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testko
Stranger

Registered: 08/22/13
Posts: 3
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
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Is inteligence genetic, or is it just a mindstate?
#18750227 - 08/24/13 05:09 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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While tripping last time, I was thinking whether intelligence has to do something with the physical construction of the brain, or is it just the orientation towards logic, problem solving, interest to debate ideas with other people, and after all, your feelings?
During the trip I had this insight I am maybe going to lose my intelligence and that actually happened to some extent. I have a Probability and Statistics exam on Monday and during the practice I have found out that types of tasks that seemed easy before became really hard, and also vice-versa in some cases.
It has been 4 days since my trip (0,5 mg LSD, 55kg). So, experienced trippers, please share your insights, I could use all of them.
(also forgive me for not being a native speaker and therefore having a little trouble expressing my idea)
Edited by testko (08/24/13 05:17 AM)
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Lord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms


Registered: 04/09/11
Posts: 3,071
Loc: infinite dimensional void
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
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Re: Is inteligence genetic, or is it just a mindstate? [Re: testko]
#18750261 - 08/24/13 05:46 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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By definition, intelligence is a measure of how fast your overall synapse communication is. There's no reason to put too much emphasis on this, rather put it on critical and analytical thinking. The latter has nothing to do with intelligence btw.
Quote:
During the trip I had this insight I am maybe going to lose my intelligence and that actually happened to some extent. I have a Probability and Statistics exam on Monday and during the practice I have found out that types of tasks that seemed easy before became really hard, and also vice-versa in some cases.
Purely psychological. Your brain is fine, have a look at the software running.
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drawde
Growerite

Registered: 10/18/09
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Re: Is inteligence genetic, or is it just a mindstate? [Re: Lord_McLovin]
#18750360 - 08/24/13 07:16 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lord_McLovin said: By definition, intelligence is a measure of how fast your overall synapse communication is.
Never heard of that being regarded as criteria for intelligence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence
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OldHam


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 1,566
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Re: Is inteligence genetic, or is it just a mindstate? [Re: drawde]
#18750434 - 08/24/13 08:05 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Intelligence, such as it is usually defined, as opposed to awareness, or sentience perhaps, definitely has something to do with the physical construction of the brain.
"If a lion could speak we would not understand it." ~ Wittgenstein.
Maybe rocks and trees are aware, just not in the same way we are. And a rock or a tree upside your head, hard enough, will alter your intelligence greatly.
-------------------- The Shallows, Chapter 7, Nicholas Carr
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KingKnowledge
Around



Registered: 03/30/13
Posts: 2,876
Loc: East Coast
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Re: Is inteligence genetic, or is it just a mindstate? [Re: OldHam]
#18750442 - 08/24/13 08:08 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well, I've heard that the definition of consciousness is the current synaptic transmissions and electronic currents going through your head. Since neuroplasticity exists, every single time we do something, it reinforces a specific synaptic path that grows stronger and makes us who we are. Intelligence must be tied in there somewhere!
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OldHam


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 1,566
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Re: Is inteligence genetic, or is it just a mindstate? [Re: KingKnowledge]
#18750448 - 08/24/13 08:11 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Seizures. Seizures make you smart. Also, hooking a car battery up to your head. That'll def increase synaptic activity. And, the speed of all that stuff and things.
-------------------- The Shallows, Chapter 7, Nicholas Carr
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Lord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms


Registered: 04/09/11
Posts: 3,071
Loc: infinite dimensional void
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
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Re: Is inteligence genetic, or is it just a mindstate? [Re: drawde]
#18750777 - 08/24/13 09:48 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
drawde said:
Quote:
Lord_McLovin said: By definition, intelligence is a measure of how fast your overall synapse communication is.
Never heard of that being regarded as criteria for intelligence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence
Don't know where I picked that up, but I have regarded it as a handy definition ever since.
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OldHam


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 1,566
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Re: Is inteligence genetic, or is it just a mindstate? [Re: Lord_McLovin]
#18750804 - 08/24/13 09:56 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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-------------------- The Shallows, Chapter 7, Nicholas Carr
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Lord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms


Registered: 04/09/11
Posts: 3,071
Loc: infinite dimensional void
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
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Re: Is inteligence genetic, or is it just a mindstate? [Re: OldHam]
#18750913 - 08/24/13 10:29 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Caboose
Clandestine Chemist



Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 62
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: Is inteligence genetic, or is it just a mindstate? [Re: testko]
#18751094 - 08/24/13 11:23 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
testko said: While tripping last time, I was thinking whether intelligence has to do something with the physical construction of the brain, or is it just the orientation towards logic, problem solving, interest to debate ideas with other people, and after all, your feelings?
During the trip I had this insight I am maybe going to lose my intelligence and that actually happened to some extent. I have a Probability and Statistics exam on Monday and during the practice I have found out that types of tasks that seemed easy before became really hard, and also vice-versa in some cases.
It has been 4 days since my trip (0,5 mg LSD, 55kg). So, experienced trippers, please share your insights, I could use all of them.
(also forgive me for not being a native speaker and therefore having a little trouble expressing my idea)
I have personal experience with what you are referring to. The way I see it, it is more of a switch in main process function in the hemispheres of your brain. While you were primarily left-brained, causing an easier time when rationalizing numbers, psychedelic use may have popped you over to the right hemisphere, making you more into a conceptual thinker.
It isn't fun at first, but when you start debating with yourself philosophically and understanding the universe better, you may like it.
I thought I was losing intelligence as well, but you just have to look from a different perspective...*Inserts mushroom into mouth*
-------------------- Load universe into cannon. Aim at brain. Fire.
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Lord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms


