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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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"Humour is destructive!"?
#18758656 - 08/26/13 06:54 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ultimately, it's all about laughing at organisms.
Finding confidence in imbecile. Glorification of idiotic.
I suppose laughing with the genius is sane but even then, you're laughing at other organisms as subjective metric. Unless you take everything with you into eden.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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jimiandtheshroom27
Lost in endless spirals.


Registered: 04/25/13
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Humour isn't necessarily a glorification of the idiotic, although it can be. I think humour is way of acknowledging the idiotic parts of the mind. Humans can be very silly, as can other organisms. It's tempting to try and simplify humour and say its just laughing at organisms. Yes, it can be simplified into those terms, but humour encapsulates so many different types of jokes. Often humour can be helpful as a means of laughing at what humans don't want to be- comedic tv programmes can allow us to watch the actions of a fictional character and, as an example, laugh at the clear lack of judgement they show(maybe they're being xenophobic or afraid to have a good time). And organisms are life! what else would we laugh at if not the life around us? Admittedly some humour is destructive. Often mob psychology humour, where we laugh at something or someone simply because everyone else does. But other types of humour serve many purposes for the human psyche. Finding humour in situations can help people enjoy their everyday lives much more. Dark humour can be a way of integrating the morbid into the psyche and accepting the viciousness of life. We can laugh at something without without wishing harm or causing it. We can laugh at the lack of intelligence of other animals, without bearing ill will towards them. Finding humour in something isn't destructive. Judging is destructive, for the only one who you judge is yourself .
-------------------- Are you a lucky little lady in the City of Light Or just another lost angel? City of Night, City of Night, City of Night, City of Night, woo, c'mon
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Yes, it can be simplified into those terms, but humour encapsulates so many different types of jokes. Often humour can be helpful as a means of laughing at what humans don't want to be- comedic tv programmes can allow us to watch the actions of a fictional character and, as an example, laugh at the clear lack of judgement they show(maybe they're being xenophobic or afraid to have a good time).
Finding confidence in imbecile.
what else would we laugh at if not the life around us?
Why would we laugh when we analyze what we actually laugh at? I don't see any reason to laugh when I use my brain and question humour to the very core.
Admittedly some humour is destructive. Often mob psychology humour, where we laugh at something or someone simply because everyone else does. But other types of humour serve many purposes for the human psyche.
Please provide examples of humour where the ego does not feed off ego's and their misery.
Finding humour in situations can help people enjoy their everyday lives much more.
Certainly, just like I look more handsome than my neighbor.
Dark humour can be a way of integrating the morbid into the psyche and accepting the viciousness of life. We can laugh at something without without wishing harm or causing it.
It's definitely an effective shield, that's why it's so destructive.
We can laugh at the lack of intelligence of other animals, without bearing ill will towards them.
Why would you laugh at the lack of intelligence in other organisms?
Finding humour in something isn't destructive. Judging is destructive, for the only one who you judge is yourself .
Give me an example of humour where you're not judging someone or something.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge] 1
#18758900 - 08/26/13 09:05 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
liquidlounge said: Ultimately, it's all about laughing at organisms.
Finding confidence in imbecile. Glorification of idiotic.
I suppose laughing with the genius is sane but even then, you're laughing at other organisms as subjective metric. Unless you take everything with you into eden.

-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Into The Woods
Quarantine King


Registered: 04/20/13
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: Icelander]
#18758943 - 08/26/13 09:20 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I've heard that sometimes laughter is the emotional response when the brain makes a connection it hasn't made before, of something unexpected that we find relates to us in some way or another.
Sounds right in some cases.
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jimiandtheshroom27
Lost in endless spirals.


