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Anonymous

america's ties to evil regimes around the world.
    #1873711 - 09/02/03 11:02 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

i've heard people say this alot, but never anything specific.

i've heard a little about this sort of thing... mostly cold war meddlings... but no real modern ties to 'evil regimes'. maybe it's the corporate media brainwashing me...


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: america's ties to evil regimes around the world. [Re: ]
    #1873771 - 09/02/03 11:50 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

'cold war meddlings'?

millions of dead would be sad to hear
you trivialize their lives in such a manner.

chile
argentina
nicuaragua
indonesia
china
israel

those are just the ones off the top of me noggin....


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: america's ties to evil regimes around the world. [Re: afoaf]
    #1873785 - 09/02/03 11:59 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

who could forget turkey.

one of our largest arms clients.

most of those arms were knowingly
used to exterminate the kurds.

but damn, we're happy to have them
help us dethrone a man vilified for no
less than the same atrocities...

edit: I should note a distinction, some of
these are evil regimes that we have
ties to, some are evil regimes that we
put in place after ousting otherwise
democratically elected governments
as in the case of chile and argentina.


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Edited by afoaf (09/02/03 12:08 PM)


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OfflinePedM
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Re: america's ties to evil regimes around the world. [Re: afoaf]
    #1873828 - 09/02/03 12:31 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Saddam's regime was installed, armed, disarmed, and uninstalled by none other than the United States of America. The Shah in Iran as well, I believe. Osama's funding and training came from the USA to fight Soviets. Hell, that's just the Middle East. Have a look at South America too.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: america's ties to evil regimes around the world. [Re: Ped]
    #1873844 - 09/02/03 12:46 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Good book on this is "A problem from hell, America and the age of Genocide" by Samantha Power.


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: america's ties to evil regimes around the world. [Re: ]
    #1873853 - 09/02/03 12:51 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

but no real modern ties to 'evil regimes'.



If by "modern" you mean post-cold war, then none of the classic examples apply of those fascist regimes that the U.S. supported only because they were anti-communist.

The worst modern examples I can think of are Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Turkey and Israel could be candidates also, but they aren't that bad compared to many of their neighbours.


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Anonymous

Re: america's ties to evil regimes around the world. [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1873877 - 09/02/03 01:08 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

again, rhizoid comes through with a fair and accurate answer.


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Anonymous

Re: america's ties to evil regimes around the world. [Re: Ped]
    #1873878 - 09/02/03 01:09 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

america did not install either hussein or the shah.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: america's ties to evil regimes around the world. [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1873949 - 09/02/03 01:44 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Indonesia?

Nicaragua?


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: america's ties to evil regimes around the world. [Re: ]
    #1873959 - 09/02/03 01:51 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

directly installed, no.

but the us hasn't directly installed anyone, technically.

indirectly and covertly supported via cia and other
agencies, most definitely.


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Offlineshakta
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Re: america's ties to evil regimes around the world. [Re: afoaf]
    #1873974 - 09/02/03 01:59 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Do you not see a big difference between that and claiming that the US has gone to war to install all of these 'evil' regimes?


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Anonymous

Re: america's ties to evil regimes around the world. [Re: afoaf]
    #1873978 - 09/02/03 02:02 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

in the case of iraq and iran, not even that.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: america's ties to evil regimes around the world. [Re: shakta]
    #1874417 - 09/02/03 04:27 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Do you not see a big difference between that and claiming that the US has gone to war to install all of these 'evil' regimes?

It's very rare that you need to "go to war" to install a regime. Massive amounts of money, arms and economic support can work wonders. Would Saddam have lasted decades with no american support?


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Offlineshakta
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Re: america's ties to evil regimes around the world. [Re: Xlea321]
    #1874433 - 09/02/03 04:34 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Who knows Alex. I don't know if he would have been able to beat Iran on his own or not. At that point Saddam was seen as the lesser of two evils. We did not know he was going to turn into a freak. I think this can be said for most of the actions the US has taken over the years. It is usually the lesser of two evils. Sometimes it works out well, and sometimes it doesn't.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: america's ties to evil regimes around the world. [Re: shakta]
    #1874449 - 09/02/03 04:40 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
Who knows Alex. I don't know if he would have been able to beat Iran on his own or not. At that point Saddam was seen as the lesser of two evils. We did not know he was going to turn into a freak.



He never "turned into" a freak. He was a monster all along, and we knew it from the get-go. We just went to war with him when it became no longer convenient to have him on our side.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: america's ties to evil regimes around the world. [Re: shakta]
    #1874460 - 09/02/03 04:43 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

It is usually the lesser of two evils.

It's usually whichever evil is more likely to obey washington. If Saddam had kept obeying Washington while slaughtering and gassing do you seriously doubt he would still be in power today?


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Offlineshakta
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Re: america's ties to evil regimes around the world. [Re: Xlea321]
    #1874469 - 09/02/03 04:46 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

If he had obeyed the UN, he wouldn't have had anything to gas anyone with anyway. I am not saying the US does these things out of the goodness of our hearts. I agree with your assessment. We look out for our own interests like most countries.

I also think this practice will not happen as much as it used to, specifically during the Cold War. We are learning that the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend.


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Anonymous

Re: america's ties to evil regimes around the world. [Re: shakta]
    #1874475 - 09/02/03 04:47 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

shakta i think you need to get some of your facts straight.

they're gonna jump on you for this one...

"If he had obeyed the UN, he wouldn't have had anything to gas anyone with anyway."


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Offlineshakta
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Re: america's ties to evil regimes around the world. [Re: ]
    #1874482 - 09/02/03 04:49 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I was being a smart ass. Had he let the inspectors DO THEIR JOBS COMPLETELY, and gotten rid of his weapons, and proved it, he would not be in the position he is now. So I was showing Alex how his argument was flawed. :smile:

I was responding to Alex's question. I am not saying he never would have had the weapons to begin with.


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Anonymous

Re: america's ties to evil regimes around the world. [Re: shakta]
    #1874486 - 09/02/03 04:50 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

oook


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