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InvisibleWillSolvem
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Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- * 1
    #18738488 - 08/21/13 04:34 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Oxalic acid and calcium oxalate.


Oxalic acid crystals are formed by mycelia. Oxalic acid mineralizes rock (vermiculite) by combining with calcium and many other minerals to form oxalates, in this case calcium oxalate. Calcium oxalate sequesters two carbon dioxide molecules. Carbon rich mushroom mycelia unfold into complex food webs, crumbling rocks as they go.

Scanning electron micrograph of calcium oxalate crystals forming upon mycelium.


Truth: a substrate needs to be fully saturated with mycelia acids/enzymes/metabolites in order for colonization of mushroom mycelia

It's a good thing then mycelia do not stop producing them until senescence, but the truth is it takes time for the mycelia to produce these acids/enzymes/metabolites. Never in nature does mushroom mycelia get to just pack it's bags after colonizing a nice clean media, build up stores of "myco-pee" before getting thrown into new media that's twice it's volume (2:1 spawn ratio).

"Leap off time" is the time it takes mycelia to recover, define it's environment, start the acids/enzymes/metabolites production, then colonize the new media (substrate). There are tricks for reducing leap off time, but the fact remains, until the media is saturated with mycelia acids/enzymes/metabolites, colonization cannot begin.

Mycelium recovering to a clean media containing at least some of it's own acids/enzymes/metabolites actively converting lignin, cellulose, and other molecules held together by hydrogen-carbon bonds (this it's why 20% of substrate volume is reduced to CO2 gas) is the best scenario, and can only be produced by a cultivator use of the over produced myco-pee when the mycelium meets a physical barrier.

"Myco-pee" also contains antibiotics to stop microbial parasites. Mushrooms resist bacterial and fungal rot until they release spores, age, and die.

I propose that serious cultivators should harvest all excess myco-pee and use it as a ingredient for all media. A >10% by volume addition has very noticeable results, though I prefer to substitute the water in my agar recipe for 100% myco-pee with amazing results.


HARVESTING:
At first I simply drawn off the excess myco-pee that built up in fully colonized mono tubs. Now I have small holes with rubber plugs in the bottoms of the tubs. Just prop the tub on a angle and drain. I envision having drains with valves and lines running to a main collection vessel, but I'll leave that to the industrious few reading this. I drain all of my spawn jars before shaking and spawning to bulk, but not with G2G. You can draw off myco-pee from jars with a needle, the mycelia will produce more over time, this can be accelerated by the use of <5ml sterile LC solution, then repeated for a faux continuous batch bioreactor.


USES:

Agar:
10-100% water substitution for myco-pee.
Mix with malts and let sit for 12 hours before mixing agar and sterilizing. Use in slants, plates, vaccutainer tubes, ect.

LC:
10-40% water substitution for myco-pee.
Prepare in normal manner otherwise.
Lower levels used because glucose is easier to break down then plant lignin and cellulose. No adverse effects if >40% is used though.

Grains:
10-100% water substitution for myco-pee.
Soak grains for 4 hours, any longer can result in too much break down and loss of immediately viable nutrients when straining IMO. After loading jars them let sit for another 12hrs before sterilizing to maximise effects.

Bulk Substrate:
10-100% water substitution for myco-pee.
Prepare substrate in normal manner otherwise.

Spray Bottle:
10-15% water substitution for myco-pee.
Remember myco-pee contains antibacterial and antifungal (competing fungi) properties that are made specifically to protect the fungi species your cultivating!
Seriously, try it on that cobweb mold before spraying peroxide that causes trauma to the mycelium.


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: WillSolvem]
    #18738609 - 08/21/13 04:56 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

This seems like a potentially AWESOME idea to me! thank you for your innovative mind. The first one I may try is the mycelial piss in the spray bottle, just the normal one for misting.

Or just mixing with bulk substrate. Because who knows that spraying that stuff might do.. :shrug:


Now develop a better way to extract more of the myco-pee, maybe from spent substrate? just squeeze it out? :lol:


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InvisibleWillSolvem
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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: WillSolvem]
    #18738777 - 08/21/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
Now develop a better way to extract more of the myco-pee, maybe from spent substrate? just squeeze it out? :lol:





Quote:

WillSolvem said:
You can draw off myco-pee from jars with a needle, the mycelia will produce more over time, this can be accelerated by the use of <5ml sterile LC solution, then repeated for faux continuous batch bioreactor.




