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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Winding down.
#18750756 - 08/24/13 09:43 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's pretty clear now, to me at least, that whatever is going on is way beyond comprehension.
There has been so many posts over my years here with people giving their best guess on the meaning of it. None of them seem to see things exactly the same way all the time. This is a pretty good indication imo that no one really knows.
Now personally I don't have a problem with best guessing as long as we are aware that's what we are doing. It seems though that that is very hard for many to accept. It's quite important to know for sure it seems. But personally I think we'd all get on a lot better if we didn't go that route and I think our explorations would be furthered if we weren't trying to be sure. Just exploring things and sharing without any attempts to convince others we are correct. I think things like science and technology would progress a lot faster if each researcher could see this and let go of the ego trip (imo) of being right. It's slowed human progress on all levels down to a crawl.
My 2 cents as things are winding down.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
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Loc: Daid
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touché
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falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
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Ego is what drives a lot of scientists to excel IMO, so even though it gets in the way of working together towards an understanding of a subject, there would probably be a lot less information to share without they're ego trips.
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eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--



Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
Loc: isle de la muerte
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Re: Winding down. [Re: falcon]
#18751369 - 08/24/13 12:46 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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whaddya mean by 'winding down?'
-------------------- ...or something
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DisoRDeR
motional



Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 1,158
Loc: nonsensistan
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It seems like a lot of those cultures that got on without taking their best guesses seriously and trying to convince others were swallowed up by know-it-all cultures. So at the time their cultures collided, it was either dig in and defend or start feeding on the new bullshit.
I see it as a meta-exploration process, in which each position is defended to the end on all available justifications like a court case, but some verdict is continually being polled from the great jury in the marginalization or broad acceptance of a best guess. It's one big 'anything goes' debate, with the mechanisms by which people are convinced being iterated alongside the arguments.
At least the amount of suffering seemingly incurred or averted by a position is now used as a metric for evaluation by many people. It's taken a while, but I think we're in a time when the proselytizing of harmful absurdities is met with increasing eyerolls in the world. Now that know-it-allism is apparent in all it's contradicting flavours to most anyone who has the will and capability to look, perhaps the globs of unthought can be dissolved from within. Logic for the win.
What's winding down anyhow?
Confucius says: Fly a kite until things wind down, then tourniquet and stay upwind of the wounded.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Winding down. [Re: eve69]
#18751829 - 08/24/13 02:34 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
eve69 said: whaddya mean by 'winding down?'
It's a personal thingy.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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cez


Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--



Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
Loc: isle de la muerte
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Re: Winding down. [Re: cez]
#18752387 - 08/24/13 05:12 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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but i dont get why winding down and winding up are the same thing
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
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Re: Winding down. [Re: eve69]
#18752760 - 08/24/13 07:15 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well some things are confusing and some things i really know for sure.
I am not sure whether it is right to participate in this world.
What I do know is that something is sustaining all of this. Without a deeper 'soul' or 'being', none of this would be sustainable.
As bad as it can ever get there will always be another happy moment
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Withinity
Untitled


