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Offlineressa69
Stranger
Registered: 07/15/13
Posts: 143
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Comparisons [Re: slacknsurf420]
    #18733354 - 08/20/13 05:47 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

slacknsurf420 said:
My go-to level 5 was on smoked 2C-X and cannabis.

Went straight into level 5 in minutes, completely different universe with complete motor function. Absolutely fucking astonishing experience, and long enough to figure out everything.

I know salvia and DMT are similar in the aspect that you destined to lie down and fly into the supernovae from there

But the 2C-X which is related to cactus and amphetamines, is very physical and very very long in comparison. I believe it be a more fleshed out experience. It is certainly more dangerous.

I have had very good experiences with mushrooms and I have had those level 5 moments but the drug swoons and sways, you will be in places like shulgins +++ and then you will be in places where you kind of wish that time you wanted to wish away to come back again lol




This is the kind of discussion worth having.

Yes, Shulgin does have a scale, and Shulgin is a very very intelligent man. If you actually sat down with him to talk about his experience and the chemistry involved with these things, he would rave about how UNIQUE they are and would not dare include salvorin A in TIHKAL.

I get your point. In most places, Salvia is easy to get and does its job well.

But what does level 5 really mean? For most, I think it's all about what is at stake. Sobbing for the sake of beauty and the unbelievable feelings embracing your inner person reborn through a lysergic haze is what defines an experience, not whether you speak to machine elves and come out of it confused, unable to recall what happened.

That's my two cents.


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OfflineLysergic_Milkman
Dr. Fist
Male

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 1,676
Loc: ATL
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Comparisons [Re: ressa69]
    #18733502 - 08/20/13 06:22 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I don't think that's fair to the DMT experience lol. It's a classical psychedelc and and entheogen, but I see your point, and I agree.
Salvia, on the other hand, is hardly a psychedelic and not at all an entheogen. It does not force one to observe their inner-most thoughts and being, but it's not impossible for that to happen--it's just unreliable in that regard. You are just as likely to turn into a hysterical  ferris-wheel as you are to discover the meaning of the universe as you are to be plunged into a vortex of hell for a subjective eternity. It's something different every time :laugh:


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Offlineressa69
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Registered: 07/15/13
Posts: 143
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Comparisons [Re: Lysergic_Milkman]
    #18733560 - 08/20/13 06:32 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not among the LSD worshipers around here, I was giving an off the cuff example. The closest thing salvia was for me was getting put under for surgery, but waking up very quickly and not ever going totally out of it.


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Offlinebalercia79
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Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/09/13
Posts: 26
Loc: North Carolina
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
Re: Comparisons [Re: spiritualseeker21]
    #18733567 - 08/20/13 06:33 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

DMT. I'm very experienced with all the common psychedelics but have only recently been turned on to DMT. And I don't give that answer because it's still new and novel to me but because nothing comes even remotely close to a DMT breakthrough. The only way I can imagine tripping harder is a near death experience. Or actually dying. And there are some who claim that your body releases DMT when you die (when you're born, when you dream, and when you die).


--------------------
-Why? Why not?


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Offlinespiritualseeker21
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Registered: 08/18/13
Posts: 6
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Comparisons [Re: balercia79]
    #18739960 - 08/21/13 09:39 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

'Or actually dying. And there are some who claim that your body releases DMT when you die (when you're born, when you dream, and when you die).'

very interesting thing! according to some sources, in slow-wave sleep, deep meditation, death and very powerful but silent breakthrough the brain release extreme delta waves. And in that view, would be interesting thing to make a map of natural waves of the brain, states of mind/consciousness and the drug that release more that wave, therefore, that state.


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Offlineressa69
Stranger
Registered: 07/15/13
Posts: 143
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Comparisons [Re: spiritualseeker21]
    #18740025 - 08/21/13 09:57 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

spiritualseeker21 said:
'Or actually dying. And there are some who claim that your body releases DMT when you die (when you're born, when you dream, and when you die).'

very interesting thing! according to some sources, in slow-wave sleep, deep meditation, death and very powerful but silent breakthrough the brain release extreme delta waves. And in that view, would be interesting thing to make a map of natural waves of the brain, states of mind/consciousness and the drug that release more that wave, therefore, that state.




