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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Greenhouse
#18757618 - 08/25/13 10:52 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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So a few weeks back I was going to build a greenhouse. For once I was kind of thankful I didnt have the funds because I found these two for the same if not cheaper than what I was going to build one for! http://www.ebay.com/itm/390649020460?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 http://www.ebay.com/itm/310698787244?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 I'm wondering if anyone has ever used one of these? If you happen to look at them they have 2 slightly different shapes. One ahs more of a rounded top while the other is slightly flatter it looks like it has more overall wall heighth which i think might be good. Would the more round one be better to avoid more condensation since it may be more likely to roll down the walls instead of stick on the ceiling? Also, anyone ever used one of these outside in hte winter? I knwo its a crazy question but I seen greenhouse heaters and was wondering if it's actually possible to keep one of these warm enough at least for the colder fruiting strains of oysters and whatever else. Thanks in advance for any input and I hope to order one of these models in the next few days since they ahve the exact dimensions I was looking at!
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Mangomankw
Key West Fun-Gi



Registered: 11/04/12
Posts: 180
Loc: Key west, FL
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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I am VERY new at this but most of what I have read says go for a curved top. That said I have a indoor set up made of PVC and foam board lined with foil on one side. My rooms are a room within a room basically and have flat tops. Thus far I have had not problems with moisture build up. I have been told by many here that when all is right with the Mush gods you should not have any build up....not there just yet. As for the outside use I am in Key West and it's just to hot here to attempt without very deep pockets for A/C. One thing I can say is take the amount of space you think you need....double it!! Not much but hope it helps.
-------------------- The Key West Fun-Gi!!!:
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Appreciate it, every bit! Thanks.
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Mycelium-yum
Stranger


Registered: 08/14/13
Posts: 141
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
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Quote:
CAP_TURTLE said: So a few weeks back I was going to build a greenhouse. For once I was kind of thankful I didnt have the funds because I found these two for the same if not cheaper than what I was going to build one for! http://www.ebay.com/itm/390649020460?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 http://www.ebay.com/itm/310698787244?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 I'm wondering if anyone has ever used one of these? If you happen to look at them they have 2 slightly different shapes. One ahs more of a rounded top while the other is slightly flatter it looks like it has more overall wall heighth which i think might be good. Would the more round one be better to avoid more condensation since it may be more likely to roll down the walls instead of stick on the ceiling? Also, anyone ever used one of these outside in hte winter? I knwo its a crazy question but I seen greenhouse heaters and was wondering if it's actually possible to keep one of these warm enough at least for the colder fruiting strains of oysters and whatever else. Thanks in advance for any input and I hope to order one of these models in the next few days since they ahve the exact dimensions I was looking at!
How low in temperature do your winters go?
-------------------- "Before researchers become researchers they should become philosophers.” -Masanobu Fukuoka.
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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they can get down to zero on the worst days but avg20-30 F
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HT_AlohaMed



Registered: 07/23/13
Posts: 103
Loc: USA
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Hi there,
I also suggest the curved top. It is a stronger structure, and if it snows where you live that will help it slide down. I am actually second in charge of a green house project, and we actively grow crops until late November to early December. At this point the heating becomes too expensive and we start planning for the spring and fundraising. We start up again in late February or early march. As long as you are willing to pay the heating bill, there is no reason you could not produce year round in a green house, but be wary it is not as easy, and may be more financially sound to move your operation indoors. You may also want to invest in some cold resistant strains. I can recommend some to you if you are interested. My region has about the same temperatures in the winter as you described above.
-------------------- Aloha Medicinals Carson City, NV
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Mycelium-yum
Stranger


Registered: 08/14/13
Posts: 141
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
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Shouldn't be a problem. You sQuote:
HT_AlohaMed said: Hi there,
I also suggest the curved top. It is a stronger structure, and if it snows where you live that will help it slide down. I am actually second in charge of a green house project, and we actively grow crops until late November to early December. At this point the heating becomes too expensive and we start planning for the spring and fundraising. We start up again in late February or early march. As long as you are willing to pay the heating bill, there is no reason you could not produce year round in a green house, but be wary it is not as easy, and may be more financially sound to move your operation indoors. You may also want to invest in some cold resistant strains. I can recommend some to you if you are interested. My region has about the same temperatures in the winter as you described above.
-------------------- "Before researchers become researchers they should become philosophers.” -Masanobu Fukuoka.
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Jeff
Addict



Registered: 10/06/12
Posts: 1,488
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
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The one you linked will not carry a snow load and they are not wind resistant at all. Unless you have a way to shelter it from wind and snow I would save your money. It is expensive to heat a greenhouse in the winter and difficult to maintain fae unless you have a heated intake.
-------------------- Myco-tek
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nanncee



