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OfflineSunnyD
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Re: Derisive letter sent to parents of autistic boy [Re: s240779]
    #18737160 - 08/21/13 12:06 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

That's fucking is messed up :nonono:

Her ass who wrote the letter needs euthanized! :gc:


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Offlineqman
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Re: Derisive letter sent to parents of autistic boy [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #18737169 - 08/21/13 12:08 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

qman said:
There is nothing more "offensive" than censorship, to have lawmakers decided what words can come out of my mouth a disgusting concept. 

What did the most fascist and oppressive governments in history also have on their law books?  Speech laws.



common limitations to free speech (that are also found in the United States):

-Sedition (advocating force as a way to change the government)
-Threats
-Defamation (libel and slander)
-False or misleading advertising
-Buffer zones around abortion clinics that prevent anti-abortion protesters from harassing patients and staff
-Quiet zones near hospitals or schools
-Municipal bylaws restricting the location, size, type, content, and display of signs, posters, objects, ads, etc.
-Profanity on public airwaves
-Publication refusal, censorship, and the right to edit enforced by news websites, online forums and blogs, newspapers, magazines, radio, and other media
-Company confidentiality policies (such as employees being prohibited from sharing trade secrets or talking to the media)
-Gag orders or publication bans in contracts, court cases, and settlements


I also heard that fascist governments had traffic laws--therefore, all laws that govern traffic are fascist.




The above has nothing to do with the "hate speech" laws in the Canadian court ruling, why are you changing the subject?


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InvisibleSalomon
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Re: Derisive letter sent to parents of autistic boy [Re: qman]
    #18737243 - 08/21/13 12:25 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

that letter was mean.



but i totes understand where she is coming from. many autistic children are very loud and shouty. but they can't help it. it's not like they try to be like that.


it can be difficult to deal with having people like that around. but to just straight up tell the parents f that kid that they should GTFO and kill their kid is pretty fucked. i mean if it's hard for you, just imagine how hard it is for the parents. they have to wake up knowing that thier life is dedicated to this kid with extreme disabilities, and that's a full time job and really makes life hard on it's own.


sticky situation. i just hope that this dosent progress beyond hurtful letters. we dont need to have a news story where an autistic kid is murdered or physically abused. or even attacks on thier house and property.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Derisive letter sent to parents of autistic boy [Re: qman] * 1
    #18737260 - 08/21/13 12:30 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

qman said:
There is nothing more "offensive" than censorship, to have lawmakers decided what words can come out of my mouth a disgusting concept. 

What did the most fascist and oppressive governments in history also have on their law books?  Speech laws.



common limitations to free speech (that are also found in the United States):

-Sedition (advocating force as a way to change the government)
-Threats
-Defamation (libel and slander)
-False or misleading advertising
-Buffer zones around abortion clinics that prevent anti-abortion protesters from harassing patients and staff
-Quiet zones near hospitals or schools
-Municipal bylaws restricting the location, size, type, content, and display of signs, posters, objects, ads, etc.
-Profanity on public airwaves
-Publication refusal, censorship, and the right to edit enforced by news websites, online forums and blogs, newspapers, magazines, radio, and other media
-Company confidentiality policies (such as employees being prohibited from sharing trade secrets or talking to the media)
-Gag orders or publication bans in contracts, court cases, and settlements


I also heard that fascist governments had traffic laws--therefore, all laws that govern traffic are fascist.




The above has nothing to do with the "hate speech" laws in the Canadian court ruling, why are you changing the subject?



Because it has everything to do with limitations towards freedom of speech. Your earlier post implied that not having absolute freedom of speech was the markings of a fascist government--I am merely showing you that many limitations to free speech are widely accepted; that limiting speech does not necessarily imply fascist or totalitarian states.

Freedom of speech is a misnomer--even in the USA.

