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Invisibleanne halonium
jaguarette
Female

Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
Re: Cactus Grafting Competition 2013/2014 [Re: Uneak]
    #19202245 - 11/28/13 07:22 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

everybody got quiet all of a sudden.



happy graftsgiving.


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:aliendance:

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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa


Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
Re: Cactus Grafting Competition 2013/2014 [Re: anne halonium]
    #19202704 - 11/28/13 09:37 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

haha I wonder why? 

Happy thanksgiving.  Looks like yours are stackin on!

I think I'll keep my eyes open for some cheap trophies for the winners if I come across any.  Does anyone else have any ideas?

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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: Cactus Grafting Competition 2013/2014 [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #19203256 - 11/29/13 12:45 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Dammit I am a noob with pereskiopsis and seedlings.. haw haw..

I hope NOW my grafts takes on!

Wish me luck!:tongue2:

At first I find out one loph seems to attach to persekiopsis but week or so later a seedling just doesn't grow much.

Also.. I am at point to propagating a pereskiopsis, So actually I have lots of more seedlings than proper stocks.

I want to ask about one thing: What makes perskiopsis growing fat? Light intensity, fertilizers or both?

I am sure I have strong lights for them but my pereskiopsis doesn't grow as fat as I want. First time I obtain this cactus some time ago so I am noob with pereskiopsis and grafting with it.. :dancer:

Or does pereskiopsis get fat over the time they grow?
Can I use fertilizers more to get them grow fat, atleast nitrogen increase cause trichocereus growing more fat I have find out.:sun:


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InvisibleSuperD
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Loc: The bridgesii bridge
Re: Cactus Grafting Competition 2013/2014 [Re: intelligentlife]
    #19203331 - 11/29/13 01:20 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I keep my peres fat by giving them high levels of light with a touch of shade, and daily watering.  The soil stays damp/wet and I don't allow it to dry out at all.


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:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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OfflineGoOnThen
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Re: Cactus Grafting Competition 2013/2014 [Re: SuperD]
    #19203369 - 11/29/13 01:38 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Definitely grow fatter outside in the shade than under fluros but I like the size that they grow under fluros.

You can definitely feed them without any problems. There isnt really much you can do to them that they wont take in there stride.

Cheers
Got


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa


Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
Re: Cactus Grafting Competition 2013/2014 [Re: intelligentlife]
    #19203467 - 11/29/13 02:58 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I got 6 or 7 grafts that haven't done much other then plump up a bit and not die. I clumsily decapitated a few others while moving things. A few more didn't take and just shriveled up.  To me its been a numbers game and a learning experience. I could easily graft and grow non stop if I had the space and funds.  Really waiting for that day when  my plants can go full circle and I sow my own seeds. Maybe next winter, that would be sweet.

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Invisibleanne halonium
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Re: Cactus Grafting Competition 2013/2014 [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #19203648 - 11/29/13 05:29 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

with perskiopsis fatness,
it comes down to light power/ color and wind stress.

at about 100W LED @ one foot distance, 6500K+, they will get about 3/4 diameter as an outside grow.

this is problematic,
as alot of you cant achieve the power level in your grow areas.

one way to get around it is to grow peres, outside or in windows for fatness, then cut and bring inside.

keep in mind , peres fatness, realy doesnt mater as much as peeps think.
observe the pic below.



note peres diameters.

point is, seedlings and clones, can do fine, on some thin peres.


one of my upcoming teks, deals with this,
and how to get around it all, in full indoor grow action.
in the meantime, worry about graft quality and crop handling,
peres size, isnt as important as ya think.


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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: Cactus Grafting Competition 2013/2014 [Re: anne halonium]
    #19204003 - 11/29/13 08:41 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Well I have good amount of light I can offer for them.. 400Watt worth of HSP+MH..

Let's say all cacti grows very good under these lights, pereskiopsis don't... I keep them now in mini-greenhouse so they have some moisture, I probably move them under strong artificial light.

