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Offlineisolate
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multi-strain GL, cakes and rye UPDATED with pics and more questions
    #18756460 - 08/25/13 06:46 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)


Updates! Because I need answers to questions about my FC >:|
But first! PROGRESS.
Again, this is my first proper grow. I have BRF cakes and rye jars both. I am SUPER EXCITEBIKE about the happy mycelium pictured above and my overall progress with everything. (actually a fly landed in the one jar pictured above, hence the label) However, not all is perfect, my first question: What's the deal with "Falbino"? All my malaysian jars are already passed the point of being shaken (which I did the other day, the mycelium has now taken off like wildfire) while the Falbino hasn't made a single spot. The spores were visible in the syringe, what exactly constitutes a bad syringe? I remember "a cube is a cube" which made sense to me and is why I just ordered vendor selected strains, but are there particular strains like this one that are just stubborn/difficult to grow? Or was it just dead spores in the syringe?
Can I just re-inoculate these same jars with another strain, if so how long should I wait to make sure Falbino isn't happening? Also should I P/C again if I re-inoculate?

On to my completed cakes... they were dunked overnight...

It is delicious cake!

And here is my FC set up. I went PMP with lava rocks I rinsed well. I am concerned about having the maximum yeild possible (for my first time anyway) so I decided to heighten the FC by using a clothes-hamper thing I lined in foil and taped a light to. Though not pictured, I put a strip of duct tape around where the hamper meets the bin. My second question is about humidity. I made nine 1/2 inch holes in the bin, and if you look on the picture I also left two holes of the hamper open and plugged everything with polyfill. is this too many holes? I'm concerned I wont reach desired humidity. I have a digi humidity/thermometer but it's in my incubator right meow so I think tomorrow I will go out and pick up an analog for my FC. This question I can really just wait and see what happens for the answer.



But for my last question, I don't want to increase the chance of contaminates so I'm wondering if I added too much water or not. I left this pic a little bigger so you could possibly see the water, it's maybe an inch below. I put the cakes on foil because I read about them colonizing the rocks and thought that would make it more difficult when I need to dunk between flushes. The rocks are in maybe two inches (1 gallon) of distilled water with h202 added.



Thanks in advance for any replies! Sorry my posts are rather long-winded...

more cakes on the way, too.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>original post


I've finally joined the community I've long lurked and learned much from. My thanks is this contribution of my first proper grow. Years ago I tried the pre-sterilized "mycobags" with rotten luck. My first attempt landed in 6 contaminated bags, I complained, received new bags and on second attempt the mycelium never even started to spot. I abandon that plan, and here I am years later doing the PF tek I first read about.

I had twelve 8oz jars, twelve 4oz jars, and three spore syringes (Mexican, Ban Hua, Treasure Coast). I did three pressure cooks that I marked on the jars along with the strains.
Substrate was a more coarse vermiculite with a bag of "raw brown rice" I ground into a powder with a coffee grinder.
Three holes were punched with a nail, and sealed with silicone. This is where I think I went wrong.
I made my glove box using PVC flanges for holes from a tutorial.
I made my own alcohol lamp; a shot glass with foil on top, duck taped around to seal foil, poked a hole, stuck cotton through and used regular %70 rubbing alcohol.

So here's where things get interesting. I spray down my bathroom and the box with disinfectant real good and get everything ready. I decide I will do four jars between sterilizing the needle which leads to my first question:
Is it necessary to sterilize between each jar, if you're having to take the needle out of your glove box each time anyway, thereby exposing the inside air of your box to possible contaminates?
Next, I put the syringe in the first jar and before I realized it 75% of the spore solution was sucked in! A vacuum, great. At least I know my jars are air-tight.
So my first syringe was "Mexican Mexicube" split between only four 8oz jars.
The second syringe I managed to keep my thumb against the plunger and only let each jar vacuum-in so much solution. The "Ban Hua Thanon" was evenly distributed in the remaining eight 8oz jars.
The third syringe I started on my 4oz jars. This time I tried to squirt out the little air bubble before flaming the needle thinking it would help. I guess the first jar wasn't air-tight because I was able to properly press the plunger. The second jar, however, I felt start to vacuum in again so I held the plunger back, but the liquid solution kept sucking in even with the plunger held back! So now I only have four 4oz jars of "Treasure Coast" with one of them over-inoculated.
My second question: How do I prevent this vacuum suction in my jars?? I didn't completely waste my spores thankfully, but it does make things rather difficult..
And a bonus question, because I know this is probably insignificant but I'd like clarification anyway: does the more black specs in the solution = more spores and greater chance of colonization? One was rather thick with specs, one less, and the last had none at all.

