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born420
Stranger
Registered: 08/14/13
Posts: 20
Loc: Ga
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Re: Active Panaeolus Species From North GA [Re: Byrain]
#18734018 - 08/20/13 08:01 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sorry, I wasn't really looking for an ID, but 2nd opinions like your are appreciated. I meant to specify that better and wanted to show these as I was also puzzled at their size and wanted to make sure others could see the two examples in the same place from same area. Ill make sure seperate them in the future.
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born420
Stranger
Registered: 08/14/13
Posts: 20
Loc: Ga
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Re: Active Panaeolus Species From North GA [Re: Hashfinger]
#18734074 - 08/20/13 08:11 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
knarkkorven said:
P. fimicola is a dung mushroom. I also find the "accurate" ID:s having quite unique macroscopical characteristics that yours are missing, like the very dark cap. Check for example PMOTW or this photo
Quote:
knarkkorven said: This is part why:
Quote:
Found in my neighbor's very steeply sloped front lawn. Red clay, bermuda grass.
P. fimicola is a dung mushroom. I also find the "accurate" ID:s having quite
Your right, but what you can't see, is that these members know their shit! This mushroom got the proper ID by someone who thought it was in Bermuda Sod. They can see beyond that and still prevail. Sorry to be an ass, but takes one to know one.
Mad props on fimi ID.
It may be a yard but there were cows there at some point. We always had a Black Angus herd and bull. Those picture are of an old old cow pie. That just got rained on 'like a cow pissing on a flat rock' as they say around the house. Depending on the use of the area now as to how low that will be there. Bush hogs go right over them. That's why cow fields have those grassy spots that stand out. And that also were you look, in the grass heaps. Every heap is a dung pile at the bottom.
The grass in the picture is mixed but the layer at the bottom appears to be centipede grass. Common here were we live. If you want I'll take a picture in the pasture of an old cow pie. It will look just like yours as we have a lot of centipede in certain areas. Also for the most part, everything here is growing 'on red clay'.
I'd love to see a more backed off shot. Not so raised up that someone might see them and know where it is the pic is from, but from 25 feet or so.
So if you ask me, those are growing from dung…good ID even having a totally different description of were it was growing. Props, good call to the early id
-------------------- Who dat, me dat.
Edited by born420 (08/20/13 08:37 PM)
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Hashfinger
Nippy Wiffle



Registered: 07/10/12
Posts: 4,775
Loc: Georgia
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: Active Panaeolus Species From North GA [Re: born420]
#18736308 - 08/21/13 07:51 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
born420 said:
Quote:
knarkkorven said:
P. fimicola is a dung mushroom. I also find the "accurate" ID:s having quite unique macroscopical characteristics that yours are missing, like the very dark cap. Check for example PMOTW or this photo
Quote:
knarkkorven said: This is part why:
Quote:
Found in my neighbor's very steeply sloped front lawn. Red clay, bermuda grass.
P. fimicola is a dung mushroom. I also find the "accurate" ID:s having quite
Your right, but what you can't see, is that these members know their shit! This mushroom got the proper ID by someone who thought it was in Bermuda Sod. They can see beyond that and still prevail. Sorry to be an ass, but takes one to know one.
Mad props on fimi ID.
It may be a yard but there were cows there at some point. We always had a Black Angus herd and bull. Those picture are of an old old cow pie. That just got rained on 'like a cow pissing on a flat rock' as they say around the house. Depending on the use of the area now as to how low that will be there. Bush hogs go right over them. That's why cow fields have those grassy spots that stand out. And that also were you look, in the grass heaps. Every heap is a dung pile at the bottom.
The grass in the picture is mixed but the layer at the bottom appears to be centipede grass. Common here were we live. If you want I'll take a picture in the pasture of an old cow pie. It will look just like yours as we have a lot of centipede in certain areas. Also for the most part, everything here is growing 'on red clay'.
I'd love to see a more backed off shot. Not so raised up that someone might see them and know where it is the pic is from, but from 25 feet or so.
So if you ask me, those are growing from dung…good ID even having a totally different description of were it was growing. Props, good call to the early id
What are you even trying to say here? None of this makes sense. No there were never cows in the yard... It was a forest 11 years ago before it was a neighborhood. Please stop posting things in this thread unless they are related to the title, my post, or other active Panaeolus species in Georgia. If you want to talk about whatever it is you're even saying, do it elsewhere. Sorry to be harsh, but this site is huge and there is no need to be piggybacking someone else's thread just because you think it may pertain to your topics. Either start a thread of your own, or bring something of value to the discussion which hasn't already been said.
-------------------- Species List (Georgia): Psilocybe caerulescens/weilii, Psilocybe atlantis/galindoi, Psilocybe cubensis, Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, Psilocybe caerulipes, Psilocybe semilanceata, Psilocybe fagicola, Copelandia cyanescens, Panaeolus cinctulus, Panaeolus fimicola, Panaeolus olivaceus, Gymnopilus luteofolius, Gymnopilus aeruginosus, Gymnopilus junonius, Pluteus salicinus (Ohio): Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, Psilocybe caerulipes, Pluteus cyanopus, Pluteus salicinus sensu lato..., Panaeolus cinctulus, Gymnopilus luteus, Gymnopilus luteofolius, Gymnopilus junonius, Gymnopilus aeruginosus
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Hashfinger
Nippy Wiffle



