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OfflineBeppoMarx
old hand
Registered: 09/01/01
Posts: 1,126
Last seen: 19 years, 3 months
Re: Use of spices to inhibit bacterial growth in substrates? [Re: TaoinShrrom]
    #1909305 - 09/12/03 11:20 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

<---- excited about this find. soon as i can get back into mycology (soon hopefully :smile: ) i will first use garlic or allspice powder in casing layer only to see if mycellium likes it, then in jars as well.

chickass :smile:

edit

preliminary teste might include mixing garlic powder with agar mix at different amounts (.5% up to maybe 5% or so...) and seeing which ones can germinate from multispore innoc, and the same with tissue or mycellium transfer.

i wonder how garlic or allspice would affect the pH level...


--------------------
Holy shit people; COMMON SENSE! we were all born with it where did it go?
maybe theres a tek out there to explain how to use it!
BUCKETS BRIGADE left hand man!!!

Edited by BeppoMarx (09/12/03 11:34 AM)

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OfflineHigh_On_Magic
Moderator
Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 134
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
Re: Use of spices to inhibit bacterial growth in substrates? [Re: BeppoMarx]
    #1912629 - 09/13/03 12:31 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

yeah what if you just threw a decent amount of garlic powder into your casing layer before you baked it? ima give it a try in the next month or so, but does anyone think that some arlic powder will mess with the ph of my jiffy mix. gotta love the jiffy mix, took me a while to find some but, i hit a motherload of old stock. haha

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Offlinedefsound
Stranger
Registered: 09/02/03
Posts: 3
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
Re: Use of spices to inhibit bacterial growth in substrates? [Re: High_On_Magic]
    #2078605 - 11/06/03 09:00 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

So has anyone tried the spice route as a way to prevent bacillus (wet spot) and aspergillus problems in cakes or casings? Would garlic inhibit mycelial growth?

Spices info

Edited by defsound (11/09/03 04:59 PM)

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Offlinef8L
Triumph

Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 397
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: Use of spices to inhibit bacterial growth in substrates? [Re: defsound]
    #2078624 - 11/06/03 09:06 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

... most others of the spices you listed, in essential oil form, are precursors to methoxy analogues of MDMA.




You have no idea what the fark you are talking about.

Edited by f8L (11/06/03 09:07 PM)

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Invisiblesakura
Aussie Expat

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 592
Loc: Japan
Re: Use of spices to inhibit bacterial growth in substrates? [Re: TaoinShrrom]
    #2418232 - 03/11/04 05:52 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Thought I might bring this thread back... (just found it and noticed that there are no results posted)

Did anyone have any joy with this?


--------------------
Shrooms aren't everyone's cup of tea... (Some folks just eat 'em)

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Offlinedebianlinux
Myconerd - DBK
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 8,334
Loc: Over There
Last seen: 1 year, 20 days
Re: Use of spices to inhibit bacterial growth in substrates? [Re: sakura]
    #2418486 - 03/11/04 08:26 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Here's my wager:

Garlic will prevent mycelial growth on a substrate (or at least severely stunt it).

Here's my suggestion:

Mix garlic powder/oil/whatever in the water used to wet a casing mix prior to casing so the applied casing would be garlic rich. Any decent cultivator doesn't have issues with getting mydelium to fully colonise substrate but we all have issues with casing layers getting trich or cobweb. I'd imagine a garlic enriched casing layer to be impervious to trich and cobweb but to not have any negative impact on fruiting.

It'll be awhile before I can test this theory. anybody on the verge of applying a casing who wants to try this idea?

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Anonymous

Re: Use of spices to inhibit bacterial growth in substrates? [Re: zeronio]
    #2422928 - 03/12/04 08:10 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

So, this is all very interesting. We have done experiments with mushrooms to see which had anti bacterial properties. I dont know what the results are though. ANy ways I thought that mushroom piss or I mean metabolites are antibacterial. So maybe keep a bag of spawn around and let it get old and collect the metabolite and try that? That stuff is used I belive to fight contams isnt it?

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Offlinediscored
newbie
Registered: 12/18/03
Posts: 34
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
Re: Use of spices to inhibit bacterial growth in substrates? [Re: TaoinShrrom]
    #2457346 - 03/21/04 01:01 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

i was reading last night that ancient mesopotamians would use sesame oil in dressing their wounds to prevent bacterial infections, just thought id throw in..




ddiscored

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InvisibleSpeeker

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 898
Re: Use of spices to inhibit bacterial growth in substrates? [Re: discored]
    #2457470 - 03/21/04 01:58 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)


Quote:

ancient mesopotamians would use sesame oil in dressing their wounds to prevent bacterial infections




Maybe this explains these agar additives...
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Forum13&Number=2386026#2386633

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OfflineAeolus1369
Dr. Seahorse
Male

Registered: 05/20/02
Posts: 367
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
Re: Use of spices to inhibit bacterial growth in substrates? [Re: hyoomen]
    #2459224 - 03/22/04 12:10 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Is there any concern that oil would be too difficult for the mushrooms to metabolize? If this were the case, then essential oils would be out.

--Aeolus

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OfflineTaoinShrrom
The Action inInaction

Registered: 07/03/03
Posts: 98
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
Re: Use of spices to inhibit bacterial growth in substrates? [Re: Aeolus1369]
    #2482707 - 03/30/04 02:37 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

As the originator of the thread I feel I owe some comments on my discoveries. I have had a bit of an absence from the scene for a while (namely that my last big round was a complete disaster, I was careless with making my new spore syringes and got 100% contamination and my micro bags melted in the pressure cooker, so I lost the last of my strain, ect. ect. I will stop whining now :smile: ) but I am back again and have some information on this topic.