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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: WillSolvem]
    #18740008 - 08/21/13 09:53 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

WillSolvem said:
Quote:

rbalzer said:
Now develop a better way to extract more of the myco-pee, maybe from spent substrate? just squeeze it out? :lol:





Quote:

WillSolvem said:
You can draw off myco-pee from jars with a needle, the mycelia will produce more over time, this can be accelerated by the use of <5ml sterile LC solution, then repeated for faux continuous batch bioreactor.






I know, I saw that part. I meant another one, because I mean, how much do you even yield off that method?

I'm thinking figure out what triggers it to form that stuff (i think its contams maybe) Learn more about what it actually is you're collecting.

And its function in normal fungal life.


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InvisibleWillSolvem
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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: WillSolvem]
    #18740915 - 08/22/13 04:51 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

>how much do you even yield off that method?

per jar ~75ml
per mono tub (30qts  of spawn/substrate) ~ 800-1200ml

>I'm thinking figure out what triggers it to form that stuff (i think its contams maybe)ย 

Mycelia "forms  that stuff" 24/7  no triggers needed.  you only start seeing myco-pee  after full colonization  when the mycelium meets a physical barrier.

Contams can trigger a  over-production,  but is not efficient,  nor a contam free method of harvest.

Higher environmental temps (85ยฐf+) have an effect on myco-pee production.

Some isolated strains are better at myco-pee production than others and can be mutated further with the use of UV-C  light,  but that's a  whole other topic.

>Learn more about what it actually is you're collecting.And its function in normal fungal life.

how about you actually read a thread before responding:
Quote:

WillSolvem said:

Oxalic acid crystals are formed by mycelia. Oxalic acid mineralizes rock (vermiculite) by combining with calcium and many other minerals to form oxalates, in this case calcium oxalate. Calcium oxalate sequesters two carbon dioxide molecules. Carbon rich mushroom mycelia unfold into complex food webs, crumbling rocks as they go.

...containing at least some of it's own acids/enzymes/metabolites actively converting lignin, cellulose, and other molecules held together by hydrogen-carbon bonds (this it's why 20% of substrate volume is reduced to CO2 gas)...

"Myco-pee" also contains antibiotics to stop microbial parasites. Mushrooms resist bacterial and fungal rot until they release spores, age, and die.





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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: WillSolvem] * 1
    #18740920 - 08/22/13 04:56 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Using the incorrect term "Myco-Pee", instead of "metabolites" makes this sound like a joke written by a noob, no offense bro.

It's a great write up, my only suggestion is fixing that.

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Mycelium does not urinate, does not have a bladder, and there is no such thing as myc piss.  Why this horrible disinformation persists after we've known for over 50 years that these liquids are antibiotic and released in response to bacteria is beyond comprehension.
Next time you get sick, ask the doctor for a myc piss shot instead of antibiotics and see him look at you like you just bumped your head or fell off a turnip truck.
If your grains are infected, there will be metabolites.  If you've colonized at above normal room temperature, bacteria has been stimulated and thus the metabolites.
RR



Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
It's not even a waste product, and people who call it piss are ignorant.  The liquid is excreted to help break down the substrate, and in a different formulation is produced to fight contaminant molds and bacteria.  These are the products antibiotics are made of.



Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Mycelium does not urinate, not is it infused with bacteria.  Metabolites are anti-bacterial in fact.  Mix it with water and use it on your plants.  It's an excellent fertilizer.
RR




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InvisibleLucid_Euphoria
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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: PussyFart]
    #18740986 - 08/22/13 05:53 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I found the uses for this thread interesting, especially the use in spawn substrate, as it could absolutely be a contamination deterrent and also a catalyst of quick colonization.

Very intriguing. Thank you for your brainstorm.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: Lucid_Euphoria]
    #18741063 - 08/22/13 07:00 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #18741153 - 08/22/13 07:54 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

:takingnotes:

IMO I've always like the term "myco piss". We all know it isn't "myco piss" anyway. Great write up, I'll definitely be keeping this in the back of my head from now on. Thanks!

edit: myco pee myco piss, tomato tamato.


