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Offlineeve69
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I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death.
    #18726129 - 08/19/13 06:25 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

It's bullshit. There is nobody who has experienced ego death before death. It started as a statement about feeling loss of personal identity. I suggest this is more a feeling or thought thing, and not an ego thing.

I hate all those smily empty headed beatniks who think because they are high and have no material goods that they are spiritual - closer to truth - or egoless. The most 'egoless' people I have ever talked to really get touchy when you question them.

Enough already. Ego death is a travesty, a mere subjective blip, and not a real state, spiritual or otherwise.

The people who experience the closest thing to ego death are sociopaths and borderline personalities.

Why continue to promote this bullshit concept?

The spiritual experience is based in love.


--------------------
...or something







Edited by eve69 (08/19/13 06:31 AM)


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Offlineviktor
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18726142 - 08/19/13 06:29 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Sociopaths aren't necessarily bad people. It's only when they are malicious.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Offlineeve69
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: viktor]
    #18726149 - 08/19/13 06:31 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Sociopaths aren't necessarily bad people. It's only when they are malicious.





Sharks aren't necessarily bad fish.


--------------------
...or something







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Offlineviktor
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18726165 - 08/19/13 06:36 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

True :thumbup:


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Offlineallseeingike
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: viktor]
    #18726204 - 08/19/13 06:50 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I think ego death can be experienced on high doses of lsd or mushrooms ect. Also i think high doses can very effectively mimic a dying experience. To me ego death is when YOU stop existing and become all but it can't last for ever you want survive like that


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Offlinecrkhd
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: viktor] * 2
    #18726205 - 08/19/13 06:50 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Ego death doesn't ever really happen except as the end of the biological form.


What is meant is total absorption into the Self. Then the ego "moves out of the way" in the mind, to mean that for a second the mind stops looking at itself and examining its own BS and looks at what is always here.

A simple way of seeing beyond the ego is to simply look outside of the body and feel the fact that it is very very old, much older than the physical body. From the POV of a floating perspective that sees all of these objects, yet is older than them all, there is little room for the worldly dross that occupies our minds. And most of that time that worldly dross does not serve any useful or real goal or gain whereas focusing on the huge expanse around and within us always gains and has real results.


Ego death often refers to Nirvikalpa Samadhi, a type of death/rebirth experience. It's a type of experience, a state of (non)consciousness which is very much real and very accessible to people in much the same way that puberty is accessible to people.

This is not to be confused with ego death as in the total cessation of the I-thought, nor with ego death as in the end of pride/arrogance/lust/greed/malicious desire though all of these are interlinked. It all depends how you define Ego, then that determines whether "ego death" makes sense or not.


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: allseeingike] * 3
    #18726246 - 08/19/13 07:11 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

allseeingike said:
I think ego death can be experienced on high doses of lsd or mushrooms ect. Also i think high doses can very effectively mimic a dying experience. To me ego death is when YOU stop existing and become all but it can't last for ever you want survive like that




How can you know what  effectively mimics a dying experience?  Have you ever died?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Icelander]
    #18726264 - 08/19/13 07:17 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I sometimes think completely letting go is what we are afraid of rather than death, and perhaps when you do it feels like something died although in reality things are the same, just your perception adjusted, and that's why people call it a death experience.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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Offlinehgmstl
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Grapefruit]
    #18726271 - 08/19/13 07:21 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Doesn't last. You seem to think it ought to.
Psychedelics are for self improvement, not to make you spiritual.
Don't be so angry. Seems you need a high dose yourself.


--------------------
Yo yo yo


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: hgmstl] * 1
    #18726296 - 08/19/13 07:35 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

:lol: I don't think any of those things.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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Offlinecrkhd
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Grapefruit]
    #18726297 - 08/19/13 07:35 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
I sometimes think completely letting go is what we are afraid of rather than death, and perhaps when you do it feels like something died although in reality things are the same, just your perception adjusted, and that's why people call it a death experience.





That's what it comes down to. Born free of attachments altogether, in some sense. Then we develop them. Then we either let them go, or not. But when we die, they are automatically severed. So ego death = severing those attachments while still alive.


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: crkhd]
    #18726301 - 08/19/13 07:38 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I don't think anyone ever severs all attachment.  Many attachments however do not serve one well at all and the less of those the better.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinestanski
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: hgmstl] * 1
    #18726302 - 08/19/13 07:39 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

What it comes down to is human language is really bad at describing the psychedelic experience and everything that goes along with it. This is why you get confusion whenever someone on a high dose tries to explain how it feels like they were stuck in another realm without any past history (there is just the you of now and you completely have forgotten there was ever another existence) for days/weeks/months/years, when the person knows it wasn't that long and yet something about our perception does make it happen.

I think its unfair to judge others experiences without knowing what it was like, and there will be a high % of people on a board like this that actually have experimented with higher doses of psychadelics. Yes you are going to read a lot about ego death and people are going to use it as a bragging right or whatever which i think is a bit annoying. However you can't take away what truly felt like it happened to us (for me it was a high dose of lsd+marijuana that made me feel like i went to another realm and at first started out as an out of body experience, observing myself from above laying down as well as going to other rooms in the house and then rocketing off into another alien realm somewhere either in my brain or in some other reality. The only thing that ever came similar was a high dose of salvia.). For others experiences like this might not be "life changing" but I can say it has definitely shifted the direction I have gone with my life, the type of work I choose for myself, the way I do work, and the way I deal with my everyday existence/the relationships of those around me. I am a much more sensitive, patient individual just from a couple of experiences, and I think this in the end is the beauty of psychedelics for myself even if now I am pretty scared to dabble at all with them anymore (at lower doses, I always have to confront real life issues from my past that I don't like confronting, at high doses, I am scared of my world being shattered again, wish I could just have a straight up fun connected with others feeling psychedelic experience without either of those possibilities coming to the forefront).


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: stanski]
    #18726330 - 08/19/13 07:49 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

great post:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinehuffinglue
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18726335 - 08/19/13 07:51 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Couldn't disagree more.


--------------------
I fucking hate grammer nazis! Yes, I can't spell. Yes, I don't have perfect grammer. I post from my phone and dont give a shit about people whose lifes are so boring they get off on putting people down for not having perfect fucking grammer, even though they know excactly what there saying.. Fuck You. It's just a ride mang...


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Icelander]
    #18726337 - 08/19/13 07:51 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I don't think anyone ever severs all attachment. 




I think maybe, maybe not, no way to tell although certainly rarely if so. Theoretically I think it is possible though, although it may be out of reach practically, the fear of it can hang over ones head regardless.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: huffinglue]
    #18726340 - 08/19/13 07:51 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

explain?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOld Pokey
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Icelander]
    #18726353 - 08/19/13 07:57 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
great post:thumbup:




agree :thumbup:


--------------------
It's all mythology...


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Offlinehuffinglue
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Icelander]
    #18726443 - 08/19/13 08:20 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Well, he says noone experiances ego death before death. How many dead people has he talked to to back this up? Also says it's more of a feeling, thought thing instead of a ego thing, wich I think are one in the same. I've been tripping and didn't know who I was and had no desire for food, water, shelter, cigs, weed, safety, or anything. Just experiancing everything that came my way. Is this not ego death?


--------------------
I fucking hate grammer nazis! Yes, I can't spell. Yes, I don't have perfect grammer. I post from my phone and dont give a shit about people whose lifes are so boring they get off on putting people down for not having perfect fucking grammer, even though they know excactly what there saying.. Fuck You. It's just a ride mang...