Will update with all pics upon first signs of mycelium spotting. I have pics of everything so far though, if anyone wants a pic of the lamp or glovebox or something. Thanks for reading if you made it this far :grin:


Edited by isolate (09/20/13 09:35 PM)


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Offlineghostinthemist
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Re: 3 strain growlog, spore syringe problem [Re: isolate]
    #18756513 - 08/25/13 06:56 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

just to let you know you cant multi spore a poo bag


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OfflineJman420
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Re: 3 strain growlog, spore syringe problem [Re: isolate]
    #18756533 - 08/25/13 07:03 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

1. It is wise to sterilize the needle each and every time before you inoculate a new jar. SAB, Flow Hood, w.e., Sterilize the needle each time.

2. Shake up your syringes better and shake up your jars before they are inoculated.:thumbup:

3. Yea the jars that got more spores will probably shows signs of growth faster.:grin:


--------------------
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Disregard the haters and "know it alls", it is everything you need to know TO GET STARTED.

If you want to become an expert, you'll need to do a lot more research.
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Edited by Jman420 (08/25/13 07:04 PM)


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Offlineghostinthemist
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Re: 3 strain growlog, spore syringe problem [Re: Jman420]
    #18756544 - 08/25/13 07:06 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

good luck though!  im on my first wbs and it is going swimmingly


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Offlined9c6
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Re: 3 strain growlog, spore syringe problem [Re: Jman420]
    #18756549 - 08/25/13 07:06 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

One thing, why did you put the silicone on the jars? This will suffocate them. Just leave the 3 holes unblocked and that's good enough. The dry verm layer you put above the sub will keep out the contam.


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Offlineheratogwea
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Re: 3 strain growlog, spore syringe problem [Re: ghostinthemist]
    #18756556 - 08/25/13 07:07 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I personally flame and alcohol wipe the needle for each jar.
Also I don't use silicone. I place the sealing lid on, cover with foil nice and tight, then screw the lid over the foil. I'm guessing the silicone has something to do with the vacuum?
Welcome to the shroomery by the way!


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OfflineJman420
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Re: 3 strain growlog, spore syringe problem [Re: d9c6]
    #18756566 - 08/25/13 07:09 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

d9c6 said:
One thing, why did you put the silicone on the jars? This will suffocate them. Just leave the 3 holes unblocked and that's good enough. The dry verm layer you put above the sub will keep out the contam.




Yea this is a good point too.

I would have siliconed only one hole and then put an SFD on the other holes.:thumbup:


--------------------
            --My Everything You Need To Know Tek--

Disregard the haters and "know it alls", it is everything you need to know TO GET STARTED.

If you want to become an expert, you'll need to do a lot more research.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Open Your Mind To A New Future
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                            :amanita2::syringe: :mushroom2::prance::mushroom2::cubie::sporedrop:


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Offlineisolate
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Re: 3 strain growlog, spore syringe problem [Re: Jman420]
    #18756766 - 08/25/13 07:49 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

What is SFD?

I read to silicone the holes on some tek or another, being a plumber I thought it was a great idea since I knew the silicone would seal itself after taking out the syringe.