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Edited by Pestile (08/22/13 08:33 AM)


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InvisibleWillSolvem
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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: Pestile]
    #18741674 - 08/22/13 10:31 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I  agree a  universally accepted name would be nice for this otherwise complex makeup. I am starting a  Petri dish line infused with myco-pee, I am  naming the products "Myco-P".  available to the public this November.  Will post links here and giveaway 100  in the market place!


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OfflineTrippy_Penguin
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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: WillSolvem]
    #18741734 - 08/22/13 10:43 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

A doctor doesn't walk into the room and say "well your cock is infected". I know we're not doctors here, but this board has a certain level of professionalism where I think the proper term should be used :cool:


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InvisiblePestile

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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: Trippy_Penguin]
    #18741762 - 08/22/13 10:49 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I guess you're right on that one. I still like it, tho. Metabolites it is.


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: Trippy_Penguin]
    #18741767 - 08/22/13 10:50 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Yea lets be politically correct. Cause thats what the president wants! YEEHAAW. Party time.

How about you just call it whatever you all want and just chill out.

Its a name, it don't mean a thing when we all know wtf were talking about.


A most excellent idea by the way OP.  Ill be trying this out on my next petris for sure.


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Edited by Habadashery (08/22/13 10:51 AM)


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: Habadashery]
    #18741891 - 08/22/13 11:25 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I was waiting for this Will, and I like it. I go through about 20 petris every week so I will certainly give it a go in my agar.

Good shit :thumbup:


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InvisibleJuiceh
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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: Habadashery]
    #18741931 - 08/22/13 11:35 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

What about the difference in color of metabolites? What do they mean?

I can't wait till I get more dishes to make some agar with metabolites!


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: Juiceh]
    #18742078 - 08/22/13 12:06 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I love how offended RR gets over people calling it myc piss. Big fucking deal :shrug:


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #18742090 - 08/22/13 12:08 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

It has nothing to do with piss.

The only thing metablites and piss have in common is a shade of yellow.

I can understand why a professional would get frustrated when seeing it referred to as such.


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: PussyFart]
    #18742144 - 08/22/13 12:17 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Every pile of grains I dunk before spawning to bulk leaves me with about a gallon of diluted, "metabolite water" if you will.

I think my experiments will start with that. I rarely if ever see visible metabolites forming in jars or bags and I prefer to keep it that way :shrug:


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18742164 - 08/22/13 12:20 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:I rarely if ever see visible metabolites forming in jars or bags and I prefer to keep it that way :shrug:



I was just thinking that. It would take quite a while for me to harvest enough metabolites to use in any of the listed applications.


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: Juiceh]
    #18742267 - 08/22/13 12:48 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

How can u be sure it won't contaminate other projects.  I understand that it in its self a form of anti body but still seems a bit off to spreading one specimens metabolites to another's.  Almost how some peoples organs will be rejected by another's immune system even though its the same thing.

Also finding how to make a sizeable amount to use in large quantity seems like it would take forever unless you had a large scale operation.

I guess it almost equates to you and your friend pissing on each others feet cause you both have athletes foot.  Ha ha.  My bad attempt at humor.


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InvisiblePestile

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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: TasteTheSound]
    #18742281 - 08/22/13 12:52 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

He can get a liter out of bulk and 75 ml from a jar. That is almost large scale.


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: Pestile]
    #18742304 - 08/22/13 01:00 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I seized the inspiration and ran with it..I made grain-dunk agar.

I think I'll make a thread about it when I get results. It is pressure cooking right now :thumbup:


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18742349 - 08/22/13 01:10 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I'm sorry.. I'm a bit confused and have yet to venture into agar work.  But are you pressure cooking the metabolites or just your grain?


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InvisiblePestile

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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: TasteTheSound]
    #18742391 - 08/22/13 01:18 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

He's pressure cooking the metabolite-water he got from dunking grains, mixed with agar. To be use for petri pouring.


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Edited by Pestile (08/22/13 01:22 PM)


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: Pestile]
    #18742400 - 08/22/13 01:20 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I don't want to jack this thread so I'll go into more detail when I have results.

I mixed together 400mL of leftover water from my grain dunk with 8g of agar-agar.

The grain dunk water has a mix of metabolites, bits of mycelium, and trace nutrients from the grains themselves. It should be quite an interesting agar recipe.


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18742764 - 08/22/13 02:38 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Seems like it would shorten leap-off time as well.


