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Offlinexbloodwhipx

Registered: 02/24/12
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Could you use force to keep a police out of your home
    #18753577 - 08/24/13 11:40 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

If like, a cop came to your door with no warrant because your neighbor reported smelling marijuana. He ask if he can come in and search your house. You say no and he starts trying to push his way in.

What could you legally do to keep him out of your home?

Just a random though I had.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home (moved) [Re: xbloodwhipx]
    #18753581 - 08/24/13 11:41 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

This thread was moved from The Pub.

Reason:
More topical forum


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home (moved) [Re: johnm214]
    #18753584 - 08/24/13 11:42 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

you have no power in that situation. I mean, even with video evidence, good luck suing a cop


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OfflinegENERIX
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home (moved) [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #18755110 - 08/25/13 01:01 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Is the suspected smell of marijuana probable cause to allow the police to enter?!


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Offlinexbloodwhipx

Registered: 02/24/12
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home (moved) [Re: gENERIX]
    #18755652 - 08/25/13 03:32 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

gENERIX said:
Is the suspected smell of marijuana probable cause to allow the police to enter?!



I thought they needed a warrant to enter your home, and probable cause only allows cops to search your car?


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home (moved) [Re: xbloodwhipx]
    #18755750 - 08/25/13 04:02 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

gENERIX said:
Is the suspected smell of marijuana probable cause to allow the police to enter?!





Probably, but probable cause isn't enough for the police to force a warantless entry into a residence.


Quote:

xbloodwhipx said:
Quote:

gENERIX said:
Is the suspected smell of marijuana probable cause to allow the police to enter?!



I thought they needed a warrant to enter your home, and probable cause only allows cops to search your car?





THere isn't a contradiction between these two positions.  Warrants are issued upon a finding of probable cause.


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Offlinexbloodwhipx

Registered: 02/24/12
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home (moved) [Re: johnm214]
    #18756070 - 08/25/13 05:19 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

So would you get in trouble if you pushed him back and locked your door?


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Invisiblemytehdogizflying
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home (moved) [Re: xbloodwhipx]
    #18756373 - 08/25/13 06:22 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

xbloodwhipx said:
So would you get in trouble if you pushed him back and locked your door?




You could be charged with assaulting an officer.


--------------------
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Offlinexbloodwhipx

Registered: 02/24/12
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home (moved) [Re: mytehdogizflying]
    #18756377 - 08/25/13 06:23 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mytehdogizflying said:
Quote:

xbloodwhipx said:
So would you get in trouble if you pushed him back and locked your door?




You could be charged with assaulting an officer.




Whaaaaat? Even if hes trying to illegally enter your house?


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home (moved) [Re: xbloodwhipx]
    #18757371 - 08/25/13 09:57 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

xbloodwhipx said

Whaaaaat? Even if hes trying to illegally enter your house?





Yes.  The laws against assaulting an officer do not have an exception for when cops are breaking into your house.


Your only remedies are calling the cops, section 1983 lawsuit, filing a complaint at the station,  or filing a motion to suppress the evidence.


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OfflineRockhound
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home (moved) [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #18757602 - 08/25/13 10:50 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Don't open your door,talk to him ((or her) through the window.An open door and a step back on your part could be construed as a non-verbal invitation.Tell him through the window you do not consent to a warrantless search.


--------------------
Rocks speak to me, and tell me this:
The Hell Creek formation is a gigantic slab of rocks that covers several western states. It contains an account of the dinosaurs' demise.  In the late Cretaceous period, the first Cannabis species appear, and soon after, all the non-bird dinosaurs disappeared. Obviously, marihuana killed the dinosaurs. That giant meteor that smacked the yucatan peninsula right afterwards, coincidence.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home (moved) [Re: Alan Rockefeller] * 1
    #18757635 - 08/25/13 10:56 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

NEVER open the door for the cops or anyone you don't know. NEVER means NEVER.
Especially if you look freaky, smell like weed, or are a minority.

If they have a warrant let them break the door down.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home [Re: xbloodwhipx]
    #18758789 - 08/26/13 08:16 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Think about it this way, if any stranger tries to push his way into your door, you don't have the right to use force to stop him unless you're in reasonable fear of imminent battery.  Of course, many states create a presumption of reasonable fear when you're in your home, but those statutes rarely apply to police.

