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InvisiblePsilopsychosis
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Psychosis or something else? * 1
    #18750867 - 08/24/13 10:15 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

The truth will set you free but first it will make you fucking miserable.

On Monday. afternoon I went to local forest to harvest some birch paper and meditate in the woods. Later that evening I went to my fire pit and built a small fire with the birch paper, some old cedar planks and some maple branches that had fallen off in a storm. I used the log-house type method. I waited until the almost full moon was high in the sky. I heard some wolves howling when I started making the fire but by time I was done they were long gone. I used my lighter to light the birch paper.


The flame was burning the fire unevenly favouring the windy side so used a large square piece of PT to stoke the flames. Once it was going good I sat down and pulled out my smokes. I took out two cigarettes, one was just a Pall Mall and the other was hand rolled Indian tobacco.


I sparked the rolled cig, inhaled and coughed. Large head rush hits my brain like a wave hitting a boat, rocking but not capsizing. I feel my mind become stimulated by the nicotine; my thought process starts to speed up. Then I remember I forgot to offer some to my host. 

 I threw the other cig into the fire saying, "Gitche Manitou" as an offering to The Great Spirit. Leaning back in my chair I puffed on the cigarette but not inhaling smoke. Jitters in my stomach start to settle.  


Usually I just smoke this then start communing/praying/rambling to the rest of the universe very informal like but earlier today I had read Crkhd's method on this thread. I decided to try the focus on intention thing instead of having a long drawn out reasoning or plea in mind. I realized suddenly remembering what I wanted to do, that I had forgot the intention. Fuck. I had planned to ask for healing and love to deal with some weirdness I have been experiencing with my perception/thought process that I have never experienced before in my psychosis.


Somehow however, sitting there, holding an almost smoked cigarette. It just didn't seem the time ask for healing and love. Wisdom, was what I needed, the intuitive ability to know when to internalize certain weirdnesses and when to tell someone. So without saying anything I held that word focused in my mind for about a minute. Then I pulled out my lighter(cigarette in mouth), lit it and hesitated for a moment. Could I really handle some of God’s wisdom if it chooses to indulge my intention?

The another part of my mind responded. You will only know that after.

So I lit the remainder of the cigarette, breathed deeply and coughed. Throwing the rest of it into the fire it actually dawned on my what happened. I felt absolutely no impulse to say anything to God. There was nothing to say because there was nothing to be said. The whole part of my mind where I was thinking of things to say that would please The Great Spirit  disappeared, completely. I couldn’t think of anything except the smell of the woodsmoke, the noise of the insects and crackling of the fire, and the light of the moon and the flames and the feeling of my ass in the chair. God wasn’t standing beside me. It was inside of me and all around me at the same time. It didn’t care what I was saying because it knew my the intentions of my heart and my deepest thoughts. That is because I was God, or at least a piece of it. It isn't easy to describe the change because it was subtle.  I felt more lucid  then I have in a long time but at the same time less sure of myself and my relation to the rest of the universe.

I said, “Thanks God.” I forced myself to say a short prayer as well but it felt like I was talking to myself, for my own benefit.

After about half and hour sitting in silence I forced myself to say, “Thanks again I really can’t overstate what a good thing you have done for me.”

A small voice/thought in the back of my mind answered, “Then shut up.”

I looked a the side of the forest that was light up by the moon. At first I thought the trees were moving but then I realized that my brain was updating my reality. It was like my HPPD(shroom-like breathing ground) but at the same time more intense but more natural feeling if that makes any sense. And this only seemed to happen when I was in the dark and there was enough ambient light to see the trees.

So what do you think, am I about to dive into another few months of psychosis or was this a genuine spiritual experience?

I can answer more questions and write about the aftermath when I get home later tonight.I doubt anyone cares though. And I was(and still is) as sober as it gets.


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Offlinelolwut
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: Psilopsychosis]
    #18752886 - 08/24/13 07:56 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

False dichotomy. I would call that a moment of clarity in which you may have seen the insignificance of holding such grandiose ideas as "there is a spirit watching over me and I need to ask him for good stuff otherwise he will send me bad stuff"

I don't know if you would classify that as a spiritual experience as it negates a large part of many people's spirituality but imo that's a valuable perspective to have seen from


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: Psilopsychosis]
    #18754088 - 08/25/13 04:52 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)



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Offlineeve69
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: zzripz]
    #18754174 - 08/25/13 06:23 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

are you psychotic?  it's not necessarily the stigma that medicine makes it out to be and there are all sorts of levels of it. but they are all bound by an overdose in the brain of dopamine which makes one more prone to act upon their audio/visual brain centers. as you will then know, at times it is hard to differentiate between reality and imagination.  you already know what to do. it is likely you can 'feel' psychosis from other physical signs like change in appetite and nausea and headaches. maybe learn to sense the physical signs if the mental ones are hard to get a fix upon.