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #18742966 - 08/22/13 03:23 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

OK so question being will the beficial anti bodies and anything els which makes up the metabolites even survive being put through a pressure cooker?


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: Juiceh]
    #18743001 - 08/22/13 03:36 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Juiceh said:
What about the difference in color of metabolites? What do they mean?




this answer has a couple different aspects to it,  so bare with me:

firs is quantity; a couple drops of water from a lake looks clear and clean,  but a  glass full of the same water looks murky and opaque.

second is quality;  not all strains  produce the same amounts  and/or  the same makeup or ratios of acids/enzymes/metabolites. I  have even observed a link between poor/great colonizing (and  contam resistance) strains and their ability to produce  acids/ enzymes/ metabolites

third is environmental;  heat and humidity play their roles,  higher temps seem to drive  over production while humidity determines how much water is evaporating from the myco-pee.  You can even evaporate myco-pee under a vacuum into dark amber crystals ( I'll post pics shortly).  Contam presence does play a role in over production but should be avoided. UV-C  will mutate just about any fungi and can be implemented (think LSD  production from clavicep spp.).  I'm even observing a link between vibrations too,  but further studying is needed to be conclusive.


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: TasteTheSound]
    #18743025 - 08/22/13 03:43 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

TasteTheSound said:
OK so question being will the beficial anti bodies and anything els which makes up the metabolites even survive being put through a pressure cooker?




bread baked at 400ยฐf  for an hour still has active enzymes from the yeast...


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: WillSolvem]
    #18743308 - 08/22/13 04:47 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Why don't we just call it 'Myco-tabs' or just 'tabs' and have everyone use that from now on so we don't have to keep writing out 'metabolites' whenever we talk about it.  It would certainly sound better than 'mushroom pee'


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #18743325 - 08/22/13 04:49 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

No. Because it isn't tabs. It metabolites.

And it doesn't sound better than myco pee. :smile:


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: Pestile]
    #18743370 - 08/22/13 04:59 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

do the metabolites show up in any other form besides liquid?


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #18743464 - 08/22/13 05:23 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #18743470 - 08/22/13 05:24 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Holy shit. Let's just give it a rest on the choice of name. Who cares?

Don't turn this thread into a bunch of bickering over trivial crap.

:thanx:


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: FrankHorrigan] * 1
    #18743486 - 08/22/13 05:27 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

:aweshit:

Fuck yo couch


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #18743517 - 08/22/13 05:35 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

>do the metabolites show up in any other form besides liquid?

yes,  solids,  most notably calcium oxalate.

I've seen what I believe to be oxalate crystals precipitate  on the sides of jars  that were exposed to temps swings.

I  have also evaporated myco-pee under vacuum  and yielded dark amber crystals,  waiting on results from a mass spectral analysis,  I'll post pictures shortly!

gases are also created in the process of metabolism,  mostly co2  when broken carbon bonds react with the oxygen  in the atmosphere


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: PussyFart]
    #18746555 - 08/23/13 10:21 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
It has nothing to do with piss.

The only thing metablites and piss have in common is a shade of yellow.

I can understand why a professional would get frustrated when seeing it referred to as such.



Yep, it's just slang though.

Since I understand what metabolites are, I'm gonna call it what i please. Because it doesn't change anything. :shrug:


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18747706 - 08/23/13 03:03 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:I rarely if ever see visible metabolites forming in jars or bags and I prefer to keep it that way :shrug:



I was just thinking that. It would take quite a while for me to harvest enough metabolites to use in any of the listed applications.


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: WillSolvem]
    #18754005 - 08/25/13 03:48 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

WillSolvem said:
Quote:

TasteTheSound said:
OK so question being will the beficial anti bodies and anything els which makes up the metabolites even survive being put through a pressure cooker?




bread baked at 400ยฐf  for an hour still has active enzymes from the yeast...




This is somewhat misleading, since the internal temperature of that bread is 190-200F when it's pulled out of the oven.  Additionally, you can be sure that none of the surviving enzymes are the amylase crucial for the breakdown of starches into sugars digestible by the yeast or any other fungi.  Most amylases denature at a temperature lower than boiling (80C is a number that's often thrown about) and there's no reason I've encountered to believe that the amylases produced by basidiomycetes is any different.  Lignin peroxidase craps out at 50-60C, and cellulase isn't far behind it at 65C.  Pressure cooking regularly exceeds 120C at 15 PSI.