So, the question is:  Can you prove that you were in reasonable fear of imminent battery?  If the cops are in uniform, you're going to have to prove that despite his badge and uniform, a reasonably prudent person would be afraid of being harmed by the cop.  That's a very tough sell, and I doubt you'd be able to do it.

Simply put, these situations should be handled later in litigation...not in the heat of the moment.  Using force to stop a cop is never going to work to your advantage.  At best, you'll end up being arrested and charged with an assault that might later be dismissed.  At worst, you'll be shot dead and your family will sue the cops.


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Offlinexbloodwhipx

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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home [Re: Enlil]
    #18761381 - 08/26/13 08:54 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Think about it this way, if any stranger tries to push his way into your door, you don't have the right to use force to stop him unless you're in reasonable fear of imminent battery.  Of course, many states create a presumption of reasonable fear when you're in your home, but those statutes rarely apply to police.

So, the question is:  Can you prove that you were in reasonable fear of imminent battery?  If the cops are in uniform, you're going to have to prove that despite his badge and uniform, a reasonably prudent person would be afraid of being harmed by the cop.  That's a very tough sell, and I doubt you'd be able to do it.

Simply put, these situations should be handled later in litigation...not in the heat of the moment.  Using force to stop a cop is never going to work to your advantage.  At best, you'll end up being arrested and charged with an assault that might later be dismissed.  At worst, you'll be shot dead and your family will sue the cops.




So im guessing if you had a pistol on your waist, legally, and they tried to enter your home illegally, and you tried to stop them with force, they tried to shoot you and you shot them first, youd be charged with murder?

Thats fucked up...


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home [Re: xbloodwhipx]
    #18761420 - 08/26/13 09:01 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

That would depend on if anyone died, but yes...if you shoot a cop, you're going to be charged.


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Anonymous #2

Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home [Re: Enlil]
    #18761617 - 08/26/13 09:49 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

You have ZERO right to defend yourself against police.  It's the way the law is written.  You could come home from work and find a cop torturing your newborn baby by shoving a red hot poker into the baby's eyes.  Know how much right you have to defend yourself or your helpless infant?  ZERO.  That's why we wind up with cases like where 10 cops in plain clothes run out of the shadows, draw guns on someone, and in the course of fleeing they accidentally graze a cop (causing no injury) with the bumper of their car.  The innocent escapee then typically faces felony resisting with violence charges.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #18762545 - 08/27/13 04:35 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Anonymous said:
You have ZERO right to defend yourself against police.  It's the way the law is written. 



This isn't true, either.  The reason that most self-defense claims fail when the victim is a cop isn't because of how the law is written.  It's because of the built-in credibility that cops enjoy.


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InvisibleCounterCulturest
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home (moved) [Re: johnm214]
    #18764441 - 08/27/13 03:19 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

gENERIX said:
Is the suspected smell of marijuana probable cause to allow the police to enter?!





Probably, but probable cause isn't enough for the police to force a warantless entry into a residence.


Quote:

xbloodwhipx said:
Quote:

gENERIX said:
Is the suspected smell of marijuana probable cause to allow the police to enter?!



I thought they needed a warrant to enter your home, and probable cause only allows cops to search your car?





THere isn't a contradiction between these two positions.  Warrants are issued upon a finding of probable cause.




I thought that is exactly what probably cause was ?

I was under the impression that if an officer could smell weed then he could enter or if he saw a pipe on the table through the window, he could enter. No ?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home (moved) [Re: CounterCulturest]
    #18764475 - 08/27/13 03:26 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

CounterCulturest said:
I was under the impression that if an officer could smell weed then he could enter or if he saw a pipe on the table through the window, he could enter. No ?



The cops need a warrant to enter a residence in most cases.  Having probable cause without a warrant is NOT enough.


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Could you use force to keep a police out of your home (moved) [Re: Enlil]
    #18764545 - 08/27/13 03:41 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

but probable cause is all they need to get a warrant, correct? So it would be the beginning of them entering, if they felt the need to be dicks and get the warrant.


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