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InvisiblePsilopsychosis
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: eve69]
    #18754312 - 08/25/13 07:38 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
I think you get this great book and read it: The Spiritual Gift of Madness: The Failure of Psychiatry and the Rise of the Mad Pride Movement, by Seth Farber




I already realize psychiatry is full of it but I need psychiatry to live in this twisted society. I just don't see any other options.



Quote:

eve69 said:
are you psychotic?  it's not necessarily the stigma that medicine makes it out to be and there are all sorts of levels of it. but they are all bound by an overdose in the brain of dopamine which makes one more prone to act upon their audio/visual brain centers. as you will then know, at times it is hard to differentiate between reality and imagination.  you already know what to do. it is likely you can 'feel' psychosis from other physical signs like change in appetite and nausea and headaches. maybe learn to sense the physical signs if the mental ones are hard to get a fix upon.




Yes I have psychosis. Id say however that it is side-effects that are causing the physical signs, the symptoms come from and exist inside my mind. They both come together to suck a lot.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: Psilopsychosis]
    #18754649 - 08/25/13 10:13 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

i think it is important to be oriented to healthful opportunities,
and if you need to imagine that a ritual will put you in that frame of mind, then that is what you must do.

it is indirect and can catch you up in internal dialogues that are prone to doubt, such that you ask others if it is ok or wise to continue.

I do not do that, for me it is not direct, for me it is proxy magic - i.e. it is the delegation of tasks to mental constructs rather than personally addressing that which is before you (your living experience - as it is).

for me "manitou" or "god" is another way of saying all that is, and if I take it to mean anything other than that I am making up a proxy to what I know and am connected to.

Naturally 'all that is' is too big to articulate in words, except in poetry.

Would I build a ritual fire and use it as a meditation aid while camping? Maybe.

Would I ask spirits to help me be well and happy and help solve problems that are beyond my reach? Probably not;
but I would be very vigilant if in need, for suitable opportunities, and an open mind will help, and some meditation may help with that.

Putting spirits or constructs between self and that which is,
and having conversations with them or other commerce, is a side trip or distraction:
I think it does cross the line into the land of psychosis, but so does a lot of other habits that attempt to rearrange life by indirect means (indirect implies a gap which often seems a form of dishonesty - and that introduces doubting and gamey-ness among the extra mental activity).


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #18754710 - 08/25/13 10:33 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I would take antipsychotics because schizophrenia is neurodegenerative and you'll get stupider and stupider as the days go by, while antipsychotics may restore some of the chemical imbalances slowing this process down.

Plus you're not even experiencing life with this illness in its unchecked form, you're just a vegie.


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TESTED
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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: Psilopsychosis]
    #18755069 - 08/25/13 12:48 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I encouraged you to read that book--with a critical mind of course--because as you are aware, this is very complex, and as much as I enjoy taking part on these boards there is only so much info and links I can share. To really get in-depth you gotta do the research and read book(s).

For example, it is hard to convey the immense power over our minds the mental illness myth has. it is in comparison with the myth it took over from as a major source of social control--the religious/Christian myth.

In the book there are interviews with people who have been right in the thick of having been told they are chronically ill and will need medication for the rest of their lives, but then they get inspiration to see this is a HUGE lie and they come off it (with support of course)

It is hard for may people to grasp just how corrupt the psychiatric establishment is! So to undermine it you got to do the research and this may help it really sink in and thats where you will get spirit


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InvisiblePsilopsychosis
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #18755221 - 08/25/13 01:46 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I see what you are saying but I wasn't putting some smaller manitou or spirit in between the self and that which is.
I honestly thought I(ego) was the self and was communicating with that which is. Said thought  was a delusion, I think now.

Quote:

Circastes said: I would take antipsychotics because schizophrenia is neurodegenerative and you'll get stupider and stupider as the days go by, while antipsychotics may restore some of the chemical imbalances slowing this process down.

Plus you're not even experiencing life with this illness in its unchecked form, you're just a vegie.





First of all, I am on antipsychotics. I am switching from ziprasidone to abilfy. Yesterday was first day 10mg abilify no ziprasidone. I am neither completely zombiefied nor completely med free. Limbo.

Second of all, it is not clearly understood why some people have their cognitive functions damaged by psychosis. It appears to be years or decades of untreated psychosis that causes that. There is no evidence that says people who go off their meds and are sane have cognitive damages. In countries with less acess to psychiatric drugs people recover faster from mental illness. Think about that man.

I do however know at least one guy who had his brain destroyed by psychosis. Real sad. Probably mid 40's and there isn't a whole lot going on upstairs.