I have seen photos from setups about pereskiopsis with cfl with much less power and light what I have.
But as I said.. I find out my trichocereus grows very slim when there was major lack of fertilizing so I was think could I have a problem with fertilizers instead of lights.

Well.. I need to find out.. I move pereskiopsis soon out from miniature greenhouse and try build some humidity capturing cap over the pot where they are.

But anyway, do they fat up when they grow but not so much?

I meant like trichocereus pup forms, it will grow minor way more diameter when it's getting longer but not so much it can be seen so obviously. Because when I have pereskiopsis shooting new branches, they are very slim so I think when I let them grow will they gain even some diameter more or do they stay as they are?

I am very noob with pereskiopsis anyway.. I keep soil constant moist, also I know foliage tell some about light intensity..
afaik very narrow and sharp-style leafs indicate poor light and foliage more fat and not so "sharp" indicate they receive a good light to grow.

Anyway I think I have a soil problems instead of lighting.. Last summer proof me with columnar cactus they doesn't grow fat and big spines when they just don't receive enough fertilizers and especially when they lack of nitrogen.. After good amount of nitrogen given to columnar cacti, they starts to gain diameter lots and spines was way more stronger and better than before.

Could pereskiopsis cactus gain similar benefits from nitrogen fertilizing if I assume I have a problem with soil? How much perekiopsis can handle fertilizing?:tongue2:


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Invisibleanne halonium
jaguarette
Female

Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
Re: Cactus Grafting Competition 2013/2014 [Re: intelligentlife]
    #19204181 - 11/29/13 09:43 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

trust me, its about light primarily.
if i wasnt pressed for time ATM, i pry have pics to prove it.

im anne halonium.
essentially the poster girl for ferts.
the standard hydro fert mix i use for my hyper lophs (@ about 2 centimeters a month) . will literally kill well ferted soil based peres.
i actually have to amp them into hydro over several weeks of fert adjustments.

whole reason i use hydro for peres, it that soil cant take the ferts, peres does, without souring.

its light , and light color game , and wind / shaking stress.

once again, ya can grow golf ball size lophs, on half thick peres.
thickness, doesnt count as much as ya think.



nobody sharp, should lose the day , cuz of a thin peres.



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:aliendance:

Edited by anne halonium (11/29/13 10:27 AM)

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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: Cactus Grafting Competition 2013/2014 [Re: anne halonium]
    #19204663 - 11/29/13 12:12 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Okey, I get your point..

I probably write wrong what I meant to ask.

Because I just have a pereskiopsis in soil, I don't have time to keep hydro, some times I don't even look my garden for long time.

Anyway, I have just realize cactus growth can be literally stopped and etiolated bad without proper fertilizers.. I mean when I give very rich NPK + all other shit ferts to my trichs, they just starts to grow more fat and spines was also more bigger.

Howver, I have not problem about lights, I have enough of it.

I use professional greenhouse lights fro plants:



These will generate shitloads of light, all plants in living room where I keep artificial sun because there are no sun right now cause I am so away at arctic. Chili plants grow very good and big fat foliage even they are 2meter away from light source..

Because I use these also for use of human so I know when it's day and how much clock is, also these greenhouse lights reduce winter depression what is common here because long 2month long darkness.

I change lighting timers and adjust them to work to go intensifying and then reducing.

First of all 150Wattage metal halide goes on at 6AM, at 8AM 250Wattage high pressure sodium starts to give more light. Then at 7PM 250Wattage bulb shut down and all away to 9PM 150Wattage metal halide bulb gives blue light and then starts night again.

I have cfl differently used for seedlings and so on. These strong lights are hanging above windowsill table where is trichocereus and few cacti, basically taking light but not much of a water. I don't think these lights are too poor for pereskiopsis.. :yesnod:

I should try just grafting for smaller diameter pereskiopsis. or grow them more if they possible starts to grow more fat more they reach a light.
Also I have take a cuttings of pereskiopsis, plant them and wait they grow but it's obvious, all plants need a fertilizers.. They are living and need food.