Registered: 07/10/12
Posts: 4,775
Loc: Georgia
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: Active Panaeolus Species From North GA [Re: Hashfinger]
#18736864 - 08/21/13 10:48 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Found two large pans in our grass heap. I think they're regular ol' cinctulus.
   
In a different yard than the one I found supposed fimicola, I found this medium sized specimen. Kind of looks like a cross between the tiny fimicola and the larger cinctulus from the grass pile. The yard is much more fertilized and green than the fimicola lawn, and the hay pile is right downhill from the well-fertilized one. I'm waiting for the cap to hygrophanate a little, then I'll post another pic.
 
-------------------- Species List (Georgia): Psilocybe caerulescens/weilii, Psilocybe atlantis/galindoi, Psilocybe cubensis, Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, Psilocybe caerulipes, Psilocybe semilanceata, Psilocybe fagicola, Copelandia cyanescens, Panaeolus cinctulus, Panaeolus fimicola, Panaeolus olivaceus, Gymnopilus luteofolius, Gymnopilus aeruginosus, Gymnopilus junonius, Pluteus salicinus (Ohio): Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, Psilocybe caerulipes, Pluteus cyanopus, Pluteus salicinus sensu lato..., Panaeolus cinctulus, Gymnopilus luteus, Gymnopilus luteofolius, Gymnopilus junonius, Gymnopilus aeruginosus
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knarkkorven
Entheoholic


Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 1,707
Loc: Sweden
Last seen: 4 days, 6 hours
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Re: Active Panaeolus Species From North GA [Re: Byrain]
#18737486 - 08/21/13 01:24 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Byrain said:
Quote:
knarkkorven said: P. fimicola is a dung mushroom.
Proof?
From Gerhardt's book:
Quote:
location: On rather weak fertilized soils, in contrast to other species not directly on dung, but most in the edge region of dunghill, to grassy places on fields. Pastures, turf culture, and Parkán lay-in gardens, sociable growing.
Ok, here's the contrast:
fimi in latin translates to excrements, fimus = dung. So fimicola = the dung strain.
In Swedish it's called dyngbroking (= dung panaeolus) and this is also true for a number of other languages like Polish: Kołpaczek koprofilny (=coprophilic panaeolus) and Finnish: Lantakirjoheltta (= dung panaeolus)..
So I would think that well manured grass (like pastures) and dung is the habit were we would most likely find this mushroom. But Gerhardts description about weak soils sounds like the total opposite of what a dunglover would want. Perhaps Panaeolus ater or Panaeolus obliquoporus are separate species from the current Panaeolus fimicola after all? P. ater (ater=black) often have names with spring, indicationg this being an early species, I don't know about fimicola. Perhaps there is other indications. Does anyone know how come they were merged? By DNA comparison, mating mycelia or just common microscopical features?
Hashfinger:
From the Mushroom Observer description you linked:
Quote:
Mainly European, uncommon but widespread species; outside Europe apparently rare.
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NGH
Stranger