Amylases will easily survive substrate pasteurization, however, and mashing for beer is often done at substrate pasteurization temps because amylase seems to work best in the 150F range.  For this reason I suspect it might be better that most of the uses you list involve pressure cooking, as a substrate rich in simple sugars has been shown to result in sluggish growth.

While I'm skeptical, I'd still be very curious to see a clonal study on the effect of a metabolite solution applied directly to a bulk substrate prior to proper pasteurization, especially with regard to the effect of these metabolites on the contamination rate due to reduced thermophile count after exposure to antibiotics and colonization speed due to decreased thermophile competition.


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: Psilicon]
    #18755111 - 08/25/13 01:01 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

This maybe true for yeast which makes it a misleading example,  higher saprophytic  fungi on the other hand excrete polypeptides/glycoprotiens to protect mycelial tissue from the effects of extreme temperatures.  Case in point; morels, which prolifically fruits from just under a few inches of soil after a  forest fire where temperatures exceed 2700ยฐf+  at soil level








Try freezing/boiling myco-pee if you disagree


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Edited by WillSolvem (08/25/13 01:08 PM)


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: WillSolvem]
    #18755126 - 08/25/13 01:07 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Fascinating stuff.  Can't wait to see what comes of this.


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: TheWiz]
    #18755236 - 08/25/13 01:50 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

TheWiz said:
Fascinating stuff.  Can't wait to see what comes of this.



Certainly!

There was a post in the past, where the OP showed a grain jar that had been "lost" for year+ IIRC.  The bottom quarter of the jar was filled with amber fluid.  It looked like a bunch of metabolites around a shrunken solid white block.

I wonder why aluminum and other inert materials are being broken down.  Its great to potentially see what chemical process is going into it, and possibly seeing some more how/why.  Moreover, Id like to know IF/What chemicals are being digested and possibly consumed.  Could certain materials break down into something more sinister and ruin a grow?


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #18755552 - 08/25/13 03:04 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

..


Edited by abltsandwich (09/14/13 12:57 AM)


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: WillSolvem]
    #18755660 - 08/25/13 03:34 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

WillSolvem said:
This maybe true for yeast which makes it a misleading example,  higher saprophytic  fungi on the other hand excrete polypeptides/glycoprotiens to protect mycelial tissue from the effects of extreme temperatures.  Case in point; morels, which prolifically fruits from just under a few inches of soil after a  forest fire where temperatures exceed 2700ยฐf+  at soil level








Try freezing/boiling myco-pee if you disagree




What makes you so certain it's the metabolites that keep the morels alive, rather than the fact that they form sclerotia packed with nutrients which may be deeper underground?  Pilz had a great article which suggested that in 2007, mentioning someone else's 2003 research.

Sorry, man, but I find it pretty unbelievable that there is any organic secretion which prevents the denaturing of proteins and the oxidation of phospholipids almost all the way up to the melting point of steel (2800F), which incidentally is so hot that the glow from it can cause retina damage if you look at it for too long.  But if what you say is true, I've got the perfect thing:  a month-old pint of barley, fully colonized and with about an inch of light yellow metabolites standing at the bottom of the jar.  If they protect from the heat that well, I should be able to crumble, case and fruit it after boiling it for an hour or two in the jar, right?


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: Psilicon]
    #18755835 - 08/25/13 04:21 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

>If they protect from the heat that well, I should be able to crumble, case and fruit it after boiling it for an hour or two in the jar,ย  right?

Hmmm, I think using sclerotia would be more relevant (ps. galandoi or ps. mexicana a) with different temps/times. but if mycelia is to be tested I would suggest  bringing it to pasteurization temps first,  mycelium should be destroyed at those temps,  if it works see what boiling and pressure cooking does. I  would also suggest control specimens  where the mycelia has  not had a chance to build stores of myco-pee. I would also test the above temps under increasing times  to know the effects of ten minutes of pasteurization temps against say twenty or  thirty to pinpoint mycelial death at what time/temp ratio then see if the presence of myco-pee makes a difference. A  proven isolated strain should be used.