Anyway, I could use these lights all on same time but problem is 400Wattage of lights at living room are maybe too intensive for human and 150Wattage light are nice and not "too strong"

These lights will generate enough of lumen and lux, Also UV-radiation and heat important for plants. We have there very cold frosts all the time so heat from lights ain't not bad at all. Also, it keeps some cycle for human also even most benefit from lights are purposed to get food crop plants over winter like chili, cucumber etc..

In a nutshell: My problem is that pereskiopsis diameter is smaller than trichocereus seedligns, lophophora seedlings are just way too fat for pereskiopsis or can I graft ~2-3times bigger diameter lophophora to pereskiopsis, how I aim the vascular?

I have only graft with bigger scale, also minor injury of my hand makes hard to work with so small parts of plants. :rolleyes:

Well, I probably let pereskiopsis grow, I have now few graft attemps, some of them are grafted with small amount of super glue and humid area, some of them are used cling film and clip to keep some pressure.. Hope I can success some so I can show a pics.. Always anyway scions has been rot even I use clean and sharp knifes and act fast.. I have learn faster graft is done, better the success rate is. :headbang:

Is it true when scion is planted to stock they should not receive strong light at time when they attach to each other? how long pereskiopsis usually need to attach a scion?

Also, can semi-woody parts be used as stock if I keep relatively stronger pressure to scion or do pereskiopsis grafts needs always a growth tip cut?

If I success now with my grafts I have try to do, I show pics about them.. :smile:

I don't know does pereskiopsis are then different plants what doesn't need any fertilizers and therefor are different from another cactus plants..?
It just doesn't fit to my mind about plant can grow without any "food" given for it. Atleast trichocereus and few other plants can be seen very clearly when they have a dose of fertilizers, they sure grow better as well as speed and diameter of cactus compared to cactus with lack of fertilizer.

Anyway, thanks for info, I try how I success, then I take photos, how long I should keep cling film get over the scion before I remove it?

I have no idea how fast pereskiopsis can attach to scion and I have find out scions are very poor attached and fragile at their first time, are they or does my grafts has doomed to fail again? They are firm but last time I think I success but small touch to scion after 8days of graft it drops away by accident I hit it with my finger.. :rolleyes:


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Invisibleanne halonium
jaguarette
Female

Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
Re: Cactus Grafting Competition 2013/2014 [Re: intelligentlife]
    #19204813 - 11/29/13 12:53 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

i see your concerns.

pereskiopsis , is like no other cacti ive ever encountered.
if one wants fat peres, and wide leaves, the sun is the answer for now.

any light, anyone has, is not the actual sun.
pereskiopsis , reflects its grow box indoors.
it is sensitive to spectra.
it can grow like wild, and still be highly variable.

i have a very busy weekend, lemma pull the nikon out in a few days.
were getting about 75-80% outdoor fatness values with heavy LED shifted towards the blue spectra.

power range translated, would be about 300W metal halide, the bluest, covering about 2x2 square , at about 10 inches above the peres line.
translated again......"baking in a hot light oven at about 7500k"

as said, i know where your at,
peres dont respond always as ya think they will.


you can graft some pretty big stuff to a smaller peres.
super glue, exceeds wrapping in those cases.

yes you can use woody stock.
good luck cutting it.

the actual surgery of grafting, is sorta like diamond cutting.
your never gonna win every one perfect.
there is some loss.
however,
ive run about 90%+ success over the last several yrs.
we just did 16 , and lost only 1.

it does have a skill element like sterile work with fungi.


i suspect , we shall see many twists and turns in this contest.
it will be like a "speed racer" marathon episode or something.

