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Offlinecircastes
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How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people?
    #18725458 - 08/18/13 11:47 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

What I'm referring to particularly is, how some people are just born completely fucked.

I was walking into a shopping center today and my attention was drawn to a Specialist School bus by their awkward loudness. I saw this fragile young girl in a wheelchair with some kind of syndrome where her body did not form properly.

I felt intense love for her, an intense compassion. Even though I was having a shit day I just kind of melted for a few seconds. She was so cute, she even had a teddy or something.

Life seems pretty damn great. Only one's state of mind really hides this. So there is plenty to embrace in life but how do we make sense of these unfortunate people? That's a living being, born into a hell, she might not even figure out it's a hell.

What's going on there? What is one to do?

Surely one must live for others in life if they are to be satisfied. We are wired like this I believe. So how do we approach a thing like this?

I'm stumped. But I am feeling humble. I always feel humble and sad when I see these buses.


--------------------
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My armour...

TESTED
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OfflineMr. Wilson
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: circastes] * 1
    #18725504 - 08/18/13 11:59 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

things like that make me a little more happy for what I got instead of selfishly thinking about the things I don't--ya know


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: circastes]
    #18725838 - 08/19/13 02:28 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

What I do is focus on my own life and not the troubles of others, if you find some way to help people and decide that's what you want to do then by all means. But when it comes to finding some definite philosophical reason I think the safest bet is to throw up your hands in the beginning and say I don't know.

I'm a musician, my job is to make people happy


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: circastes] * 2
    #18726065 - 08/19/13 05:46 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
What I'm referring to particularly is, how some people are just born completely fucked.

I was walking into a shopping center today and my attention was drawn to a Specialist School bus by their awkward loudness. I saw this fragile young girl in a wheelchair with some kind of syndrome where her body did not form properly.

I felt intense love for her, an intense compassion. Even though I was having a shit day I just kind of melted for a few seconds. She was so cute, she even had a teddy or something.

Life seems pretty damn great. Only one's state of mind really hides this. So there is plenty to embrace in life but how do we make sense of these unfortunate people? That's a living being, born into a hell, she might not even figure out it's a hell.

What's going on there? What is one to do?

Surely one must live for others in life if they are to be satisfied. We are wired like this I believe. So how do we approach a thing like this?

I'm stumped. But I am feeling humble. I always feel humble and sad when I see these buses.




Each person decides this for themselves and there is no right answer.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineviktor
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: circastes]
    #18726081 - 08/19/13 05:56 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

There is more masochism in the world than most people could ever imagine.

How do you know that someone didn't purposely incarnate into the body of a cripple because they got off on feeling helpless?


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: viktor]
    #18726323 - 08/19/13 07:47 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

so some omnibeing with the power to incarnate into any form it desires chooses a cripple because
'lol life's stressful, decisions are hard'?


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Offlineviktor
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: quinn]
    #18726553 - 08/19/13 08:50 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

No, it does so because it realises that there's more to life than power, and the surrender of one's will has a value all of its own.

If you aren't a masochist this will not be easy to understand. But there are people who amputate their own limbs for fetishistic reasons - this would be no different.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: viktor]
    #18726655 - 08/19/13 09:17 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

surrendering one's will is not an escape from power, it is a relation of power..

...that's pretty gnarly.. how about that woman who killed something like of 7 of her kids for the compounded hits of pity ppl were giving her? :tongue:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: circastes]
    #18727101 - 08/19/13 11:27 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

"...she might not even figure out it's a hell"
You saw her happy. Ever wondered why mongoloid people are often happy ?
My guess is, as they "not figure out they are in hell", they are happy because of the good things they already have instead.
Often, trying to make their misery better, makes it worse for them first, because it only was a misery in our eyes.
For example, freeing slaves will make many of them help- and clueless at first. In the long run it will be better, but this might take a time of discomfort for them.

-sorry for my grammar-


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Offlinekennedy
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: circastes]
    #18727285 - 08/19/13 12:10 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
What I'm referring to particularly is, how some people are just born completely fucked.




That kind of thing is partly why I can never believe that 'everything happens for a reason.'


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OfflineSse
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: kennedy]
    #18727359 - 08/19/13 12:24 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Who knows, perhaps the story of infernal rebirths is true

There could be great value in these infernal states of existence

or not? no one knows.

Each life is really just a cosmic millisecond so its not so bad in the long run

whether its good times baby whether its bad times, its the nicest time we will ever have...


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
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InvisibleRahz
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: kennedy] * 1
    #18727373 - 08/19/13 12:27 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Just not a reason you like.

Quote:

How do you know that someone didn't purposely incarnate into the body of a cripple because they got off on feeling helpless?




We don't know that but there's no reason to believe someone who hasn't been born has the power to choose how to exist. I guess that might be one way for people to deal with reality by telling themselves fucked up people choose to be fucked up. That's fucked up. Not your fault. :cookiemonster:


--------------------
rahz

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"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: Sse]
    #18727470 - 08/19/13 12:41 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sse said:
Who knows, perhaps the story of infernal rebirths is true




There's reincarnation, which would level out the fairness of any given situation. Didn't bring that up because its not a logical point, if the belief is not based in experience then its nothing more than a delusion one tells themselves to feel better about the world.