Edited by Psilopsychosis (08/25/13 01:55 PM)


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InvisiblePsilopsychosis
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: zzripz]
    #18755259 - 08/25/13 01:54 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
I encouraged you to read that book--with a critical mind of course--because as you are aware, this is very complex, and as much as I enjoy taking part on these boards there is only so much info and links I can share. To really get in-depth you gotta do the research and read book(s).

For example, it is hard to convey the immense power over our minds the mental illness myth has. it is in comparison with the myth it took over from as a major source of social control--the religious/Christian myth.

In the book there are interviews with people who have been right in the thick of having been told they are chronically ill and will need medication for the rest of their lives, but then they get inspiration to see this is a HUGE lie and they come off it (with support of course)

It is hard for may people to grasp just how corrupt the psychiatric establishment is! So to undermine it you got to do the research and this may help it really sink in and thats where you will get spirit





Who do these people live after coming of meds can the live by themselves and lead successful lives?
Or are they living in group homes and hospitals the rest of their lives?

Sometimes I think about walking into a psyche ward, going off meds and working through it.
The thought that holds me back is if they would ever let me out again, even if I was sane.

Or moving to Peru and living in the jungle for the rest of my life using ayahuasca to treat it.
Or just being a homeless hippie in the Canadian crown land using shrooms and LSD to treat it.

A man can dream can't he?


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: Psilopsychosis]
    #18758336 - 08/26/13 02:36 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Psilopsychosis said:
I see what you are saying but I wasn't putting some smaller manitou or spirit in between the self and that which is.
I honestly thought I(ego) was the self and was communicating with that which is. Said thought  was a delusion, I think now.

Quote:

Circastes said: I would take antipsychotics because schizophrenia is neurodegenerative and you'll get stupider and stupider as the days go by, while antipsychotics may restore some of the chemical imbalances slowing this process down.

Plus you're not even experiencing life with this illness in its unchecked form, you're just a vegie.





First of all, I am on antipsychotics. I am switching from ziprasidone to abilfy. Yesterday was first day 10mg abilify no ziprasidone. I am neither completely zombiefied nor completely med free. Limbo.

Second of all, it is not clearly understood why some people have their cognitive functions damaged by psychosis. It appears to be years or decades of untreated psychosis that causes that. There is no evidence that says people who go off their meds and are sane have cognitive damages. In countries with less acess to psychiatric drugs people recover faster from mental illness. Think about that man.

I do however know at least one guy who had his brain destroyed by psychosis. Real sad. Probably mid 40's and there isn't a whole lot going on upstairs.




I dont really understand this character here ---username Circastes. His message is straight up supporting biopsychiatry, and he seems to believe, because he claims to have what they label him as having, that this must mean he knows what he says on these boards is true. But if so where is his evidence for his assertion? Like the APA (psychiatric establishment) he does not have any! They were challenged by psychiatric survivors who went on hungerstrike, and the APA failed to present solid medical scientific evidence. (You can read all about this online. Google 'Mindfreedom hungerstrike)

He states that
Quote:

schizophrenia is neurodegenerative and you'll get stupider and stupider as the days go by




--is that so? WHERE is the evidence? IF that were the case how come people who have been diagnosed with schizophrenica and psychosis and biploar and combinations of labels they--the bioshrinks--put on people, that they DO come off so-called medication, and they then are alright? And also some who have not taken any medication also alright, and we see that what is being labeled is really a spiritual healing process, and not a biological disease (Google 'John Weir Perry DIABASIS, and 'SOTERIA HOUSE')

And how come he doesn't know about the truly damaging effects coming from the DRUGS that are supposed to treat these 'diseases'? (read Toxic Psychiatry: Why Therapy, Empathy and Love Must Replace the Drugs, Electroshock, and Biochemical Theories of the "New Psychiatry")

You reply:
Quote:

Second of all, it is not clearly understood why some people have their cognitive functions damaged by psychosis. It appears to be years or decades of untreated psychosis that causes that. There is no evidence that says people who go off their meds and are sane have cognitive damages. In countries with less access to psychiatric drugs people recover faster from mental illness. Think about that man.




You start off saying that years of untreated psychosis causes brain damage. Where is your evidence for that assertion? But then follow and contradictorily say that "In countries with less access to psychiatric drugs people recover faster from mental illness". If the latter is right--for which there IS evidence for--this disproves the former belief that untreated 'psychosis' is neurodegenerative, right!

But this is exactly what I mean, this is why people who need to get wise to what is going and and thus get empowered, and being able to undermine the power of biopsychiatry NEED to read(and there are also videos of course) the criticism of biopsychiatry.


Edited by zzripz (08/26/13 02:39 AM)


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: zzripz]
    #18758403 - 08/26/13 03:23 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Le's we not forget Russell Crowe's character in the Movie "A Beautiful Mind" which is based on the true story of John Nash.

Inspirational movie imo, especially when looked upon with reference to this thread.