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18726495 - 08/19/13 08:34 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I think it's kinda foolish for people to try to compare their experiences with psychedelics with the experiences of other people. Every trip is unique, every person in unique. I don't really need labels like "ego death"


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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OfflineLysergicX7
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: nicechrisman]
    #18726802 - 08/19/13 09:58 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Ego dissolution is not a real state? Ummm.. im sorry, but obviously this makes no sense.

Ego death happens. Sometimes when you take mushrooms, sometimes after you almost die, whenever. But it does happen.

Your post is so contradictory.

Talk about love and then say "I hate all those smily empty headed beatniks who think because they are high and have no material goods that they are spiritual - closer to truth - or egoless. The most 'egoless' people I have ever talked to really get touchy when you question them."

Even though you can have ego death, it's not some permanent thing despite how all these people you "hate" so much think it is. Obviously, you aren't going to function very well in this world as "you" if you have no ego.


--------------------
“Everybody is fundamentally, the ultimate reality. Not god in the political kingly sense, but god in the sense of being the self – the deep down basic whatever there is. And you’re all that… only you’re pretending you’re not.” -Alan Watts

I think that in human evolution it has never been as necessary to have this substance LSD. It is just a tool to turn us into what we are supposed to be.”
― Albert Hofmann


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Offlineeve69
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: LysergicX7]
    #18726978 - 08/19/13 10:55 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I read everybodies' comments and I read many trip reports and the spiritual and visionary reports of people here and at Bluelight and the idiom 'ego death' has become a goal of many people.

But point out the ego in the first place.  Ego is not a thing with a form, unless it's our form. 

Rather, what people experience are greater/lesser states of awareness and various thought immersions. I have done my fair share of many drugs including acid about a hundred times and the other top delusionogens.  Good trips, great even, some with mystical stuff happening.  What I have experienced at times are profoundly deep joyous and loving spaces where I communed with nature and other people. 

Those spaces were of profound thought and feeling.  Maybe seperation between myself and others was diminished.  Maybe even no egoic ideation.  But at no time was there ever 'ego death.'

I object to the idiom's common place amongst trippers and spiritual beatniks.

I was taught by my Indian guru that when one gains a state of cosmic consciousness the ego doesn't shink but rather expands to encompass everything.


--------------------
...or something







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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: LysergicX7]
    #18727165 - 08/19/13 11:42 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LysergicX7 said:
Ego dissolution is not a real state? Ummm.. im sorry, but obviously this makes no sense.

Ego death happens. Sometimes when you take mushrooms, sometimes after you almost die, whenever. But it does happen.

Your post is so contradictory.

Talk about love and then say "I hate all those smily empty headed beatniks who think because they are high and have no material goods that they are spiritual - closer to truth - or egoless. The most 'egoless' people I have ever talked to really get touchy when you question them."

Even though you can have ego death, it's not some permanent thing despite how all these people you "hate" so much think it is. Obviously, you aren't going to function very well in this world as "you" if you have no ego.




 
I've been tripping for over 40 years, hundreds of trips and often with several people at a time and often on rather large doses.  I never saw someone behave like they had no ego.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineSse
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Icelander]
    #18727284 - 08/19/13 12:10 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

"An ego death is said to be characterized as the perceived loss of boundaries between self and environment, a sense of the loss of "control", the loss of the accustomed feeling of existing as a "personal agent", and lose "cognitive-association binding".[1] This "perceived loss of boundaries between self and environment"[citation needed] is said to be experienced through a sensation that one is the whole universe (and therefore there is no need to differentiate the "I" from the "universe") or by simply acknowledging the "I" does not exist."


I wonder what that would look like


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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Offlinehuffinglue
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18727286 - 08/19/13 12:10 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Your Indian guru was probably referring to understanding that you are the entire universe, therefor there is no reason for 'I', wich many people interperate as 'ego death'


--------------------
I fucking hate grammer nazis! Yes, I can't spell. Yes, I don't have perfect grammer. I post from my phone and dont give a shit about people whose lifes are so boring they get off on putting people down for not having perfect fucking grammer, even though they know excactly what there saying.. Fuck You. It's just a ride mang...


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Sse]
    #18727493 - 08/19/13 12:46 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sse said:
"An ego death is said to be characterized as the perceived loss of boundaries between self and environment, a sense of the loss of "control", the loss of the accustomed feeling of existing as a "personal agent", and lose "cognitive-association binding".[1] This "perceived loss of boundaries between self and environment"[citation needed] is said to be experienced through a sensation that one is the whole universe (and therefore there is no need to differentiate the "I" from the "universe") or by simply acknowledging the "I" does not exist."


I wonder what that would look like


 

Well it's likely then everyone experiences "ego death" from time to time.  I have many times.  Yet I always knew there was a I in there somewhere.  Even if it's an illusion.  I'll bet everyone experiences everything uniquely.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOld Pokey
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Icelander] * 2
    #18727550 - 08/19/13 01:00 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I just love these semantic arguments; taking an experience that is almost by definition beyond words and bickering interminably about word choice.

Technically the "ego" is a concept in psychology/philosophy, not a proven aspect of consciousness. Much like the God/not god conversations, without clearly defined terms it's all hen cackle.


--------------------
It's all mythology...


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OfflineSse
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Old Pokey]
    #18727713 - 08/19/13 01:48 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Die before you die, and you shall never die.
-The Sufis


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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Offlineresonant111
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Old Pokey]
    #18727778 - 08/19/13 02:07 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

HERE IS MY ESSAY ON THIS: :grin:

let's just forget about the semantics and think of what happens to one's rigid self-identity during a psychedelic experience (or any powerful life experience for that matter.)

the catalyst in these reactions is always CHANGE. psychedelics almost force change upon you, instantaneously. so any rigid conception of who/what you imagine yourself to be is totally shattered--the rigid self-identity simply cannot keep up with all of the CHANGE going on around it. The individual may often experience total CONTRADICTION of self with regards to these changes...ie, things that the rigid self-identity has "repressed" or labeled as "not me" suddenly come to the surface to be experienced. this experience of self-contradiction can absolutely shatter one's rigid sense of identity because it FORCES you to experience your WHOLE ENTIRE BEING....not merely the parts you've handpicked or imagined yourself to be.

so what's really happening here is great change and temporary contradiction of one's imagined sense of self. the term "ego death" is kind of over-dramatic because nothing really dies, especially not permanently...it's just that temporarily you are forced to confront aspects of yourself that you aren't comfortable with in the first place. so it doesn't feel like "you." it's unfamiliar. so alot of people erronerously think "i've died, i'm never coming back!" when in reality, what's actually happening is just change...and that rigid sense of self simply cannot handle the contradiction of it all so it tries to cling to the old patterns.

the key of course, is to let go of the old idea of self DURING this process of change and contradiction. it is the difference between struggling against the ocean, and swimming WITH the current. if you are able to swim with the current you end up with a sense of complete and total PEACE AND FREEDOM from your rigid idea of self. the game is over...the joke was on *you* all along! there's no permanent idea of self to hold onto in the first place. *you* can be anything, anytime...so just be!

it is very possible to experience this same thing by simply doing things that are UNFAMILIAR or outside of one's general idea of self. anything that causes a great shock to your rigid sense of identity will spark this so-called "ego death" experience.

The real lesson of all this change is simple: the only way to truly grow as a person is to step outside of your limited "idea of yourself" as much as possible. To fully challenge your own idea of self. To bend it and twist it and experience so many different possibilities that you finally come to the only sane realization: THERE IS NO RIGID, STATIC PERMANENT "ME." I CAN BE ANYTHING, ANYWHERE, ANYTIME. I *AM* CHANGE.

it's hard to put into practice though. that's why most of us stay trapped within our own ideas of who we are...rarely, if ever, seeing all the possibilities.