Registered: 12/01/12
Posts: 434
Loc: Utah
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Re: Greenhouse [Re: Jeff]
#18762941 - 08/27/13 08:49 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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If you want a cheap structure that can be insulated and supported to hold a bit of snow weight look into double wall pvc hoop houses. There will probably be a good month or so in the middle of winter where things will be at a crawl, but like HT_alohamed said look into cold weather strains.
-------------------- I am a small scale farmer, come check out what we do. www.facebook.com/biocentricbros Check out our Youtube videos. www.youtube.com/biocentricbros
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Aleon
The Power of Our Origins



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 1,127
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: Greenhouse [Re: nanncee]
#18763001 - 08/27/13 09:16 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Use supports from the ground to the center purlin for the snow load; it worked for me with a PVC hoophouse through WI winters.
-------------------- Mushroom medicines available at: www.swordandshieldwellness.com
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nanncee



Registered: 12/01/12
Posts: 434
Loc: Utah
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Re: Greenhouse [Re: Aleon]
#18763007 - 08/27/13 09:18 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Aleon said: Use supports from the ground to the center purlin for the snow load; it worked for me with a PVC hoophouse through WI winters.
-------------------- I am a small scale farmer, come check out what we do. www.facebook.com/biocentricbros Check out our Youtube videos. www.youtube.com/biocentricbros
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: Greenhouse [Re: nanncee]
#18764374 - 08/27/13 03:06 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well anyone know of or see anything wrong with these or any specific alternatives? the one with the more rounded top is 7 feet and i figure in case of any condensation it should be better. Not sure if anyoen looked at either one but the flatter top one is 6 feet high. I'm trying to stack as many buckets as I can in these. This shoudl only be for this winter as next spring I hope to move into a bigger facility if winter farmers marketing goes well. I plan to add an exhaust as well as an air intake to this. There is an outle for an exhaust to the outside already I'll probably just filter it as it goes out. Plus I have a drain for this in the basement that an either go right under one of the corners or can be squeegied out daily if there is any buildup. I plan to order 3 fog makers and run my impeller humidifier to start.
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Well it doesn't matter after all. I did some more measureing and at its peak the ceiling would have to be 7' high. I have to stay below 6'9''. The one with the flatter roof is 6' tall so I figure i have less space to keep humid and it's mostly level instead of having a big peak which nothing will go in the middle anyways but along the walls. I measured adn laid out some buckets and if I really needed too I can do like 14 stacks of buckets and 4 tall with a base made out of something else to raise the buckets off the ground. I'm thinking of makeing some kind of cove bordering around its walls as well so any moisture collection on the floor would be contained withing the tent and I could spray out the floor and have ig drain into the drain in the floor. I also have another layer of thick plastic that will in itself also contain the greenhouse in it.
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Well I purchased the taller greenhouse and it was perfect! Luckily it wasn't for outdoors cause i would be skeptical, but it isn't blowing no where in my basement. Now I have to figure out a way to get fresh air in and stale air out. I would estimate my ft^3 to be around 375. I was thinking of just getting one of the small inline duct fans that do around 100 -250 cfm depending on which one. But if I instal one of these and have it run so that air is cleared out I'm thinking 5 times an hour completely that is somewhere close to what I want. Minus some dialing in. I'm wondering if fans like this http://www.menards.com/main/heating-cooling/ductwork/indoor-air-quality/6-double-crimp-in-line-duct-fan/p-113769-c-6872.htm are ok for moist air or will it rust? Would I be better off getting one of the ones for hydroponic systems or are they just for moving more air? Also, since it is about to be winter. Would air suck up and outside if I just had an exhaust running from the greenouse to the vent? Going from hot to cold?
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nanncee