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InvisiblePsilopsychosis
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: cez]
    #18758464 - 08/26/13 04:25 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

You start off saying that years of untreated psychosis causes brain damage. Where is your evidence for that assertion? But then follow and contradictorily say that "In countries with less access to psychiatric drugs people recover faster from mental illness". If the latter is right--for which there IS evidence for--this disproves the former belief that untreated 'psychosis' is neurodegenerative, right!




I don't think psychosis is neurodegenerative in the sense that it breaks parts of the brain. It can however hurt one's cognitive functions over time. I don't know where to find proof but apparently this is a well known if poorly understood facet of psychosis.

I can tell you from personal experience that I know people who used to be engineers who are never going to be engineers again because, as I said, there isn't much going on upstairs. Go out and volunteer with psychosis clinics and you will see people that really challenge your skepticism. I am serious man. Give it a try, just once. For every 6 people that seem normal their will be 2 that appear retarded. It is fucking sad man.

I threw in the other point because I wanted to illustrate that the psychosis is just not well understood.


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InvisiblePsilopsychosis
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: cez]
    #18758466 - 08/26/13 04:26 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

cez said:
Le's we not forget Russell Crowe's character in the Movie "A Beautiful Mind" which is based on the true story of John Nash.

Inspirational movie imo, especially when looked upon with reference to this thread.




Never actually seen that movie, I've heard it is good.


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: Psilopsychosis]
    #18758473 - 08/26/13 04:29 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

It's awesome, check it out :thumbup:
That movie captures my :heart:


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: cez]
    #18758579 - 08/26/13 05:39 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

My psychiatrist always has warned about the possibility of brain damage and my older brother who has a more severe form than me is a little bit slow.


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My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: Psilopsychosis]
    #18759377 - 08/26/13 12:03 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Psilopsychosis said:


I don't think psychosis is neurodegenerative in the sense that it breaks parts of the brain. It can however hurt one's cognitive functions over time. I don't know where to find proof but apparently this is a well known if poorly understood facet of psychosis.




What does "hurt one's cognitive functions overtime" mean? With respect, it is myths like this which make chronic patients of people labeled with these labels. The shrinks tell them that if they do not take their meds for life than this means they will suffer brain damage. it is total bullshit and they have no medical scientific evidence to support what they claim! Things can be "well known" but that doesn't necessarily make thejm true. MANY people--millions-- believe in biopsychiatry--don't make it true. Millions believe in the Pope--don't make it true.

Quote:

I can tell you from personal experience that I know people who used to be engineers who are never going to be engineers again because, as I said, there isn't much going on upstairs. Go out and volunteer with psychosis clinics and you will see people that really challenge your skepticism. I am serious man. Give it a try, just once. For every 6 people that seem normal their will be 2 that appear retarded. It is fucking sad man.

I threw in the other point because I wanted to illustrate that the psychosis is just not well understood.




And I am assuming if you know they had the labels you claim they had they also got the 'treatment' which is drugs? As they do in 'psychotic clinics. DRUGS. it is their drugs that destroy the nervous and the soul! Read the book I linked you to--it is all there.

Of course they don't know about 'psychosis' but this doesn't stop them pushing their toxic drugs on uninformed people which NOW includes children, even as young as 3-4 years old, and even younger, babies!


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: zzripz]
    #18759787 - 08/26/13 02:27 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

The only way out of schizophrenia and brain damage is to recognise the completely unknown nature of reality and have the intention of healing yourself. In other words, you perform some kind of magic upon yourself. The culture has nothing to do with anything, see reality for yourself.

I would be both a victim of frontal lobe syndrome and schizophrenic cortical deterioration if it weren't for this very magic.

Just got to convince yourself it's going to happen.

The culture and civilization is just behind where I am, it's not that I'm just plain crazy. Someone has to be the pioneer.

Good luck I hope it works out for you, just question question question and you'll start getting answers and you'll start getting what you want.

Man is a divine being and his fate is never sealed, there is always a way out for you. This is why I have begun to heal, because I do not accept my fate is sealed. It doesn't make sense. So it doesn't stay that way...

:heart:


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My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: circastes]
    #18759802 - 08/26/13 02:31 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Oh and there was a pretty cool guy in that What The Bleep Do We Know film who wrote a book which touched on these cancer patients and his own back injury and how they came out of it all fine, and all it came down to what they at their core accepted was going to happen. The book was called Evolve Your Brain.

Stop doubting, start believing. Fix yourself with your own little slice of the magic of the universe then maybe see about spreading the word.


--------------------
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My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: circastes]
    #18759847 - 08/26/13 02:42 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Yes. IF you have 'experts' telling you in absolute clear sure terms that your are a defective biochemical machine that has (xyz) label, and is chronically ill, and will need medication for life, then this must have an affect on how you will feel!

