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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
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Accidental Shooting
    #18724279 - 08/18/13 07:08 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I can state for the record that the possibility of me ever accidentally shooting someone is very close to zero as I do not own or handle guns.

That being said, how can a person who 'accidentally' shoots another bear no responsibility and oftentimes get off Scott-free?

When growing up my high school football coach was hunting in the woods and was 'accidentally' mistaken for a deer wearing bright orange and shot to death. A while back some famous rapper 'accidentally' shot his chauffeur to death while driving in a car. Acquitted - really?

I don't get how these can be non-crimes even if there was no intent. Where is the responsibility?


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Accidental Shooting [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #18724492 - 08/18/13 08:00 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I can state for the record that the possibility of me ever accidentally shooting someone is very close to zero as I do not own or handle guns.

That being said, how can a person who 'accidentally' shoots another bear no responsibility and oftentimes get off Scott-free?

When growing up my high school football coach was hunting in the woods and was 'accidentally' mistaken for a deer wearing bright orange and shot to death. A while back some famous rapper 'accidentally' shot his chauffeur to death while driving in a car. Acquitted - really?

I don't get how these can be non-crimes even if there was no intent. Where is the responsibility?






I don't think they should be crimes if they are accidents.  That's what civil suits are for, not criminal penalties.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Accidental Shooting [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #18725805 - 08/19/13 02:13 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Tricky situation I was coincidentally thinking about this today... don't have a defined opinion on the matter. Blood feud maybe?


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Accidental Shooting [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18728403 - 08/19/13 04:08 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Negligence... manslaughter.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Accidental Shooting [Re: Rahz]
    #18728433 - 08/19/13 04:16 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

It is like US soldiers who go fully armed to other countries so that they can accidentally shoot civilians.


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OfflineMemories
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Re: Accidental Shooting [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #18728498 - 08/19/13 04:32 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

The point of legal repercussions like prison is to keep dangerous people away from society. Accidents happen, and there is no reason to waste resources on imprisoning someone who doesn't pose an unusually significant threat to society.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Accidental Shooting [Re: Memories]
    #18729545 - 08/19/13 08:17 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

That is a large part of my point: accidents don't 'just happen'.

'Friendly Fire' sounds all warm and loving even when there are dead bodies strewn about. There is no collateral damage unless damage was intended.


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Offlinedokunai
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Re: Accidental Shooting [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #18729623 - 08/19/13 08:32 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

There are two definitions here that may be helpful.  ND is negligent discharge.  Almost all accidental shootings and gun accidents are NDs even though people tend to think they will be ADs (accidental discharge).

So what's the difference between the two?  An ND is when the gun goes off because of something you did.  Common ones would range from "I didn't think it was loaded" (very obviously negligent)to some less common ones like the holster lip unintentionally pressing the trigger while re-holstering the gun.

An AD requires that the gun itself has a mechanical malfunction that causes it to fire.  For example, if a glock was sitting on a table not being touched, and an internal piece broke causing the bullet to be fired.  ADs are extremely uncommon.

I would tend to think that beyond those definitions, anyone doing something resulting in someone else getting shot was probably doing something negligent.  That's criminal negligence if someone gets hurt, so IMO, they should face criminal charges in most cases.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Accidental Shooting [Re: dokunai]
    #18729923 - 08/19/13 09:38 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Those are some vaguely useful legal terms, but speaking as a rule of thumb the law and philosophy don't mix. Personally I could only comment on a case by case basis and even then I've heard some which I just wouldn't know what to do about as a DA


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Accidental Shooting [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18730208 - 08/19/13 10:33 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Dick Cheney shooting his good friend in the face and heart while bird hunting.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Accidental Shooting [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #18730436 - 08/19/13 11:33 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Dick Cheney shooting his good friend in the face and heart while bird hunting.





Why should he be charged when the victim doesn't want him charged?  When the state brings to bear its gunmen against you, there should at least be a clear victim who wants redress.  I don't think its appropriate for the state to put itself in that place contrary to the wishes of the victim.

Same thing with the domestic violence prosecutions that they wage without the consent of the victim.  Idiots beat on each other, then both get prosecuted, then they do it again.  Why is this a criminal matter?


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Accidental Shooting [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #18730592 - 08/20/13 12:44 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Dick Cheney shooting his good friend in the face and heart while bird hunting.




Definitely agree with John on this one, not sure if the victim had died. How does one prove they shot someone on accident and not on purpose? Think Dickey would be fucked

Well if I ever have to kill someone will keep this whole thing in mind "sorry officer I didn't mean to kill him, thought he was someone else, total accident dude"


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Accidental Shooting [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18730605 - 08/20/13 12:49 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Let's try this one more way.

If ALL accidental shootings were considered indistinguishable from murder (the victim still ends up dead through no fault of their own), which is the MOST LIKELY outcome:

a. accidental shootings would decrease

b. accidental shootings would increase

c. accidental shootings would remain unaffected.

Be honest, now.


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InvisibleOeric McKenna
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Re: Accidental Shooting [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #18730629 - 08/20/13 12:59 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I think sometimes accidents literally do just happen though.
Ever do something accidentally and you feel really shitty and low because of it? Like, you dropped grannies favorite china?
Getting punished wouldn't make it go back in time and not occur. Chances are you'd not feel much better either with a punishment. Beating yourself up is already the worst.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Accidental Shooting [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #18730631 - 08/20/13 01:00 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

If you're suggesting that an accidental shooting carries the penalty of murder, they would decrease dramatically. And vise versa


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Accidental Shooting [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18730654 - 08/20/13 01:12 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)



I rest my case.


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Offlinedokunai
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Re: Accidental Shooting [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #18730679 - 08/20/13 01:31 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:


I rest my case.




Yes, clearly a fictional defesnse attorney should have the final word on this issue.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Accidental Shooting [Re: dokunai]
    #18730772 - 08/20/13 02:37 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

OC is not fictional


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InvisibleCyclohexylamine
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Re: Accidental Shooting [Re: johnm214]
    #18731046 - 08/20/13 06:19 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Dick Cheney shooting his good friend in the face and heart while bird hunting.





Why should he be charged when the victim doesn't want him charged?  When the state brings to bear its gunmen against you, there should at least be a clear victim who wants redress.  I don't think its appropriate for the state to put itself in that place contrary to the wishes of the victim.

Same thing with the domestic violence prosecutions that they wage without the consent of the victim.  Idiots beat on each other, then both get prosecuted, then they do it again.  Why is this a criminal matter?




I think it really depends on the situation though. I certainly know where you are coming from, but in the case of domestic violence disputes, sometimes the one at the receiving end of the violence is so broken that they don't want to lose their partner to jail even though their partner is abusing them.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Accidental Shooting [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #18731788 - 08/20/13 11:21 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Reminds me of a relationship I have with a certain mod... :strokebeard: :whip:


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