Please keep us updated and thank you for the possible contribution! :thumbup:


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: WillSolvem]
    #18757050 - 08/25/13 09:00 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I mentioned it the other day, but perhaps activated carbon would help with the production of myc piss... err.. metabolites (sorry RR, isn't human piss simply metabolites though,what's the difference?). I would imagine that at first the carbon would soak up the.. metabolites, so that you wouldn't see them or they'd be readily available for collection for some time, however there would reach a tipping point where they'd simply start filling up the jar and coming out of the top. You could even hook up a hose to a hole on the top and it would be naturally distilled into your collection dish I would think. Likewise you could also simply put rocks and various types of minerals into the jars, I just mentioned in another thread asking why I'm getting orange metabolites how I was impressed by the amount and variance of mineral formations present within my hpoo substrate prior to pasteurization. Likewise I wonder how these compounds affect the end product, what kind of mushrooms and psychoactive compounds are produced by the addition and/or tweaked ratios of various minerals? By extension, and I hope I'm not overloading you guys with thoughts, but if the psychoactive compounds present within the mushroom themselves are believed to be created for defense purposes and likewise metabolites are created for defense purposes then one must question what compounds might be created in the process of breaking down these minerals. This is rather far out there, but I feel like if you keep adding more and more myc piss to your substrate and more and more minerals eventually you'd be able to isolate a whole new species that can subsist solely on rocks! I don't know if that would have any psychoactive properties, but that is pretty damn cool in itself. Maybe even that's what lysergic acid is is nothing more than a compound excreted by the ergot family to metabolize minerals? Ok, I'll stop there, soon I'll start talking about how mushrooms ate god or something :rofl:.


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: krypto2000]
    #18757215 - 08/25/13 09:29 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

>eventually you'd be able to isolate a whole new species that can subsist solely on rocks!

the species your looking for is called Prototaxites


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: WillSolvem]
    #18757366 - 08/25/13 09:56 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Never heard of those, but thanks, I'll have to learn about them. I was thinking something psychoactive however, imagine the energy/dosing of an entheogen that can consume crystals as its primary diet :shocked:


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: krypto2000]
    #18762903 - 08/27/13 08:34 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I just found out a way to quite dramatically increase metabolite production, however there were too many variables to say for certain if it is a reliable method or even which factors at play were specifically responsible.

I was a little worried I saw signs of trich upon inspection this morning so I took my mono outside in the morning light to get a better view. It was a little on the warm side since all the condensation was evaporating (perhaps it's also simply going to be hot today, it's hard to tell since I've only been up for an hour), but it felt like I positioned the tub so that the sun focused right on it. I didn't have it out there for more than two or three minutes, and I watched it the whole time, metabolites just started pooling at the bottom of the bin and now the substrate also looks dramatically better than it did last night when I went to drain it (it was full of metabs all over and the poo was even starting to turn a light brown in spots.

I just cracked the lid to get a better look (While holding my breath and monitoring outside airflow) as it's just about ready for birth and CO2 is clearly building up and god damn did that thing look much more white and vibrant than it did last night or even in my house just a few minutes prior, mind you the sun is typically a better light than my kitchen, but it had a remarkable improvement from last night when I had drained it.

So either the sunlight helped alone (heat and/or uv), drawing off the liquid last night did, or a number of things. As I said it'd hard to reproduce or determine reliably the exact cause since there's so many variables, but something to think about for future collectors. I'm going to go draw some of this off and add it to my jar :thumbup:.

edit: Damn, upon bringing it back inside and typing this post the liquids already been reabsorbed :confused:. Still looks much healthier than last night upon inspection though, this makes me wish I had a UV light to do some experimenting with; it definitely seems to be a good source of energy or something for our mushroom friend.


Edited by krypto2000 (08/27/13 08:39 AM)


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: krypto2000]
    #18763030 - 08/27/13 09:24 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Well after bringing it back inside and letting it sit it was clear there was a trich, or at least some kind of green/yellow mold starting to form in one small spot. Just got back from buring/spawning it into the yard :shrug:. Hopefully it'll bear fruit still.

