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InvisibleOldHam
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Registered: 07/19/13
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pros and cons of bulk?
    #18725918 - 08/19/13 03:45 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

And, how to increase the pros and decrease the cons.

Shoot.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: pros and cons of bulk? [Re: OldHam]
    #18725928 - 08/19/13 03:53 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Pros: Lots of mushrooms with very little effort.

Cons: Takes up more space than cakes.


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: pros and cons of bulk? [Re: PussyFart]
    #18725941 - 08/19/13 04:09 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Pro: Lots of mushrooms with very little effort

Con: What to do with all those damn mushrooms

:dawerp:


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OfflineLTSwoomz
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Registered: 02/16/13
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Re: pros and cons of bulk? [Re: PussyFart] * 1
    #18725960 - 08/19/13 04:21 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I think the talent and experience of the grower is also important when weighing the pros and cons.

The pros of cakes I think are aimed towards new cultivators. Also, bulk has many pros over cakes but only once you establish good sterile procedure.

One important difference to note that will tie all of this together is that with BRF cakes, the fruiting substrate is inoculated directly and then colonized, therefore eliminating pasteurization and spawning entirely. With bulk, grains are a spawn sub, and coir/verm or w/e is the bulk sub, which requires healthy spawn to grow in.

Massively over simplified, there are two main stages to growing. Stage 1 is Colonization (growing the mycelium network), this stage is highly fragile and requires lots of attention to details, good sterile technique, and proper planning. Stage 2 is Fruiting (growing the mushrooms), and a monkey with a wrench could do it. If you give them proper light, proper air (this includes temperature), and proper moisture, they will thrive, and those things are easy as sin to upkeep.

When growing cakes you don't need a PC, filter discs, or modified injection ports, and they take up less space. Contam risk is relatively low for so little procedure if you follow tek to the T. New people tend to have poorer sterile procedure and also face the task of learning all of the lingo and the procedure in a community of widely varying opinions and often have to sift through a bunch of contradictory information to get it right. PF Tek pretty much simmers it down as far as it can go. Also, you skip two entire steps of the process in that you do not have to pasteurize a substrate or spawn to it.

On the flip side, grains and seed are much easier to fuck up in the early stages without proper sterile procedure. BRF cakes can grow with merely a verm barrier and some holes in the lid, I don't think this would work with grains and cakes are just plain harder to contam. It's easy to grow bulk if you have access to a large pressure cooker and other things like silicone injection ports (or self-healing, etc) and synthetic filter discs because these things make getting through inoculation and colonization much smoother and from full colonization on it's a lot harder to fuck up. At that point, the pros MASSIVELY out-weigh the cons.


--------------------
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2nd Project Success


Edited by LTSwoomz (08/19/13 04:30 AM)


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InvisibleOldHam
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Re: pros and cons of bulk? [Re: LTSwoomz]
    #18725981 - 08/19/13 04:39 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

^^ That's what I'm talking about.
:billymaythumbup:

For the record, I'm used to 1/2 gallon jars of straight rye, crumbled to tray, lightly 'cased' with
straight verm. Maybe a little g2g on the side, but very simple, very easy, very clean. Works4me.


Not sure if that's already considered 'bulk' or what.
I didn't think so...that's why I asked those other questions and also this one.

In fact, I think out of 3 or 4 attempts with PFtek, I got one to actually work.
But with this 1/2 gallon, grain, etc? yeah, I'm pretty much unstoppable. 

:smuglook: :lol: jk. I'm a total noob. Need all the help I can get.

Saw that One flush wonder using Coir Tek, that TranscendingLife posted, and was like, great scott!
And, here I am...


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OfflineLTSwoomz
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Re: pros and cons of bulk? [Re: OldHam] * 1
    #18725992 - 08/19/13 04:48 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

That exact log is why I decided to grow bulk, although I won't be doing exactly what he did. I failed my first bulk grow due to contams in the grains and that's why I decided to learn everything I could about that stage of the project. I now am nearly 100% sure I will succeed next attempt which will be started within a week or so, so keep an eye on the forums to see how well or poorly I do. I'm glad my posts have been helpful to you and wish you the best of luck. There are lots of really helpful and experienced TCs on this site, you picked a great place to begin.


Edited by LTSwoomz (08/19/13 04:51 AM)


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InvisibleOldHam
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Re: pros and cons of bulk? [Re: LTSwoomz]
    #18725996 - 08/19/13 04:55 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I'm always beginning with something...:thumbup:
Still feel lost when it comes to bulk though.

Not really sure if I'm willing to take the leap and risk throwing away all that grain just for a few more
grams or whatever of mushrooms. The not-having-to-fuck-with-it aspect is definitely appealing...


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OfflineLTSwoomz
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Re: pros and cons of bulk? [Re: OldHam] * 1
    #18726003 - 08/19/13 04:59 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OldHam said:
I'm always beginning with something...:thumbup:
Still feel lost when it comes to bulk though.

Not really sure if I'm willing to take the leap and risk throwing away all that grain just for a few more
grams or whatever of mushrooms. The not-having-to-fuck-with-it aspect is definitely appealing...




Is there anything in particular that daunts you with bulk? If you've managed to colonize grains, you're pretty much good to go, just pasteurize and spawn and you've got a monotub. Just make sure to construct it as directed and dial it in properly. Once it's recolonized after spawning, it's essentially sit and forget until your fruits are ready to harvest.


--------------------
My Favorite Links
1st Project Failure
2nd Project Success


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Registered: 07/31/13
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Re: pros and cons of bulk? [Re: LTSwoomz]
    #18726006 - 08/19/13 05:00 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Spawn is cheap and easy.  If you mess up start over and in two weeks you will be right back where you started.  If you're casing straight grains you will definitely see yield increases that are worth switching for.