First off the antimicrobial properties of these spices are decreased DRASTICALLY by heat. I finally dug up a couple of studies on Biosis that showed this relationship beyond my observations. It?s not something you can add to grain and then pressure cook and hope to have any effect.

Also all the research I could dig up showed that the garlic extract in an oil substrate was by far the most effective form, much better than a water or alcohol extract.

Finally, there seems to be a strong antifungal property to the essential oil and not just antibacterial.

What I have tested is garlic in a WBS substrate, one not heated, one boiled briefly and one pressure cooked at normal. Two of each in each group, one was left sealed the other was opened. The sealed pressure cooked jar did not get any contamination; the opened pressure cooked jar exhibited some seriously nasty contamination. The boiled and unheated versions did show significantly less and slower contamination (the sealed jars actually only had spot contamination even in the unheated) but there certainly was contamination. So it has to be accompanied by pressure cooking, yet pressure cooking seems to destroy the antimicrobial properties.

Now I haven?t had a chance to see if it seriously retards mycelium growth because I am just now getting back up to the point that I have enough spawn to play with. But I think there might be some uses of a garlic oil extract for managing specific outbreaks. Personally I think this stuff is significantly stronger than any hydrogen peroxide but it might harm mycelium. I have a feeling a well established network of mycelium would not be that effected though. The application of all this in my head is a spray bottle or something similar with the extract that could be applied to spot contamination on a casing.

I think the big unanswered question here is how badly it hurts mycelium. I will work on it eventually but I have to re-establish :smile:.

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InvisibleATWAR
Connoisseur

Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 1,640
Loc: #108768 in line...
Re: Use of spices to inhibit bacterial growth in substrates? [Re: TaoinShrrom]
    #2484286 - 03/30/04 04:19 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

So... Garlic isn't the best choice for an additive. Don't let your hopes down when one proves inadequate. This thread showed promise. Lets step back in time a bit...

There were more spices listed. The application of which is not limited to jars, the casing layer has been mentioned also. The actual substrate could be "spiced up" helping the spawn run beat the bacteria. Pasteurizing the substrate at much lower temps than pressure cooking could also help the antibacterial agents survive. I really don't think this to be necessary for jar incubation (except perhaps grain transfers or PF-style cake grows), but could prove useful in an agar recipe, substrate, or even a casing mix to prevent mold. These substances could be be added to the dunk water for you cake fans out there, perhaps even supporting the use of a nutrient dunk. It can have antifungal properties and still work in your favor, but not those which stop your species from growing. Even a mixture of 2 weaker spices could prove to be one potent combination.

I would figure essential oils are the way to go, as the actives would probably be much more concentrated and in easily measurable/applicable form. I think I will give some of the more fragrant of the spices a try in substrate or casing mixes. At the very least I would end up with a mint shroom or some other flavor...  :tongue:


--------------------
To give is to live...


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OfflineTaoinShrrom
The Action inInaction

Registered: 07/03/03
Posts: 98
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
Re: Use of spices to inhibit bacterial growth in substrates? [Re: ATWAR]
    #2485075 - 03/30/04 07:54 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Definatly oil extractions no questions about that one, the literature is pervasive on that point.

The big thing is that it seems that all of these effects rely on enzymatic properties or protien structure so that anything (i.e. heat) that denatures said protiens will destroy most of the antimicrobial function. So any use has to be after any massive exposure to heat.

The big unanswered question here is the effect on the mushroom mycelium. If someone is paying attention and has some spawn to spare if we could get this answered it could either close out the idea or really get it started. If there is not significant effect on established mycelium growth then I can think of all kinds of uses. But until I can test it (or one of you :smile: ) I offer caution.

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InvisibleATWAR
Connoisseur

Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 1,640
Loc: #108768 in line...
Re: Use of spices to inhibit bacterial growth in substrates? [Re: TaoinShrrom]
    #2487788 - 03/31/04 05:04 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

I could easily test spices againsed mycelium growth, but I also imagine that certain species would be greater affected by the active ingredients than others.

I would also like to know if any spices would be effective againsed the common molds that contaminate our casings...


--------------------
To give is to live...


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Offlinefeb
Horn dog with acorn dog.
Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 21
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: Use of spices to inhibit bacterial growth in substrates? [Re: TaoinShrrom]
    #2487850 - 03/31/04 05:31 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

In a previous post I mentioned a patent where they used a cellulose-free substrate to grow shiitake?s and other mushrooms with garlic as an antibacterial agent.

I?m currently testing a slightly modified version of this method with pleurotus and shiitake.

-feb

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Offlinemycoguy
old hand

Registered: 03/25/04
Posts: 874
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
Re: Use of spices to inhibit bacterial growth in substrates? [Re: TaoinShrrom]
    #2523540 - 04/04/04 12:24 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

to test this...grow some molds/fecal coliform, etc on agar in petri dish. add the herbs on top, BEFORE the mold grows ( to see if it PREVENTS growth)
and also add it on top of another dish AFTER the mold grows (to see if it will KILL the growth)


--------------------

(and no, that's not me in the avatar)
Yahoo! Pacific Northwest Mycology Group

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