How do you guys store your myc-piss/metabolites btw? They seem quite reactive, this morning it had changed from a light yellow to an amber brown and the volume even decreased dispite sealing it tightly in a glass jar with a fresh rubber seal/band. It's currently sitting on a shelf in the pantry, but I question what, or if, it's excreting any fumes into the open air. I'm not sure if this would exactly be a bad thing even, but something to wonder about. Likewise the same problem would probably be present in putting it in the fridge, and I'm not sure what the freezer would yield, but all methods would likely cause excretion and thus end up on the food, around the house, etc. Again, not sure if that's a good or bad thing though, but something I'm curious about. If you pissed in a jar and planned to use it later where would you store it? :rofl:


Edited by krypto2000 (08/27/13 09:26 AM)


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: krypto2000]
    #18763389 - 08/27/13 11:12 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quick q wood sorrel whih is a comon plant around here also produces oxalic acid maybe i could make a wood sorrel tea with the same benifits ??


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: Germanelite]
    #18763602 - 08/27/13 12:03 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I was thinking something similar, but I'm not sure. All kinds of dark greens produce oxalic acid, spinach, kale, etc, however they might also contain lots of mold spores. On the one hand including these dead mold spores could select for strains and/or symbiotic bacteria to help the mushroom fight it off (I suspect this is why the metabolites are excreted in particular), however since the mushroom did not produce the oxalic acid and 'tea' itself it may go either way. At this time we just don't have enough information so it's likely better to stick with strait myco-piss unless you feel like doing an experiment.


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: krypto2000]
    #18906871 - 09/29/13 12:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Anyone done anymore work with this? I had a jar about 1/4 the way full which I shelved for a month. Opened it up today with the idea of adding it to my current batch of grains and to my surprise the jars smelled *exactly* like pasturized horse manure.


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: WillSolvem]
    #19347674 - 12/30/13 06:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

WillSolvem said:
>If they protect from the heat that well, I should be able to crumble, case and fruit it after boiling it for an hour or two in the jar,ย  right?

Hmmm, I think using sclerotia would be more relevant (ps. galandoi or ps. mexicana a) with different temps/times. but if mycelia is to be tested I would suggest  bringing it to pasteurization temps first,  mycelium should be destroyed at those temps,  if it works see what boiling and pressure cooking does. I  would also suggest control specimens  where the mycelia has  not had a chance to build stores of myco-pee. I would also test the above temps under increasing times  to know the effects of ten minutes of pasteurization temps against say twenty or  thirty to pinpoint mycelial death at what time/temp ratio then see if the presence of myco-pee makes a difference. A  proven isolated strain should be used.

Please keep us updated and thank you for the possible contribution! :thumbup:




All right, it's been a few months, but I'm finally ready to post the results from this experiment. 

I took a jar of grain which had been sitting around for a while, and which had collected a healthy amount of metabolites.  You can see some of the pool of metabolites it was sitting in in this picture, but you'll have to take my word that there was much more than is visible here.



About eight beers were consumed, and the jar was boiled for a period of time that I don't remember.



Afterward, the mycelium had a much more matte look to it.  The amount of metabolites had increased, as well.



Much to my surprise, after only a few days fluffy white mycelium appeared again.  I let it sit for three months to recover fully.  So can metabolites protect cubensis mycelium from boiling temperatures?

:rofldrunk:  Hell no!


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: Psilicon]
    #19347737 - 12/30/13 06:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Hahahaha
Well, :themoreyouknow:


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: blojo02184]
    #19347796 - 12/30/13 06:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:hi:

You had me going there! :p

:dancer:  :cheers:


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: Gorlami]
    #19347854 - 12/30/13 06:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I wish you recorded times a little better and didn't place the jar in direct contact with the bottom of the pot. Mycelial death occurs at 106ยฐf within minutes. I'm not surprise at your results but would propose better and controlled testing with temperature sliding scale. I have allot going on lately and have not gotten to the temperature testing myself.

Thank you for sharing results :cheers:


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: WillSolvem]
    #19347866 - 12/30/13 06:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

WillSolvem said:
This maybe true for yeast which makes it a misleading example,  higher saprophytic  fungi on the other hand excrete polypeptides/glycoprotiens to protect mycelial tissue from the effects of extreme temperatures.  Case in point; morels, which prolifically fruits from just under a few inches of soil after a  forest fire where temperatures exceed 2700ยฐf+  at soil level




I think we stopped a bit short of the benchmark you provided, though, didn't we?


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: Psilicon]
    #19347889 - 12/30/13 06:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


Case in point; morels, which prolifically fruits from just under a few inches of soil after aย  forest fire where temperatures exceed 2700ยฐf+ย  at soil level





I'm sorry were you testing morel mycelia or cubensis? I did not set any benchmark for cubensis.. and I did propose the use of sclerotia for testing the effects of extreme heat not mycelia.

