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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: crkhd]
    #18731154 - 08/20/13 07:26 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

So it's not simply about hearing it. It's about HEARING it, being responsive to it, being at the beck and call of factual information, whoever it is from.

Thats very different then how your initial post made it sound. There's work involved and you don't need a guru saying it but just the information itself that you are ready to grok imo.  That's how it's worked in my life anyway.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (08/20/13 07:27 AM)


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: Icelander]
    #18731171 - 08/20/13 07:31 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Yeah I find that all it takes is hearing what is already been observed by those who have already reached peace.

I would think that if that were true there would be a lot more realized folk around.  I mean if that's all it takes anyone who had heard the words of the enlightened would then be enlightened and so on and the world by now would be mostly enlightened.



Quote:

Icelander said:
So it's not simply about hearing it. It's about HEARING it, being responsive to it, being at the beck and call of factual information, whoever it is from.

Thats very different then how your initial post made it sound. There's work involved and you don't need a guru saying it but just the information itself that you are ready to grok imo.  That's how it's worked in my life anyway.




Ramana Maharshi would say guru is within, so you do need a guru but not necessarily a physical one. The guru is yourself.


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Offlinecrkhd
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: Icelander]
    #18731189 - 08/20/13 07:39 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
So it's not simply about hearing it. It's about HEARING it, being responsive to it, being at the beck and call of factual information, whoever it is from.

Thats very different then how your initial post made it sound. There's work involved and you don't need a guru saying it but just the information itself that you are ready to grok imo.  That's how it's worked in my life anyway.






This is where trust comes in.


It doesn't matter who it is I'm talking to, they can be guru zen master 5000 or random bum on road (same guru either way :lol:).

When someone relates an experience of theirs and your Sight tells you they are being honest and present pure intention, all you have to do is listen. The full THWACK of that person waking up, enduring brutal hardship and running through hell or high water to achieve their goal, that entire THWACK is present in their final words. If you hear, and actively hear, you can feel this carry through into your own Self.

Two ways to gleam wisdom:
1.) Learn from others
2.) Repeat their mistakes


It requires a developed empathy/compassion I guess, and also the trusting of yourself to know that this person is sincere. Information transfer between two selves can have various bandwidth.


For instance:

"For sale. Baby shoes. Never worn." - Ernest Hemingway

One person can look and say "oh, baby shoes for sale". The information transfer is a grand total of 6 words. But then another can compare it to their own gripping experience of a miscarriage or some event and it could give them 1000 words of internal information. It's all about being an empathetic being, placing yourself in their shoes, seeing it through their eyes. If you can experience what they experience through their words, that is paying the most sincere of heartfelt reverence. That is the essence of "Namaste" - "I acknowledge the light within you that is within me", that is saying "I hear you loud and clear and so loud and clear that I am changing myself because even though you suffered, I am going to make it now through my own actions that you suffered for something grand".


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: Chronic7]
    #18731193 - 08/20/13 07:41 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

The Chronic said:
Awesome, keep it simple

Really nothing is complicated, as whatever is, is, and that's just how things are for now, but we can easily complicate things by thinking about them too much

We usually give value to what we think are highly complex things, so by giving value to simplicity the whole thing is turned on its head, by recognizing silence as all powerful we simply stop making noise

In silence is peace, bliss, happiness, clarity, all the things we seek





One of my problems is that sometimes I dont want liberation enough. I will start to miss my old self as I let it die and stop delving further in contemplation of God. Then later, when I am suffering, I will again desire liberation. How can I get my whole being pointed at liberation so I dont hesitate and turn back when I am actually nearing it?