People believe their authority, and even their families carry this on like little psychatrist wardens---all the time wanting to know if you have taken your "meds". And you see this propaganda on TV, in the media. So the pressure is VERY oppressive, and this is why it is very important to start researching critics of this biopsychiatric model which is pushed on everyone. In this way you can begin seeing through what is going on. AND finding others who have and are also exposing this abuse of people, and this means finding a community of others that help support each other against this massive oppression. This is what the Mad Pride Movement is all about.


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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: zzripz]
    #18760958 - 08/26/13 06:53 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

zzripz, your concern about getting on a lifelong regimen of antipsychotics is justified, but only because our current drugs aren't that sophisticated; they have terrible side effects and don't work that well because they tend to only treat the symptoms of schizophrenia and not the cause.  However, I see nothing wrong with a potential treatment of schizophrenia at the biochemical level: why do you think such a thing is impossible?


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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: zzripz]
    #18761010 - 08/26/13 07:05 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Yes. IF you have 'experts' telling you in absolute clear sure terms that your are a defective biochemical machine that has (xyz) label, and is chronically ill, and will need medication for life, then this must have an affect on how you will feel!

People believe their authority, and even their families carry this on like little psychatrist wardens---all the time wanting to know if you have taken your "meds".
And you see this propaganda on TV, in the media. So the pressure is VERY oppressive, and this is why it is very important to start researching critics of this biopsychiatric model which is pushed on everyone. In this way you can begin seeing through what is going on. AND finding others who have and are also exposing this abuse of people, and this means finding a community of others that help support each other against this massive oppression. This is what the Mad Pride Movement is all about.




So true.

Honestly man, I have three years in this early psychosis intervention program, after that I am a free man once again. I will have hopefully completed college and moved away. That will be an excellent time to go off of meds. Right now, you need to understand I have whole circle of care keeping tabs on me as well as a family that has bought the whole psychiatric treatment notion hook, line and sinker. I just don't think it is feasible, I don't live in the right environment. I shouldn't have to lie to everyone. I hate lying. I feel like an asshole.

Someday I will have the right environment where people are open minded and I will have a sanctuary from the world where I can act a little weird for a few months to work through it. That would be the time, not now.

In the meantime I will read that book. Might as well right?


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: deCypher]
    #18762356 - 08/27/13 02:19 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
zzripz, your concern about getting on a lifelong regimen of antipsychotics is justified, but only because our current drugs aren't that sophisticated; they have terrible side effects and don't work that well because they tend to only treat the symptoms of schizophrenia and not the cause.  However, I see nothing wrong with a potential treatment of schizophrenia at the biochemical level: why do you think such a thing is impossible?




Because, as I keep trying to explain--and encouraging people to read the evidence-- 'schizophrenia' is not a biochemical disease, that is why. So all this gaff 'we will have the right drugs soon' is just typical promissory materialism; the reductionist belief that mind/soul can be reduced to chemical components in some future and chemically treated. Scientific materialists use it to explain away anything they do not currently understand whilst demanding that their worldview MUST remain until they do!

These shrinks love the labels they fix on people--making money out of them at the same time-- but are yet totally blind to their own insanity, which reminds me of this quote:


Quote:


Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.




Albert Einstein


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: Psilopsychosis]
    #18762373 - 08/27/13 02:27 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Psilopsychosis said:
Quote:

zzripz said:
Yes. IF you have 'experts' telling you in absolute clear sure terms that your are a defective biochemical machine that has (xyz) label, and is chronically ill, and will need medication for life, then this must have an affect on how you will feel!

People believe their authority, and even their families carry this on like little psychatrist wardens---all the time wanting to know if you have taken your "meds".
And you see this propaganda on TV, in the media. So the pressure is VERY oppressive, and this is why it is very important to start researching critics of this biopsychiatric model which is pushed on everyone. In this way you can begin seeing through what is going on. AND finding others who have and are also exposing this abuse of people, and this means finding a community of others that help support each other against this massive oppression. This is what the Mad Pride Movement is all about.




So true.

Honestly man, I have three years in this early psychosis intervention program, after that I am a free man once again. I will have hopefully completed college and moved away. That will be an excellent time to go off of meds. Right now, you need to understand I have whole circle of care keeping tabs on me as well as a family that has bought the whole psychiatric treatment notion hook, line and sinker. I just don't think it is feasible, I don't live in the right environment. I shouldn't have to lie to everyone. I hate lying. I feel like an asshole.

Someday I will have the right environment where people are open minded and I will have a sanctuary from the world where I can act a little weird for a few months to work through it. That would be the time, not now.

In the meantime I will read that book. Might as well right?




