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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: pronoia, paranoia [Re: RockyRaccoon]
    #18734313 - 08/20/13 09:01 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Interestingly enough, the ancient Greek word for "Divine Providence", the will of God (in the pre-Christian sense), was also pronoia. Wikipedia claims that pronoia in the context of psychology was coined in 1982. It makes me wonder how long the term "paranoia" has been in use.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleRockyRaccoon
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Re: pronoia, paranoia [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #18734337 - 08/20/13 09:04 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Interestingly enough, the ancient Greek word for "Divine Providence", the will of God (in the Platonic, not Christian sense), was also pronoia. Wikipedia claims that pronoia in the context of psychology was coined in 1982. It makes me wonder how long the term "paranoia" has been in use.




That is interesting. Maybe that was all set up on wikipedia to favor me personally :crazy:

:lol:         


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: pronoia, paranoia [Re: RockyRaccoon]
    #18734351 - 08/20/13 09:06 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Damn, things get really hairy when you try to tease apart the semantic roots of ancient Greek words. I just found this:

Quote:

PRONOIA (or Pronoea) was an Okeanid nymph of Mount Parnassos in Phokis (central Greece). She was the wife of the Titan Prometheus and, as her name suggests, the goddess of foresight. Prometheus' wife was also named Hesione and Asia.

Pronoia was closely identified with the goddess Athena who, according to several ancient writers, was worshipped as Athena Pronoia at Delphoi. As an Okeanid she also resembles Athena's mother Metis.




Okay, now I'm just confused. :dawerp:


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Enlil said:
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OfflineJesusIsLord
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Re: pronoia, paranoia [Re: RockyRaccoon]
    #18734355 - 08/20/13 09:07 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

etymology time now is it? :aweohyou:

ma favorite word is anamnesis :datass:


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And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: pronoia, paranoia [Re: JesusIsLord]
    #18734373 - 08/20/13 09:10 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Damn, now that is one fancy word for a mundane triviality. Into the lexicon it goes!

Today the anamnesis of my academic records was severely hampered by a glitch in the system. :shake:


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Enlil said:
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OfflineJesusIsLord
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Re: pronoia, paranoia [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #18734386 - 08/20/13 09:12 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Damn, now that is one fancy word for a mundane triviality. Into the lexicon it goes!

Today the anamnesis of my academic records was severely hampered by a glitch in the system. :shake:




Tis, tis indeed. English is awesome like that, once they covered the basics they elaborated so nerds such as ourselves could feel superior to the lesser plebs without them knowing :raisemyglass:

I wonder though, there seems to be a deeper meaning to the word. It is attempting to intertwine the ideas of remembering from a past self as rediscovering or learning in the current self. It also seems to have some ties to Christianity.

All I know is I learned it from Philip K. Dick's Exegesis. That man was...extremely interesting to read.


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And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.


Edited by JesusIsLord (08/20/13 09:18 PM)


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: pronoia, paranoia [Re: JesusIsLord]
    #18734402 - 08/20/13 09:15 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Paranoia is not correlated with a mythological figure.

One should be invented. :hotidea:


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Enlil said:
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OfflineJesusIsLord
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Re: pronoia, paranoia [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #18734418 - 08/20/13 09:19 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Paranoia is not correlated with a mythological figure.

One should be invented. :hotidea:



teh krakken :taco:

er teh uber cop :cop:


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And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: pronoia, paranoia [Re: JesusIsLord]
    #18734428 - 08/20/13 09:22 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Oh yeah, Paranoia is definitely a cop... good thinking. I was thinking of a creeper in the bushes on the side of the road, but a cop in the bushes? :awedisgust:

It should also fit in with the rest of Greek mythology, though. It's gotta have an origin story. Perhaps the ashes of Icarus' wings got caught in a glass of wine.


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Enlil said:
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OfflineJesusIsLord
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Re: pronoia, paranoia [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #18734449 - 08/20/13 09:27 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Oh yeah, Paranoia is definitely a cop... good thinking. I was thinking of a creeper in the bushes on the side of the road, but a cop in the bushes? :awedisgust:

It should also fit in with the rest of Greek mythology, though. It's gotta have an origin story. Perhaps the ashes of Icarus' wings got caught in a glass of wine.



you on a whole nother level of mythology knowledge than me. maybe teh cyclops from the odyssey. i'm just adapting not creatin tho :shrug:

call him teh cycops :cop:

he be all, hey, imma eatchu.  :fatbastard:

what's wrong, you perrnoid?


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And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.


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InvisibleTalib

Registered: 06/10/13
Posts: 195
Re: pronoia, paranoia [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #18734461 - 08/20/13 09:30 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Do you think that pronoia is "good" compared to paranoia which is "bad"? Do you think there is such a thing as a pronoid schizophrenic? Do pronoia and paranoia overlap, or are they unrelated except in theory? Do you think that in times of scarcity, paranoia might overtake pronoia as the more practical/adaptive form of delusion, leading to the quarantine in asylums of people crazy enough to think that everything is great and only getting better?




Robert Anton Wilson once said that most everything good we have in the world was created, designed, inspired, conjured, engineered, built, and summoned by the minds of optimists.

All pessimists do is sit around and bitch all day.

