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motts
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Registered: 02/26/03
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Fruiting Advice
#18750230 - 08/24/13 05:11 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hello All,
My cakes have been in my fruiting chamber for about 3 days now. The perlite doesn't seem as damp as it should be anymore? Regardless...the temps have stayed between 70-75F with good air flow. I have been giving the cakes daylight but nothing else, following natural lighting patterns of the day.
I have been misting the sides once or twice a day just to keep some moisture/humidity in the chamber. I woke up this morning to find some what looks like blue/greenish color on one of the cakes that is pretty prominent. The cake next to it looks like it might be getting some of this color on top, the other cakes are fine.
Here are some photos, recommendations please? Should I pitch them? Does everything look fine? Thank you.

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word stunnas;
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Jimmyhunter1000
That guy.



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Re: Fruiting Advice [Re: motts]
#18750636 - 08/24/13 09:07 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Looks to me like its starting to bruise. Just keep an eye on it for now.
-------------------- There isn't a trail too long or too wide.
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motts
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Registered: 02/26/03
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Here is another photo after 13 hours, should I be concerned? Thank you.
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word stunnas;
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motts
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Re: Fruiting Advice [Re: motts]
#18756835 - 08/25/13 08:09 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Advise anyone?
I have been misting/fanning using the Shotgun chamber for almost 7 days now. There are what looks like odd white blobs growing from the cakes, but no actual caps.
I have 5 other jars that I will be putting in the chamber. PE's take a while, maybe this was a poor choice for my first go! It has taught me a lot, but I want to make sure it is safe to put the other cakes in, as to not get contamination!
Thank you.
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word stunnas;
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San
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Re: Fruiting Advice [Re: motts]
#18757092 - 08/25/13 09:06 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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PE is rather blobby. I don't think there's sufficient evidence to suggest it's contaminated.
I've had trouble keeping my perlite moist in the past as well. It seems really apt to dry up. Don't know what to tell you besides mist it. If it is really obviously dry you can try and take the cakes out for a half hour while you rehydrate it under the tap and let the excess run off. The drawback is that you'll be handling the cakes more.
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Actually not everyone was a noob. Being a noob is a very new phenomenon. Many people, the great majority in fact, were simply "beginners", "novices" or "new to mushroom growing". Being a "noob" is reserved, and in fact created specifically for and by, the newer, much more lame generations coming about. -Shpongle1
Edited by San (08/25/13 09:07 PM)
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Casual Cultivator
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Re: Fruiting Advice [Re: San]
#18767629 - 08/28/13 08:50 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Just looks like you are handling it which I don't recommend, so it is going to bruise. That or you are misting it too hard. Just watch it close.
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hankstymcbankerson

Registered: 07/24/13
Posts: 180
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<warning, un-experienced advice coming from lurking and reading tons of threads>
I've read many times that you should be misting the actualy cake(s), not the walls of the SGFC. The misting is to apply a light layer of moisture to the cake, so that it can evaporate off the cake and trigger pinning.
The wet perlite is what provides the humidity (the misting probably adds to this while misting the cakes)
Also, have also read a lot about PE, and it seems fairly notorious for blobby first flushes, and, again, from what Ive read, appears to produce MUCH better in a tub rather than a cake, where the rest of the Cube family does pretty well on cakes.
Pics of the blobs will help others reassure you, or break bad news to you.
Also a good pic of the whole SGFC just so others can rule that out as an issue, or advise how to correct.
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MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)



Registered: 04/27/01
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Don't spray cakes directly ...
How thick is your perlite layer ? I usually did a 10cm thick perlite layer, water at 5cm level with small heater submerged at the very bottom. You can skip the heater (although it really helps increasing condensation levels) but the thicker the perlite layer, more water can be put and you can reach higher Rh levels.
As for contams go. I don't think they are contaminated. If growth was halted, please check all environmental parameter as for the pinning phase goes.
Good luck !
cheers, maia
-------------------- Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
 Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy. Voltaire
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motts
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Re: Fruiting Advice [Re: MAIA]
#18802704 - 09/05/13 10:17 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hello All,
Thank you for taking the time to respond. Grateful to have a community of people helping others in this wonderful hobby.
I have been busy and hadn't checked the thread until this morning, so thank you for all the responses and advice.
Here is an update, I took some more photos of the actual chamber, and then only one cake because at this point they pretty much all look the same. There are three cakes in there that really had NO growth other than a bunch of white mycelium growing from them after almost a week an a half and slight brusing so I re dunked and rolled. They have been in there 3 days now. The other four cakes have been in there almost a week. The photo of the cake is one of those four cakes, and like a said all the cakes look similar. As you can see lot of healthy growth, no pins.
I am fanning at least 3-4 times a day when I do not work, and about twice a day on work days. The humidity and temperature seem fine from what I can gauge on sense. But, alas no caps. I know PE's have a tough time on cakes, I should have done more research, but alas I did not. It can be done, but this is a very difficult and patient oriented strain, and I can see now why after going at it now for almost two months essentially.
Anyways, any advice would be great and again, thank you for taking the time to respond! God bless ya'll.