I really understand your situation, and it is like this for many people. That is the oppression. The biopsychiatric model is THE model that is pushed on people, unless you have a lot of money. And then you have your family to contend with. Do you know about The Icarus Project ? This is an online community which is part of The Mad Pride Movement, and as well as here you could find community that will understand what your going through and offer support and contacts.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: zzripz]
    #18762381 - 08/27/13 02:31 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
'schizophrenia' is not a biochemical disease, that is why.




So you claim.  Got any evidence to support that?  If you alter the biochemical functioning of the brain you will see that the mental processes associated with that brain change; it makes sense that it's at least theoretically possible to produce a change in brain chemistry that would be correlated with a beneficial change in corresponding mental processes, alleviating the harmful symptoms of the schizophrenic sufferer.  :thumbup:

I am not talking from a perspective of reductionist materialism here, by the way.  I do not think that the mind does not exist, nor that the brain is ontologically superior or somehow more fundamental than the mind.  But I do believe that observable brain processes are strongly correlated to mental processes, so strongly that a change in one almost necessarily produces change in the other.  Schizophrenia is a name for what is an apparent disorder of thought; the person suffering from schizophrenia is exhibiting abnormal mental processes.  Given the correlation between mind and brain, abnormal mental processes signifies abnormal brain processes, so I see no reason why causing the brain to start functioning normally wouldn't also cause the mind to start behaving normally as well.  Or if you disagree, why so?

Side-tangent:

In case you're interested I'd describe myself as a neutral monist: mind and matter are two perspectives of the same fundamental substance, two categories that describe the same thing.  Reductionist materialists fall into the trap of saying that mind is "just" matter, which ignores the very real subjective experience or qualia we all have, while New Age idealists fall into the opposite yet just as fallacious trap of saying that all matter is "just" mind, which ignores the very real physical world which doesn't just go away when we stop believing in it.  The only other alternatives are that both matter and mind exist, yet are different substances, and that matter is mind yet neither is reducible to the other.  The former is substance dualism a la Descartes, and is rife with problems, the least of which is explaining how the two substances interact and how exactly causality works between the two realms.  The latter is neutral monism, which is at least intuitively appealing from the standpoint of the psychedelic experiences we Shroomerites tend to share even if the bald statement of equivalence seems contradictory at face value.  But then again, so does the statement "All is One", yet many of us would agree that contradiction is true from certain perspectives of ego loss.  :psychsplit:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Offlinelolwut
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: zzripz]
    #18762404 - 08/27/13 02:42 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Quote:

Psilopsychosis said:
Quote:

zzripz said:
Yes. IF you have 'experts' telling you in absolute clear sure terms that your are a defective biochemical machine that has (xyz) label, and is chronically ill, and will need medication for life, then this must have an affect on how you will feel!

People believe their authority, and even their families carry this on like little psychatrist wardens---all the time wanting to know if you have taken your "meds".
And you see this propaganda on TV, in the media. So the pressure is VERY oppressive, and this is why it is very important to start researching critics of this biopsychiatric model which is pushed on everyone. In this way you can begin seeing through what is going on. AND finding others who have and are also exposing this abuse of people, and this means finding a community of others that help support each other against this massive oppression. This is what the Mad Pride Movement is all about.




So true.

Honestly man, I have three years in this early psychosis intervention program, after that I am a free man once again. I will have hopefully completed college and moved away. That will be an excellent time to go off of meds. Right now, you need to understand I have whole circle of care keeping tabs on me as well as a family that has bought the whole psychiatric treatment notion hook, line and sinker. I just don't think it is feasible, I don't live in the right environment. I shouldn't have to lie to everyone. I hate lying. I feel like an asshole.

Someday I will have the right environment where people are open minded and I will have a sanctuary from the world where I can act a little weird for a few months to work through it. That would be the time, not now.

In the meantime I will read that book. Might as well right?




I really understand your situation, and it is like this for many people. That is the oppression. The biopsychiatric model is THE model that is pushed on people, unless you have a lot of money. And then you have your family to contend with. Do you know about The Icarus Project ? This is an online community which is part of The Mad Pride Movement, and as well as here you could find community that will understand what your going through and offer support and contacts.




I'm just wondering what your angle is here? I don't mean any offence but you have been saying mental illness doesn't exist here for a long time while there are many of us here who have had psychosis or bipolar or schizophrenia or ptsd or anxiety or paranoia and so on and who have experienced first hand just how much medication and associated therapies helped our recovery, some still using it to this day.

I'm wondering if you know anyone diagnosed with something in person, or if you yourself have been unfairly labelled, or something. Most of us have been open and answered questions so I'm wondering from what place your apparent prejudice against the mental health industry is coming from - scientific or something else.


--------------------
Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth, and taste...

:haha:


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Offlinecrkhd
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: lolwut]
    #18762511 - 08/27/13 04:11 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Psychosis is temporary.


Hell is eternal. Psychosis is just a pointer to heaven or hell. I've been in and out of that shit many times. It finished with Nirvikalpa Samadhi and I don't intend to go again, this place is already a mad house.