As for the delusion element, there does seem to be a vast conspiracy for your well-being. Believing that is a major first step towards actualizing it. "Positive thinking" doesn't magnetize one towards an endless stream of success, nor does it fix the world, but those people "afflicted" with pronoia make damn good philanthropists.

Emergency Message from Raja Ram:



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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: pronoia, paranoia [Re: JesusIsLord]
    #18734487 - 08/20/13 09:35 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Nahh, I'm just spitballin'. This would be easier if I knew more about mythology. :lol:

Anyway, the poisoned wine grows moldy (against all common sense). Dionysus dumps the wine, the mold on the ground becomes Paranoia, an abandoned stygian spirit. He rapes Pronoia and the child of their union is...

George W. Bush.


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Enlil said:
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OfflineJesusIsLord
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Re: pronoia, paranoia [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #18734509 - 08/20/13 09:39 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Nahh, I'm just spitballin'. This would be easier if I knew more about mythology. :lol:

Anyway, the poisoned wine grows moldy (against all common sense). Dionysus dumps the wine, the mold on the ground becomes Paranoia, an abandoned stygian spirit. He rapes Pronoia and the child of their union is...

George W. Bush.



I like it :lol:


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And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.


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InvisibleRockyRaccoon
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Re: pronoia, paranoia [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #18734522 - 08/20/13 09:42 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Nahh, I'm just spitballin'. This would be easier if I knew more about mythology. :lol:

Anyway, the poisoned wine grows moldy (against all common sense). Dionysus dumps the wine, the mold on the ground becomes Paranoia, an abandoned stygian spirit. He rapes Pronoia and the child of their union is...

George W. Bush.




I'm going to college, and my major is philosophy. I'm sure to learn more about greek mythology :awesome:


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OfflineLed Zeppelin
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Re: pronoia, paranoia [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #18734716 - 08/20/13 10:21 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
I think it's interesting that teamkiller made the connection to narcissism, because narcissism is well-valued in the business world. It could be that in this time of tremendous surplus, pronoiac states enable "good humor" and "confidence" that would in times of scarcity amount to dereliction of responsibility and a total lack of realism.




the best business men are sociopaths


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InvisibleSheekle
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Re: pronoia, paranoia [Re: Led Zeppelin]
    #18734780 - 08/20/13 10:31 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

led zeppelin make a thread apologizing for that time u stole that guys cash when he was ODing


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Offlineteamkiller
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Re: pronoia, paranoia [Re: Sheekle]
    #18735673 - 08/21/13 03:27 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Their "mood" would oscillate between pronoia and paranoia. In the pronoiac state, they were supportive of me; they were trying to solve my problems for me and they loved me dearly. But this eventually violated my sense of self-determination, because they weren't allowing me any imperfections or mistakes. I began to feel alienated, and they became hostile, jeering, tearing me down. At first I was crushed, but when I stopped reacting emotionally to their attacks, they returned to the cloyingly congratulatory mood of pronoia, and the cycle would just go on like that.




I've had states like that too.  I think its a sensory interface to the subconscious.  People truely are constantly judging us, and positively and negatively re-enforcing our behavior on a moment by moment basis.  We do modify our actions and send signals back. 
I don't know if what you're describing in particular was a delusional state, but for myself it was an honest self examination of some of the things going on in the background of my brain.


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InvisibleLegend
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Re: pronoia, paranoia [Re: teamkiller]
    #18735705 - 08/21/13 03:52 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I think paranoia is thrown around too much. I don't think normal paranoia is even paranoia.

Same with pronoia. If you've ever met a truly paranoid individual you'd know it can be extreme.

I think there is a point where it becomes a problem, whether your have the negative or positive symptoms.

I think most people are merely confused as to what is "normal" teh human mind is always doing thangs.


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InvisibleRockyRaccoon
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Re: pronoia, paranoia [Re: Sheekle]
    #18736432 - 08/21/13 08:41 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Sheekle said:
led zeppelin make a thread apologizing for that time u stole that guys cash when he was ODing




:smug:


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: pronoia, paranoia [Re: teamkiller]
    #18736592 - 08/21/13 09:33 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

teamkiller said:
Quote:

Their "mood" would oscillate between pronoia and paranoia. In the pronoiac state, they were supportive of me; they were trying to solve my problems for me and they loved me dearly. But this eventually violated my sense of self-determination, because they weren't allowing me any imperfections or mistakes. I began to feel alienated, and they became hostile, jeering, tearing me down. At first I was crushed, but when I stopped reacting emotionally to their attacks, they returned to the cloyingly congratulatory mood of pronoia, and the cycle would just go on like that.




I've had states like that too.  I think its a sensory interface to the subconscious.  People truely are constantly judging us, and positively and negatively re-enforcing our behavior on a moment by moment basis.  We do modify our actions and send signals back. 
I don't know if what you're describing in particular was a delusional state, but for myself it was an honest self examination of some of the things going on in the background of my brain.




There was no honesty, I heard the voices as if they were real, they addressed me as a separate person and for several hours I honestly thought they were my friends' voices, and I reacted to them thinking they were real. I know what that normally gets called and it's not "honest self-examination". Cute, though.


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