--------------------


Edited by resonant111 (08/21/13 11:20 AM)


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Offlinecbub
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: resonant111]
    #18728834 - 08/19/13 05:49 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

There may be a misconception of the term "ego-death".
No wonder, a death means a cessation of existence for us, but ego-death is more of a rebirth.
It's what the legend of the phoenix is talking about.

The new "I" prefers the new "I" to the old "I". I could write "ego" instead of "I", but "I" prefers english to latin, because that's what ego means and I can't see why all the fuss about the definition.
There is simply no existence in this experience without an "I" because then nobody would be having an experience.
Ego is therefor not only healthy, but absolutely necessary in order to even be able to wonder about itself, which is, by the way, about as effective as a fingertip trying to touch itself.
I can see why the ego-death experience people have an even stronger sense of "I", which makes it harder to break through to them. We have generally decided how things are, which makes us inevitably harder to convince of anything that goes against the paradigm that was infused into us. We are not in any way superior, but it is incredibly hard for us to watch the suffering of the people, because it would have been really cool if they just listened and believed and be relieved of suffering as they know it. But that's just not the way it works.
Therefor I not only understand your frustration, but also share it, for where the One is many, each one walks alone.


--------------------
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: cbub]
    #18728918 - 08/19/13 06:05 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)



--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18728992 - 08/19/13 06:23 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
I read everybodies' comments and I read many trip reports and the spiritual and visionary reports of people here and at Bluelight and the idiom 'ego death' has become a goal of many people.

But point out the ego in the first place.  Ego is not a thing with a form, unless it's our form. 

Rather, what people experience are greater/lesser states of awareness and various thought immersions. I have done my fair share of many drugs including acid about a hundred times and the other top delusionogens.  Good trips, great even, some with mystical stuff happening.  What I have experienced at times are profoundly deep joyous and loving spaces where I communed with nature and other people. 

Those spaces were of profound thought and feeling.  Maybe seperation between myself and others was diminished.  Maybe even no egoic ideation.  But at no time was there ever 'ego death.'

I object to the idiom's common place amongst trippers and spiritual beatniks.

I was taught by my Indian guru that when one gains a state of cosmic consciousness the ego doesn't shink but rather expands to encompass everything.



Then I don't know what to tell you. Perhaps you didn't take enough to get to those places, or perhaps it just isn't going to work for you. But I took roughly 5 grams of shrooms my first time, I literally dissolved completely. Ego dissolution is complete loss of seperation from self and other. The sensation that one is everything and vice versa. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death

The first line here on wiki says it best.


--------------------
“Everybody is fundamentally, the ultimate reality. Not god in the political kingly sense, but god in the sense of being the self – the deep down basic whatever there is. And you’re all that… only you’re pretending you’re not.” -Alan Watts

I think that in human evolution it has never been as necessary to have this substance LSD. It is just a tool to turn us into what we are supposed to be.”
― Albert Hofmann


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18731061 - 08/20/13 06:29 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
It's bullshit. There is nobody who has experienced ego death before death. It started as a statement about feeling loss of personal identity. I suggest this is more a feeling or thought thing, and not an ego thing.

I hate all those smily empty headed beatniks who think because they are high and have no material goods that they are spiritual - closer to truth - or egoless. The most 'egoless' people I have ever talked to really get touchy when you question them.

Enough already. Ego death is a travesty, a mere subjective blip, and not a real state, spiritual or otherwise.

The people who experience the closest thing to ego death are sociopaths and borderline personalities.

Why continue to promote this bullshit concept?

The spiritual experience is based in love.





Ego death is a real thing and can and does reveal deep spiritual truths to people. However, people confuse ego death with enlightenment and they are not the same thing. You are right that the spiritual path is based in love, not loss of identity.


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Offlineeve69
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: LysergicX7]
    #18731067 - 08/20/13 06:32 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LysergicX7 said:
Quote:

eve69 said:
I read everybodies' comments and I read many trip reports and the spiritual and visionary reports of people here and at Bluelight and the idiom 'ego death' has become a goal of many people.

But point out the ego in the first place.  Ego is not a thing with a form, unless it's our form. 

Rather, what people experience are greater/lesser states of awareness and various thought immersions. I have done my fair share of many drugs including acid about a hundred times and the other top delusionogens.  Good trips, great even, some with mystical stuff happening.  What I have experienced at times are profoundly deep joyous and loving spaces where I communed with nature and other people. 

Those spaces were of profound thought and feeling.  Maybe seperation between myself and others was diminished.  Maybe even no egoic ideation.  But at no time was there ever 'ego death.'

I object to the idiom's common place amongst trippers and spiritual beatniks.

I was taught by my Indian guru that when one gains a state of cosmic consciousness the ego doesn't shink but rather expands to encompass everything.



Then I don't know what to tell you. Perhaps you didn't take enough to get to those places, or perhaps it just isn't going to work for you. But I took roughly 5 grams of shrooms my first time, I literally dissolved completely. Ego dissolution is complete loss of seperation from self and other. The sensation that one is everything and vice versa. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death

The first line here on wiki says it best.




How do you do now?  Did you find your experience to give you greater sense of commonality or did you become more individualized?

I have found amongst strongly meditating communities that individualism becomes more intense. I think you'll find that people who experience either greater expansiveness or immersion in greater diversity creates ever more intense need to identify with something.

Also, regarding egodeath if there's any frame of reference, regardless of ones feelings then there is no ego death.

An ego death could occur if you were perhaps a shapeshifter.  If you don't come away with something then what happened?


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Icelander]
    #18731074 - 08/20/13 06:36 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

LysergicX7 said:
Ego dissolution is not a real state? Ummm.. im sorry, but obviously this makes no sense.

Ego death happens. Sometimes when you take mushrooms, sometimes after you almost die, whenever. But it does happen.

Your post is so contradictory.

Talk about love and then say "I hate all those smily empty headed beatniks who think because they are high and have no material goods that they are spiritual - closer to truth - or egoless. The most 'egoless' people I have ever talked to really get touchy when you question them."

Even though you can have ego death, it's not some permanent thing despite how all these people you "hate" so much think it is. Obviously, you aren't going to function very well in this world as "you" if you have no ego.




 
I've been tripping for over 40 years, hundreds of trips and often with several people at a time and often on rather large doses.  I never saw someone behave like they had no ego.




Some of your statements really baffle me. Then how would you know what someone without an ego would behave like? I have experienced ego death before and you certainly would have had no way of knowing it were you there. When I had an ego death on salvia for instance, I would not have been able to speak to you. My behavior would not have told you anything about my internal state, aside from the fact that I was simply elsewhere, not conscious of my body or physical surroundings.


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Icelander]
    #18731078 - 08/20/13 06:41 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Sse said:
"An ego death is said to be characterized as the perceived loss of boundaries between self and environment, a sense of the loss of "control", the loss of the accustomed feeling of existing as a "personal agent", and lose "cognitive-association binding".[1] This "perceived loss of boundaries between self and environment"[citation needed] is said to be experienced through a sensation that one is the whole universe (and therefore there is no need to differentiate the "I" from the "universe") or by simply acknowledging the "I" does not exist."


I wonder what that would look like


 

Well it's likely then everyone experiences "ego death" from time to time.  I have many times.  Yet I always knew there was a I in there somewhere.  Even if it's an illusion.  I'll bet everyone experiences everything uniquely.