A couple of the jars weren't air tight and I didn't have this vacuum problem. I am going to try rye grain next time (in a week or two depending on progress of these jars), should I use tape instead for the holes? Since having contamination problems in the past, am I being too meticulous by thinking any amount of air exchange in the jar  would cause contamination? I suppose tape the holes, pressure cook, inoculate, and tape back over the holes would be my best bet.

I did shake the syringes, I forgot to shake any of the jars. I remember reading this step but thought it was only rye grain related.


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Offlineisolate
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Re: 3 strain growlog, spore syringe problem [Re: d9c6]
    #18756802 - 08/25/13 07:57 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

d9c6 said:
One thing, why did you put the silicone on the jars? This will suffocate them. Just leave the 3 holes unblocked and that's good enough. The dry verm layer you put above the sub will keep out the contam.



If they are suffocated, will this hinder mycelium growth? Should I lightly open each jar to introduce a little oxygen? I'm afraid of contamination.


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Offlineghostinthemist
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Re: 3 strain growlog, spore syringe problem [Re: isolate]
    #18757006 - 08/25/13 08:51 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

You could go to fleet farm and get syringes, sterilize them, take the plunger out and put micropore over the top and put it into your inoculation point


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OfflineJman420
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Re: 3 strain growlog, spore syringe problem [Re: ghostinthemist]
    #18757389 - 08/25/13 10:01 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

SFD = Synthetic filter disc. You won't have to worry about the vacuum effect.

I use one hole for the synthetic filter disc and one hole for the inoculation point. Silicone the inoculation point and put and SFD on the hole for air exchange. I use a small drill piece for for the incoluation (3/32) and a larger drill piece for the air exchange hole (3/8).

:goodluck:


--------------------
            --My Everything You Need To Know Tek--

Disregard the haters and "know it alls", it is everything you need to know TO GET STARTED.

If you want to become an expert, you'll need to do a lot more research.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Open Your Mind To A New Future
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                            :amanita2::syringe: :mushroom2::prance::mushroom2::cubie::sporedrop:


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Offlineisolate
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Re: 3 strain growlog, spore syringe problem [Re: Jman420]
    #18757613 - 08/25/13 10:52 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I like the SFD idea, but they seem expensive. Looking into it took me to an "easy felt" tek that seems the way to go on my next batch.
Edit: maybe not, the consensus seems to be SFD > tyvek and easy felt. I'm sure it will be more than worth the investment.

If the jars are air-tight and the substrate 'suffocated' will the mycelium not grow at all or will it just grow slowly? I will buy enough syringes for every jar if the air (gas?) exchange is necessary for optimal mycelium growth.
edit again: or just take silicone out of two holes and stuff with micropore for safe measure?

Thanks for the replies!


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>my digital abstractions


Edited by isolate (08/25/13 11:02 PM)


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Offlineghostinthemist
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Re: 3 strain growlog, spore syringe problem [Re: isolate]
    #18757680 - 08/25/13 11:10 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

you can also use clean poly in the syringe and then push it in there and with no exchange they will die


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Offlineisolate
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Re: 3 strain growlog, spore syringe problem [Re: ghostinthemist]
    #18758650 - 08/26/13 06:47 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

They aren't going to die in 24 hours time, right?
I was thinking of meeting the two ideas posted half way. After work today I will sterilize my glove box, use it to uncover one or two holes in my jars, and loosely tape some cotton over for air exchange. Actually I will probably go to the store and get micropore anyway to tape over holes. Does this sound safe enough?


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: 3 strain growlog, spore syringe problem [Re: isolate]
    #18758699 - 08/26/13 07:27 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

With brf jars that have a dry verm layer you don't need any other kind of filter. That is the whole point of the dry verm layer. When you take the foil off to inoculate them you leave it off. Don't put micropore tape over the holes. Don't put cotton over the holes. Don't put sfd over the hole

And whatever you do DO NOT SHAKE BRF JARS! This will disturb the dry verm layer which is your filter. I saw where someone said that in one of the post. I just wanted to clear that up.