The sea be a cruel mistress
:madpirate:


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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: circastes] * 1
    #18727473 - 08/19/13 12:42 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

You don't know what's going on in her head.
She might be more content than you.


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OfflineSse
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18727592 - 08/19/13 01:10 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

True, even just taking it into consideration makes me feel better about the world. I have no evidence and likely no one else will be able to provide any, so I can't ever say. It sure would bring a lot of sense to the world if it were proven.

It is unfortunate but a lot of good does come from horrible places and nothing is permanent so that helps me to embrace the suffering in this world.


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


Edited by Sse (08/19/13 01:37 PM)


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: Sse]
    #18727834 - 08/19/13 02:17 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sse said:
True, even just taking it into consideration makes me feel better about the world. I have no evidence and likely no one else will be able to provide any




One could provide themselves evidence through meditation, whether they believe the experiences or not is their prerogative


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Invisibletribesman
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18728777 - 08/19/13 05:35 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)



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Offlineviktor
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: Rahz]
    #18729045 - 08/19/13 06:32 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
I guess that might be one way for people to deal with reality by telling themselves fucked up people choose to be fucked up. That's fucked up. Not your fault. :cookiemonster:




What I'm saying is that, from a certain perspective, such a girl isn't fucked up in the slightest.

I have no way of knowing if she deliberately incarnated into such a body or if it was a horrible random fluke. But because I have no evidence for either I won't leap to the conclusion that her life is misery merely because I myself would not like to be in a wheelchair.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: viktor]
    #18732555 - 08/20/13 02:17 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I have no way of knowing if she deliberately incarnated into such a body or if it was a horrible random fluke. But because I have no evidence for either I won't leap to the conclusion that her life is misery merely because I myself would not like to be in a wheelchair.




You also don't know it the god Zandel, or maybe the girls unborn twin sister decided to make her that way. Seems obvious to me genetic abnormalities are semi-random flukes, but there's no evidence to suggest the unborn person could have anything to do with it, or a God or other fantastical inclusion. Chromosome pairs can hold genetic abnormalities or they can form during gestation. She is fucked up by a general standard because she is in a wheelchair with a contorted body, though that's not a de-facto stance on whether she's miserable or not.

I understand the subjective aspect of being fucked up, I'm just protesting the possibility the girl somehow chose her genetic disposition.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: Rahz]
    #18737621 - 08/21/13 02:00 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I guess a possible way to understand it would be to acknowledge that we don't know WHAT we are. We may exist on other planes and our purpose in Nature could be highly strange. Our culture is the only reasonable, normal thing in existence. Nothing in Nature is ordinary. Our bodies are not ordinary. The nature of reality is not "ordinary".

So I guess a way out of feeling bad about all this is, we don't know what is happening, return to first principles.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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Offlineurbannerd
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: circastes]
    #18737653 - 08/21/13 02:05 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe the messed up in their past lives and this is the universes way of showing them how to appreciate the finer things like living a healthy life (physically and mentally)


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Offlineviktor
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: circastes]
    #18739509 - 08/21/13 08:15 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
I guess a possible way to understand it would be to acknowledge that we don't know WHAT we are. We may exist on other planes and our purpose in Nature could be highly strange. Our culture is the only reasonable, normal thing in existence. Nothing in Nature is ordinary. Our bodies are not ordinary. The nature of reality is not "ordinary".

So I guess a way out of feeling bad about all this is, we don't know what is happening, return to first principles.




I agree with all of this. The only thing I know is cogito ergo sum, therefore I cannot be sure whether such a girl got her body from a genetic defect or because the collective consciousness decided to incarnate in such a body for reasons that my little individual mind cannot grasp.

When I see people like this I suspend judgment about whether it's good or bad. I assume there's a purpose to it that I'd understand if I needed to.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Offlineurbannerd
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: viktor]
    #18739921 - 08/21/13 09:30 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:

When I see people like this I suspend judgment about whether it's good or bad. I assume there's a purpose to it that I'd understand if I needed to.





this.


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Soaking in the energy of the universe since '91


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: viktor]
    #18740685 - 08/22/13 02:07 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
I agree with all of this. The only thing I know is cogito ergo sum, therefore I cannot be sure whether such a girl got her body from a genetic defect or because the collective consciousness decided to incarnate in such a body for reasons that my little individual mind cannot grasp.




cogito does not give you a pass to flatten all knowledge as equal or pick and choose whatever you want :tongue:
Quote:


When I see people like this I suspend judgment about whether it's good or bad. I assume there's a purpose to it that I'd understand if I needed to.



why would you assume a purpose?


