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Offlineshroom239
aka K.T.
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Registered: 08/12/09
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Last seen: 8 years, 21 days
WBS keeps failing, what am I doing wrong?
    #18748193 - 08/23/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

To briefly describe my issue, I started a successful grow with some syringes I got from a site sponsor a couple months back, using some winter rye and had no issues with contam at all. I switched to WBS as a more cost effective and readily available resource and have been striking out with either a contam or a "no grow" situation.

The first attempt with the WBS I made two two grain masters by rinsing and then soaking the WBS with some gypsum for 18hrs. I then gave it a quick heating on the stove before draining the water. I followed up with a 90min pressure session at 15psi and allowed to cool overnight. The only noticeable flaw I saw was that an abundance of seeds had popped open and I think that can be contributed to the contam of the one jar. But I don't feel like it could prevent growth on the other, but I am unsure.

The second attempt at two grain masters, with two different syringes, have yielded the same result thus far. The difference in attempt two was that I rinsed and then soaked the WBS with some gypsum for 36hrs and then drained the water, without heating. I then followed up with a 90min pressure session at 15psi and allowed to cool overnight. This time the grains were perfect all through so problem solved, right? No, I just removed the one jar from incubation and the other one still shows no sign of growth after almost 3 weeks.

I recently made some LC, with the same syringes, and am seeing strong growth in the one and slow but steady in the other five I started last weekend. I mention this because I would like to use the LC to knock up some jars but am scared to use the WBS due to the results I have been having. Is there something I am doing wrong with my WBS prep? Is it maybe possible I have a bag of WBS that is not usable for what I am doing? I'm about to go back to my rye but if there is an obvious mistake I am making I would like to still use the WBS since it is here.


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Disclaimer: Any picture or statement I post here is from research I do on my free time, I do not actually partake in this hobby.


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OfflineTasteTheSound
Cankle Lover


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 390
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
Re: WBS keeps failing, what am I doing wrong? [Re: shroom239]
    #18748208 - 08/23/13 05:30 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

What type of bird seed did you use?  Some have fungicide in them.  My first try at it was unsuccessful so I changed seed brand it it worked great.  I used the bird ration from Walmart.  Its a white bag with a cardinal on it.

Also sounds like you cooked to long.  I didn't use gypsum just soaked 24 hours then brought to almost a boil on stove and then let it cool off.  From there strained it well and pc'd.

Worked for me anyway.


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: WBS keeps failing, what am I doing wrong? [Re: TasteTheSound]
    #18748217 - 08/23/13 05:36 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Been unlucky too

Mine did boil to large clumps
and no colonization

Have tried several times, no luck with WBS yet
last time was my own mistake, bad sterilization / bad syringe + bad sterile technique, contam in all

but this time pf jars colonized , just not WBS jars
they're like stone clumps, very hard clumps (although they break in half a bit if I shake hard) , and no colonization at all

maybe PCed for too long, 78mins @ 12psi

(and I did remember to shake all jars violently while still very hot - and also after innoc, they still clumped together)

maybe they touched the water , not sure yet... small PC :frown:
but did lay them on cloths etc... maybe there was too much water in PC so water boiled the contents, it's only the steam that is supposed to sterilize after all


Edited by lessismore (08/23/13 05:46 PM)


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Offlineshroom239
aka K.T.
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Re: WBS keeps failing, what am I doing wrong? [Re: TasteTheSound]
    #18748234 - 08/23/13 05:40 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

@ TasteTheSound
This is the seed I am using for my jars.

@mio
I'm sorry to hear that, but at the same time glad I'm not the only one not getting desired results from the WBS :cheers:


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Disclaimer: Any picture or statement I post here is from research I do on my free time, I do not actually partake in this hobby.


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OfflineTasteTheSound
Cankle Lover


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 390
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
Re: WBS keeps failing, what am I doing wrong? [Re: shroom239]
    #18748249 - 08/23/13 05:45 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

shroom239 said:
@ TasteTheSound
This is the seed I am using for my jars.

@mio
I'm sorry to hear that, but at the same time glad I'm not the only one not getting desired results from the WBS :cheers:





This is what i used.

It doesn't neccasarily say it on bag... i read somewhere on the forums that the more expensive bird seed can have it in it.  Doesnt mean its the cause either way. Maybe you got a bad syringe?