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word stunnas;
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MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)



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Re: Fruiting Advice [Re: motts]
#18805169 - 09/05/13 09:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think you're almost there. Give it 3 or 4 days.
-------------------- Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
 Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy. Voltaire
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hankstymcbankerson

Registered: 07/24/13
Posts: 180
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Re: Fruiting Advice [Re: MAIA]
#18811322 - 09/07/13 11:56 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I would trim the foil a bit too. When there is a lot of excess it 1) blocks some of the airflow from the bottom which is bringing in your humidity and 2) lets water puddle up on the foil.
If you holes are 2" apart, then it looks like you only have about 2" of perlite in your SGFC. I'd add another 2"-3" when you pull the cakes out to dunk for the 2nd flush, or else, from what Ive read, it might not be enough to hold the humidity for long enough to harvest a couple flushes.
Also do you usually have the lid on your SGFC? If so, do the lid and bottom have holes as well? all 6 sides?
Those are the only suggestions I can make, and agree with MAIA, give it a few more days of misting, then fanning so the moisture on the cakes evaporates.
Good Luck!
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
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Needs air. Starting to get Myc that is still growing looking for nute.
With a good, amount of FAE you can trigger pinning. Humidity is important, but not as important until fruiting the cakes.
HastyTadpole is right, and I don't recommend putting a heater at the bottom of your SGFC>
If it ain't in the tech, don't use it.
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motts
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Re: Fruiting Advice [Re: Sockadin]
#18825107 - 09/10/13 08:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hello All,
My buddy and I placed another bag of perlite in the chamber. We also trimmed the foil around the cakes. It has been about 3-4 days since these last couple posts.
I am still fanning and doing light misting. I am wondering at this point if this is a lost cause? Everything smells and looks good, the mycelium is growing off the cakes, but alas no pins.
Thoughts?
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word stunnas;
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MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)



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Re: Fruiting Advice [Re: motts]
#18825935 - 09/10/13 11:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Try covering half of the holes on that tub.
It's not about the quantity of perlite you put inside. If you add no more water, the RH will actually drop with that excess of perlite. Add water until it reaches half of the perlite level and forget about misting. You should aim for steady RH levels inside that terrarium.
Try getting a good hygrometer, perform regular reads and try to match growth params for pinning phase.
-------------------- Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
 Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy. Voltaire
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
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Re: Fruiting Advice [Re: MAIA]
#18828242 - 09/11/13 03:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
MAIA said: Try covering half of the holes on that tub.
It's not about the quantity of perlite you put inside. If you add no more water, the RH will actually drop with that excess of perlite. Add water until it reaches half of the perlite level and forget about misting. You should aim for steady RH levels inside that terrarium.
Try getting a good hygrometer, perform regular reads and try to match growth params for pinning phase.
It doesn't matter how much water there is. Water can only evaporate on the surface into the air. More perlite means a larger surface area for the water to evaporate from. If you were to fill it with water so the perlite's wet surface is now exposed water instead of air, which is impossible in a SGFC anyway since there are holes in the bottom, less water evaporates and the RH drops even lower.
Taping the holes on a SGFC, especially the ones bottom, can also lower the RH. The air needs to be able to flow through the perlite for the perlite to humidify it.
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MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)



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Re: Fruiting Advice [Re: Kizzle]
#18828974 - 09/11/13 05:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The air needs to be able to flow through the perlite for the perlite to humidify it.
Then add a bubbler. But for that to be effective, you need water at the bottom. Like I said, add water until it reaches HALF of the perlite level. You still have the other half of perlite for evaporation purposes with a permanent source of water at the very bottom. That's a no hassle and steady Rh achiever. On the other hand, there's only that much water, perlite can absorve and if you don't reach a saturation point, adding more perlite is just ineffective. Last but not least, forget what I've just said if that tub has holes at the very bottom.
Look, I don't know if that's a new idea for a terrarium or maybe it's because I'm a bit outdated. I really don't know. But looking at the principle of that terrarium, I've got 3 issues: 1) It's a pain in ass to keep a steady RH level due to those holes. 2) Why keep misting if the perlite is there to do the humidity job. 3) Those unfiltered holes expose directly the cakes to contaminants. I guess it's ok for casings but it defeats the purpose when it comes to cakes.
Btw, got a link to this terrarium white papers ?
Thanks !
-------------------- Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
 Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy. Voltaire
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MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)