Registered: 12/01/12
Posts: 434
Loc: Utah
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Quote:
CAP_TURTLE said: Well I purchased the taller greenhouse and it was perfect! Luckily it wasn't for outdoors cause i would be skeptical, but it isn't blowing no where in my basement. Now I have to figure out a way to get fresh air in and stale air out. I would estimate my ft^3 to be around 375. I was thinking of just getting one of the small inline duct fans that do around 100 -250 cfm depending on which one. But if I instal one of these and have it run so that air is cleared out I'm thinking 5 times an hour completely that is somewhere close to what I want. Minus some dialing in. I'm wondering if fans like this http://www.menards.com/main/heating-cooling/ductwork/indoor-air-quality/6-double-crimp-in-line-duct-fan/p-113769-c-6872.htm are ok for moist air or will it rust? Would I be better off getting one of the ones for hydroponic systems or are they just for moving more air? Also, since it is about to be winter. Would air suck up and outside if I just had an exhaust running from the greenouse to the vent? Going from hot to cold?
Sorry I never responded back about the greenhouse, it's that time of year. can't seem to find enough time.
As far as the fan goes, the one you linked to would not last long in a high humidity environment. Hydroponics fans work well but I rarely see them at a price I want to pay. If you want a fully sealed fan that is cheap look into bilge fans for boats/marine use. That's what I use in my systems.
http://www.attwoodmarine.com/store/product/store/turbo-4000-ii
They make a water resistant and a non water resistant. make sure you get the water resistant. You can power these with a computer power supply very easily. Just needs 12v DC and 4amps (give or take an amp)
-------------------- I am a small scale farmer, come check out what we do. www.facebook.com/biocentricbros Check out our Youtube videos. www.youtube.com/biocentricbros
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: Greenhouse [Re: nanncee]
#18862849 - 09/19/13 12:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Anyone able to link me to a good fan or two? I see several when I get on ebay and I don't mind paying 50-75 bucks for something that will get the job done and last. Theres just so many to choose from and half likely arent even reliable.
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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This here is very cheap. http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEACHOICE-IN-LINE-BILGE-BLOWER-4-240-CFM-41841-WHITE-/350460382380?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item5199110cac&vxp=mtr Right now everythign will be passing out a 4 " exhaust just because i'm using the one made for the dryer, but I'm going to install a basement window cover and take out the old window and put something new in with a 6" hole possibly. Only hting is the 4" hole is a good 6-8 ft of tubing away. The other window almost buts right up against the back of the greenhouse so I dont know if this would creat back drafts when the fan isn't on. Also being that my room is less than 400cfm would it be better to use a speed controla nd run it slower so I get an overall5 gas exhanges an hour or run it for 5 seperate minutes out of the hour clearing it out each time?
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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You might end up being disappointed by a bilge fan if you're expecting it to move air through ducting. I'd go for one of the 100 dollar centrifugal fans. Just stay away from ones with words like 'value' or 'eco/economy' in them.
I had a 4x8x4 grow room at one time and it took a 4 inch centrifugal fan to have proper air exchange.
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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did you run yours 24/7? My ducting at most is going to be 8 ft. Maybe even shorter if i put it out the window right next to it i was speaking of.
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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I don't know how big if an area you're planning to vent, or if you're going to be filtering it at all, but if it's just a straight duct of 8 feet it might be fine.
I'd say if you were going to suck through a house filter then blow through a duct and into a garbage can humidifier and then into your GH. Or if you want that to be an option in the future, go with a centrifugal fan.
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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I have a seperate small fan for humidity. I'm just worried about the overall air exchanges. I could pump humid air in with it but I'd need just as powerful a fan to pump it out i'm guessing. A filter may be a possiblilty to filter spores going out but i'm not sure yet if that will be necessary. The ariea though is roughly 375 cubic feet. a 10x 7 greenhouse roughly 6'6" but arcing so its not completely cubed. One of hte 6" inline fans that run 400 some cfm should clear it out in a minute. I'm not sure how i will filter air coming in but it will come together i hope. Thats the reason for the thread
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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You could get a recycling timer for the larger fan, and one for your humidifier, or put them both on the same one. Here's some pics of my setup, nothing fancy, but maybe it will spark some ideas. The foggers and fans run 24/7 until I get everything dialed in.
air intake, with 12x12 air filters they sell at warmart, and hydrofarm 6" fan

 other side of the curtain, still working on the ducting, but there's 2 5 head pond foggers in there. I find it actually works better with the lid on the trash can off, but water sprays everywhere.
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nanncee



