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Offlineflipsidetrue
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Preparing Wbs and Coir Substrate together all in one
    #18747292 - 08/23/13 01:05 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Alright so i was thinking about doing it all in one step.

instead of having to pressure cook wbs in mason jars i was thinking about just mixing the wbs and the coir substrate together in an oven bag then pressure cooking them, then knock them up!
Like an all in one bag deal! pressure cook the bag then knock it up BAM! no more mason jars and makes things a bit quicker! just soak the WBS and the Coir then put it all in one bag!

what do you guys think? Im sure someone has done this before!!!


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Edited by flipsidetrue (08/23/13 01:08 PM)


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Invisiblegizmo1
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Re: Preparing Wbs and Coir Substrate together all in one [Re: flipsidetrue]
    #18747343 - 08/23/13 01:18 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

If you where gonna try to do it that way you might as well leave out the wbs. Also I wouldnt try to do more than a quart of substrate because it will end up stalling.


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Offlineflipsidetrue
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Re: Preparing Wbs and Coir Substrate together all in one [Re: gizmo1]
    #18747354 - 08/23/13 01:22 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

so leave out the bird seed and just use coir and knock the bag up


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Re: Preparing Wbs and Coir Substrate together all in one [Re: flipsidetrue]
    #18747369 - 08/23/13 01:28 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

OP, I think you need to do more research and figure out what Spawn is.


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Offlineflipsidetrue
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Re: Preparing Wbs and Coir Substrate together all in one [Re: Juiceh]
    #18747380 - 08/23/13 01:32 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Juiceh said:
OP, I think you need to do more research and figure out what Spawn is.





i know what spawn is, i was saying the mycelium would still colonize and wouldnt it just grow on the wbs and spread onto the coir so you wouldnt really havta to take some spawn and mix it


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Re: Preparing Wbs and Coir Substrate together all in one [Re: flipsidetrue]
    #18747381 - 08/23/13 01:32 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

If you would like lol I would suggest going through the full process or else just using BRF cakes or bags.
I'm sure you could get that method to work but my guess is extremely long colonization times and stalling. Which equals wasted materials.
Is there a particular reason you want to do it all in one or are you just trying to make it easier on yourself?


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Edited by gizmo1 (08/23/13 01:35 PM)


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Offlineflipsidetrue
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Re: Preparing Wbs and Coir Substrate together all in one [Re: gizmo1]
    #18747397 - 08/23/13 01:36 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

mainly to just make it easier. how nice would it be to just pressure cook one bag and then knock it up! i mean of course soaking your wbs then pressure cooking it, then soaking your coir then pressure cooking that, then mixing your spawn and your coir together is nice and all, gives ya something to do and keep you busy.


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Re: Preparing Wbs and Coir Substrate together all in one [Re: flipsidetrue]
    #18747425 - 08/23/13 01:43 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Well the point of the spawn is to let the mycellium colonize a large amount of substrate quick enough without letting contaminates get a foothold on the substrate. If you where going to knock up the substrate bags by themselves it would be pointless to include wbs grains.
In the end it would be a lot more painless and quick to just do it the right way it would save you time and therefore be much more efficient .


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Offlineflipsidetrue
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Re: Preparing Wbs and Coir Substrate together all in one [Re: gizmo1]
    #18747432 - 08/23/13 01:45 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

yea your right, whats with my big ideas?


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Re: Preparing Wbs and Coir Substrate together all in one [Re: gizmo1]
    #18747446 - 08/23/13 01:50 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

If you want to do it all in one pf tek is basically what you are looking for. It includes all the steps in one basically but on a smaller scale and according to RR is much more efficient than bulk.


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Offlineflipsidetrue
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Re: Preparing Wbs and Coir Substrate together all in one [Re: gizmo1]
    #18747453 - 08/23/13 01:51 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

yea i got the cakes, the dub tub, and the king monotub going on all at once i was just feeling a lil frisky today


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Re: Preparing Wbs and Coir Substrate together all in one [Re: flipsidetrue]
    #18747456 - 08/23/13 01:51 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

The point of grain spawn is to let myc colonize, but also to be a highly nutritious food source.

This idea may work but I would use lc to inject instead of spores, better yet use a grain or agar transfer,also I wouldnt go above a 1:3 ratio. You may have better luck making a grain pocket of sorts to inject into instead of maybe missing and hitting the coir.

The premise has already been done, search coir cakes, or poo cakes. I haven't seen anyone do a spawn bag of such though. It is a bit more labor and energy intensive but would cut out pasteurization if you did enough bags.