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Re: Fruiting Advice [Re: Kizzle]
#18829167 - 09/11/13 06:25 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The air needs to be able to flow through the perlite for the perlite to humidify it.
Forgot one thing about this issue. The evaporation of water is an endothermic process.
If I could understand how this terrarium was built, I could calculate most psychrometric variables and tell you how this particular model works. Relative humidity just by itself doesn't tell you the whole picture. Humidity ratio, mixture enthalpy, and dew point temperature are important as well.
-------------------- Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
 Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy. Voltaire
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Kizzle
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Re: Fruiting Advice [Re: MAIA]
#18833197 - 09/12/13 04:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
1) It's a pain in ass to keep a steady RH level due to those holes.
http://www.mushroomvideos.com/Terrarium-Tek Here's the original Tek for a SGFC, including theory of operation section. The RH is actually very stable and should stay around 95%.
Quote:
2) Why keep misting if the perlite is there to do the humidity job.
That is one downsides but it only needs to be misting a couple times a day ideally. You can do less than that when necessary. This is as much to replenish the moisture lost from the substrate as it is the perlite. Significant moisture loss is going to happen in any terrarium with the ideal amount of fresh air exchange, regardless of the humidity since it's never going to be 100%. That's not necessarily a bad thing either, the biggest pinning trigger is moisture evaporating off the surface of the substrate.
Quote:
3) Those unfiltered holes expose directly the cakes to contaminants.
There is no sterile FC. The cakes will always be exposed to contaminants and for the most part it doesn't matter because they're fully colonized. However in terms of how many mold spores are accumulating on the surface you're going to have less with the holes. Lets say you had no air holes for a second, after to you close the lid every mold spore that got in there when you opened the lid is going settle onto the surface from the still air. Air currents keep the spores airborne where they can't possibly germinate.
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MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)



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Re: Fruiting Advice [Re: Kizzle]
#18834238 - 09/12/13 08:33 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks for link Kizzle. I'll give it a read !
-------------------- Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
 Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy. Voltaire
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motts
Stranger


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Re: Fruiting Advice [Re: MAIA]
#18851303 - 09/16/13 09:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hello All,
Again thank you for taking the time to respond! It has been a blast, and very helpful! So, it started to get a little technical with all the RH talk, and so forth, but I am always up to learn!
I did take some advice and tape the side of the chamber, as well as the lid. I also bought a hygrometer, nothing expensive, but I just wanted to make sure my levels were correct.
After about 4-5 days now, the cakes honestly look the same, and smell the same. There is a little more mycelium growth but that's it. I have been fanning, but I am not sure what else to do.
Today, I misted some more, and placed my lava lamp light in there for about 8 hours, as I honestly never had light on it before, I usually just let them be in the closet. I didn't do much reading on light in terms of PE's on cakes, but figured mushrooms like dark, damp environments. There seems to be so many mixed thoughts!
Anyways, here are two photos of the chamber now, and I also took a picture of the hygrometer at 71F with 90% humidity. At this point if nothing happens in the next week I might just chalk it up as a learning experience and try B+ Strain. Not sure what else to do, because I am starting to get a little frustrated and want some yield!
Any thoughts and advice is much appreciated, thank you!


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word stunnas;
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MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)



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Re: Fruiting Advice [Re: motts]
#18851437 - 09/16/13 09:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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You could try a cold shock to help inducing pinning.
-------------------- Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
 Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy. Voltaire
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mary5481
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Re: Fruiting Advice [Re: motts]
#18851536 - 09/16/13 09:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I always put a little light on mine, even just some daylight and then leave them in the dark at night. I figure it's what nature would do anyway. So is this the correct way to do It? I know someone who uses grow lights but I don't think it's necessary. I've never tried to fruit in complete darkness.
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Kizzle
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Re: Fruiting Advice [Re: mary5481]
#18852082 - 09/17/13 12:34 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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 The holes don't do much good if you put tape over them.
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motts
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Re: Fruiting Advice [Re: Kizzle]
#18852378 - 09/17/13 04:43 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I can start using that lamp during the day.
I only taped the lid and one side per recommendation of a forum member to help with RH levels. I can take it off if not necessary, trying anything since its been three weeks in that chamber with no fruits.
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word stunnas;
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Kizzle
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Re: Fruiting Advice [Re: motts]
#18853333 - 09/17/13 12:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Keep in mind fresh air is a pinning trigger, not humidity. Although taping the holes is a SGFC can actually reduce both.
I doubt they've dried out since you dunked them again but you could try lifting one up anyone anyway to see how heavy it is. A dried out cake will feel light since it will have lost all that water weight.
You could also check to see if they have any odors other than the normal mushroom smell which might indicate contamination.
IMO those are still the 2 most likely reasons your cakes haven't started pinning after this long. Assuming you inoculated them with spores or an unisolated culture made from spores it's extremely unlikely genetics are responsible for them not fruiting.
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