Registered: 12/01/12
Posts: 434
Loc: Utah
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Re: Greenhouse [Re: drake89]
#18866635 - 09/20/13 08:36 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
liamtheloser said: You might end up being disappointed by a bilge fan if you're expecting it to move air through ducting. I'd go for one of the 100 dollar centrifugal fans. Just stay away from ones with words like 'value' or 'eco/economy' in them.
I had a 4x8x4 grow room at one time and it took a 4 inch centrifugal fan to have proper air exchange.
Why? Bilge fans work great for this. I have been running these in my two small rooms for a year with no problems. Although they will not last longer than 6 months or so if they are on 24/7. But at under $30 to purchase and under 30 minutes to install it's not a bad replacement when they do go out.
Not sure I would worry about filtering incoming air, i toyed with this idea for awhile but there just wasn't any benefit. RR and a few others advised against it as well. But if your outgoing air is being pushed into another room that people will be in and out of a filter may not be a bad idea. But be aware it will have to changed/cleaned frequently and it will increase the amount of positive pressure your fan has to overcome.
also you mentioned you have two fans, one for humidity one for air exchange. I don't know where you live but for example here in utah, I couldn't get away with having a fan blowing air straight in my rooms from outside. I have to send all air through my pond fogger box or my humidity would never be high enough with the amount of air exchange needed.
-------------------- I am a small scale farmer, come check out what we do. www.facebook.com/biocentricbros Check out our Youtube videos. www.youtube.com/biocentricbros
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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Re: Greenhouse [Re: nanncee]
#18866868 - 09/20/13 09:37 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
nanncee said:
Quote:
liamtheloser said: You might end up being disappointed by a bilge fan if you're expecting it to move air through ducting. I'd go for one of the 100 dollar centrifugal fans. Just stay away from ones with words like 'value' or 'eco/economy' in them.
I had a 4x8x4 grow room at one time and it took a 4 inch centrifugal fan to have proper air exchange.
Why? Bilge fans work great for this. I have been running these in my two small rooms for a year with no problems. Although they will not last longer than 6 months or so if they are on 24/7. But at under $30 to purchase and under 30 minutes to install it's not a bad replacement when they do go out.
Not sure I would worry about filtering incoming air, i toyed with this idea for awhile but there just wasn't any benefit. RR and a few others advised against it as well. But if your outgoing air is being pushed into another room that people will be in and out of a filter may not be a bad idea. But be aware it will have to changed/cleaned frequently and it will increase the amount of positive pressure your fan has to overcome.
also you mentioned you have two fans, one for humidity one for air exchange. I don't know where you live but for example here in utah, I couldn't get away with having a fan blowing air straight in my rooms from outside. I have to send all air through my pond fogger box or my humidity would never be high enough with the amount of air exchange needed.
So for the cost of 3 bilge fans (which are axial fans) you can have a nice centrifugal fan that is designed to work under pressure.
Axial fans, by design, are not good with any pressure.
And a good reason for a filter of some sort on the intake would be to limit bugs (filter in combination with positive pressure inside the greenhouse).
You don't need an intake fan and an exhaust fan either, just let the air escape in its own. Co2 is heavy so just letting air escape through the floor gap will clear it out faster anyway and still allow positive pressure (so that bugs and other baddies can't come in).
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Ok i'm gonna answer everyone together. I do have the air from the outside getting humidified. It goees from fan into an aquarium then the outlet is inside the gh itself. I'll take a picture eventually. As for letting the air come out on it's own that would mean the humid air would be released into my basement. Last thing I want is 5 full air exchanges of humid air or 120 a day being released into my basement. So it has to go outside. I don't mind air being sucked in from the basement just as long as it's not released down there. Plus for any accidental sporolation etc. i'd rather that go outside as well. I'm going to order a 6" fan since i can tone it down if needed and not hte bilge fan because replacing every 6 months wouldn't be something I'd want to do. Now if i could draw the air outside through passive exchange, that'd be awesome too. but for now to guarantee it goes outside and not inside the fan will be hooked up to the exhaust.
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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So for the exhaust you could do a couple things.
For passive exhaust, you'd have to make the exhaust duct larger, like very large, I don't now how sealed up your GH is, but air will take the path of least resistance. So, under the bottom.
For active exhaust, but still slightly pressurized, get a smaller fan for exhaust. You can find a cheap blower on Craigslist, either centrifugal or squirrel cage. Has to be less CFM than the intake or it'll start sucking dry air into the GH.
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ghiajake
Myco-Viking


Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 3,846
Loc: Indiana
Last seen: 1 day, 20 hours
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I use this GH, www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B8RAFHM/ref=oh_details_o09_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1, in my basement and it works perfect. I leave the door flap slightly unzipped and have a room air purifier bringing in fresh air from under the door flap. Cut a couple tiny holes above the door to vent air out.
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nanncee