Registered: 04/09/11
Posts: 3,071
Loc: infinite dimensional void
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
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Re: Is inteligence genetic, or is it just a mindstate? [Re: Caboose]
#18752115 - 08/24/13 03:47 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Caboose said: It isn't fun at first, but when you start debating with yourself philosophically and understanding the universe better, you may like it.
I thought I was losing intelligence as well, but you just have to look from a different perspective...*Inserts mushroom into mouth*
Lol, that's what I've been doing my entire life. In elementary school people thought I was stupid, but now I'm in my Master's in theoretical physics in one of the most renowned universities for the topic on the globe. That's how it goes I guess. 
I'm really btw.
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OldHam


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 1,566
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Re: Is inteligence genetic, or is it just a mindstate? [Re: Lord_McLovin]
#18752150 - 08/24/13 03:55 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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If I was 'in my Master's in theoretical physics in one of the most renowned universities for the topic on the globe' I sincerely doubt I'd be piddling around here. No offense, to you or anyone here. It's the truth though...
-------------------- The Shallows, Chapter 7, Nicholas Carr
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Caboose
Clandestine Chemist



Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 62
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: Is inteligence genetic, or is it just a mindstate? [Re: OldHam]
#18752170 - 08/24/13 04:00 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Some of the most intelligent people on the planet use psychedelics, so why would he not? Alternate viewpoints are essential in theoretical physics, so why not get it from other psychedelic users?
-------------------- Load universe into cannon. Aim at brain. Fire.
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Lord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms



Registered: 04/09/11
Posts: 3,071
Loc: infinite dimensional void
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
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Re: Is inteligence genetic, or is it just a mindstate? [Re: OldHam]
#18752471 - 08/24/13 05:39 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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This is the proof I just wrote for an useful identity for Hamiltonian vector fields in symplectic geometry, if you don't believe me. f,g and h are at least C 2 functions on a symplectic manifold.
X_{\left[ f,g \right]} \llcorner \omega (X_h)= \left[ \left[ f,g \right], h \right] = \left[ g , \left[ h,f \right] \right] + \left[ f , \left[ g,h \right] \right] = X_g \left( X_h (f) \right) + X_f \left( X_g (h) \right) = X_f \left( X_g (h) \right) - X_g \left( X_h (f) \right) = \left[ X_f , X_g \right](h)
You might have noticed that my sign convention for Hamiltonian vector fields is given by
X \llcorner \omega + d f = 0
, which is standard for physicists. The square brackets are the Poisson bracked induced by the symplectic structure and the commutator of vector fields, obviously.
You just have to use the Jacobi identity, which is equivalent to the closedness of the symplectic structure btw.

I'll smoke a hash joint for you, pal.
PS: You have to put the formulas in here to see them.
Edited by Lord_McLovin (08/24/13 06:00 PM)
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qman
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Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Is inteligence genetic, or is it just a mindstate? [Re: OldHam]
#18752503 - 08/24/13 05:49 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
OldHam said: If I was 'in my Master's in theoretical physics in one of the most renowned universities for the topic on the globe' I sincerely doubt I'd be piddling around here. No offense, to you or anyone here. It's the truth though...
There are some very smart cats on this site, being naive of this fact makes you look a little foolish, try to stay open minded.
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Lord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms



Registered: 04/09/11
Posts: 3,071
Loc: infinite dimensional void
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
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Re: Is inteligence genetic, or is it just a mindstate? [Re: Lord_McLovin]
#18752532 - 08/24/13 05:58 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Oh, sorry for , OP.
I don't think I'm extraordinarily intelligent if you use the definition I gave, I just got into philosophy and analytical thinking in an early age. Analytical thinking, creativeness and enjoyment of whatever you do will get you anywhere in life. That's what I learned and everyone of us has this.
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Into The Woods
Quarantine King


Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 10,864
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Re: Is inteligence genetic, or is it just a mindstate? [Re: Lord_McLovin]
#18753320 - 08/24/13 10:06 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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It made me chuckle, how McLovin showed off his intellect but remained humble and modest with his next comment. 
As for the question in the topic title, I would think both factors weigh in.
Quote:
Caboose said:
Quote:
testko said: While tripping last time, I was thinking whether intelligence has to do something with the physical construction of the brain, or is it just the orientation towards logic, problem solving, interest to debate ideas with other people, and after all, your feelings?
During the trip I had this insight I am maybe going to lose my intelligence and that actually happened to some extent. I have a Probability and Statistics exam on Monday and during the practice I have found out that types of tasks that seemed easy before became really hard, and also vice-versa in some cases.
It has been 4 days since my trip (0,5 mg LSD, 55kg). So, experienced trippers, please share your insights, I could use all of them.
(also forgive me for not being a native speaker and therefore having a little trouble expressing my idea)
I have personal experience with what you are referring to. The way I see it, it is more of a switch in main process function in the hemispheres of your brain. While you were primarily left-brained, causing an easier time when rationalizing numbers, psychedelic use may have popped you over to the right hemisphere, making you more into a conceptual thinker.
It isn't fun at first, but when you start debating with yourself philosophically and understanding the universe better, you may like it.
I thought I was losing intelligence as well, but you just have to look from a different perspective...*Inserts mushroom into mouth*
Quote:
Lord_McLovin said:
Quote:
Caboose said: It isn't fun at first, but when you start debating with yourself philosophically and understanding the universe better, you may like it.
I thought I was losing intelligence as well, but you just have to look from a different perspective...*Inserts mushroom into mouth*
Lol, that's what I've been doing my entire life. In elementary school people thought I was stupid, but now I'm in my Master's in theoretical physics in one of the most renowned universities for the topic on the globe. That's how it goes I guess. 
I've wondered about this myself in the past and landed on the same conclusion, so that makes four of us, OP. We're not losing intelligence, it's being channelled differently. 
I wonder how common this is with people who use psychedelics.
Edited by Into The Woods (08/24/13 10:07 PM)
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zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
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Re: Is inteligence genetic, or is it just a mindstate? [Re: testko]
#18754049 - 08/25/13 04:14 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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look out your window now--unless your already outside in natural surroundings. THAT is Intelligence. Intelligence which at its core is love is the very source of you and all reality. it is not something in-you-head, or my head. it is both inner and outer.
There is this curious version of 'intelligence' be a western modern mindset which seems to think it has to do with IQ tests, and stats, and all that so-called 'rationality'. And they often, people who think of themselves as superior in intelligence in such areas are THE most vile mechanical inhuman unintelligent morons that ever disgraced the living universe!
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OldHam


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 1,566
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Re: Is inteligence genetic, or is it just a mindstate? [Re: Lord_McLovin]
#18754109 - 08/25/13 05:26 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lord_McLovin said: This is the proof I just wrote for an useful identity for Hamiltonian vector fields in symplectic geometry, if you don't believe me. f,g and h are at least C 2 functions on a symplectic manifold.
X_{\left[ f,g \right]} \llcorner \omega (X_h)= \left[ \left[ f,g \right], h \right] = \left[ g , \left[ h,f \right] \right] + \left[ f , \left[ g,h \right] \right] = X_g \left( X_h (f) \right) + X_f \left( X_g (h) \right) = X_f \left( X_g (h) \right) - X_g \left( X_h (f) \right) = \left[ X_f , X_g \right](h)
You might have noticed that my sign convention for Hamiltonian vector fields is given by
X \llcorner \omega + d f = 0
, which is standard for physicists. The square brackets are the Poisson bracked induced by the symplectic structure and the commutator of vector fields, obviously.
You just have to use the Jacobi identity, which is equivalent to the closedness of the symplectic structure btw.

I'll smoke a hash joint for you, pal.
PS: You have to put the formulas in here to see them.
Again, don't you have anything better to do than brag online?  Not shiting on this site, in general, or psychedelics in particular.
Just the frivolous, circular, useless nature of internet threads as a whole. Responding to me, for instance...
Always heard higher studies consumed one's life. Guess you're just genius enough to be an exception.
-------------------- The Shallows, Chapter 7, Nicholas Carr
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,761
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Re: Is inteligence genetic, or is it just a mindstate? [Re: OldHam] 1
#18754192 - 08/25/13 06:34 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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curiosity, retention, and synthesis.
it's a combination of these
curiosity is related to an awakened state of body, versus a sleepy one - it is negatively related to obsessive or automatic behavior which can override curiosity and is a base mental state (i.e. low serotonin, low dopamine) it can be genetic but is mostly behavioral, habit.
retention is related to health and the ability of the brain to make new connections (as opposed to senility or altzheimers which is a physical condition that does not support neuron growth) - it is negatively affected by extreme mental states (i.e. too much serotonin or too much dopanime) in that the mind in such states is overcome and will not make new connections since the chaos only connects to more chaos. (i.e. no significant engram.)
synthesis is related to mindstate, and even requires some elevated mental state, since it is technically the mixing and adjustment of sustained mental images which is hard to do with low serotonin and low dopamine.
as for genetic - what can be genetic is the brain facility to easily switch in and out of mental states that are more or less synthetic and more or less retentive.
Culturally we do not have much support for this, so many with the genetics for genius, suffer by no training for their mental fluidity, and often end up with depression, psychosis, etc.
behavioral contributions to intelligence is when you are lucky to have intelligent family members and you can learn the pace and rhythm of being brilliant, and recouperating (which is somewhat like being a good psychedelic drug tripper - but no drugs, and not really any hallucination)
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