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Re: Preparing Wbs and Coir Substrate together all in one [Re: maddchef]
    #18747512 - 08/23/13 02:04 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

maddchef said:
The point of grain spawn is to let myc colonize, but also to be a highly nutritious food source.

This idea may work but I would use lc to inject instead of spores, better yet use a grain or agar transfer,also I wouldnt go above a 1:3 ratio. You may have better luck making a grain pocket of sorts to inject into instead of maybe missing and hitting the coir.

The premise has already been done, search coir cakes, or poo cakes. I haven't seen anyone do a spawn bag of such though. It is a bit more labor and energy intensive but would cut out pasteurization if you did enough bags.



But after the price of bags and the small amount they would turn out due to having to do less at a time it wouldn't be saving anything it would be more counterproductive I'm
guessing and thats just my honest 2cents.


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Re: Preparing Wbs and Coir Substrate together all in one [Re: gizmo1]
    #18747569 - 08/23/13 02:22 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Lol I never said it was a great idea, only that it would probably work.


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In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

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Re: Preparing Wbs and Coir Substrate together all in one [Re: maddchef]
    #18747585 - 08/23/13 02:26 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

maddchef said:
The point of grain spawn is to let myc colonize, but also to be a highly nutritious food source.

This idea may work but I would use lc to inject instead of spores, better yet use a grain or agar transfer,also I wouldnt go above a 1:3 ratio. You may have better luck making a grain pocket of sorts to inject into instead of maybe missing and hitting the coir.

The premise has already been done, search coir cakes, or poo cakes. I haven't seen anyone do a spawn bag of such though. It is a bit more labor and energy intensive but would cut out pasteurization if you did enough bags.



:whathesaid:

And this could be done with bigger size bags gizmo...  Theoretically you could do a entire tubs worth at once, but as mad chef said above, separating to coir and grain spawn pockets initially would likely be necessary...  After the grain spawn had colonized, one could simply mash the grains and mix. 

From there I would think one would wish to allow it to colonize and fruit out of the bag as the coir had been sterilized, however who knows...  it might be that the exposure to the mycelium throughout the process might partially "seed" the coir or have given it extra defenses due to being around the myc pee exposure (per willsolvem's train of thought maybe?) 

It would all be theoretical though and although it may have saved a step it also may fail miserably.  More chance of failure I would think by placing in tub after mixing, but either way it has my interest and if flip has time to experiment I personally would be greatful for the reading and knowledge one way or the other...


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Offlineflipsidetrue
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Re: Preparing Wbs and Coir Substrate together all in one [Re: BloodKil]
    #18747649 - 08/23/13 02:49 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

im gunna try it why not? i wont lose anything i'm stacked on spore prints!

never know unless you try!


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Edited by flipsidetrue (08/23/13 03:37 PM)


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Re: Preparing Wbs and Coir Substrate together all in one [Re: flipsidetrue]
    #18747669 - 08/23/13 02:53 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

To any naysayers,  this has been done many times successfully in the past.
  They call these "mycobags" commonly, and are a one-step idea.
I've never done one, but the concept is logical.


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Re: Preparing Wbs and Coir Substrate together all in one [Re: flipsidetrue]
    #18747824 - 08/23/13 03:29 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

flipsidetrue said:
Quote:

Juiceh said:
OP, I think you need to do more research and figure out what Spawn is.





i know what spawn is, i was saying the mycelium would still colonize and wouldnt it just grow on the wbs and spread onto the coir so you wouldnt really havta to take some spawn and mix it



You can put WBS in as a component of a big autoclavable substrate bag. There is a vendor that sells sterilized poo mix bags that have WBS in them. But I believe that they are intended to be knocked up via a good amount of LC through the bag, or you slice the bag open at the top in front of a flow hood and dump in a bunch of colonized grain spawn and reseal the bag and mix it up. Using spawn would probably be the fastest way to inoculate it, but a heavy LC inoculation should give comparable colonization time.


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Offlineflipsidetrue
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Re: Preparing Wbs and Coir Substrate together all in one [Re: Juiceh]
    #18747880 - 08/23/13 03:44 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Okay well i am currently pressure cooking my mixture in an oven bag

4 quarts wbs and and half a brick of coir


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OfflineMaJiK_420
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Re: Preparing Wbs and Coir Substrate together all in one [Re: flipsidetrue]
    #18748435 - 08/23/13 06:41 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I've kinda read about something similar before...