Registered: 12/01/12
Posts: 434
Loc: Utah
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Quote:
liamtheloser said:
Quote:
nanncee said:
Quote:
liamtheloser said: You might end up being disappointed by a bilge fan if you're expecting it to move air through ducting. I'd go for one of the 100 dollar centrifugal fans. Just stay away from ones with words like 'value' or 'eco/economy' in them.
I had a 4x8x4 grow room at one time and it took a 4 inch centrifugal fan to have proper air exchange.
Why? Bilge fans work great for this. I have been running these in my two small rooms for a year with no problems. Although they will not last longer than 6 months or so if they are on 24/7. But at under $30 to purchase and under 30 minutes to install it's not a bad replacement when they do go out.
Not sure I would worry about filtering incoming air, i toyed with this idea for awhile but there just wasn't any benefit. RR and a few others advised against it as well. But if your outgoing air is being pushed into another room that people will be in and out of a filter may not be a bad idea. But be aware it will have to changed/cleaned frequently and it will increase the amount of positive pressure your fan has to overcome.
also you mentioned you have two fans, one for humidity one for air exchange. I don't know where you live but for example here in utah, I couldn't get away with having a fan blowing air straight in my rooms from outside. I have to send all air through my pond fogger box or my humidity would never be high enough with the amount of air exchange needed.
So for the cost of 3 bilge fans (which are axial fans) you can have a nice centrifugal fan that is designed to work under pressure.
Axial fans, by design, are not good with any pressure.
And a good reason for a filter of some sort on the intake would be to limit bugs (filter in combination with positive pressure inside the greenhouse).
You don't need an intake fan and an exhaust fan either, just let the air escape in its own. Co2 is heavy so just letting air escape through the floor gap will clear it out faster anyway and still allow positive pressure (so that bugs and other baddies can't come in).
Those bilge fans are rated to 1psi according to the manufactures specs. I think the thing that usually kills it is water build up or calcium build up on the walls which causes the fans to scrape and wear out the bushings. i literally just replaced a fan and I believe that is what happened to it. Not everyones cup of tea but for someone with a bit of soldering experience they are a cheap route and locally available when they die.
you could very easily put a screen on your intake to keep bugs out.
I would agree there is no need for an exhaust fan, that is what positive pressure is for. Honestly that's why most peoples fan run 24/7 to keep positive pressure. As mentioned above anytime that fan turns of your going to have air coming back in through your exit. Positive pressure is a must in my opinion.
Definitely don't let that exhaust just dump into your basement. You want to keep that area out of your fruiting room as dry as possible. I see people on here all the time having no exhaust letting the air sit in their house and I just cringe and the thought of the nasty bits growing all over everything.
-------------------- I am a small scale farmer, come check out what we do. www.facebook.com/biocentricbros Check out our Youtube videos. www.youtube.com/biocentricbros
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: Greenhouse [Re: nanncee]
#18869515 - 09/20/13 08:39 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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So if i ran a fan into the setup at a high enough flow to keep up with the air exchanges needed and set up an exhaust with no fan and the border of the greenhouse sealed to the ground, am I to expect that the air is going to be forced through the exhaust and out? Even if its 6 ft long and only 4-6" diameter? And as you say air is going to come back in when its off, so should I only get enough cfm to do 5 full exchanges in an hour while running 24/7? I was thinking there was a piece you can get that when there is no pressure it caps shut then rotates back open when pressure is added. Maybe it's used for chimneys or smoething. I can picture it but not sure what its called.
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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Use a louvered vent and it'll stop it from coming back through. Any dryer vent is louvered or has a flap preventing back flow.
Yes, if your tent is pressurized and sealed, an exhaust will not have to be powered.
An axial fan won't pressurize like that though, so you'd have to use a large centrifugal.
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Not sure what the difference in axial and centrifugal are. Would a hydro farm fan do the trick? it displaces the area of my greenhouse in a minute. Im still not totally against useing it as exhaust. Even though it could suck in dry air, it'd only run 5 mins out of the hour. It is already sometimes too moist in there so it might fix it.
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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also another question if anyone sees it. The exhaust in the wall is at abnout 6 feet heighth. If using passive or active, would it be best to run the exhaust from floor level up or run it at an even height with wher i'd be running it out the wall?
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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Axial is a typical "fan shape". Meaning fan blades. A centrifugal fan is much different. It is impellers rotating around the center pipeline. Basically it creates a vortex that moves air instead of trying to chop the air up.
It won't matter what height on the wall you're exhausting at, because pressure will force the air through the path of least resistance. Either way the air has to travel up and out or straight out. It's the same.
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Quote:
liamtheloser said: Use a louvered vent and it'll stop it from coming back through. Any dryer vent is louvered or has a flap preventing back flow.
Yes, if your tent is pressurized and sealed, an exhaust will not have to be powered.
An axial fan won't pressurize like that though, so you'd have to use a large centrifugal.
Quote:
CAP_TURTLE said: Not sure what the difference in axial and centrifugal are. Would a hydro farm fan do the trick? it displaces the area of my greenhouse in a minute. Im still not totally against useing it as exhaust. Even though it could suck in dry air, it'd only run 5 mins out of the hour. It is already sometimes too moist in there so it might fix it.
i use the 6" hydrofarm fan running 24/7 on a 2000cuft room. So maybe you should find one that has an appropriate rating to run all the time like you were saying? I run a 4" dryer duct out one of the walls to outside. Only thing is, you got to make sure you're not going to blow the cover off your greenhouse! I don't know how yours is put together.
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: Greenhouse [Re: drake89]
#18873697 - 09/21/13 08:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Is your duct from the bottom or top of the side of the greenhouse?
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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I belive i've read that having drops and rises in humidity is good for initiating pinning and i know the 6" is only like 10 dollars more than the 4". So i may test running it one minute every ten minutes and if that doesnt work then adding a speed regulator on the fan. That way too if I later get a bigger greenhouse, i will still have something that does the trick.I'm also still debating on rather to run it as the air intake or exhaust. If I run it as the exhaust I'm guaranteed the air is going to go out the exhaust where as I run it as the intake I have every possible seam having pressure as a possible outlet along with the proper exhaust pipe. Is hydro farm the standard leader for affordable inline fans? Or is there any other brands at the same price considered superior.
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deadmandave
Slime


Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 3,355
Loc:
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btw might i ask how you would regulate the fan speed?
my fan has a capacitor so i believe i should not use a rheostat; but i want to use less energy on the fan and keep it running 24/7 low speed. as it is right now i have it on a cycle timer.
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Quote:
deadmandave said: btw might i ask how you would regulate the fan speed?
my fan has a capacitor so i believe i should not use a rheostat; but i want to use less energy on the fan and keep it running 24/7 low speed. as it is right now i have it on a cycle timer.
you need one of the expensive motor controllers. hydrofarm sells them, there may be a cheaper option. i think they operate on PWM (pulse width modulation) or something. You CAN use a light dimmer but it won't work well and it may fuck up your fan in the long run.
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nanncee