Registered: 07/13/13
Posts: 115
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Re: Active Panaeolus Species From North GA [Re: knarkkorven]
#18737501 - 08/21/13 01:29 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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These are growing in zoysia as well. I have seen several but they are very small. Would you not need a bunch to do get affects that most are seeking?
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: Active Panaeolus Species From North GA [Re: knarkkorven]
#18737579 - 08/21/13 01:49 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I wouldn't put so much emphasis on the names translation, but Gerhardt covers P. fimicola vs. P. ater.
Quote:
Als J.E.LANGE (1940) P. fimicola var. ater beschrieb, hat er die Pleurozystiden nicht erwähnt. Erst KÜHNER & ROMAGNESI (1953) suggerieren deren Vorkommen („Espece presentant sur le faces de lam. de nombreuses chrysozystides..."), als sie diese Varietät zur Art erheben und fimicola als getrennte Spezies (ohne Chrysozystiden) behandeln. Es gibt keine Beweise dafür, daß LANGE auch so dachte, denn er verschlüsselt die beiden Taxa ausschließlich nach Hutfarbe und Größe („Cap fuligi-nous" bzw. „Cap almost black, rather small"). Hingegen beschreibt er bei seiner Hauptart fimicola (in Flora Agaricina Danica, Teil 4, p. 87) neben den üblichen flaschenförmigen Cheilozystiden auch andere: „some few even vesiculose-obovate". Dies könnte ein Hinweis auf die Sulphidien sein. Ich bin deshalb davon überzeugt, daß LANGES var. ater tatsächlich nur eine Farbvariante der farblich veränderlichen fimicola ist und ihr somit keine taxonomische Bedeutung zukommt.
With google translate:
Quote:
As JELANGE (1940) P. ater var fimicola described, has He does not mention the pleurocystidia. Only KUEHNER & Romagnesi (1953) suggest the presence of which ("Espece présentant sur le facet de lam. de nombreuses chrysozystides ... "), as they bring this variety to the nature and fimicola as separate species (without Chrysozystiden) treat. There is no evidence that even so LONG thought, because it encrypts the two taxa exclusively by hat color and size ("cap fuligi nous" or "Cap almost black, rather small "). contrast, he describes in its main type fimicola (in Flora Agaricina Danica, Part 4, p. 87) in addition to the usual bottle-shaped cheilocystidia other: "some few even vesiculose-obovate. "This could be a reference to the Be Sulphidien. I am therefore convinced that LONG var ater actually just a color variant of the color variable is fimicola and therefore you do not taxonomic significance.
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psylosymonreturns
aka Gym Sporrison



Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 13,948
Loc: Mos Eisley,
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: Active Panaeolus Species From North GA [Re: Byrain]
#18738168 - 08/21/13 03:34 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Look like either foes or lawn cinctulus to me. its just a total guessing game til the scope comes out though!
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Hashfinger
Nippy Wiffle



Registered: 07/10/12
Posts: 4,775
Loc: Georgia
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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There have been other confirmed (with microscopy) P. fimicola finds in GA.
-------------------- Species List (Georgia): Psilocybe caerulescens/weilii, Psilocybe atlantis/galindoi, Psilocybe cubensis, Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, Psilocybe caerulipes, Psilocybe semilanceata, Psilocybe fagicola, Copelandia cyanescens, Panaeolus cinctulus, Panaeolus fimicola, Panaeolus olivaceus, Gymnopilus luteofolius, Gymnopilus aeruginosus, Gymnopilus junonius, Pluteus salicinus (Ohio): Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, Psilocybe caerulipes, Pluteus cyanopus, Pluteus salicinus sensu lato..., Panaeolus cinctulus, Gymnopilus luteus, Gymnopilus luteofolius, Gymnopilus junonius, Gymnopilus aeruginosus
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