Quote:

LTSwoomz said:
Quote:

OldHam said:
I'm always beginning with something...:thumbup:
Still feel lost when it comes to bulk though.

Not really sure if I'm willing to take the leap and risk throwing away all that grain just for a few more
grams or whatever of mushrooms. The not-having-to-fuck-with-it aspect is definitely appealing...




Is there anything in particular that daunts you with bulk? If you've managed to colonize grains, you're pretty much good to go, just pasteurize and spawn and you've got a monotub. Just make sure to construct it as directed and dial it in properly. Once it's recolonized after spawning, it's essentially sit and forget until your fruits are ready to harvest.




He has a problem with pasteurization, at least that is what I got from his other two threads.


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InvisibleOldHam
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Re: pros and cons of bulk? [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #18726011 - 08/19/13 05:03 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Not at all.

As per my other thread, I have a 'problem' with putting my babies in a container with a mass
of nutritious, non-sterile substrate. That was kinda the whole point of the thread. I just wanted
some support and someone to walk me through what were the pitfalls and stuff.  :crying:


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: pros and cons of bulk? [Re: OldHam]
    #18726020 - 08/19/13 05:12 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

If you refuse to understand what pasteurization does then nobody can help you.  You claim that pasteurization is "not at all" your problem with the entire bulk process, then go on to explain your problem with pasteurization over sterilization. 

If you want to sterilize your substrate, go ahead, but find a way to keep your substrate from dirty air while mixing your spawn into it and the entire colonization period.  This is an acceptable way to make huge cakes in bags if that is what you're looking for.  Otherwise you can take the advice of dozens of Trusted Cultivators and noobs alike that says pasteurization is almost idiot-proof.

The pitfalls?  Little to none.  The benefits? Tons of shrooms.

If you want somebody to walk you through this stuff, there are great threads all over that are easily findable through the search function. 


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OfflineLTSwoomz
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Re: pros and cons of bulk? [Re: OldHam] * 1
    #18726022 - 08/19/13 05:13 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Ah ok. Well just remember, pretty much everybody who's anybody has done bulk with great success and pasteurizing the substrate is an integral and none-negotiable part of bulk growing. They wouldn't advocate it if contam risks were extremely high. Your myc is being spawned into extremely friendly growth conditions after theyve already grown and contams are a bunch of spores being introduced to suboptimal conditions and on top of that they have to grow up before they can fight for a place. Eventually your myc will grow old and tired and will begin losing the battle (a few flushes in) and this is the nature of it, all projects eventually end in contams because the myc gets old and can't fight it anymore.


--------------------
My Favorite Links
1st Project Failure
2nd Project Success


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InvisibleOldHam
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Re: pros and cons of bulk? [Re: LTSwoomz]
    #18726035 - 08/19/13 05:21 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LTSwoomz said:
Ah ok. Well just remember, pretty much everybody who's anybody has done bulk with great success and pasteurizing the substrate is an integral and none-negotiable part of bulk growing. They wouldn't advocate it if contam risks were extremely high. Your myc is being spawned into extremely friendly growth conditions after theyve already grown and contams are a bunch of spores being introduced to suboptimal conditions and on top of that they have to grow up before they can fight for a place. Eventually your myc will grow old and tired and will begin losing the battle (a few flushes in) and this is the nature of it, all projects eventually end in contams because the myc gets old and can't fight it anymore.




Hey, thanks! Not really trying to be 'somebody' but I totally get what you're sayin'.
All this talk about pasteurization has gotten me a bit piqued. It's just boiling the
stuff at a certain temp for a while, uh, right? That doesn't seem too hard at all.

I still don't understand fully the minutia of what's happening, down in the microverse of
the monotub, as per the other thread, but it's okay. I'll just need to go to school, or ask a
mycologist or something. :lol: Off to search more about pasteurization... :cheers:

Hope a TC chimes in, but not holding my breath
Again, there were only about a dozen threads on this, and none labelled, 'pros and cons of bulk'...


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OfflineLTSwoomz
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Re: pros and cons of bulk? [Re: OldHam]
    #18726045 - 08/19/13 05:29 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

It's kinda like boiling it, the substrate is put into jars or some other container then put into a pot with some water in it and the heat is turned on. It's heated until the substrate reaches the optimal internal temperature and heat is then turned off because the substrate will continue to rise in temperature on it's own. At this point you set a timer for 60m and let it do it's thing while monitoring that it doesn't over heat. This avoids full sterilization but still kills threats while maintaining the friendlies that help the myc in some way or another.

Frank's Pasteurization Tutorial

I know I've been whoring his links but they're solid gold.

EDIT: I muddled up my explanation, make sure to reread because my info was conflicting and I had to reword it.


--------------------
My Favorite Links
1st Project Failure
2nd Project Success


Edited by LTSwoomz (08/19/13 05:43 AM)


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InvisibleOldHam
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Re: pros and cons of bulk? [Re: LTSwoomz]
    #18726051 - 08/19/13 05:32 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I got 'em all bookmarked and saved to disk...every friggin page. :rotfl: Him, RR and TL, ProfessPinHead a few others...I can't remember all the names here.
Almost a gig of mushroom stuff saved for when I inevitably go offline again...

EDIT: Wow, that's even easier than I expected. Which seemed easy to begin with.
Still, seems like 'bulk' is basically doing a giant g2g with highly nutritious, nonsterilized
substrate, in a relatively open air environment. Hmmm, well...hm. 
:strokebeard3:

The main thing ya got going for ya are the ratio of spawn to sub, and these microbes fucking little monsters
helping to fight off other fungi and molds. Wish there was more info about these little critters. TMC? GGMM?


Edited by OldHam (08/19/13 08:45 AM)


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