It will happen of its own accord, it's as simple as happiness, when you really understand that happiness is within you won't keep going without, sometimes it's like something calls you home, it can manifest as a question, as curiosity, or an urge to be blissfull or happy, an urge to be free

Often on the path we'll get a taste of bliss, then go back to the world until we become dissatisfied with it, then start seeking & turn within and experience bliss again, and keep repeating this, something may interest us for a while, but then we lose it, or lose interest in it, and start to look for something else again, be it another object or liberation, but we keep coming back to realize we are happiness, it's our nature

Sometimes even just a split second taste of that inner bliss is enough for someones mind to turn away & go back to chasing what can not bring lasting happiness, but then sometimes you dive deeper, you don't accept a little taste, you don't take the bait, the only limit to how deep you dive into yourself or into bliss is the limit you place on it

So the way i see it is that when we really really want true lasting happiness then the search for it simply becomes stronger than any other search, you dive so deep into reality that you lose yourself in it, then there is no 'me' that can then go back to the world, you and the world have become inseparable

Quote:

The hard part for me is that my egoic life on earth, was very miserable. I never had a well adjusted ego, I never had any happiness in my life as an ego. The part of me which clings, is the part that is sad about that and doesn't want to die (because liberation is a death of sorts) without having seen any of its dreams come to pass. Many of my egos dreams were out of accordance with my true desires and what will make me truly happy. Never the less, the frustration of living so many years stuck in ego but without achieving these dreams, leads to me feeling a certain sadness when it comes to really letting them go. Letting them go means never living the life I had envisioned for myself, but instead adopting something new and much better. Should my resistence be treated as simply another obstacle to be gotten rid of, or should self realization be postponed to a time when I am no longer interested in pursuing any self centered ego created goals?




Realization should never be postponed, most people in the world don't even know there is something called self-realization, i imagine the idea that infinite universe could realize itself through a human body sounds insane to most people, so if you are in a place where you are thinking about such things then you are extremely blessed, all your problems, misery, unhappiness is actually believe it or not a blessing, they may not feel it at the time, to have unfulfilled dreams, regrets, to feel incomplete & unhappy, to have fear things will continue this way... but if you were comfortable as the ego, getting everything you wanted, all the praise and success you need to keep maintaining your ego, then you might have taken longer to started thinking of God, then you wouldn't start to search for true happiness, true completeness

When you let go of the ideas & dreams that make up the ego you will still live life & appear to have a bodymind, dreams will still play out, and for the better, so don't have fear for your body or your mind, stay surrendered to what is, inquire into your nature, nothing can go wrong, nothing in this world can compare to the joy of self-knowledge

Remember this is all more in the realm of feeling rather than thinking, you don't have to think about any of this stuff, become silent & intuitive with yourself, trust that something in yourself knows the way, forget everything you've learnt, including all this im saying, feel your own inner serenity, stay with it & don't abandon it so quickly

If you really want something, whatever it is, then you will be compelled to go for it, nothing will stop you, but if you have doubts or confusion then there is less clarity & it slows the process down

Treat nothing as an obstacle to realization, ultimately you can't get out of your own way, as you are everything

So dive within, realize yourself, and be free




Thanks, again this post was helpful to me. Pretty much everything you said, was stuff that I already realized myself but having someone else tell me it, helps me to rid myself of any remaining doubt or confusion of the fact that I am on the right track and will eventually learn to stay in peace, rather than going out into the world searching for happiness, which brought me so much misery.

I know I am extremely blessed to even be where I am.


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: Deviate]
    #18731932 - 08/20/13 11:57 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Thats great

It's funny that you mentioned the analogy of the bull & the lush grass used to bring it under control as when i said 'when you really understand that happiness is within you won't keep going without' i was going to quote ramana's example of the bull being brought under control with lush grass, i ended up not typing it, but you got it anyway :smile:

When you realize bliss is in you as you, then the mind will naturally stop straying

I agree that Ramana supported any practice that people felt was helping them, he never told anyone they should give up their practices, even though asked on a weekly basis whether someone should give up their home family or practice, he never told anyone they should give up anything

He did say that atma-vicara or self-inquiry was the fastest & most direct path as it goes straight to Awareness, and at times pointed out the fundamental misunderstanding in practice itself, basically that if your practice presupposes that you are limited then how can it ever free you?