If you always knew there was an I, then you didn't go far enough. It is possible to go so far that you forget the I.

Immature spiritual seekers often confuse ego death and enlightenment however, I know that in my younger days I had a great deal of confusion over the subject. They are not the same thing.


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18731086 - 08/20/13 06:46 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
I read everybodies' comments and I read many trip reports and the spiritual and visionary reports of people here and at Bluelight and the idiom 'ego death' has become a goal of many people.

But point out the ego in the first place.  Ego is not a thing with a form, unless it's our form. 

Rather, what people experience are greater/lesser states of awareness and various thought immersions. I have done my fair share of many drugs including acid about a hundred times and the other top delusionogens.  Good trips, great even, some with mystical stuff happening.  What I have experienced at times are profoundly deep joyous and loving spaces where I communed with nature and other people. 

Those spaces were of profound thought and feeling.  Maybe seperation between myself and others was diminished.  Maybe even no egoic ideation.  But at no time was there ever 'ego death.'

I object to the idiom's common place amongst trippers and spiritual beatniks.




You can object to idioms all you want, but there is such a thing as ego death. Just because you havent experienced it, means nothing. The only drugs which I have had ego death on are cannabis and salvia. I have taken as much as 14 hits of acid and still not had ego death. Acid and shrooms just dont give me ego death and that is not uncommon. The trippers who dont experience ego death, will never be able to understand the ones who do.


Quote:


I was taught by my Indian guru that when one gains a state of cosmic consciousness the ego doesn't shink but rather expands to encompass everything.





So? Ego death is not the same thing as the states of consciousness indian gurus are talking about. The latter is far superior.


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18731105 - 08/20/13 07:02 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
It's bullshit. There is nobody who has experienced ego death before death. It started as a statement about feeling loss of personal identity. I suggest this is more a feeling or thought thing, and not an ego thing.

I hate all those smily empty headed beatniks who think because they are high and have no material goods that they are spiritual - closer to truth - or egoless. The most 'egoless' people I have ever talked to really get touchy when you question them.

Enough already. Ego death is a travesty, a mere subjective blip, and not a real state, spiritual or otherwise.

The people who experience the closest thing to ego death are sociopaths and borderline personalities.

Why continue to promote this bullshit concept?


The spiritual experience is based in love.




Because:
(1) Ego-death IS the condition called the Clear Light in Buddhism, Fana in Sufism, or "having the mind of Christ" in Christianity, which is to say, being aware of one's identity as the Logos, not the personality. Therefore "bullshit," being an expression of falsehood, does not apply.

(2) The nature this luminous condition is experienced as the Christian agapé (disinterested love, versus eros, or philias), or as Compassion (Karuna) in Buddhism, as Ultimate Reality, not as a mere human-originated emotion. One must jettison the concept of mind as an epiphenomenon of the brain, even though it can remain an emergent property of a sophisticated brain (the brain does not arise independently of other systems. The Buddhist notion of dependent arisings applies).

(3) Whereas there is a very tenuous development of healthy ego-identity in Borderlines, it is true, (which is why many people with BPD are attracted to Buddhism, wrongly thinking that they are 'selfless'), this is not the case for Dissocial Personality Disordered people (formerly Antisocial Personality Disorder). In fact, ego-death results in humility, compassion, empathy, and sympathy, which in turn translates into behaviors of altruism, generosity, self-sacrifice, care and nurturance - not their selfish opposites in Dissocial individuals who take objects, pleasure in other's suffering, or very lives to satisfy inordinate and perverse desires.

(4) Understanding this is the province of those with spiritual maturity, not those "smiley empty headed beatniks. You may be confusing pot-head's euphoria with lucid-minded bliss. Ego-death is the result of having experienced, howsoever temporarily, a condition of effulgent decentered awareness, or omniscience, the Ultimate Ground of Being as one's True Nature, not the spacio-temporal process that we ordinarily experience ourselves as.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Deviate]
    #18731112 - 08/20/13 07:06 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Well let me rephrase to say whenever someone was talking when tripping.

I've been in that place where I forgot "I" on salvia especially. Still that means to me my egoic sense of self was not dead but inoperative.  Dead means gone, inoperative means not being used actively imo.  My objection has always been that distinction.  Especially the inexperienced tend to believe they have somehow overcome their ego after such and experience.  Rather they have had the experience of a not operative personality structure.  That makes a big difference in what they come away believing imo.  Many who believe they have killed their egos after such experiences then create and inflated image of themselves.  That's what I've noticed.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Icelander]
    #18731214 - 08/20/13 07:47 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Well let me rephrase to say whenever someone was talking when tripping.

I've been in that place where I forgot "I" on salvia especially. Still that means to me my egoic sense of self was not dead but inoperative.  Dead means gone, inoperative means not being used actively imo.  My objection has always been that distinction.  Especially the inexperienced tend to believe they have somehow overcome their ego after such and experience.  Rather they have had the experience of a not operative personality structure.  That makes a big difference in what they come away believing imo.  Many who believe they have killed their egos after such experiences then create and inflated image of themselves.  That's what I've noticed.




Exactly, that is why I said ego death is not the same as enlightenment. One can have an ego death experience and then return to egoic existence, whereas enlightenment is permanent.

Another difference, is that one can be in a state of ego death but completely unable to function in the world. This is different from the final state of God-realization, in which one is able to function in the world.


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18731805 - 08/20/13 11:26 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
It's bullshit. There is nobody who has experienced ego death before death. It started as a statement about feeling loss of personal identity. I suggest this is more a feeling or thought thing, and not an ego thing.

I hate all those smily empty headed beatniks who think because they are high and have no material goods that they are spiritual - closer to truth - or egoless. The most 'egoless' people I have ever talked to really get touchy when you question them.

Enough already. Ego death is a travesty, a mere subjective blip, and not a real state, spiritual or otherwise.

The people who experience the closest thing to ego death are sociopaths and borderline personalities.

Why continue to promote this bullshit concept?

The spiritual experience is based in love.




Depends who is claiming it. For example have you heard about the Skull and Bones secret society that three generations of the Bush family were initiated in? Apparently part of that initiation is so-called 'ego death' where the initiate is even in a coffin! But, we we can see, whatever is "reborn" from that shit turns out a psycho. So THAT is not what I would recommend as authentic ego death. That is more the rebirth of a mammoth ego that pledges secret oaths of allegiance to their secret gang. So it sure aint THAT!

I also question the Jungian concept of the 'Self' which is supposed to be a death of the ego, and birth of a "Self", because it is too much part of the patriarchal hero monomyth who creates a static image of himself--or God-image, and resists through fear immersion into nature's visionary depths.

What I feel is the authentic ego-transcendence is part of lunar mythology not solar mythology, and this is where the initiate ecstatically immerses into the visionary realms of the Goddess, often with psychedelic inspiration, and then feels a deep ecstatic sense of merging with the natural world. Not feeling egotistically cut off, distant, and superior to others, other species and nature, but realizing that all of nature and life is a dynamic living process which is cyclic and self-regenerating and interconnected.


Edited by zzripz (08/20/13 11:28 AM)


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: zzripz]
    #18735025 - 08/20/13 11:15 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I also question the Jungian concept of the 'Self' which is supposed to be a death of the ego, and birth of a "Self", because it is too much part of the patriarchal hero monomyth who creates a static image of himself--or God-image, and resists through fear immersion into nature's visionary depths.