Registered: 04/25/13
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What is wrong with finding confidence in imbecile? Do you believe all human behaviour should be analysed? Humour by nature is a fast thing, an instant reaction. Do you analyse saying "hello" to someone when you say it? Simple jokes are examples of such humour. I fail to see how basic jokes such as knock knock jokes represent the ego feeding off other ego's and their misery. No that's not the kind of thing i mean at all. What about finding humour in yourself, laughing at yourself? You try and find a location and pass a road several times, going in circles, only to discover that the place you were looking for was on that road and so you laugh at the situation.
Yes, you can view it as shield. If you apply that logic to other areas off life, everything's a shield. We are all trying to find things to keep us busy, things to cling to because we need things to do whilst we wait for death.
You are applying a rational mind to to humour, which by its very nature is irrational. Humans are irrational. I might laugh at the silliness of a dog because on some level I find joy in the sheer complexity of life, that some animals are less intelligent than others, bigger smaller. I think this is why laughter can be so prominent on mushroom trips, because the sheer complexity and miraculousness of the world becomes clearer to you. Of course this is just a theory- its true i dont consciously think that when i laugh at the silly dog. Nor is the dog actually silly. If anything, i am silly for laughing at the dog. The notion of the dog being silly is a creation of my own mind. Lots of humour belongs to the subconscious. Often we laugh without thinking.
Okay. Puns. "I'm reading a book about anti-gravity. It's impossible to put down."
-------------------- Are you a lucky little lady in the City of Light Or just another lost angel? City of Night, City of Night, City of Night, City of Night, woo, c'mon
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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What is wrong with finding confidence in imbecile?
The measurement in which you compare yourself too and obviously contributing towards humans currently horrible culture of losers.
Do you believe all human behaviour should be analysed? Humour by nature is a fast thing, an instant reaction.
Why should it not? Fast way to pleasure you say? 
Do you analyse saying "hello" to someone when you say it?
Yes, this is how I improve myself. My measurement should lie within myself.
Simple jokes are examples of such humour. I fail to see how basic jokes such as knock knock jokes represent the ego feeding off other ego's and their misery.
Knock knock jokes are definitely glorifying silliness and thus feed off misery. Both ego's are feeding off each other.
What about finding humour in yourself, laughing at yourself? You try and find a location and pass a road several times, going in circles, only to discover that the place you were looking for was on that road and so you laugh at the situation.
Still glorifying silliness or lack of awareness, not being focused if you want.
Yes, you can view it as shield. If you apply that logic to other areas off life, everything's a shield. We are all trying to find things to keep us busy, things to cling to because we need things to do whilst we wait for death.
And shields towards death are illusions based on death anxiety.
I want to take life for what it is and work from there.
You are applying a rational mind to to humour, which by its very nature is irrational. Humans are irrational.
Do humans want to be irrational if they knew rationality? I think it's easy to see why humans prefer 2 + 2 to equal 4, not 5 and thus take a step in direction towards creating electricity as an example.
I might laugh at the silliness of a dog because on some level I find joy in the sheer complexity of life, that some animals are less intelligent than others, bigger smaller.
You laugh because you feel better than the dog. Your happiness lies in the misery of the dog compared to yourself, in your opinion. If not, I would like to hear why.
The notion of the dog being silly is a creation of my own mind.
Do you want your mind to create silliness?
Often we laugh without thinking.
You're always thinking while being conscious, however, I am sure you think much less and more simple when not thinking things through. Do you want to merely act on instincts?
"I'm reading a book about anti-gravity. It's impossible to put down."
Glorification of silliness or stupidity.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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Penelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic



Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 8,535
Loc: magic sugarcastle
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Quote:
liquidlounge said: Ultimately, it's all about laughing at organisms.
So what? Even if that were true, it isn't good evidence that humor is only destructive.
Quote:
liquidlounge said: Do you want your mind to create silliness?
Sometimes, I do.
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
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So what? Even if that were true, it isn't good evidence that humor is only destructive.
There's a difference between laughing with people and at people. However, laughing with people is ultimately directed at someone or something. I would like you to present examples if you don't agree.
It's a nonchalant and arrogant approach to existence, feeling of superiority a dangerous shield.
Sometimes, I do.
This is beyond me - how one want's to be silly. Pretending to be stupid only to come out of it knowing you're not that stupid. Indirectly ridiculing your surroundings.
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Penelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic



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So I guess you're above finding humour in things? That seems pretty arrogant.
"However, laughing with people is ultimately directed at someone or something."
So what?
I think life is more about feeling itself out, rather than like a video game where there are boundaries you cannot cross and correct sequences of buttons to press. So maybe laughter and humour are an ego game.. well, we all have egos. There can be play in that and it doesn't have to be malicious or about superiority in the end. It can be about having humility and learning your place in life. Int his way it is constructive, not destructive as you suggest.
Quote:
liquidlounge said: This is beyond me - how one want's to be silly. Pretending to be stupid only to come out of it knowing you're not that stupid. Indirectly ridiculing your surroundings.
Silly and stupid are two different things. You seem to be glossing over the subtleties and into extremes.
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
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So I guess you're above finding humour in things? That seems pretty arrogant.
Above? If people want to laugh, go ahead, I take humour for what it is. 
So what?
Do you want people to laugh at you?
Maybe you don't care because you have never truly felt it on your skin. There are countless people "below" yourself in the fucked up Western hierarchy we live in. Culture of stupidity, humour is one of the greatest contributors.
I think life is more about feeling itself out, rather than like a video game where there are boundaries you cannot cross and correct sequences of buttons to press. So maybe laughter and humour are an ego game.. well, we all have egos. There can be play in that and it doesn't have to be malicious or about superiority in the end. It can be about having humility and learning your place in life. Int his way it is constructive, not destructive as you suggest.
How is humour about humility? Laughing at yourself and pretending to be stupid? That's all about humility. 
Show me an example of sane humour.
Silly and stupid are two different things.
Silly:
1. Exhibiting a lack of wisdom or good sense; foolish.
Stupid:
2. Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
Edited by liquidlounge (08/26/13 01:24 PM)
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Penelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic



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So when the dalai lama is laughing, he's doing so because he's arrogant? When a parent is acting silly with their child, they're "pretending to be stupid"?

It seems your main problem is with control and lack thereof. If someone is making a joke out of you, then you perceive little control over the situation. Presumably, that means the one in control is making the jokes, not being the butt of them. I don't think that's true, though - just check out political satire.
I think some of the wisest people are comedians. They see through bullshit and straight to the human psyche.
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jimiandtheshroom27
Lost in endless spirals.


Registered: 04/25/13
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How ironic it is that you state: The measurement in which you compare yourself too and obviously contributing towards humans currently horrible culture of losers. In other words, it is wrong to compare yourself to imbecility, right?
Yet you yourself do just that. Quote:
contributing towards humans currently horrible culture of losers.
Didn't you say Quote:
My measurement should lie within myself.
You judge other humans and see at least some of them as inferior in their ways to you. Its interesting that you should claim humour as such a destructive thing whilst harbouring such cynical views of your own species. Fast way to pleasure you say? i don't see how what you said there follows what i said. And yes, certainly the fast way to pleasure if its benign, harmless. What human would reject happiness if they could obtain it with no harm to anyone?
Do you analyse saying "hello" to someone when you say it?
Yes, this is how I improve myself. My measurement should lie within myself. No. You don't. If you analysed everything fully you said before you said it, you would not be able to have a conversation.
Knock knock jokes are definitely glorifying silliness and thus feed off misery. c'mon man. What is so wrong with silliness? Are you afraid to be silly?
Quote:
And shields towards death are illusions based on death anxiety.
Is that not your own shield? Everyone had shields. You cannot pretend you did not fear death until you were able to learn about why you shouldn't fear it. Death is a complete unknown. It is possible we should have reason to fear death.
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I want to take life for what it is and work from there.
It sounds great but what does it mean?
Quote:
Do humans want to be irrational if they knew rationality?
Of course! As you say rationality is very important for understanding the world around us and manipulating it to our advantage. But in the human mind, we don't want to take ourselves so seriously, to do so is to deny an aspect of our psyche. Jung wrote excellently about how we must acknowledge and integrate all the parts of our psyche. Irrationality is one of the shadows of the human psyche- we may not like to recognise we have it, but we simply are irrational at times. Humour is a means of integrating it.
You laugh because you feel better than the dog. Your happiness lies in the misery of the dog compared to yourself, in your opinion. If not, I would like to hear why. I'll admit you are making me think hard about why i laugh. I certainly don't laugh at the misery of the dog compared to me. Yes, i guess its true. I do laugh at the dog in relation to myself, in the sense that the only reason i can find it funny is because i am cleverer than the dog. But surely there is a difference between laughing at the dog's misery in comparison to myself and laughing at it because i know that the dog is less clever and is doing something silly. Your use of the word misery makes it the point moot anyway, i dont laugh at misery, i laugh at differences. Do you want your mind to create silliness? God yes Nothing is truly silly. Even silliness has meaning. silliness is the just the counter to rationality.
You're always thinking while being conscious, however, I am sure you think much less and more simple when not thinking things through. Hmm it depends how you define thinking. if you mean thinking as in knowing what you are thinking about then no, we are not constantly thinking whilst conscious.
Do you want to merely act on instincts? You mean constantly? No and i dont see how enjoying humour means i only act on instinct. If you mean sometimes, yes of course i do. Acting on instinct can do marvellous things at times. When you are talking about something like quick humour, i would argue you are talking about a part of the subconscious that isn't part of instinct anyway. Yes its quick, but instincts i see as something more natural rather than conditioned.
Quote:
Glorification of silliness or stupidity.
When you say this, you are again showing that you yourself judge, and hold outside people and things as lower than yourself. the very word stupidity has a negative connotation. You have attacked humour for how it judges organisms, and supposedly feeds the ego. Do you not do the same when you see humour as something stupid and irrational, and call your fellow humans "losers?"
-------------------- Are you a lucky little lady in the City of Light Or just another lost angel? City of Night, City of Night, City of Night, City of Night, woo, c'mon
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LuxLuthier
agnosticator