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OfflineMaJiK_420
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Registered: 06/30/08
Posts: 447
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Re: WBS keeps failing, what am I doing wrong? [Re: TasteTheSound]
    #18748356 - 08/23/13 06:16 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I use Fred Myer(store brand, I think fred myer is Kroger or something in the states). It has red/white millet and sunflower seeds.

I rinse my birdseed 5-6 times till the water is completely clear, then I soak anywhere from 4 hours to 36 hours, I have even gone close to 48 hours just because I was busy and forgot. Seed still worked fine.

Sometimes I soak in diluted spent coffee. Works fine.

I never boil or heat my wbs after soaking, I just set on a towel or big piece of cardboard in front of a fan for 30-60 mins until it is somewhat dry. I like it when it still has a wet feel, but doesn't leave any on your hand. I think the guideline is to use a paper towel and if the towel gets wet, its still too wet.

I PC for 90 mins in Qt jars. Cool down all day or over night. Shake Jars when taken out to break up any clumps and redistribute hydration. Jars cool to the touch then I noc or g2g.

I used to shake after inoculation but then I read it is better not to, I think one shake somewhere after 30%. I don't even shake anymore unless the colonization is really lopsided.

Works most the time. I would also suggest reading Franks WBS prep is you haven't already.


Sometimes duds happen IME, lots of factors that could get botched when stoned, inexperienced or whatever. Fungicide in your WBS seems like a plausible explanation though. Shame your wasting through syringes though.

If it was fungicide though, would a contam even be able to colonize it? I guess it could still get bacterial infections...


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OfflineTasteTheSound
Cankle Lover


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 390
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
Re: WBS keeps failing, what am I doing wrong? [Re: MaJiK_420]
    #18748464 - 08/23/13 06:51 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

He said contam or no grow.... so its logical to think that nothing was growing and contains set in.

I forgot that part of rinsing it... I followed doc ts wbs tec I think ... its in the mushroom growing section.

When heating it up you don't want the seeds to pop open.  You just want it to get close to boiling to make sure they get as saturated as possible.


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Offlineshroom239
aka K.T.
Male


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Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 550
Last seen: 8 years, 21 days
Re: WBS keeps failing, what am I doing wrong? [Re: shroom239]
    #18748831 - 08/23/13 08:18 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Sorry had to take the lady out for some food...

@TasteTheSound
I do not think it is the syringes because I have used them all before with the rye grain and am also having success with the LC. I will hit up my local Walmart and give that a try, but in the mean time I will probably use the rest of my rye for the LC. I made the mistake of boiling to long the first time that's why I tried the longer soak the second time around. Do you notice significant expansion of the grain when you soak?

@MaJiK_420
I did rinse the grain until the water ran clear in my strainer. Do you notice any significant expansion of the seed after your soak? I thought I did, but if it actually did, it was very minor. I will check out Franks WBS prep and see if any of my methods match up with what it is saying. I was thinking that WBS wouldn't be a far cry from the rye grain, that I usually use with 98% success, but it proving to be more difficult then its worth. Which leads me to believe that it quite possibly could be some sort of fungicide, and that I should stick to what works for me :shrug:


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Disclaimer: Any picture or statement I post here is from research I do on my free time, I do not actually partake in this hobby.


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InvisibleBilge
longtimenoC


Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,858
Loc: USA
Re: WBS keeps failing, what am I doing wrong? [Re: shroom239]
    #18748964 - 08/23/13 08:48 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I have seen success using Kroger/King Soopers/cheap-ass WBS. Soaked in water for 24 hours, then drained in a colander for at least 30 minutes. Then PC as usual. I haven't used gypsum and rye grass is a current preference.

Also: I DO pick out the floaters and there is no corn in the cheap WBS.

How do you prep your jars/containers before PC? Is there a vector for failure at innoc time?? Hope I can help.


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Offlineshroom239
aka K.T.
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 550
Last seen: 8 years, 21 days
Re: WBS keeps failing, what am I doing wrong? [Re: Bilge]
    #18749093 - 08/23/13 09:20 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

@Bilge
I prep the jars the same as I do with the rye seed. I make sure they are clean and if they have been previously used I would have already bleached and pressure cooked them before storage for another grow. I use a self healing injection port and have tyvek on the top and bottom of my lids affixed with RTV, and those are replaced as needed.


--------------------
Disclaimer: Any picture or statement I post here is from research I do on my free time, I do not actually partake in this hobby.


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