I believe that Individuation is a matter of the formation of an ego-Self axis, where in western myth, Jesus and God represent the ego and Self respectively. A strong ego-Self axis constellates Synchronicities (miracles) around one who manifests it. This is based on Edward Edinger's book Ego and Archetype. The ego emerges from the Self, the Great Round, the Great Mother-Mater-Matrix of the Unconscious. But Jung falls into the "Pre-Trans fallacy," that Wilber brilliantly explicated. Jung left the Superconscious out of his theories. He confused archetypal with universal, and immersion in the Unconscious with the Transcendental. Jung refused to meet Ramana Maharshi, obviously intimidated by the possibility of being corrected, he said only, "I know the type." No he didn't. So I agree with you on Jung's [mis]understanding of the Self.

What I feel is the authentic ego-transcendence is part of lunar mythology not solar mythology, and this is where the initiate ecstatically immerses into the visionary realms of the Goddess, often with psychedelic inspiration, and then feels a deep ecstatic sense of merging with the natural world. Not feeling egotistically cut off, distant, and superior to others, other species and nature, but realizing that all of nature and life is a dynamic living process which is cyclic and self-regenerating and interconnected.


I too feel the truth about the Lunar, but I believe in a Conjunction of Solar-Lunar principles. There is the Gnostic Christ-Sophia, the Alchemical Marriage, Shiva-Shakti, Yin-Yang, etc., etc.. Coincidentia Oppositorum.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18736042 - 08/21/13 05:59 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

some beautiful writings in this thread


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18788032 - 09/02/13 01:55 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I believe I have experienced ego death, and I don't believe I'm crazy. But who knows.(: I'm now beginning to think it's not a positive [spiritual?] experience but rather a negative one. Maybe it's not something humans were meant to be able to do, but because there's sin and Satan in the world, like adam and eve wished to gain knowledge.. Some people use it to gain knowledge too. In the long run or bigger picture maybe it's bad.. Keep an open mind!! It's definitely real though.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: HannahMichelle]
    #18793647 - 09/03/13 09:57 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Ego death to me means and end to the illusion that we are only our minds or bodies.  And while lots of people might accept this intellectually, the true ego death, as evidenced by psychedelics, is a really powerful experience where you perceive something that might even be highly analogous to physical death.


--------------------
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drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: HannahMichelle]
    #18794003 - 09/03/13 11:40 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

HannahMichelle said:
I believe I have experienced ego death, and I don't believe I'm crazy. But who knows.(: I'm now beginning to think it's not a positive [spiritual?] experience but rather a negative one. Maybe it's not something humans were meant to be able to do, but because there's sin and Satan in the world, like adam and eve wished to gain knowledge.. Some people use it to gain knowledge too. In the long run or bigger picture maybe it's bad.. Keep an open mind!! It's definitely real though.





In Hinduism there's some type fof mental phenomenon called 'ritam bhara pragyam' which means 'mind which envisions' and in yogic speak your have the mind's eye which is programmed to give you visuals of what you think as your dreams should proove. You can envision demons in 3d with the right helpers, but they still come from you.

All this talk of gods and demons but will you share your groceries?


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18796408 - 09/03/13 08:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
Quote:

HannahMichelle said:
I believe I have experienced ego death, and I don't believe I'm crazy. But who knows.(: I'm now beginning to think it's not a positive [spiritual?] experience but rather a negative one. Maybe it's not something humans were meant to be able to do, but because there's sin and Satan in the world, like adam and eve wished to gain knowledge.. Some people use it to gain knowledge too. In the long run or bigger picture maybe it's bad.. Keep an open mind!! It's definitely real though.





In Hinduism there's some type fof mental phenomenon called 'ritam bhara pragyam' which means 'mind which envisions' and in yogic speak your have the mind's eye which is programmed to give you visuals of what you think as your dreams should proove. You can envision demons in 3d with the right helpers, but they still come from you.

All this talk of gods and demons but will you share your groceries?





I hear you and consider what you have said.

What do you mean am I willing to share my groceries?


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18798074 - 09/04/13 05:35 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
Quote:

HannahMichelle said:
I believe I have experienced ego death, and I don't believe I'm crazy. But who knows.(: I'm now beginning to think it's not a positive [spiritual?] experience but rather a negative one. Maybe it's not something humans were meant to be able to do, but because there's sin and Satan in the world, like adam and eve wished to gain knowledge.. Some people use it to gain knowledge too. In the long run or bigger picture maybe it's bad.. Keep an open mind!! It's definitely real though.





In Hinduism there's some type fof mental phenomenon called 'ritam bhara pragyam' which means 'mind which envisions' and in yogic speak your have the mind's eye which is programmed to give you visuals of what you think as your dreams should proove. You can envision demons in 3d with the right helpers, but they still come from you.


All this talk of gods and demons but will you share your groceries?






I like you.



"All this talk of gods and demons but will you share your groceries?"

This is where spirituality begins, and ends. /thread/forum/internet/life


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: crkhd]
    #18798100 - 09/04/13 05:46 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

crkhd said:
Quote:

eve69 said:
Quote:

HannahMichelle said:
I believe I have experienced ego death, and I don't believe I'm crazy. But who knows.(: I'm now beginning to think it's not a positive [spiritual?] experience but rather a negative one. Maybe it's not something humans were meant to be able to do, but because there's sin and Satan in the world, like adam and eve wished to gain knowledge.. Some people use it to gain knowledge too. In the long run or bigger picture maybe it's bad.. Keep an open mind!! It's definitely real though.





In Hinduism there's some type fof mental phenomenon called 'ritam bhara pragyam' which means 'mind which envisions' and in yogic speak your have the mind's eye which is programmed to give you visuals of what you think as your dreams should proove. You can envision demons in 3d with the right helpers, but they still come from you.


All this talk of gods and demons but will you share your groceries?






I like you.



"All this talk of gods and demons but will you share your groceries?"

This is where spirituality begins, and ends. /thread/forum/internet/life




:lol::thumbup:


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18807048 - 09/06/13 11:26 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:

The spiritual experience is based in love.




A lesson for your ego? :wink:

Quote:

eve69 said:

I hate all those smily empty headed beatniks...




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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #18808282 - 09/06/13 05:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

If you don't hate you don't love. Knowing when to love and when to hate is wisdom. I just practice at the wisdom here, sometimes not so well, aye, ahahahahahahahahahhaahahhahahhahahaa

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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18808340 - 09/06/13 05:20 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
If you don't hate you don't love.




i would disagree with that. anger or even hatred might be a feeling that arises...but it's certainly not needed to feel a state of love or compassion.


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: g00ru]
    #18808902 - 09/06/13 07:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Life is dualism.  If everyone could just feel love then they would.


--------------------
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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Icelander]
    #18809021 - 09/06/13 07:41 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Love is a complex emption. But if you say you love everybody then you love nobody in particular, and if you say you're compassionate to all, then (1) I know you're fucking psychotic, and (2) you aren't gonna get better soon.


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69] * 1
    #18809496 - 09/06/13 09:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
if you say you're compassionate to all, then (1) I know you're fucking psychotic, and (2) you aren't gonna get better
soon.




well it's certainly something to cultivate...apparently you put no value in the concept of a buddha or boddhisattva?


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: g00ru]
    #18810556 - 09/07/13 05:13 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I put no stock or faith in people with Bodhisattva complex.  They are more likely to sit around with piteous faces then to actually do something. If your intention is as a Bodhisattva then circumstances line up for you to accrue merit, you do not have to act all righteous. You might think I've missed the point, but I assure you that the point is larger than the words involved, and has to do with actions not ones tender wittle feewings.