Just go on youtube and type in lets grow mushrooms and watch the first 4 parts. It will tell you everything you need to know to be successful

:goodluck:


Edited by Stromrider (08/26/13 07:29 AM)


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OfflineBloodKil
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Re: 3 strain growlog, spore syringe problem [Re: Stromrider]
    #18758736 - 08/26/13 07:56 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

As said above your lack of a filter for ge is what caused the vacuum and what would have eventually killed off your mycelium.

As far as sfd over ez felt...  ez felt rocks...  I use it exclusively and have not had a single issue.  However, with an sfd, you do not need to put foil over your jars in a pc (as long as the rtv covers the rest of your holes)

Also as said above, these fancy lids are not necessary for pf tek.  That said though, while they may not be necessary,  they also wont hurt anything as long as properly constructed and may even add a slight reduction to contam rates.  (Just make sure you add an additional hole in the center of your lids next time and add some ez felt or a sfd patch applied with rtv to hold it on.)


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Offlineisolate
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Re: 3 strain growlog, spore syringe problem [Re: Stromrider]
    #18759213 - 08/26/13 10:52 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

psillyshroomer said:
With brf jars that have a dry verm layer you don't need any other kind of filter. That is the whole point of the dry verm layer. When you take the foil off to inoculate them you leave it off. Don't put micropore tape over the holes. Don't put cotton over the holes. Don't put sfd over the hole

And whatever you do DO NOT SHAKE BRF JARS! This will disturb the dry verm layer which is your filter. I saw where someone said that in one of the post. I just wanted to clear that up.

Just go on youtube and type in lets grow mushrooms and watch the first 4 parts. It will tell you everything you need to know to be successful

:goodluck:




Thanks so much! I didn't think shaking BRF jars would have done anything to help. I remember the dry layer was used to keep out contaminates, but I didn't know how trust-worthy that alone was, as I am overly nervous about contaminates after my last failed experiments with mycobags. I'm just going to pop the silicone off one hole for each jar.
And I did happen to watch a couple of those videos you mentioned in the past. Those and the older hour-long 'mushroom growing made easy' video were quite informative and helpful.

Thanks again for the replies all. Will report back in a week or so with progress pics! Time to sit back and wait for the magic to happen :chillpill:


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Offlineisolate
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Re: 3 strain growlog, spore syringe problem [Re: isolate]
    #18779291 - 08/30/13 09:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Day 5 - Progress with the Mexicubes. The jar being held was the first one that got a good %70 of the spores because of vacuum issue, the other two jars got what was left of Mexicubes (maybe 1.5ml each). This was the spore syringe that was most thick with black spores, is it safe to assume the more black specks floating around means quicker mycelium? The two other strains have little to no progress worth mentioning, even the 4oz jar that also had a vacuum issue and got an over-dose of spores doesn't have an established spot of mycelium yet. The two syringes for these strains were nearly completely clear of any visible spores. If I ask for the freshest made spore syringes, will I have better results?



Couple more questions. How high can the temperature go before it becomes problematic? These are stored in a water heater closet, it gets into the 90°s F for a few hours mid day then cools back down to 77-82°.
Also, the more I take the jars out to check on them, the higher chance of contamination, right? I'm going to leave them alone for another 5 days.


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InvisibleThe Psyentist
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Re: 3 strain growlog, spore syringe problem [Re: isolate]
    #18779507 - 08/30/13 10:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Clumps equal more spores which in my experience usually generates faster colonization.

Age of syringe is probably not the isssue.

90 degrees is definitely pushing it. It gives contams a lot better chance of taking hold.

You can check your jars every hour if you so please. Although I definitely don't recommend it. But keep them upright. Avoid moving them around quickly. It compromises your verm barrier.


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Offlinemushrume man
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Re: 3 strain growlog, spore syringe problem [Re: The Psyentist]
    #18779618 - 08/30/13 10:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Room temp is fine. You should not incubate them over 81. The more substrate you have the closer to room temp (72f) you want them. The syringes may have little visable spores but are still good in most cases.


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