Registered: 12/01/12
Posts: 434
Loc: Utah
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Quote:
liamtheloser said: Use a louvered vent and it'll stop it from coming back through. Any dryer vent is louvered or has a flap preventing back flow.
Yes, if your tent is pressurized and sealed, an exhaust will not have to be powered.
An axial fan won't pressurize like that though, so you'd have to use a large centrifugal.
I'll say this again, axial fans WILL allow positive pressure to build. Not that they are the right fit for this job, just don't spread misinformation.
Quote:
deadmandave said: btw might i ask how you would regulate the fan speed?
my fan has a capacitor so i believe i should not use a rheostat; but i want to use less energy on the fan and keep it running 24/7 low speed. as it is right now i have it on a cycle timer.
Check out these. Pulse Width Modulating Speed controller. It's what I use to controller my DC fans.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-40V-10A-Pulse-Width-Modulator-PWM-DC-Motor-Speed-Control-Switch-Governor-New-/271281206593?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f299eb541
-------------------- I am a small scale farmer, come check out what we do. www.facebook.com/biocentricbros Check out our Youtube videos. www.youtube.com/biocentricbros
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deadmandave
Slime


Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 3,355
Loc:
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Re: Greenhouse [Re: nanncee]
#18883197 - 09/24/13 12:52 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Wow nanncee, cheep solution. How do you wire that gizmo?
Ooh I see, four leads opposite the dial. but how do you know the positive power/motor from the negative?
Edited by deadmandave (09/24/13 12:57 AM)
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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I have read that all these speed controls are made for DC but hydrofarm fans are AC and sold grouped with these speed controls. Should I expect i'll be able to use one on mine? I ordered the 6" hydrofarm fan and it should be here tomorrow.
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nanncee



Registered: 12/01/12
Posts: 434
Loc: Utah
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Quote:
deadmandave said: Wow nanncee, cheep solution. How do you wire that gizmo?
Ooh I see, four leads opposite the dial. but how do you know the positive power/motor from the negative?
Should be color coded. They work exceptionally well and In a year I have never had one fail on me. (but I have backups just incase)
Quote:
CAP_TURTLE said: I have read that all these speed controls are made for DC but hydrofarm fans are AC and sold grouped with these speed controls. Should I expect i'll be able to use one on mine? I ordered the 6" hydrofarm fan and it should be here tomorrow.
The one I linked to and all Pulse Width Mudulating speed controllers I have seen are DC. So no it will not work with a hydrofarm fan if it is AC. The cool thing about DC PWM controllers is they aren't limiting the current to your fan so your voltage stays the same. read the wiki it will make more sense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation
You would need a rheostat controller for AC or there may be something else out there. I will keep on the lookout for an AC PWM. I am no fan expert by any means, just picked up information from my engineering father.
-------------------- I am a small scale farmer, come check out what we do. www.facebook.com/biocentricbros Check out our Youtube videos. www.youtube.com/biocentricbros
Edited by nanncee (09/24/13 05:31 PM)
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: Greenhouse [Re: nanncee]
#18889448 - 09/25/13 01:55 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I received the 6" hydrofarm fan today and didn't realize it would be so hard to find a timer that will only one 1 minute at a time every 15 minutes or 10 even. If anyone knows an affordable timer that will run on an hour cycle the same times every hour please link me
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woodland_jewel
In den Gärten Pharaos


Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 401
Loc: Penna
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Quote:
CAP_TURTLE said: I received the 6" hydrofarm fan today and didn't realize it would be so hard to find a timer that will only one 1 minute at a time every 15 minutes or 10 even. If anyone knows an affordable timer that will run on an hour cycle the same times every hour please link me 
This cycle timer is built well and should do ya nicely...
 http://www.amazon.com/ART-DNE-Hydroponic-Adjustable-Interval-Controller/dp/B00286QNDM
Also, this speed controller works with Hydrofarm fans...

http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-ACSC-Fan-Speed-Controller/dp/B003URBQ1M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380153699&sr=8-1&keywords=hydrofarm+speed+controller
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Mangomankw
Key West Fun-Gi



Registered: 11/04/12
Posts: 180
Loc: Key west, FL
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Quote:
woodland_jewel said:
Quote:
CAP_TURTLE said: I received the 6" hydrofarm fan today and didn't realize it would be so hard to find a timer that will only one 1 minute at a time every 15 minutes or 10 even. If anyone knows an affordable timer that will run on an hour cycle the same times every hour please link me 
This cycle timer is built well and should do ya nicely...
 http://www.amazon.com/ART-DNE-Hydroponic-Adjustable-Interval-Controller/dp/B00286QNDM
Also, this speed controller works with Hydrofarm fans...