For instance, a friend and I were at an outdoor weekend concert and we had gotten fresh cold beers. We were walking and saw a girl collapse. In our compassion we stopped and held our cold drinks to her neck and face while someone got a medic. That's compassion. The action in the moment defies feelings, thoughts, and actions and is not llinear. You can study up on your Bodhisattvaness your whole life and never take one fucking action to help others. I find that quite often amongst the compassionate bunch. Or else they rake you over the coals for help and jerk off your guilt feelings, thinking they're giving you a chance to evolve. The concept of compassion isn't as straight forward or simple as it seems.

You obviously didn't get my little aphorism there.  But say, if you try to love many women, they will all get jealous and cut your dick off when you're sleeping. So compassion and love for all is in fact compassion and love for none.  I am really sayin something huh?!

Furthermore, the Bodhisattva vows to benefit all sentient beings is so rote that it stops having meaning.  The intention, not the words or the high falutin Bodhisattva precepts.  You need not say some ritual formulation before and after meditation. "I am compassionate and sitting on my ass for all sentient beings, etc..."  Fact is, helping oneself spiritually develop and gain more sensitivity through meditation is ipso facto a benevolent action which show compassion integrally.  Formulaic notions lifestyle and religion do little to help one in exceptional behavior.


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18810574 - 09/07/13 05:29 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
I put no stock or faith in people with Bodhisattva complex.  They are more likely to sit around with piteous faces then to actually do something. If your intention is as a Bodhisattva then circumstances line up for you to accrue merit, you do not have to act all righteous. You might think I've missed the point, but I assure you that the point is larger than the words involved, and has to do with actions not ones tender wittle feewings.

For instance, a friend and I were at an outdoor weekend concert and we had gotten fresh cold beers. We were walking and saw a girl collapse. In our compassion we stopped and held our cold drinks to her neck and face while someone got a medic. That's compassion. The action in the moment defies feelings, thoughts, and actions and is not llinear. You can study up on your Bodhisattvaness your whole life and never take one fucking action to help others. I find that quite often amongst the compassionate bunch. Or else they rake you over the coals for help and jerk off your guilt feelings, thinking they're giving you a chance to evolve. The concept of compassion isn't as straight forward or simple as it seems.

You obviously didn't get my little aphorism there.  But say, if you try to love many women, they will all get jealous and cut your dick off when you're sleeping. So compassion and love for all is in fact compassion and love for none.  I am really sayin something huh?!

Furthermore, the Bodhisattva vows to benefit all sentient beings is so rote that it stops having meaning.  The intention, not the words or the high falutin Bodhisattva precepts.  You need not say some ritual formulation before and after meditation. "I am compassionate and sitting on my ass for all sentient beings, etc..."  Fact is, helping oneself spiritually develop and gain more sensitivity through meditation is ipso facto a benevolent action which show compassion integrally.  Formulaic notions lifestyle and religion do little to help one in exceptional behavior.





:raisemyglass:


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18810582 - 09/07/13 05:34 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
If you don't hate you don't love.




It might be said that without the existence of hate, there cannot be love which would ring true, however a person does not have to practice hate to practice love.

If a person is dedicating time to hating, they are dedicating time to the ego which taxes directly from the spiritual.

You can work with the essence or you can project what is not.


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #18810640 - 09/07/13 06:50 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Actually, look through history and see the wars of all those egoless lovers of spirituality. That's the raw truth. 

Denying, and transmuting, and subjugating, and mortifying ones negative emotions is not such a good outlet for them as merely utilizing those powerful emotions in a positive manner.

Denying feelings denying ego, in fact denial at all relegates those things to someplace where they don't go away but get bigger unseen.

I am sorry for all of you who have been taught not to feel not to think and not to have egos. You have all been manipulated by people who were like, "don't hate, here let me suck your weiner. It's not good to hate. "  Actually it is very good to hate, and to act upon it, when it is just.


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18810692 - 09/07/13 07:34 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

It's not about denying ego.

If a person claims they are "egoless", however true that may or may not be, they have by means of the suffix "less" already proposed that ego does exist. They have in reality, perhaps, just made it a less prominent part of their being.

People who live less by the ego, don't have to contend with the problems related to herding and expressing negative emotions for the simple fact that they don't allow resource for it to manifest in the first place. 

A hateful person isn't doing good by cultivating it in the comfort of knowing they can release.  They are just chanelling the same energy elsewhere albeit in a different format. Your accusation of manipulation and "sucking weiner" comment was a transmutation right here from your own deep rooted dislike of people who have a contrary opinion in the discussion. Perhaps such words are a personal release, but there's no universal benefit.  You'll only evoke angst in others in the exact same way that this post might do the same to you.  Note the energy transfer which spawned from you and might return to you (in a small scale loop) It's all simple stuff. :wink:

Anyone who deems it "good to hate" has demonstrated unquestionably that they are significantly disconnected from the spiritual self since hate is the single most powerful component of the ego which is an unpure projection of who a persons assumes themselves to be or who they want to be.


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (09/07/13 07:58 AM)


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #18810830 - 09/07/13 08:54 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

You're well spoken, but you think in clichés. I try to break people out of them. You speak of transmuting, and you say I did some, and then you say something else. I am already forgetting what. We were talking about hatred, but your post was off topic.  Sorry, I am falling asleep. That's what happens when I read little cliché phaseology instead of thought.


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18810924 - 09/07/13 09:25 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I'll happily clarify if you highlight what you perceived as a contradiction.

Without that info, I can only conclude that you raised the claim to veer off having to address the post.


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #18810947 - 09/07/13 09:30 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I like you Eve, a few stray comments I disagree with but your posts seem well thought out.

Posting now, possibly contributing later.  Monitoring either way.

It's all semantics anyway.


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: ClockCode]
    #18811755 - 09/07/13 02:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

The ego is word based.  Computer, book, wall , picture...  For a transitionary period those descriptors don't exist.  Then a sort of vision logic comes through that is communication from either outside or from a place off limits in the mind most of the time.


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #18813966 - 09/08/13 03:14 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Ego & death, two very heavily loaded words!
Almost a cliche?


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #18814120 - 09/08/13 06:28 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

FishOilTheKid said:
The ego is word based.  Computer, book, wall , picture...  For a transitionary period those descriptors don't exist.  Then a sort of vision logic comes through that is communication from either outside or from a place off limits in the mind most of the time.





http://www.scribd.com/doc/38626734/Jaideva-Singh-Spanda-Karikas-the-Divine-Creative-Pulsation

Here you go.


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: crkhd]
    #18815180 - 09/08/13 01:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Lots of talk of cliches, but cliches are apt.

Meanings and morals aren't meant to be complex.

All is as clear and reflective as water.

Complicate at ones peril.


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #18815524 - 09/08/13 02:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Lots of talk of cliches, but cliches are apt.

Meanings and morals aren't meant to be complex.

All is as clear and reflective as water.

Complicate at ones peril.




Meanings and morals are neither meant to be complex nor simple. They aren't really meant to be anything.
Which makes them very much less clear than water, probably less than as reflective, too.
And no, cliches are not apt. They wouldn't be cliches if they were.
But otherwise, Regards!
-nut


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: p-nut]
    #18817922 - 09/09/13 06:20 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

p-nut said:
Meanings and morals are neither meant to be complex nor simple. They aren't really meant to be anything.




If they are to be universally understood they most certainly are.

Quote:


Which makes them very much less clear than water, probably less than as reflective, too.