Edited by anne halonium (11/29/13 12:59 PM)

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Invisiblemodern.shaman
San Mescalito
I'm a teapot


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 3,267
Loc: Zone 13
Re: Cactus Grafting Competition 2013/2014 [Re: anne halonium]
    #19205068 - 11/29/13 02:27 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Pereskiopsis girth is also clone dependent. I have two different clones one is thin with small leaves the other is much fatter and larger leaves. The fatter clone does grow faster and pushing more growth to the scion. No amount of sun makes my thin pereskiopsis thicken like the larger clone. Older/longer pereskiopsis due get thicker and similar to trichocereus the more root space the thicker it can potentially be.

You can graft wide scions on thinner stock however takes a little practice. You would offset as usual and leave the scion hanging. You could also attempt an impale graft which is when you sharpen the stock and insert into the scion.

I remove the the cling wrap after 2 or 3 day and put them back into the original lighting of the stock (full sun) right after. I do reduce the amount od sunlight when grafting if its in ful sun in the summer but any other time I leave them where they are.

I dont get much difference in growth with or without fertilizers on my pereskiopsis so I keep it to a minimum. I try not to let the soil dry out but growth rate is constant either way.

I wouldnt suggest using old growth to graft as the vascular ring wont fuse easily if already hardened/woody.


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InvisibleSuperD
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Posts: 6,648
Loc: The bridgesii bridge
Re: Cactus Grafting Competition 2013/2014 [Re: modern.shaman]
    #19205131 - 11/29/13 02:48 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Does yours look like this m.s?  This is the gigantic one next to a regular spathulata, it just towers over all the others lol.  I haven't even begun grafting with them yet since I got some earlier this year..been propagating them a bit before I start making grafts.  The size and bulk is really impressive for a pere. :thumbup:



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:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa


Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
Re: Cactus Grafting Competition 2013/2014 [Re: modern.shaman]
    #19205299 - 11/29/13 03:28 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I poked around with the impale graft this season.  Seems to work great.  Some weird growth I'm noticing.  Like the button split its growth style half normal then 2 buttons on the other half right out the top new growth.  Like all the juice is going right to the top first instead of flowing from the base.  Probably impaled it too far.

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Invisiblemodern.shaman
San Mescalito
I'm a teapot


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Re: Cactus Grafting Competition 2013/2014 [Re: SuperD]
    #19205543 - 11/29/13 04:35 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

SuperD thats it... Its quite impressive and the leaf thicken after grafting or topping it I assume thats where it stores it water.

There is an even larger monster that looks like a tree. Im pretty sure it was a misID Quiabentia however it could be pereskiopsis idk. Im on the phone this weekend so ill post the photo I found online Sunday.


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InvisibleUneak
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Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 413
Re: Cactus Grafting Competition 2013/2014 [Re: modern.shaman]
    #19206703 - 11/29/13 10:15 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Here's my only graft so far. I'll probably graft more soon, though all I sowed were diffusa seeds, and I don't want too many grafts of it. It's growing slowly, though I'm not too worried about it. :stoned: This thread really makes me want to do seed shopping. Maybe as an early Christmas present to myself. :lol:




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InvisibleMostly_HarmlessM
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Re: Cactus Grafting Competition 2013/2014 [Re: Uneak]
    #19211211 - 12/01/13 04:37 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

This is my favourite from my grafting this year.
I am preparing some different stock for the offset.



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InvisibleSuperD
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Re: Cactus Grafting Competition 2013/2014 [Re: Mostly_Harmless]
    #19212350 - 12/01/13 12:05 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mostly_Harmless said:
This is my favourite from my grafting this year.
I am preparing some different stock for the offset.

]




It almost looks like a beautiful fireworks display :psychsplit: Very nice.


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:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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OfflinePOWAtrippinDiscord
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Re: Cactus Grafting Competition 2013/2014 [Re: SuperD]
    #19212365 - 12/01/13 12:07 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

All my grafts just went from shaded sun to mostly full sun, hopefully they won't bitch too much


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Invisiblemodern.shaman
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Re: Cactus Grafting Competition 2013/2014 [Re: POWAtrippin]
    #19212757 - 12/01/13 01:36 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

As long as the stock was in full sun before you used it as a stock they should be fine.


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