http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-ACSC-Fan-Speed-Controller/dp/B003URBQ1M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380153699&sr=8-1&keywords=hydrofarm+speed+controller
I have one of the top timers and like it pretty good....for what its worth
-------------------- The Key West Fun-Gi!!!:
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Ok as I continue to design my warehouse, one I found low lighting was an issue. I stuck a fluorescent hood in there and the mushrooms bloomed a lot fuller on that side of the buckets while aborting on the shaded side so I bought another and it is well lit up now. One thing I'm realizing is it's probably going to take 2 hydro farms to have equal intake an exhaust on limiters. I'm wondering if running 2 constant even on a speed limiter will eat up electric. Should I try to set it to run 1 min full air exchanges?
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
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Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Alright well the greenhouse is coming further along. I now have 2 6" hydrofarm blowers, 2 speed controllers which are working just fine, am using 5 foggers and may add one more today just so i can speed up the air intake and exhaust and still maintain the humidity. What I am working on now is setting an environment up for various species at the same time. I currently have oysters, shiitake, black poplar, reishi, and king oysters. Ok. Now if you can picture this. There is a zipper door on the front and the intake goes in through there. Now the exhaust goes out through the back end on the right. It draws air out from the floor. I wish I could draw diagrams for this as I'd like to discuss the air flow and if someone can recomend a program that'd be great. The intake as I didnt say is about a foot in a half off the ground then runs up so it eventually sets about middle height of the greenhouse but of course the upper limits arent filled. Ok. Heres what I want to do. I'd like to have areas of higher fae and lower mainly for kings and such. wouuld placing the intake on the ground and exhaust up high make areas of high co2 around the bottom of the back? Or up high in the front. Or say I did it vice versa, would one way help more? Also the intake comes in on left of door and the exhaust is the corner adjacent. Maybe I shoudl keep both the intake and exhaust to one side then the opposite side would slowly build higher CO2. I hope everyone is able to understand this and I will work through a better way of sharing and take some pictures as I work today for better vissuals. I appreciate any and all input from you guys! Thank you.
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nanncee



Registered: 12/01/12
Posts: 434
Loc: Utah
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Quote:
CAP_TURTLE said: Alright well the greenhouse is coming further along. I now have 2 6" hydrofarm blowers, 2 speed controllers which are working just fine, am using 5 foggers and may add one more today just so i can speed up the air intake and exhaust and still maintain the humidity. What I am working on now is setting an environment up for various species at the same time. I currently have oysters, shiitake, black poplar, reishi, and king oysters. Ok. Now if you can picture this. There is a zipper door on the front and the intake goes in through there. Now the exhaust goes out through the back end on the right. It draws air out from the floor. I wish I could draw diagrams for this as I'd like to discuss the air flow and if someone can recomend a program that'd be great. The intake as I didnt say is about a foot in a half off the ground then runs up so it eventually sets about middle height of the greenhouse but of course the upper limits arent filled. Ok. Heres what I want to do. I'd like to have areas of higher fae and lower mainly for kings and such. wouuld placing the intake on the ground and exhaust up high make areas of high co2 around the bottom of the back? Or up high in the front. Or say I did it vice versa, would one way help more? Also the intake comes in on left of door and the exhaust is the corner adjacent. Maybe I shoudl keep both the intake and exhaust to one side then the opposite side would slowly build higher CO2. I hope everyone is able to understand this and I will work through a better way of sharing and take some pictures as I work today for better vissuals. I appreciate any and all input from you guys! Thank you.
If understand your design correctly, I would imagine your corners nearest the ends would have higher CO2. but honestly it is going to have a lot to do with if you are building positive pressure or not. Pictures/diagrams would help. This is where a decent CO2 meter is a must IMO. We bit the bullet last year and bought one. It has helped immensely.
-------------------- I am a small scale farmer, come check out what we do. www.facebook.com/biocentricbros Check out our Youtube videos. www.youtube.com/biocentricbros
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: Greenhouse [Re: nanncee]
#19089247 - 11/05/13 09:46 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have an equilibrium I suppose. I try to match the intake fan's speed to hte exhaust speed so it comes in as fast as it goes out. More or less air is traveling from one corner to the adjacent corner. My bigger concern is does having either or at the top or bottom affect the overall environment. If both on bottom I'd imagine the air up top would have higher co2 but some people say because co2 is heavier it sinks while others say it remains mixed. I'm guessing i'm just gonna have to experiment. I'm just trying not to have to repeatedly put new holes in my greenhouse. Here it is:  I have the intake coming to the right side of the door at about 2' height. The exhaust is in the back right corner behind those buckets. It seemed to help having hte oysters closer to the exhaust.
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer


Registered: 03/11/05
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Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Well, my greenhouse is starting to fill up and I need shelving and fast! To remind everyone, I have a 10x7ft greenhouse about 7 ft tall in the middle with walls around 5 feet tall or so. I was looking at these http://www.menards.com/main/shelving-visualizer/garage-basement/plano-4-shelf-heavy-duty-ventilated-shelving/p-1912377-c-12652.htm were what I was considering until I read some threads and everyone says to steer away from the plastic shelves. I thought they'd be easy to clean but people say they will let stuff build up. Now they are grated and quite thinly, not thick as many of the ones I've seen. I was sort of thinking maybe I could rotate shelves til I get to where I always have one empty and it can be sprayed down super well. Or maybe it would just work as is since it's grated so well like I said. If this is truly still not a very good option I was then considering buying several of these http://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/storage-buildings/greenhouses/4-shelf-greenhouse/p-1505644-c-10122.htm and not using the covers on them. I thought maybe I could set them right side by side and ziptie the legs and shelve ends themselves together so they were tightly held together and this would also make each inside legg 2x as thick. If someone thinks sturdiness would still be an issue then does anyone have a suggestion? I already have one of these in my greenhouse and I have 6-8 5lb blocks on each shelf and whiel its holding up I do sometimes worry. But as side maybe reinforcing against each other will play a big help and not to mention if I ever do come up with better shelving or later have time to build something better, I'll have a bunch of individual greenhouses for playing with random species all with clean unused covers. I really do hope to move into a bigger space eventually, maybe this summer or even sooner since I have raised a bunch of attention and am selling all I grow and hesitant to keep spreading the word til I up production which is what I'm working on now. Well I appreciate any input and I'd like to have this done by the end of the day sunday so If the answer is still to build my own I need to be able to do it this weekend. Any advice or further links are appreciated. Thanks
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Aleon
The Power of Our Origins



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 1,127
Loc: Everywhere
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Build something like technobilly did if your low on funds. If not get the NSF metal shelves from menards for $60/each. And for an extra $10 you can add wheels to them.
-------------------- Mushroom medicines available at: www.swordandshieldwellness.com
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer


Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: Greenhouse [Re: Aleon]
#19336123 - 12/28/13 09:04 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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The problem I get with the ones similar to tBs is that my greenhouse is arched so I can't easily support them to the beams with out cutting up the greenhouse and spending more to seal it. I am gonna look more into a moveable design though. I'm gonna look on menards again and see if I see the ones you speak of. Wheels defjnitwly sound good. What did you end up using. I seen your thread but not what you decided upon. Have you ever tried plastic ones similar to the ones I linked? I like the fact that later I could use them for something else when I move into a bigger space.
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer


Registered: 03/11/05
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Also is this the one your speaking of? http://www.menards.com/main/shelving-visualizer/garage-basement/wire-shelving-18-x-48-x-72-four-shelf-black/p-2193677-c-12652.htm Wheels would definitely be good for cleaning as I think about it. I just have to make sure I can clear it on the sides but I'm about to check!
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer


Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Well after checking the dimensions, the last one I linked won't fit :/ I did find though that I can stick 4 of the mini greenhouses, sin covers, side by side on one side. At 6 blocks per shelf, thats 96 blocks on one side. If I go both sides thats 192 blocks plus I could still do about 8-12 buckets at the end of the greenhouse. That seems rather nice to me! Since they'd be side by side, I'd think as I said that when ziptied together the overall stability would be increased. Also in the near future I could add just some sort of stabalizer, maybe under the very top shelfs to add a little extra support. The only problem would be moving them. Also I notice rust sometimes where the poles go vertical into the fittings, never horizontal for some reason. I'm still waiting to hear if anyone has used the plastic ones I posted as well. They look sturdier and would not need to be attached to each other and could be rotated so one is always being cleaned. I am curious though for those who built their own racks, maybe using pvc, what thickness is necessary? I knwo the fittings themselves get rather expensive which is why I originally didn't make my own greenhouse This is also another option to accomodate the height later. Oh and one final thing. If i did use the mini greenhouses I could occasionaly put the covers on and leave them unzipped or zipped to accomodate those that like higher co2 levels. Sorry this is a lot but I'm just now getting to the need to do more which is a good thing Hell i'll probably eventually build my own and use the current greenhouse outdoors this summer, but that doesn't solve my current problem since I cannot afford to build another and buy shelves at this time.
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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if you're going to go with the metal wire shelves you should get them at a used restaurant supply store, they will be way cheaper and maybe you can get wider shelves. also if you put wheels on them make sure to lock the threads on the bottom. i just had to replace a couple sets of wheels cause they loosened and bent.
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MObeek
Novice



Registered: 03/24/13
Posts: 163
Loc: Northwest MO, USA
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Re: Greenhouse [Re: drake89]
#19337979 - 12/28/13 05:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer


Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: Greenhouse [Re: MObeek]
#19357784 - 01/02/14 10:15 AM (10 years, 29 days ago) |
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I've been steady going throgh my head debating what to do. I realized I can lift my greenhouse about 6 inches and it maybe a good idea anyways so the bottom braces become easier to clean. Also I may just rebuild and use this greenhouse for another area or outside. But anyways I'm going to get the 6 ft tall metal wire nsf shelves from menards. Are there any reason to go with either the black or chrome? will one not rust as easy or anything else someone can tell me from expierience?
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Jeff
Addict



Registered: 10/06/12
Posts: 1,488
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
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I would go with the galvanized not so much for rust resistance but it will be easier to see where and when it needs to be cleaned.
-------------------- Myco-tek
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Aleon
The Power of Our Origins



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 1,127
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: Greenhouse [Re: Jeff]
#19358327 - 01/02/14 12:44 PM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Get the black; its NSF and it doesn't rust.
-------------------- Mushroom medicines available at: www.swordandshieldwellness.com
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