As above.  Most teachings are apparent in nature and applicable elsewhere.

Quote:


And no, cliches are not apt. They wouldn't be cliches if they were.
But otherwise, Regards!
-nut




I'm not sure how you rendered a cliche void based upon it's stereotypical quality...


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (09/09/13 06:25 AM)


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #18818263 - 09/09/13 09:26 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

p-nut said:
Meanings and morals are neither meant to be complex nor simple. They aren't really meant to be anything.




If they are to be universally understood they most certainly are.

Quote:


Which makes them very much less clear than water, probably less than as reflective, too.




As above.  Most teachings are apparent in nature and applicable elsewhere.

Quote:


And no, cliches are not apt. They wouldn't be cliches if they were.
But otherwise, Regards!
-nut




I'm not sure how you rendered a cliche void based upon it's stereotypical quality...





listen to any modern president speak
then explain how clichés have content


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18818298 - 09/09/13 09:39 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Presidents eat food.  That doesn't render food illicit.




Edited by Duncan Rowhl (09/09/13 09:51 AM)


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18818302 - 09/09/13 09:41 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
Fact is, helping oneself spiritually develop and gain more sensitivity through meditation is ipso facto a benevolent action which show compassion integrally. 





i agree with this...but i know a lot of people myself included who have had great experiences with mantras, they can indeed bring one into a space of deeper consciousness.

i can't really respond to your post...it's like on another level (of what, I'm not exactly sure). But yeah, compassion rules :thumbup:


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: g00ru]
    #18818425 - 09/09/13 10:30 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Why is ego death such a sought after experience?
Any loss of ego i've  had has been pretty terrifying and distressing.
The ego is the source of much of life's joys whether we like it or not. Ambition, pride, control, goals, status all revolve around the ego.
They might not be very admirable qualities but they sure as shit make us happy and are a fundamental part of who we are.


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: olson]
    #18818445 - 09/09/13 10:41 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

a wise man once told me:

it is the consciousness you love, not the self image. it is the consciousness that you really enjoy. the ego is less than dust in the wind, yet we all cling to it.

sure, ego loss can be distressing. panic attacks suck! but...i tell you what, every time i have one these days, i get more and more conscious during it, and afterwards...i feel like yet another weight has been lifted off my soul...~~~


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: g00ru]
    #18818778 - 09/09/13 12:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Why is ego death such a sought after experience?




Because behaviors or circuits can be quicker than the observer and to stop the automatic processes one might seek to unravel them.  Or annihilate them.


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #19113346 - 11/10/13 05:33 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:


I hate [...]




Quote:

eve69 said:
The spiritual experience is based in love.




Do you see what I see.


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: hTx]
    #19113433 - 11/10/13 06:29 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

no - i see someone who thinks those who love can't also hate - i know that those who can't feel hate also can't feel love


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #19113476 - 11/10/13 07:00 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Who is this someone you think thinks this way?
Why do you say "those who can't feel hate also can't feel love." as if you know such things
Did you feel love or hate first? Do you own your feelings, or do they own you?

What is the purpose of hate, and what is the purpose of love?

Those that hate, dont you see, are far from love...the feeling itself is so negative that you actually harm your own mentality just by hating anyone. In essense, you are hurting only yourself when you hate.

"Hatred has never stopped hatred.
Only love stops hate.
This is the eternal law."
-Dhammapada


Why so serious?! We're really lovely...underneath it all.


'Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.'

What are you so afraid of.


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: allseeingike]
    #19113494 - 11/10/13 07:10 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

allseeingike said:
I think ego death can be experienced on high doses of lsd or mushrooms ect. Also i think high doses can very effectively mimic a dying experience. To me ego death is when YOU stop existing and become all but it can't last for ever you want survive like that




Same... NDEs and egodeath / softening is pretty normal part of the psychedelic experience

death is just loss of consciousness / merging with all

NDEs on psychedelics felt very real, not sure a real NDE would be much different

had one on both lsd and shrooms, very similar, it changes you afterwards
can sometimes take years to process..

egodeath can probably take a whole lifetime to process


Edited by lessismore (11/10/13 07:18 AM)


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Offlineeve69
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: hTx]
    #19113636 - 11/10/13 08:07 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
Who is this someone you think thinks this way?
Why do you say "those who can't feel hate also can't feel love." as if you know such things
Did you feel love or hate first? Do you own your feelings, or do they own you?

What is the purpose of hate, and what is the purpose of love?

Those that hate, dont you see, are far from love...the feeling itself is so negative that you actually harm your own mentality just by hating anyone. In essense, you are hurting only yourself when you hate.

"Hatred has never stopped hatred.
Only love stops hate.
This is the eternal law."
-Dhammapada


Why so serious?! We're really lovely...underneath it all.


'Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.'

What are you so afraid of.





I get why  you hate me.  We are not similar thinkers in any way. You'll also find I never quote anything but I do think my own thoughts. I need no external authority for propping weak reasoning skills (yes, I can survive my own weak reasoning on my own).

I don't do that waste of time question the questioner stuff. 

And thanks for replying in one of my threads.  It's an honor to be conversed with, regardless of whether I agree or not.


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OfflineSse
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #19114320 - 11/10/13 11:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I have trouble even forming coherent sentences in my mind. The words all jumble as I begin to think, I slurr and stutter in my own mind. I probably miss half of the words that I read so in lieu of my cognitive impairment I improvise and find like things written by others and quote where I see it may be relative. Everything I do outside of shits and giggles is mainly trying to establish that one pointedness. Since people have shown favor to the things that I quote at times; is one reason I keep doing it. It helps train my brain as well, reading, writing, pondering. If there is a general consensus that really wants me to stop then I will but tis only life anyway. I've got a thousand and one things I could stress over that would seem more appropriate then disliking the thoughts/actions of others(not that I don't still do it). I really don't know anyones intentions and I don't really know what is happening behind the scene. I can gleam with my peepers and my subjective tastes/opinions that form what I think i'm perceiving as firm and based in reality but where there is perception there is deception.


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


Edited by Sse (11/10/13 11:22 AM)


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Sse]
    #19114344 - 11/10/13 11:10 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

we are all possessed by our thoughts :-)

as long as we have thoughts we are never free, we only think we are


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Sse]
    #19114349 - 11/10/13 11:13 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I enjoy your posts


--------------------
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it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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Offlineeve69
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Sse]
    #19114388 - 11/10/13 11:25 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sse said:
I have trouble even forming coherent sentences in my mind. The words all jumble as I begin to think, I slurr and stutter in my own mind. I probably miss half of the words that I read so in lieu of my cognitive impairment I improvise and find like things written by others and quote where I see it may be relative. Everything I do outside of shits and giggles is mainly trying to establish that one pointedness. Since people have shown favor to the things that I quote at times; is one reason I keep doing it. It helps train my brain as well, reading, writing, pondering. If there is a general consensus that really wants me to stop then I will but tis only life anyway. I've got a thousand and one things I could stress over that would seem more appropriate then disliking the thoughts/actions of others. I really don't know anyones intentions and I don't really know what is happening behind the scene. I can gleam with my peepers and my subjective tastes/opinions that form what I think i'm perceiving as firm and based in reality but where there is perception there is deception.




That was coherent enough.  Well, in your favor, at least your copying is from interesting sources. It's not like you're coming here copupasting shit from the fucking koran and bible and browbeating us into submission.  Also, my comment wasn't about you per se.  But xtc. 

There is something called breakdown of metaphor.  A metaphor can't be used beyond it's specific allegory or else it breaks down. So also the thoughts in a thread breakdown outside of it. So don't be offended Sse.