Registered: 04/11/10
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2cents , well spent.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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I was just recommending somebody Undoing Yourself by Christopher S. Hyatt, towards the end there's this biographical part that reads:
Twenty four years have past and I am sitting at my Macintosh writing this. I still don't know how I got here and where I am going. I do not feel bad about this. It is no longer necessary to know what is going to happen next. One day I will disappear in the same way I appeared. I do not know when, just like before. It will just happen. One day, I will be gone. Until then I will just keep doing and being done to.
~~~
Felt a little bit serendipitous reading your thread
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Quote:
Icelander said: It's pretty clear now, to me at least, that whatever is going on is way beyond comprehension.
There has been so many posts over my years here with people giving their best guess on the meaning of it. None of them seem to see things exactly the same way all the time. This is a pretty good indication imo that no one really knows.
Hmm, isn't this a rather self-defeating viewpoint? On the one hand you claim no one really knows, which includes yourself, but this is itself a belief; you seem certain that no one really knows. Maybe a better way to phrase this would be that it could be that no one really knows, but you're not sure. Wait, even that sentence implies certainty. A better version would be that you're not certain whether it could be that no one really knows, but this too will require appending the phrase "I am not certain that" in front of it. And so on, and so on. Can one meaningfully state your theory of uncertainty without being forced to go into infinite regress with something like "I am not certain that I am not certain that I am not certain that..." ad infinitum. I'll get back to you when I feel certain I have the right answer. 
Quote:
Icelander said: But personally I think we'd all get on a lot better if we didn't go that route and I think our explorations would be furthered if we weren't trying to be sure. Just exploring things and sharing without any attempts to convince others we are correct. I think things like science and technology would progress a lot faster if each researcher could see this and let go of the ego trip (imo) of being right. It's slowed human progress on all levels down to a crawl.
Got any specific examples of researchers on an ego trip, at least with respect to science? I probably agree with you at an intuitive level, but I think the likelihood of researchers giving up the ego trip is vanishingly small to none.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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birdland

Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 2,202
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Re: Winding down. [Re: deCypher]
#18753878 - 08/25/13 02:18 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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We feed all the top researchers copious amounts of psychedelics, just be sure no ego gets in the way 
Nice OP btw
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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You are beyond comprehension because you are infinite, anything we can comprehend is finite
If it was finite we could perfectly understand the universe/ourself and wrap this up once and for all, but it remains a total mystery, we don't know what anything actually is, we gives things names like trees or cats, but we don't have a clue what they actually are, because we can't explain anything it implies everything nature is ultimately infinite, incomprehendable
Maybe saying its infinite is a guess based on intuition, but when you contemplate the universe it makes a lot of sense that it is infinite, most cosmologists gut feeling is that it is infinite, when people have universal consciousness experiences they intuitively feel it is infinite because it feels limitless, so we have this idea of infinity, of existence being beginngless & endless, limitless
So, if it is infinite, then it is not apart from anything, including you, you are that, fact, but when we think we become limited, we think about our stories our memories our identity etc... that is all finite thinking so it limits who you feel you are, so to realize the infinite you, if its even possible, one must stop thinking of the finite, perhaps through the thought of the infinite, and the infinite can only ultimately be yourself, so it is the thought 'who am i?' or any thought that focus on the feeling of yourself, you think of NOTHING else, consistently over & over you think of who you are, and you feel it, don't think it, any thought would again be a limit, a comprehension, we have become habituated to thinking & limiting who we feel we are, so you have to start a new habit of going beyond all that, a habit of diving deep into yourself, sniffing out yourself, follwing your bliss, there is no other way to understand or experience who you truly are apart from looking yourself in the eye
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Winding down. [Re: falcon]
#18754264 - 08/25/13 07:19 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
falcon said: Ego is what drives a lot of scientists to excel IMO, so even though it gets in the way of working together towards an understanding of a subject, there would probably be a lot less information to share without they're ego trips.
Too bad ego is their only or major motivator rather than a thirst for knowledge. Seems weak and petty and there is plenty of examples of how that slows down progress as they spend time trying to put down, suppress or ignore each others work.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,761
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i think it's speeding up in directions that we have not been following
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falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
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Last seen: 8 hours, 9 minutes
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Or does this process winnow out sloppy unsubstantiated work, force cooperation among like minded individuals, who must to gain credibility, work together to show its usefulness and show that it's reproduce-able. Too much acceptance, leads nowhere, science is verified by works in the tangible world that are reproduce-able.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Winding down. [Re: falcon]
#18755701 - 08/25/13 03:43 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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No one said that all work must be accepted no matter how bad. You seem to be going somewhere I haven't been.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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c0sm0nautt

Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
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Well said. All I'll say is keep an open mind. I believe that we all have help, and don't shut yourself off to this.
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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I felt this was relevant, mainly because it points out that whatever we can comprehend is not real, and what we can not comprehend is real, when it seems the other way around!
You believe that everything your senses show you and tell you is real. And you believe ultimate reality, perfection, infinite love, absolute awareness doesn't exist, or if it exists you don't know anything about it.
The truth is it's just in reverse. What you cannot comprehend. What you cannot see, touch, feel, smell, taste, is the reality. And what you've been worshipping all these years, a home, a couch, a chair, a car, money, the body, is false. It's false because you have to leave it in the end. That which is not true all of the time cannot be real. And everything in this universe changes to something else. No thing lasts forever.
Yet there is something that is unchangeable, unmutable. Something you can rely upon. Something that will always take care of you and save you and watch over you. And that something is your Self. You are the one. Your Self is not your body or your mind or your thoughts or your opinions. Your Self is absolute reality. Your Self is existence, knowledge, bliss. You are that Self.
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