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Anonymous #3
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home [Re: Anonymous #3]
#18815896 - 09/08/13 04:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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You could also just say that someone is trying to break into your house and not mention that you knew it was a pig.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 9 hours, 30 minutes
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home [Re: Enlil]
#18815914 - 09/08/13 04:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: The proper answer to each question is, "I do not consent to any searches whatsoever, but I will not physically hinder any actions you choose to take against my will"
Great advice!
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home [Re: Anonymous #3]
#18816146 - 09/08/13 05:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Anonymous said:
Bullshit! There was a story about an 18 year old girl who basically said the same thing while on the phone with 911. A scumbag neighbor of hers was trying to break in to rape her, she said something like "I'm scared can I shoot him if he gets in?" The 911 dispatcher said I cant tell you to do that but you have the right to protect yourself.
Was the neighbor wearing a police uniform? I didn't think so.
You are clearly talking out of your ass here. Someone breaking into your house doesn't give you the right to kill them in any state in the country. At most, it gives you a rebuttable presumption that you're in reasonable fear of serious bodily harm. That presumption, however, is pretty much rendered moot if you know that it's a cop coming into your house.
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Anonymous #3
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home [Re: Anonymous #3]
#18817221 - 09/08/13 11:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
At most, it gives you a rebuttable presumption that you're in reasonable fear of serious bodily harm.
In which you could react to
and also
Quote:
Anonymous said: You could also just say that someone is trying to break into your house and not mention that you knew it was a pig.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home [Re: Anonymous #3]
#18817814 - 09/09/13 04:36 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Again, you are talking out of your ass here. A rebuttable presumption just means that IN COURT, the state has the burden of rebutting the presumption. In their case in chief, they introduce the 911 call where you say that cops are outside your house, and they've almost certainly rebut that presumption unless you have the most jaded jury on the planet.
Even without the 911 call, the fact that the cops have uniforms make it very easy for the state to rebut. As I said before, unless you happen to have the gun on your lap and shoot the instant that the door opens, you're probably fucked on a self-defense argument. If you had time to identify the "intruders" as cops, it's going to have a very hard time convincing a jury that you were in reasonable fear of imminent serious bodily harm.
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ch1ck3n.s0up
Troubled Loner



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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home [Re: Enlil]
#18818396 - 09/09/13 10:18 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Notwithstanding the above discussion, in some circumstances, I think that answering the door--with the chain--is the best option.
Heck, what if they just want you to move your car?
-------------------- "Inspiration ~ Move me brightly ~ light the song with sense and color ~ hold away despair ~ more than this I will not ask ~ faced with mysteries dark and vast ~ statements just seem vain at last" --Jerry Garcia, Terrapin Station "Officer, I'm going to remain silent, and I would like to speak with a lawyer. I'm not resisting, but I don't consent to any searches.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home [Re: Enlil]
#18820027 - 09/09/13 06:29 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
fastfred said: Hopefully Enlil will back me up on that. One peep and the officer can testify to the court that you sounded intoxicated, high, nervous, deceptive, belligerent, incoherent, angry, etc. and that in their experience that indicated that more likely than not a crime was in progress, which justifies whatever action they took.
I can't back you up on that. Being intoxicated, high, nervous, deceptive, belligerent, incoherent, or angry doesn't give the cops any probable cause to support a search or a warrant for a search of your home.
I wasn't really saying this gives them cause, but it is something they will say at trial. It's another nail in your coffin and makes you sound like a scumbag. Many jurors will think that shitfaced drunk = most likely a criminal. The officer can continue to spin that by saying that "In my many years of experience I have found criminal activity 99% of the time in people who respond this way."
If things work out right, and often they don't, a judge will suppress the evidence. I think when a jury hears this though they go with their gut and you're sunk.
In any case, we both seem to agree that saying anything can only hurt you.
Quote:
Notwithstanding the above discussion, in some circumstances, I think that answering the door--with the chain--is the best option.
Heck, what if they just want you to move your car?
Wrong. There's two ways that goes. If you car is parked legally then who gives a shit? If it's parked illegally then you're facing a parking ticket, or at most a $150 tow charge. If things go south on you you're facing a hell of a lot more than that.
Any interaction with the police can quickly go south on you, non-interaction very, very rarely can ever hurt you.
-FF
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home [Re: fastfred]
#18820046 - 09/09/13 06:33 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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The jury won't ever hear the officer's opinion about what this means in 99% of the cases. It's highly unlikely the jury will hear anything about the conversation unless it directly bears on whatever you're charged with.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home [Re: Enlil]
#18820127 - 09/09/13 06:50 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The jury won't ever hear the officer's opinion about what this means in 99% of the cases. It's highly unlikely the jury will hear anything about the conversation unless it directly bears on whatever you're charged with.
I've seen it a few times. "He looked, sounded, and acted like he was high on drugs, which is why I searched him for drugs." They can make it sound pretty reasonable in court.
That's a big stretch if all they have is the sound of your voice, but that's still one more thing they will have than if you stayed silent.
Don't put it past them to say they heard a lighter, bong or pipe hit, distorted voice like holding in a hit, and coughing. If they say this combined with the fact that you were slurring your words in an intoxicated way while taunting them from the other side of the door... it can be convincing.
And what if they parlay that? Your voice, responses, and other noise led them to believe a crime was in progress or someone's safety was in danger. So they forced the door open with no intention of entering or searching. At which point they visibly observed you or your place which indicated a crime was in progress.
I'm no legal expert, but I've seen many things floated before. IME you've got a maybe 50/50 chance of getting something clearly illegal suppressed, and that involves $1,000's in legal bills.
So whether or not it eventually holds up you're still fucked. If you give them anything you may well be out your money, drugs, property, cash, and freedom. Eventually getting some of that back is really not a "win" for the person involved.
-FF
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SteelPanther


Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 3,453
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home (moved) [Re: fastfred]
#18820931 - 09/09/13 09:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I am not sure if this is 100% correct but I have believed that they required probably cause and evidence to enter. Since they have no evidence of the smell of weed unless another person attest to the smell they cannot enter. I may be wrong though.
-------------------- Everything I say on here is not true, I am an insecure person who lies about doing drugs and stuff to make myself feel good. So any illegal things I may have talked about are all fictional.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home (moved) [Re: SteelPanther]
#18822039 - 09/10/13 04:42 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes, you are wrong.
They need a warrant to enter. They need probable cause to get a warrant. Probable cause can be based on a sworn statement from any person, including a cop.
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xfsketch
Conky



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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home (moved) [Re: Enlil]
#18918359 - 10/01/13 09:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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this is some highly informative and wild shit!!! I personally think most of our enforcers are corrupt due to greed and power!
-------------------- Might Take Some Time, But I Will Find It! Whatever it is. Im a determined person!
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Anonymous #4
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#19049298 - 10/28/13 10:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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simple "DON'T ANSWER THE DOOR"
Never ever answer the door. They can not come in. Unless they hear screaming for help or reason to believe someone, even your self is in harms ways.
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Rockhound
The Rockweiler



Registered: 01/19/13
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home [Re: Anonymous #4]
#19050125 - 10/29/13 02:09 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Don't open the door, don't consent to searches, don't say anything except for yes or no. 3 simple rules to live by.
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