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OfflineSse
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: lessismore]
    #19114402 - 11/10/13 11:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

true that, they really can "creep in and take over"

and thx chrisman, a few people have thanked me for them... I try not to flood the board but sometimes I may get carried away.


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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OfflineSse
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #19114417 - 11/10/13 11:33 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

thx man, if you were to have any length of conversation with me in person you would see what I mean, its better then it has been. Certain things like green tea or kratom do help me cognate a bit easier. The piracetam was working wonders for me but after a while it doesn't sit well with me.

tbh im having trouble comprehending the last part. ill come back and google everything :p


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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Offlineegodeathflux
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #19114437 - 11/10/13 11:36 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

When one has lost all concept of the self, of what everyday objects are, when they look out the window at night and see everything that has ever happened and ever will in each and every single atom; all of which seem separate yet intrinsically linked, I think you can assume you have encountered egodeath.

I had been lurking on this site and after a long course of "heroic doses" during one trip there was no me, I gradually remembered what a human was, what a house was, what a roof is for and why we use them. When this has happened to you and you do some reading to try and work out what the hell just happened, you end up with a name like mine a lot of questions and in most cases anxiety I would imagine.

The cessation of all things, including visuals at the peak of a 7g+ trip, is beyond explanation. I am not sure if my ego "died" but the self and all knowledge and awareness of it was certainly absent for a couple of hours.

To say that ego death isn't permanent and therefore doesn't exist seems fatuous, what about the reincarnation of the self?

I kind of had to chime in on this thread, based on my ego-ridden screen name. :wink:


--------------------

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"Standing on the corner of 5th and Vermouth"



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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Sse]
    #19114452 - 11/10/13 11:38 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sse said:
true that, they really can "creep in and take over"

and thx chrisman, a few people have thanked me for them... I try not to flood the board but sometimes I may get carried away.




only if we forget to meditate...


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OfflineSse
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: lessismore]
    #19115184 - 11/10/13 02:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

si gotta churn the butter


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: hTx]
    #19115299 - 11/10/13 02:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Why so serious?! We're really lovely...underneath it all.

How can you be so sure? What about psychopaths?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Icelander]
    #19115339 - 11/10/13 03:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

underneath personality there is no disorder? maybeee seems reasonable


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


Edited by Sse (11/10/13 03:00 PM)


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Sse]
    #19119069 - 11/11/13 05:13 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Unless the universe/consciousness itself is disordered :wink:

From what I see that would be my guess. :satansmoking:


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Icelander]
    #19119919 - 11/11/13 10:55 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

heheh could very well be... but maybe only from another disorderedly perspective

but without perspective who's to say

with no thought to be confused or ill then no disorder I guess

pure consciousness without regard sounds sane and peaceful... begin to speak about it and you may be disordered, maybe... words can only portray so much


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Sse]
    #19125265 - 11/12/13 07:25 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Disclaimer: I haven't read every post in this thread so I apologise if I'm reiterating what others have already said.

I think it's clear that through popular usage, the term 'ego death' has been fragmented in its definition, it means many things to different people. I personally use the term to mean the following:

Ego death is when one's sense of 'self' dissolves and you lose awareness of your existence as a separate entity. You lose awareness of your body and the identity (ego) which you've formed. The 'ego death' experience happens at the peak of a trip and does not last beyond the effects of the drug. What does last however, is the memory and realisation that an ego-less experience of reality is possible.

The first time this happened to me, I panicked as I realised I could not remember my own name, and my responsibilities. My language faculties began to fail and I was left with nothing but raw sensory experience with no internal narrative to attempt to understand it. I was floating in a psychedelic aether with no end in sight but 'I' was not there, only the experience. This loss of my personal identity was of course alarming and I was convinced that "this must be death".


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Libertin]
    #19125271 - 11/12/13 07:27 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

When I experienced similar things on LSD, Salvia, Shrooms, I  never thought of it as ego death. I just realized that my brain was being made to fart. :haha:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Icelander]
    #19125292 - 11/12/13 07:48 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, the identity factor of the personality perhaps opens up to identify less with the physical body but the identity still exists to even have the notion of unlocalized universal, etc....


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #19125371 - 11/12/13 08:19 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That's what I noticed but I'm more observant and critical in my thinking most likely. :imspecial:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #19125895 - 11/12/13 11:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
Yeah, the identity factor of the personality perhaps opens up to identify less with the physical body but the identity still exists to even have the notion of unlocalized universal, etc....




yeah but just because an identity exists doesn't mean that's what you totally are...the fact that you become aware of an identity as such is already a step in the right direction. and i have found that as the process continues there will definately be moments when no sense of a 'person' is there at all...it's really a very natural feeling.

and then there's times when you still intuitively feel like an individual, but experientially actions are just occurring, almost like you aren't exercising any control over them, and that too is like ego death because it shows you just how little control the ego actually has. going with the cosmic flow ~~~


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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Offlinekneesocks
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: g00ru]
    #19126526 - 11/12/13 01:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

There's no need to judge other people's progress along the path to enlightenment just because you perceive yourself to be further along on that path.


--------------------
"An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt;
A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next."
-Bhagavad-gita 4:40


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: kneesocks]
    #19126775 - 11/12/13 02:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i don't think i was judging him at all, just responding lol. i'm not gonna hold back in what i say...


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Offlineeve69
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: g00ru]
    #19127566 - 11/12/13 05:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

g00ru said:
Quote:

eve69 said:
Yeah, the identity factor of the personality perhaps opens up to identify less with the physical body but the identity still exists to even have the notion of unlocalized universal, etc....




yeah but just because an identity exists doesn't mean that's what you totally are...the fact that you become aware of an identity as such is already a step in the right direction. and i have found that as the process continues there will definately be moments when no sense of a 'person' is there at all...it's really a very natural feeling.

and then there's times when you still intuitively feel like an individual, but experientially actions are just occurring, almost like you aren't exercising any control over them, and that too is like ego death because it shows you just how little control the ego actually has. going with the cosmic flow ~~~




I read Castaneda when I was twelve....


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #19127833 - 11/12/13 06:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

alright, that's a good book...wasn't challenging anybody's wisdom with my post honestly. i was simply asserting that in addition to what you said, one can come into a feeling where the identity is not so predominant. and that is a good thing, it's a liberating feeling.


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drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #19129237 - 11/12/13 11:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
Quote:

g00ru said:
Quote:

eve69 said:
Yeah, the identity factor of the personality perhaps opens up to identify less with the physical body but the identity still exists to even have the notion of unlocalized universal, etc....




yeah but just because an identity exists doesn't mean that's what you totally are...the fact that you become aware of an identity as such is already a step in the right direction. and i have found that as the process continues there will definately be moments when no sense of a 'person' is there at all...it's really a very natural feeling.

and then there's times when you still intuitively feel like an individual, but experientially actions are just occurring, almost like you aren't exercising any control over them, and that too is like ego death because it shows you just how little control the ego actually has. going with the cosmic flow ~~~




I read Castaneda when I was twelve....




Probably didn't understand a word of it :lol:


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Offlinekneesocks
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: g00ru]
    #19129654 - 11/13/13 01:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

g00ru said:
i don't think i was judging him at all, just responding lol. i'm not gonna hold back in what i say...



I was replying to the first poster, sorry.


--------------------
"An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt;
A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next."
-Bhagavad-gita 4:40


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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: kneesocks]
    #19130625 - 11/13/13 10:18 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

ah np


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drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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