If my dreams were like the DMT experience, I would never fall asleep.


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Offlinespiritualseeker21
Stranger
Registered: 08/18/13
Posts: 6
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Comparisons [Re: ressa69]
    #18740564 - 08/22/13 12:50 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I dont have too much experience with DMT but it seems to me that DMT is more like a explosion of wild blissful perceptions, feelings and rapid insights then a extreme stillness.

You are[the person experiencing] so still that is unaware of external world(the definition of level 5 'voidness' experience, void of any ego, conception and perception of the external world ).

Like I say, some say that through drugs that stimulate certain brain chemistry/state, certain states of mind/consciousness can be found(but in that case will be the cessation most brain stimuli)


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Offlineslacknsurf420
Nebula
Male
Registered: 07/02/13
Posts: 113
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
Re: Comparisons [Re: ressa69]
    #18983184 - 10/15/13 08:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ressa69 said:
Quote:

slacknsurf420 said:
My go-to level 5 was on smoked 2C-X and cannabis.

Went straight into level 5 in minutes, completely different universe with complete motor function. Absolutely fucking astonishing experience, and long enough to figure out everything.

I know salvia and DMT are similar in the aspect that you destined to lie down and fly into the supernovae from there

But the 2C-X which is related to cactus and amphetamines, is very physical and very very long in comparison. I believe it be a more fleshed out experience. It is certainly more dangerous.

I have had very good experiences with mushrooms and I have had those level 5 moments but the drug swoons and sways, you will be in places like shulgins +++ and then you will be in places where you kind of wish that time you wanted to wish away to come back again lol




This is the kind of discussion worth having.

Yes, Shulgin does have a scale, and Shulgin is a very very intelligent man. If you actually sat down with him to talk about his experience and the chemistry involved with these things, he would rave about how UNIQUE they are and would not dare include salvorin A in TIHKAL.

I get your point. In most places, Salvia is easy to get and does its job well.

But what does level 5 really mean? For most, I think it's all about what is at stake. Sobbing for the sake of beauty and the unbelievable feelings embracing your inner person reborn through a lysergic haze is what defines an experience, not whether you speak to machine elves and come out of it confused, unable to recall what happened.

That's my two cents.




This is two months later, but this kind of topic always holds my attention

Level 5, if it is the end of the scale, is just that, the best of the best.

Anyone with a level 5 though, can pick one of those experiences, and call it the best, the secret 6th.

Since you can't have more than one best experience, it won't be on the scale, but at least we can justify why it's beyond our 1-5 scale. Tripping for years you will always get 1-5 experiences, even if we get frustrated because we don't see the fives, there's always hope.

Beyond the five is so far unlike our normal lives, you would know obliquely where and when you are and continue with the trip - or be carried on.

I like Shulgin's example, because at +++ he specifically states the point as which you can not really escape, be it in a good way or a false method. sometimes I get sucked into an experience that dissolves me and it's +++ but it's uninhabitable, othertimes it's +++ and I still aim for the ++++

There are good trips and bad trips

Really though, I don't think DMT or Salvia are long enough in duration to fully break the barrier that establishes a "best trip in my life"

LSD, 2C-X, Mushrooms, and Peyote would be the most likely contenders

Salvia and DMT are short and serene moments, and in a flash you can learn all you need to know, but do they satisfy the gradual come and go, the rise and descent, of traditional, medicinal, psychedelics? I think not.

Life is long enough that I just don't think the short and sweet method is good enough to make a complete breakthrough, where you can fully accept and let go of a spiritual encounter. A whole day should do, life survives by day and night.


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InvisibleMystiqueMushroom

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 4,737
Loc: PNW
Re: Comparisons [Re: slacknsurf420]
    #18983844 - 10/15/13 10:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

OP the answer is DMT, it's the answer to everything.

How do we dream?

What do you want for breakfast?
DMT!


--------------------
https://youtu.be/np5Oi1dyO1k


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