I think I searched or asked if I could use Gallon size jars and one of the issues was that the centre could possibly become anaerobic, meaning no oxygen, meaning no growth in the centre.

I suppose as long as you have some sort of filter patch and maybe some strategically timed shaking would prevent the center from losing O2 supply.



On another note I am kind of experimenting with a different all in one kind spawn/substrate... Grass seed. I originally started off with Violets tek and I still have some going like that, but I am experimenting with using straight grass seed in monotubs.

Since the little plastic containers are inoculated and fruited with no bulk substrate being added, I figured I could just spawn colonized grass seed to sterilized grass seed in a tub. So far I'm getting triched out, but that has only been two mini tubs.

I think having to deal with only one material would be nice, rather than mixing a bunch of stuff together. Maybe add some casing bam.

With all that said I still do WBS in Glass quarts to coir/verm in tubs; "if it aint broken, don't fix it" Standard bulk procedures work great for big harvests, but I like experimenting with novelties and learning more about mushroom growth in general. I've almost stopped asking if something is gonna work and just trying it.

So good luck with your oven bag, I'll be interested to see if it works out for ya.


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Re: Preparing Wbs and Coir Substrate together all in one [Re: MaJiK_420]
    #18748468 - 08/23/13 06:52 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

That's not gonna work very well.

Why not just use PF mix in the bag and inoculate that?

Oeric, mycobags aren't usually full of bulk substrate, unless they're meant for you to spawn a jar to it in the bag.


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Re: Preparing Wbs and Coir Substrate together all in one [Re: BloodKil]
    #18749895 - 08/24/13 01:23 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

BloodKil said:
Quote:

maddchef said:
The point of grain spawn is to let myc colonize, but also to be a highly nutritious food source.

This idea may work but I would use lc to inject instead of spores, better yet use a grain or agar transfer,also I wouldnt go above a 1:3 ratio. You may have better luck making a grain pocket of sorts to inject into instead of maybe missing and hitting the coir.

The premise has already been done, search coir cakes, or poo cakes. I haven't seen anyone do a spawn bag of such though. It is a bit more labor and energy intensive but would cut out pasteurization if you did enough bags.



:whathesaid:

And this could be done with bigger size bags gizmo...  Theoretically you could do a entire tubs worth at once, but as mad chef said above, separating to coir and grain spawn pockets initially would likely be necessary...  After the grain spawn had colonized, one could simply mash the grains and mix. 

From there I would think one would wish to allow it to colonize and fruit out of the bag as the coir had been sterilized, however who knows...  it might be that the exposure to the mycelium throughout the process might partially "seed" the coir or have given it extra defenses due to being around the myc pee exposure (per willsolvem's train of thought maybe?) 

It would all be theoretical though and although it may have saved a step it also may fail miserably.  More chance of failure I would think by placing in tub after mixing, but either way it has my interest and if flip has time to experiment I personally would be greatful for the reading and knowledge one way or the other...



Oh... With pockets yes lol I didn't really understand that part but now I get it. I actually have a similar experiment I tried inside of 1 pint jars using a coffee filter to divide the layer of spawn from substrate. I will try to get pics posted by tomorrow night for you guys.


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Re: Preparing Wbs and Coir Substrate together all in one [Re: Oeric McKenna]
    #18749901 - 08/24/13 01:27 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Oeric McKenna said:
To any naysayers,  this has been done many times successfully in the past.
  They call these "mycobags" commonly, and are a one-step idea.
I've never done one, but the concept is logical.



Im pretty sure those are meant to be used with spawn. They sell them with grains and they sell them with sub generally if you want good results you mix the colonized myco bag filled with spawn with the myco bag filled with substrate. Honestly I wasn't trying to say it wouldnt work I was saying it wouldnt work well.
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Re: Preparing Wbs and Coir Substrate together all in one [Re: gizmo1]
    #18749950 - 08/24/13 01:52 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

It was more common in the past. Yes the term "mycobag" is a broad term.
Putting the grains In a single area to be inoculated, and mixing a week or so later would probably be a best bet for this idea


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Offlineflipsidetrue
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Re: Preparing Wbs and Coir Substrate together all in one [Re: Oeric McKenna]
    #18786507 - 09/01/13 06:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

i've never though of using grass seeds thats awesome! so i tried the idea i came up with and it didnt work out haha it was like nothing happend at all so i dumped it on my outdoor patch


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Offlinefractaldill
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Re: Preparing Wbs and Coir Substrate together all in one [Re: flipsidetrue]
    #18791963 - 09/02/13 08:50 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

i dont think coir works that way.


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