Why should we tolerate hate speech when it directly undermines our human rights laws that protect vulnerable groups from discrimination? Why should we not add hate speech to the long list of tolerated censorship?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Derisive letter sent to parents of autistic boy [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 3
    #18737287 - 08/21/13 12:36 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Being intolerant of racism no different than being intolerant of religious beliefs.  The only reason the former is accepted is because the majority says so.  That is textbook tyranny of the majority, which is the precise problem that a constitution is meant to address.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Derisive letter sent to parents of autistic boy [Re: Enlil]
    #18737303 - 08/21/13 12:39 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Not sure what your point is.

In Canada, both racial and religious groups are equally relevant to hate speech laws.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Derisive letter sent to parents of autistic boy [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #18737313 - 08/21/13 12:42 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Yet it's perfectly acceptable to incite hatred toward racists


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OfflineOyBroop
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Re: Derisive letter sent to parents of autistic boy [Re: Enlil]
    #18737324 - 08/21/13 12:44 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

okay...

you guys took something fun and amusing and turned it into a pointless debate. good for you guys, good for you...


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Offlineqman
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Re: Derisive letter sent to parents of autistic boy [Re: Enlil]
    #18737328 - 08/21/13 12:45 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Yet it's perfectly acceptable to incite hatred toward racists




You didn't know, the double standard provision.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Derisive letter sent to parents of autistic boy [Re: Enlil]
    #18737362 - 08/21/13 12:52 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Yet it's perfectly acceptable to incite hatred toward racists



Is it now?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Derisive letter sent to parents of autistic boy [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #18737442 - 08/21/13 01:10 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Apparently to Canadians it is.  I see no difference between prejudice against racists and prejudice against Muslims.  Both have irrational belief systems.


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Derisive letter sent to parents of autistic boy [Re: Enlil]
    #18737468 - 08/21/13 01:16 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Hating them is one thing, advocating their murder is another.


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Re: Derisive letter sent to parents of autistic boy [Re: psi]
    #18737518 - 08/21/13 01:35 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

There's no room in my life for hating anyone.  Nonetheless, we all deserve to die.


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Derisive letter sent to parents of autistic boy [Re: Enlil]
    #18737810 - 08/21/13 02:30 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

We will all die regardless of deservedness so it becomes sort of a moot point whether we earned it or not. Having laws against saying that a particular person or group of people deserves to be murdered is something I'm totally fine with personally. Others would draw the line elsewhere.


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Re: Derisive letter sent to parents of autistic boy [Re: psi]
    #18737925 - 08/21/13 02:53 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Sounds like a slippery slope from there to a law against advocating for someone to be raped, or punched, or spit on, or robbed, or fired from their job...


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Derisive letter sent to parents of autistic boy [Re: Enlil]
    #18737975 - 08/21/13 03:02 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

"Slippery slope" is kind of a bullshit term IMO. Any law can be changed later, so any position can be called a slippery slope in whatever direction the speaker wants to suggest is undesirable.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Derisive letter sent to parents of autistic boy [Re: psi]
    #18738014 - 08/21/13 03:08 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Ah, but that's not true of constitutional law.  The slippery slope argument is about interpretation, not rewriting laws.  It's about the way an interpretation keeps moving more in one direction as society gets used to it, thus eroding the protections originally envisioned in the constitution.


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Derisive letter sent to parents of autistic boy [Re: Enlil]
    #18738065 - 08/21/13 03:17 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I was under the impression that the US Constitution had been amended numerous times. Are there some parts that can't possibly be changed by amendments or what?

Regarding interpretation, it seems like a lot depends on how precise the language of the law is. A law against calling for someone's murder is probably pretty sloppily written if it can be interpreted to mean that you can't say someone should be fired from their job.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Derisive letter sent to parents of autistic boy [Re: psi]
    #18738115 - 08/21/13 03:25 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

It's been amended 17 times in over 200 years.  It's very difficult to do, which is the point of a constitution.  Laws can be changed easily based on cultural trends, but a constitution is far harder to change and therefore protects against tyranny of the majority.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Derisive letter sent to parents of autistic boy [Re: psi]
    #18738124 - 08/21/13 03:27 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

You're missing the point.  If the constitution is interpreted to allow a law against recommending someone be murdered, what's to stop it from being interpreted to allow a law against recommending firing someone?


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