alive to witness and experience tue glory that is life.

You don't know whether the kitten is enjoying existence - baseless and very egoistical laughing in other words.

get over your negativity man.

Suspiciousness. Not sure I'll ever get over it, at least not in these circumstances, it's been inside me since day one.


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...


Edited by liquidlounge (09/02/13 01:29 PM)


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18790285 - 09/02/13 02:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I'm steering away from humor and jokes again. I'm once again steering towards laughter because that tends to be the main result of humor and jokes:

Did you ever contemplate on the differences/equalities of laughter and crying?

It's quite interesting how similar they are...

They are both defense mechanisms and ways to relief anxiety/fear.

In babies it is sometimes rather impossible to tell if you're dealing with laughter or crying. They use exactly the same muscles producing the same expression. Just the tears and the sounds may be different.

Just a thought I'd wanted to plant in your head. Not really jumping to any conclusions from it.


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18790745 - 09/02/13 04:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I think your statement is misguided.  the ideas of humour you put forth are a direct result of something some of us have experienced a loss of.  our egos.  these perceptions we apply or assume effect our behaviors.  to say the ego is destructive can be argued, but something that is merely a byproduct which isn't always negative in aspect is destructive because.of our objectivity to it is pushing it.


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18791251 - 09/02/13 06:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Ultimately, it's all about laughing at organisms.

Finding confidence in imbecile. Glorification of idiotic.

I suppose laughing with the genius is sane but even then, you're laughing at other organisms as subjective metric. Unless you take everything with you into eden.




I don't think it's so much idiocy but rather futility. Everybody is spending most of their energy to avoid dying, and yet it's a given. The idiot is an obtuse and obvious form of futility but I find everyone funny in their own way. I'm not sure futility is the very best way to generalize humor because I can think of other types of humor, but I do agree that all humor is destructive if it's good.


--------------------
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Offlinejvm
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: Icelander]
    #18799868 - 09/04/13 04:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

laughter expels accumulated energy from excited stimulation. There are some things that are useful to overanalyze and laughter certainly isn't one of them.

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Ultimately, it's all about laughing at organisms.

Finding confidence in imbecile. Glorification of idiotic.

I suppose laughing with the genius is sane but even then, you're laughing at other organisms as subjective metric. Unless you take everything with you into eden.



:curbyourenthusiasm::haha:





exactly


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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: jvm]
    #18799987 - 09/04/13 04:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Interesting thread, but I can't help but feel the OP is trolling.

OP, I must ask: how do you define humor? Seems to me that different people find different things to be funny. You talk about how you don't find things funny when you analyze them. I, on the other hand, frequently find things funnier when they're over-rationalized, or when normally over-complicated matters are stated with concise simplicity (as in the writings of Kurt Vonnegut, or Haruki Murakami). Humor is an irrational business but not a necessarily destructive one; clearly we're not an entirely rational species and laughter is a *usually* harmless outlet for some of our stranger compulsions.


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