In all honesty being in the loony bin was merely the lecture. It's examination time now.

Hell is a glass prison of our own sorrows. Richard Feynmann demonstrates something AWESOME in his book QED The Strange Theory of Light and Matter. If you can understand the brutal simplicity of quantum electrodynamics, it's literally as simple as observer/system defined by each other.


Peer out into the heavens. At some time T, the Sun will expand and overwhelm the Earth and this too must pass. We have a choice: get off the Earth before T_critical or burn in Hell for eternity, until such as time that God sees fit to remove those beings from that glass prison.


The fact that The God literally wants The Best for you and no less, is embodied in the Least Action Principle/Path of Least Resistance/Path Integral formulation of quantum mechanics. Your mind takes the sum of all possible paths of your desires.


Purify your desires. To truly see the world we must learn who our 'enemy' is. And as a man I will tell you that it can be Woman, so purify your desires and know who your truest of Loves is, because she is literally waiting for you on a distant star somewhere burning to death because flesh doesn't really last long in white hot heat.


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific


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Offlinecrkhd
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: crkhd]
    #18762517 - 08/27/13 04:17 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

But then as a man I will tell you,


Woman embodies biological life. Mother Nature in reference to biological life, is very smart regarding her children.

Female=>Female=>Male
Female=>Female=>Female

These are the possible paths for human life to succeed in incarnation.

Within our Selves we have four voices. Explore them. Roots of the tree. Then knowing the roots, learn how to grow towards the Light as a plant.


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: crkhd]
    #18762682 - 08/27/13 06:42 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

that shit was deep


--------------------
...or something







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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: deCypher]
    #18763674 - 08/27/13 12:21 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

zzripz said:
'schizophrenia' is not a biochemical disease, that is why.

So you claim.  Got any evidence to support that?  If you alter the biochemical functioning of the brain you will see that the mental processes associated with that brain change; it makes sense that it's at least theoretically possible to produce a change in brain chemistry that would be correlated with a beneficial change in corresponding mental processes, alleviating the harmful symptoms of the schizophrenic sufferer.  :thumbup:




Yes. But you will have to do the work reading it, because it cannot be expressed in a few sentences. Psychiatric survivors did a hungerstrike to challenge the Psychiatric establishment (APA) to provide medical evidence that mental illness (including schizophrenia etc etc) was a biochemical disease. The APA couldn't but of course as is typical of them were very evasive and deceptive with LANGUAGE, pretending that they were proving it. But they didn't! And when pressed to provide evidence after their first failed attempt they did not have the courtesy to carry on the dialogue--which any real people presenting real science would have done--they just released a press release expanding more of their mental illness myth propaganda: Hunger Strike News Release & Fact Sheet

Quote:

I am not talking from a perspective of reductionist materialism here, by the way.  I do not think that the mind does not exist, nor that the brain is ontologically superior or somehow more fundamental than the mind.  But I do believe that observable brain processes are strongly correlated to mental processes, so strongly that a change in one almost necessarily produces change in the other.  Schizophrenia is a name for what is an apparent disorder of thought; the person suffering from schizophrenia is exhibiting abnormal mental processes.  Given the correlation between mind and brain, abnormal mental processes signifies abnormal brain processes, so I see no reason why causing the brain to start functioning normally wouldn't also cause the mind to start behaving normally as well.  Or if you disagree, why so?




I am sure that brain chemistry changes when we are in the throes of love. And there is a metaphor used, that can feel real. IS real--'love sickness' but it is not usually expected we go to the doctor about it is it? Eventually we get over it naturally, hopefully. But you see what these shrinks do, not really understand what the labels they hand out actually mean, is via treating the brain (and person) in a reductionist way, they attampt to 'correct' what they see is a disease, and this can cause harm. People can become chronic patients, addicted to a cocktail of toxic drugs. However, it is known that other who receive more intelligent understanding and support not only come through this experience without the need for medication, but can also feel spiritually enriched because of these experiences.

Quote:

Side-tangent:

In case you're interested I'd describe myself as a neutral monist: mind and matter are two perspectives of the same fundamental substance, two categories that describe the same thing.  Reductionist materialists fall into the trap of saying that mind is "just" matter, which ignores the very real subjective experience or qualia we all have, while New Age idealists fall into the opposite yet just as fallacious trap of saying that all matter is "just" mind, which ignores the very real physical world which doesn't just go away when we stop believing in it.  The only other alternatives are that both matter and mind exist, yet are different substances, and that matter is mind yet neither is reducible to the other.  The former is substance dualism a la Descartes, and is rife with problems, the least of which is explaining how the two substances interact and how exactly causality works between the two realms.  The latter is neutral monism, which is at least intuitively appealing from the standpoint of the psychedelic experiences we Shroomerites tend to share even if the bald statement of equivalence seems contradictory at face value.  But then again, so does the statement "All is One", yet many of us would agree that contradiction is true from certain perspectives of ego loss.  :psychsplit:




I agree with you that there is this 'game' going on where on one side of a coin is scientific determinism and the other new age/'all is illusion', but I am mot sure I would call myself a neutral monist, because i don't believe mind is a substance. I neither know what matter is or what mind is. I am happy with magical mystery---a kijnd of open 'I dunno' position

I feel that nature is alive, and sentient like I am and there can be a deepening relationship when this is opened to. I felt this from the very first LSD trips I had at 15.