Registered: 08/20/13
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A couple of days ago I had what seemed at the time to be the worst day of my life; everything went completely wrong until finally one event became the cherry on top of it all.
When this disaster hit I felt a complete surge of humor and laughter welling up through me, as though a strange kind of alchemy took place as the cumulative effects of the stress became transcendental. I laughed uncontrollably, because I became aware of an essential humor that seemed to be present throughout the universe, woven like a single golden thread through a white rug that wasn't apparent until I fell on my face and saw it from my new, humbling perspective.
In fact, humor is always present whenever I have an 'aha' moment and come to a point of greater understanding. Not to sound cheesy or redundant, but to me humor has always been intimately tied with love and understanding. Am I mad? Am I glorifying the ridiculous? I can't be certain as the idea of humor eludes my own logical scrutiny, but I know that it feels great and has zero harmful side effects.
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
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So when the dalai lama is laughing, he's doing so because he's arrogant?
What is Dalai Lama laughing at? Show me an example of him laughing without looking down on something or someone.
When a parent is acting silly with their child, they're "pretending to be stupid"?
Pretending to be more stupid or on the same level as the child. Illusion.
"Soon enough, you will grow up to be more complex than myself and I will do whatever it takes for that to happen/survive, here's some of my ego."
It seems your main problem is with control and lack thereof. If someone is making a joke out of you, then you perceive little control over the situation.
No, I work on questioning the opposite part why they would do such and explain in details what I feel about this and how it affects society as a whole. Then it gets quiet, unless they are drunk.
I think some of the wisest people are comedians. They see through bullshit and straight to the human psyche.
They mostly feed off insecurity, "weirdness" and stupidity.
If not, please share examples.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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Hobozen


Registered: 11/03/11
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Quote:
liquidlounge said: Why would we laugh when we analyze what we actually laugh at?
because it's funny in the heat of the moment.
Quote:
I don't see any reason to laugh when I use my brain and question humour to the very core.
laughter is often the spontaneous result of some connection I've made in my mind, as opposed to analyzation which seems to come more after the fact. i don't give myself reasons to laugh, i just laugh.
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Hobozen


Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 10,634
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Quote:
liquidlounge said: So when the dalai lama is laughing, he's doing so because he's arrogant?
What is Dalai Lama laughing at?
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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You judge other humans and see at least some of them as inferior in their ways to you. Its interesting that you should claim humour as such a destructive thing whilst harbouring such cynical views of your own species.
Culture built on winning and losing. I never said people were losers or at least I didn't mean to say so.
i don't see how what you said there follows what i said. And yes, certainly the fast way to pleasure if its benign, harmless.
There was a smiley at the end, of a smoker. Instant pleasure is just that, McDonalds and cigarettes - extreme example. But we know what it's in the long run.
No. You don't. If you analysed everything fully you said before you said it, you would not be able to have a conversation.
I am sorry, it looks like I didn't read your sentence properly. I analyze afterwards so that I improve myself for the next encounter. That said, I have to remember the 'hello' and it's thus correct to say that I somehow analyze in the moment as well.
Is that not your own shield? Everyone had shields.
Humour? No, I am trying to debate against humour, so this is certainly not my shield.
You cannot pretend you did not fear death until you were able to learn about why you shouldn't fear it.
First I fear pain, then years later I was well-versed in society and began fearing death as well.
Death is a complete unknown. It is possible we should have reason to fear death.
If death is complete unknown, why is there reason to fear death? Why would you fear what you don't know? Sounds irrational IMO.
It sounds great but what does it mean?
Objective approach.
But in the human mind, we don't want to take ourselves so seriously, to do so is to deny an aspect of our psyche.
Take ourselves seriously? When you're not laughing or acting silly, are you then taking yourself seriously?
Jung wrote excellently about how we must acknowledge and integrate all the parts of our psyche. Irrationality is one of the shadows of the human psyche- we may not like to recognise we have it, but we simply are irrational at times. Humour is a means of integrating it.
People simply laugh it off instead of getting to the bottom of it and try to eradicate it. Makes no sense IMO.
Surely you would rather want to be rational and not irrational? Why do you not work towards rationality instead of uncritically accepting existence?
I'll admit you are making me think hard about why i laugh.

I assume that is what you want?
I certainly don't laugh at the misery of the dog compared to me. Yes, i guess its true. I do laugh at the dog in relation to myself, in the sense that the only reason i can find it funny is because i am cleverer than the dog. But surely there is a difference between laughing at the dog's misery in comparison to myself and laughing at it because i know that the dog is less clever and is doing something silly. Your use of the word misery makes it the point moot anyway, i dont laugh at misery, i laugh at differences.
Do you laugh at the dog compared to yourself or not? If you do, I would say your laughter is your amusement of being more intelligent or clever than the less intelligent/clever dog. Thus feeding off its misery - in your mind. You want to be as intelligent and clever as possible, right?
God yes Nothing is truly silly. Even silliness has meaning. silliness is the just the counter to rationality.
Silliness is useless.
Hmm it depends how you define thinking. if you mean thinking as in knowing what you are thinking about then no, we are not constantly thinking whilst conscious.
You always have thoughts while being conscious. Close your eyes and meditate for an hour and you will still see black, this is a thought. There are always mental picture(s) inside your conscious mind.
You mean constantly? No and i dont see how enjoying humour means i only act on instinct. If you mean sometimes, yes of course i do. Acting on instinct can do marvellous things at times. When you are talking about something like quick humour, i would argue you are talking about a part of the subconscious that isn't part of instinct anyway. Yes its quick, but instincts i see as something more natural rather than conditioned.
Not thinking things through means acting on instincts IMO.
McDonald's and cigarettes.
When you say this, you are again showing that you yourself judge, and hold outside people and things as lower than yourself. the very word stupidity has a negative connotation. You have attacked humour for how it judges organisms, and supposedly feeds the ego. Do you not do the same when you see humour as something stupid and irrational, and call your fellow humans "losers?"
In what way do I judge when I observe people laughing at stupidity?
I never called humans losers but culture is built on winning and losing.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: Hobozen]
#18760365 - 08/26/13 04:30 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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because it's funny in the heat of the moment.
But is it funny when you think it through?
laughter is often the spontaneous result of some connection I've made in my mind, as opposed to analyzation which seems to come more after the fact. i don't give myself reasons to laugh, i just laugh.
Maybe you should question more and deeply so, why you laugh?
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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AWS
Working For MCA

Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 537
Loc: Cookieverse
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge] 2
#18760387 - 08/26/13 04:35 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
liquidlounge said: Maybe you should question more and deeply so, why you laugh? 
This thread is hilarious.
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