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Offlinewindowlikcer
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: Icelander]
    #18733481 - 08/20/13 06:19 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Yeah I find that all it takes is hearing what is already been observed by those who have already reached peace.

I would think that if that were true there would be a lot more realized folk around.  I mean if that's all it takes anyone who had heard the words of the enlightened would then be enlightened and so on and the world by now would be mostly enlightened.




I don't feel enlightened by what happened. What happened, was not happening to "me'. It was happening in a place where, as I said, reality and my awareness of it were no longer separate. There is no one to be enlightened in that state. All I know is that I read the words, and they seemed to catapult my consciousness away from the world, and in the process it became clear to me that the world and everything in it is fabricated from one second to the next by the mind. So as I sit here and try to write about it I must constantly refer back to an "I" which was not there, a place in which I wasn't, and a happening which did not happen.

This is perhaps why such experiences have made me feel more aware of a deep silence within myself, since when I think about these experiences, all I can really do is become silent. There is no way to put it in words because it is something which felt much more ancient and alive than language.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: Chronic7]
    #18733587 - 08/20/13 06:38 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
Thats great

It's funny that you mentioned the analogy of the bull & the lush grass used to bring it under control as when i said 'when you really understand that happiness is within you won't keep going without' i was going to quote ramana's example of the bull being brought under control with lush grass, i ended up not typing it, but you got it anyway :smile:

When you realize bliss is in you as you, then the mind will naturally stop straying

I agree that Ramana supported any practice that people felt was helping them, he never told anyone they should give up their practices, even though asked on a weekly basis whether someone should give up their home family or practice, he never told anyone they should give up anything

He did say that atma-vicara or self-inquiry was the fastest & most direct path as it goes straight to Awareness, and at times pointed out the fundamental misunderstanding in practice itself, basically that if your practice presupposes that you are limited then how can it ever free you?




Yes, that is the great wisdom Ramana Maharshi brought that is lacking in most religions and spiritual practices. The idea of practice causes you to think you are lacking something that must be gained, which causes you to miss the fact that the Self is ever present. However, that being said, as I explained earlier this knowledge will be useless to you if you cannot control your mind. If you absolutely do not have the strength of mind to look deeply into your present experience, all the intellectual understanding of Self-realization will do no good. Did Ramana Maharshi say you were doomed if that was the case? Of course not. He said that love for God and faith in Him solves everything.

If you love God, you didn't even worry about self-inquiry according to Ramana Maharshi. That in itself is enough.

That is why I cannot understand how people in this thread who claim to familiar with Ramana Maharshi are reacting negatively to my talking about God. His worldview was totally that of religion, the only difference is that he pointed out that the teachings of religion are only true from the false perspective of the ego. The world, the soul and God all appear when the ego rises and all vanish when the ego sinks. However, he maintained that from the standpoint of the ego, God cannot be denied. He said that the gods are just as real as you and I.


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: Deviate]
    #18733901 - 08/20/13 07:40 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

you're full of yourself


--------------------
...or something







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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: eve69] * 3
    #18735825 - 08/21/13 04:47 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

hopefully he is full of the Self


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: Chronic7] * 1
    #18736028 - 08/21/13 05:53 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I was going with the pun yes. 

However, the OP decocts various religious systems into one muddled heap thereby concentrating all into something else entirely.

If you love everything
then you love nothing.

If all religions are the same
then none of them are needed.

If you think you have fingured everything out
nothing has been thought through.

I still think this thread wasn't about sharing but about proseltyzing. The OP started with one premise then got more wily each new post.

But that seems to be a thing with followers of RM. You see it in Gangaji, Papaji, Dadaji, Santaji, and Twelveraindeerji. None of them say anything. But people still follow them and heap praises upon their wisdom. Those people need a few days at Shroomery S&M Forum to straighten them out.