Edited by zzripz (08/27/13 12:24 PM)


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: lolwut]
    #18764355 - 08/27/13 03:03 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

lolwut said:


I'm just wondering what your angle is here? I don't mean any offence but you have been saying mental illness doesn't exist here for a long time while there are many of us here who have had psychosis or bipolar or schizophrenia or ptsd or anxiety or paranoia and so on and who have experienced first hand just how much medication and associated therapies helped our recovery, some still using it to this day.

I'm wondering if you know anyone diagnosed with something in person, or if you yourself have been unfairly labelled, or something. Most of us have been open and answered questions so I'm wondering from what place your apparent prejudice against the mental health industry is coming from - scientific or something else.




When we say mental illness is a myth, we don't mean that the various psychological and psychosomatic states people can go through aren't real. By myth we mean the insistence by the psychiatric establishment that these labels they give people, and children, and what they feel, are biochemical diseases.
They try convince many people that what they have are chronic diseases that will need ongoing medication and that is a myth. they have no actual medical evidence to support their biochemical model---which is THE model pushed on everyone, especially those that don't have much money.


Edited by zzripz (08/27/13 03:04 PM)


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InvisiblePsilopsychosis
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Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: zzripz]
    #18764975 - 08/27/13 05:17 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Zzipz said:
I really understand your situation, and it is like this for many people. That is the oppression. The biopsychiatric model is THE model that is pushed on people, unless you have a lot of money. And then you have your family to contend with. Do you know about The Icarus Project ? This is an online community which is part of The Mad Pride Movement, and as well as here you could find community that will understand what your going through and offer support and contacts.







Wow. Thank you so much. I've been looking for something like this for months.


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Psychosis or something else? [Re: Psilopsychosis]
    #18765041 - 08/27/13 05:32 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Psilopsychosis said:
I see what you are saying but I wasn't putting some smaller manitou or spirit in between the self and that which is.
I honestly thought I(ego) was the self and was communicating with that which is. Said thought  was a delusion, I think now.

Quote:

Circastes said: I would take antipsychotics because schizophrenia is neurodegenerative and you'll get stupider and stupider as the days go by, while antipsychotics may restore some of the chemical imbalances slowing this process down.

Plus you're not even experiencing life with this illness in its unchecked form, you're just a vegie.





First of all, I am on antipsychotics. I am switching from ziprasidone to abilfy. Yesterday was first day 10mg abilify no ziprasidone. I am neither completely zombiefied nor completely med free. Limbo.

Second of all, it is not clearly understood why some people have their cognitive functions damaged by psychosis. It appears to be years or decades of untreated psychosis that causes that. There is no evidence that says people who go off their meds and are sane have cognitive damages. In countries with less acess to psychiatric drugs people recover faster from mental illness. Think about that man.

I do however know at least one guy who had his brain destroyed by psychosis. Real sad. Probably mid 40's and there isn't a whole lot going on upstairs.




How do you define psychosis?
something that doesn't fit into our culture

then all spirituality is psychosis... and all people who recognize their spiritual side must go to the 'nut house'


I believe in god and that his spirit will help if you pray
either directly or indirectly, don't believe in coincidences
being grateful is something that we must all be in order to be happy
appreciate what you have, learn from mistakes, do what makes you happy
grateful is realizing you are happy/appreciating what you have, which makes you even happier
learn from mistakes makes you happier because you don't make them again, but instead do what makes you happy

talking with voices though is where it sounds psychotic maybe..
we all have an inner voice though, but it isn't directly audible to me
it's an inner guide for me, if I do something wrong I get unhappy
or sometimes I get a feeling/inner voice I must do something to be happy (not live a stressing place i.e.)
or what I must do to stay healthy/happy etc., but it's more of a feeling than a voice

I believe god is in every living creature, the soul is the same
god is perfection/love, god is in nature too, nature reconnects you with your divine being

Sitting/walking in nature or meditating in nature I can only recommend to anyone... no words can describe, it has to be experienced

Don't do drugs if you are on medications though, not sure if you do
doing psychedelics + taking antipsychotics won't work obviously, but doing them with any other drug is probably bad


Edited by lessismore (08/27/13 05:38 PM)


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