Quote:


Hmmm, I think using sclerotia would be more relevant (ps. galandoi or ps. mexicana a) with different temps/times. but if mycelia is to be tested I would suggestย  bringing it to pasteurization temps first as...





Edited by WillSolvem (12/30/13 07:16 PM)


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: WillSolvem]
    #24370320 - 06/02/17 09:44 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

So people see good results with this idea? Totally forgot about it, never seen it talked about elsewhere, did it pan out?


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #24370610 - 06/02/17 11:08 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I propose that serious cultivators should harvest all excess myco-pee




id hardly call myself a serious cultivator but i dont have myco piss because i make clean spawn. i doubt this went anywhere beyond a hair brained idea.

or im an asshole.


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: mushboy]
    #24370628 - 06/02/17 11:16 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
Quote:

I propose that serious cultivators should harvest all excess myco-pee




id hardly call myself a serious cultivator but i dont have myco piss because i make clean spawn. i doubt this went anywhere beyond a hair brained idea.

or im an asshole.



A uninformed asshole actually :thumbup:


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: WillSolvem]
    #24370631 - 06/02/17 11:18 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Ever done side by sides? Pics?


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #24370636 - 06/02/17 11:20 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

inform me.

i dont have nasty spawn so i dont produce metabolites that i can see at least. but i would collect them
to fight off bacteria? id rather have clean spawn. OR its used as food?? again.. inform me so ill just be an asshole.


Edited by mushboy (06/02/17 11:25 AM)


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: mushboy]
    #24370661 - 06/02/17 11:30 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Oxalic acid and calcium oxalate

So the active ingredients in myc-piss are only theese two? If someone can confirm this I will buy them and start experimenting :smile:


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: mushhiehunter]
    #24370769 - 06/02/17 12:01 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

calcium oxalate results from the oxalic acid reacting with the verm if I understand correctly.

I'm sure the myc piss has more to it than that but I'd been wondering myself if adding oxalic acid alone would have any effect


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #24370778 - 06/02/17 12:06 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

what if you dont use verm?

Quote:

Oxalic acid in concentrated form can have harmful effects through contact and if ingested;




i gotta be missing something here.

isnt calcium oxalata kidney stones?:shrug:


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: mushboy]
    #24370797 - 06/02/17 12:14 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

looking at the wiki page for it, its also in a variety of foods, like spinach


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #24370831 - 06/02/17 12:28 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Psilosopherr said:
looking at the wiki page for it, its also in a variety of foods, like spinach



That's right and I'm allergic to it, I get a burning sesne in my mouth when I eat baby spinach :smile:


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: mushboy]
    #24370833 - 06/02/17 12:28 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

WillSolvem said:
A uninformed asshole actually :thumbup:




Quote:

mushboy said:
inform me.





:waitingpatiently:


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: mushboy]
    #24370929 - 06/02/17 01:03 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not buying it, but :popcorn:


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: mushboy]
    #24371308 - 06/02/17 02:57 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
Quote:

WillSolvem said:
A uninformed asshole actually :thumbup:




Quote:

mushboy said:
inform me.





:waitingpatiently:



:ponder:


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: Mr Piggy]
    #24371318 - 06/02/17 03:03 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mr Piggy said:
Quote:

mushboy said:
Quote:

WillSolvem said:
A uninformed asshole actually :thumbup:




Quote:

mushboy said:
inform me.





:waitingpatiently:



:ponder:



I'm done spoon feeding noobs on this site. Go open a book, it's in there, work for it. I don't care either way


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: WillSolvem]
    #24371358 - 06/02/17 03:24 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Civility y'all.

I'm also not seeing the point of this for hobby indoor psychedelic cultivation.

Maybe better suited in gourmet and medicinals?


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24371364 - 06/02/17 03:26 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Lock this shit bodhi, good seeing you buddy :wave:


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AMU Q&A Thread because questions deserve answers.


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Re: Willsolvem's Myco-pee tek -additions/contributions welcome- [Re: WillSolvem] * 1
    #24371366 - 06/02/17 03:26 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

This thread has been closed.

Reason:
At Will's request.
If you ever want it opened just press notify moderator or send one of us a message

P.s. likewise hope you stick around a while


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