--------------------
...or something







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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: eve69]
    #18739669 - 08/21/13 08:43 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
I was going with the pun yes. 

However, the OP decocts various religious systems into one muddled heap thereby concentrating all into something else entirely.

If you love everything
then you love nothing.

If all religions are the same
then none of them are needed.




I did not say all religion was the same. I don't believe that it is. However, there are people who sincerely love God in a wide variety of religions.

When I speak of a religious worldview, I am only lumping religions together in the sense that I recognize they share a certain commonality which is alien to atheism, that being the belief that the world is not the source of happiness. Not all religions state that, but Hinduism, Christianity , Buddhism and Judaism all agree on this very important point.

Quote:


If you think you have fingured everything out
nothing has been thought through.

I still think this thread wasn't about sharing but about proseltyzing. The OP started with one premise then got more wily each new post.




Actually, the real reason I created this thread was in the hope that someone would give me tips on how to practice self inquiry better. I have created other threads specifically for the purpose of prosetlyizing, so if that is what I wanted to do, why would I hide it under the guise of something else? Why are you suspicious of my motives?  What are your motives? They certainly do not seem to be coming from a place of love or kindness. My new posts in this thread came only as a response to what others had said. If people had stuck to the topic of self inquiry, I would have as well. If you would actually read this thread, you would see that it was other people who strayed and I merely responded to them. Let me ask you this: Why can't we be kind to each other?


Edited by Deviate (08/21/13 08:47 PM)


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: Deviate]
    #18739965 - 08/21/13 09:40 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Who am I?

:smile:

that made me realize i was not my thoughts
And the same I have ever been
Then what am i?

My soul is my heart, soul is love/happiness

To dance and be happy when you hear a good song
To draw etc.
To appreciate everything you see like first time you saw it
Infinite happiness from the small things

And that is without thoughts
Living now without worries, appreciating everything I have

Only think when needed

When thoughts are eliminated the true self can be experienced finally

But that is just how I experienced it
Everything that makes me happy is me/inner self and I know it is right then

Eliminating thoughts/worries and living now then there is only bliss
True self is happiness/bliss everyday

To be without thinking how to be  is freedom :smile:

I never read books about it yet


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: lessismore]
    #18740004 - 08/21/13 09:52 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Yes exactly. You have expressed what I am hear to promote. Religion only attempts to provide means for eliminating the obstacles to realizing what you just expressed. For some reason, people find this extremely offensive.


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: Deviate] * 1
    #18741001 - 08/22/13 06:09 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

My posts aren't about love and kindness. Not lately. It was your foray into The Church from the initial premise based in Gyan.  The Church has all the threads it needs.  East and West will never meet. I am 50 years old. I have a finely tuned bullshit meter.  Your defensiveness shows you really don't have the inner discernment that those of the Gyan path need. You didn't come here to learn about yourself but to show how smart and deep you are. I don't know you. You don't know me. If you had any sense you would maybe figure out that people who are into the mystical have all of us at some point been abused and bullied by the formal and major religions. We have a visceral twist everytime we see people try to allow Christianity take credit for something is has absolutely no credit taking for. All organized religions are the bane of free thought and science.  Most of them give not one fuck about preservation of earthly life but instead try too fuck over everybody else who isn't kith or kin. Genocide occurs everyday and religion is at the root of it. Deep thought and religion do not coexist. You have forgotten that all Christians on earth think everyone who isn't a Christian is automatically going to eternal damnation. I don't care about you personally. you hit my knee jerk reaction when you bundled Christ and Ramana Maharishi together in the same thread.

Fact is, I don't know much about Ramana Maharshi.  I came to this thread for more info about him. What I found was a bunch of gobbledygook.



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...or something







Edited by eve69 (08/22/13 06:28 AM)


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: eve69]
    #18741100 - 08/22/13 07:24 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

If you are frustrated about the church/religion you are still frustrated about yourself :wink:

Most religions probably have something valuable to teach

I don't think they are cults all of them, only some ;-)

I learned something from his post actually that fits own experience
world is not the source of your happiness
happiness comes from inside , and from being oneself

infinite happiness from that, everyday

and it was an interesting viewpoint on religion that I hadn't seen yet
I thought many religions taught acceptance, whatever acceptance means
probably means not living as thoughts/emotions/desires :smile:
not even sure acceptance is a good word, but non-acceptance is what we should avoid (constant thoughts)

acceptance and appreciation of everything is the true self
seeing the world like the miracle it is, and nature being sacred

someone once said we must become like children again, that's acceptance
world being new, no thoughts, just be


Edited by lessismore (08/22/13 07:29 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: lessismore]
    #18741148 - 08/22/13 07:48 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

If you are frustrated about the church/religion you are still frustrated about yourself

That's rich considering the fact that you felt the need to put me on ignore.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: lessismore]
    #18741150 - 08/22/13 07:52 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

also I agree about the OP about hunting the false I

the false I wants to live as its senses usually, thoughts/desires/emotions

but I realize that desires create more desires, attachment, frustration

so if I indulge in them it has to be rarely, or they trap me without me even knowing it (know from experience)

be it smoking weed/drugs, food, sex, thoughts
all thoughts/desires/emotions create attachments

instead see that is not who you are

observe thoughts
see how pointless judging others is
how pointless worrying is, never makes sense , live now in the moment instead - got everything
how pointless fearing losing your possessions is
how pointless being frustrated about not getting the possessions you want is
how pointless rage is , forgive instead
etc.
quickly you can be without thoughts, because they will leave if you observe them
you will realize they do you no good and that they are not who you are
when you realize you can have inner peace everyday without having anything

that is just how I do, see how pointless certain thoughts can be (someone here on shroomery learned me it it seems, helped me a lot:)

I don't know Maharshi a lot , but have seen some of his quotes and I agree with every one of them
he speaks about the true self too, true self is happiness (remember first time you saw the world)
if we are not happy we must be doing something wrong, live against ourselves

self inquiry must be to see what we are doing wrong and do what makes us happy instead?
just chose everything that brings happiness , drugs don't bring happiness the day after for me (except psychedelics rarely)


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OfflineCosmicjoker
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: lessismore]
    #18743739 - 08/22/13 06:30 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I often ask myself, who am I?

Ramana was right

There is only Self...

realize the Self, through removing obstacles.

How does one remove them?

By realizing the SELF...


--------------------
http://www.youtube.com/user/Cosmicjokester1

Check out my channel and if you want to explore further into my point of view, my website is linked on some of my videos depending on which one you watch... The channel is called "THE COSMIC JOKE (ONENESS)


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: Cosmicjoker] * 1
    #18745988 - 08/23/13 07:50 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Ramana Maharshi used to say to not get involved in debates or squabbles over things that don't actually matter, and to just find you who you are, so I find it amusing whats happened in this thread, thanks for putting it back on track CosmicJoker

Ramana said to ask the question - Who am I?
Nothing could be simpler

When the question 'Who am I?' consumes your mind it reveals infinite bliss that is latent within you, so ask the question, never ever answer it, you can only ever BE the answer

Nothing needs to be figured out, just ask yourself the question and be very happy


--------------------


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: Chronic7]
    #18746079 - 08/23/13 08:28 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

yeah I guess I agree

it wasn't in that session I found out I wasn't my thoughts etc.

I tried to find myself many times without luck, but suddenly I felt bliss from inside everyday

then I realized in daily life that I wasn't my thoughts I think
because I could now see that I could be happy without having anything
and whatever I always wanted it didn't make me happy, only being oneself does

agree with both previous posts fully

it can sometimes be hard to put words on, the only thing that changed was feeling love from inside everyday since, like I only used to feel many years ago


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