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: circastes]
    #18740696 - 08/22/13 02:13 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
I guess a possible way to understand it would be to acknowledge that we don't know WHAT we are. We may exist on other planes and our purpose in Nature could be highly strange. Our culture is the only reasonable, normal thing in existence. Nothing in Nature is ordinary.



if you don't know what you are how can you claim to know what your whole culture is?.. it doesn't seem that normal to me :tongue:


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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: quinn]
    #18742235 - 08/22/13 12:40 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
Quote:

viktor said:
I agree with all of this. The only thing I know is cogito ergo sum, therefore I cannot be sure whether such a girl got her body from a genetic defect or because the collective consciousness decided to incarnate in such a body for reasons that my little individual mind cannot grasp.




cogito does not give you a pass to flatten all knowledge as equal or pick and choose whatever you want :tongue:




In context it might, he did say "the only thing I know is cogito ergo sum" which would suggest it is the only thing he holds as inherently true.


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InvisibleHalfLight
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18743239 - 08/22/13 04:32 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Well, evolution happens through genetic mutations that are desirable, and ignorance is bliss, as any intelligent and knowledgeable person who observes the emotions of people with diseases such as down syndrome knows. So if we want to be happy, should we all not attempt to, in our opinion, lose intellect?
Edit: I am not suggesting mating with the mentally handicapped in order to genetically engineer a more emotionally stable child. That would be a disgusting, immoral thing to do. The reason these people are happy is because of their innocence.


--------------------
dead man walking


Edited by HalfLight (08/22/13 04:33 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: HalfLight]
    #18743390 - 08/22/13 05:05 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

The reason these people are happy is because of their innocence.


And I'll bet a lot of that innocence is a inability to grok in fullness the idea of death and impermanence.  Oh how lucky for them.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: Icelander]
    #18743580 - 08/22/13 05:55 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

If you do things to help and comfort these people to make their life more enjoyable, you will find your life more enjoyable as well.


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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: Labs4858] * 1
    #18743595 - 08/22/13 05:59 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Speak for yourself.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: Labs4858]
    #18743599 - 08/22/13 06:00 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

There is a reason Sparta killed weak and ill-formed babies.


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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #18743671 - 08/22/13 06:16 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Not just Sparta and there was good reason.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: Icelander]
    #18743750 - 08/22/13 06:35 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Speak for yourself.




Agreed 100%


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InvisibleHalfLight
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #18743874 - 08/22/13 07:00 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
There is a reason Sparta killed weak and ill-formed babies.



Well that came off a little harsh...
I don't know, as someone with scoliosis I wouldn't be allowed to reproduce in a society that held such beliefs, and really, I'm not sure I want to. Partially because of that, but just bringing a child into a world that will continue to get worse seems cruel, especially when I probably won't have the assets at that age to care for them. Eh, idk, that just sounded a bit cruel to someone with my own genetics :shrug:


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: circastes]
    #18743969 - 08/22/13 07:18 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
Life seems pretty damn great. Only one's state of mind really hides this. So there is plenty to embrace in life but how do we make sense of these unfortunate people? That's a living being, born into a hell, she might not even figure out it's a hell.




I make sense of these unfortunate people by coming to the conclusion that sometimes people get lucky and live wonderful, happy lives, and sometimes people get shit on by life and spend their years in misery only to die alone.  The Universe doesn't care either way.  Looking for some kind of deeper meaning or reason that justifies human suffering is a fool's errand, IMO.

Quote:

circastes said:
Surely one must live for others in life if they are to be satisfied. We are wired like this I believe. So how do we approach a thing like this?




I am most satisfied when I live for myself.  However a smart selfish decision on my part would be to behave altruistically to others on occasion: not only because we are social animals and companionship is almost always necessary to our happiness but because people tend to reciprocate favors and acting in a way that hurts other people all the time usually produces rather negative repercussions for one's self.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: HalfLight]
    #18743981 - 08/22/13 07:21 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

never mind any demonstrations of satisfaction with life!

unsatisfactoriness is fundamental.

however, we do have or have had peak experiences and we are capable of cultivating health, mindfulness, and attitudes that support more health and mindfulness.

when I say health I include physical balance, and even exhilaration from time to time when suitable and possible.

it is worth doing for yourself,
and for those who can take a hint,
it is a good model for monkey see, monkey do.

some can't,
so you do what you can with that.

Sparta was crude, maybe cruel, but so were many of our ancestors, and ourselves from time to time, and I do not want to get down on myself right now as it is not productive.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: HalfLight]
    #18743983 - 08/22/13 07:22 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

TryinToTrip said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
There is a reason Sparta killed weak and ill-formed babies.



Well that came off a little harsh...
I don't know, as someone with scoliosis I wouldn't be allowed to reproduce in a society that held such beliefs, and really, I'm not sure I want to. Partially because of that, but just bringing a child into a world that will continue to get worse seems cruel, especially when I probably won't have the assets at that age to care for them. Eh, idk, that just sounded a bit cruel to someone with my own genetics :shrug:




Then toughen up.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHalfLight
.
I'm a teapot


Registered: 06/03/13
Posts: 2,322
Loc: Black Flag
Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: Icelander]
    #18743997 - 08/22/13 07:24 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

TryinToTrip said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
There is a reason Sparta killed weak and ill-formed babies.



Well that came off a little harsh...
I don't know, as someone with scoliosis I wouldn't be allowed to reproduce in a society that held such beliefs, and really, I'm not sure I want to. Partially because of that, but just bringing a child into a world that will continue to get worse seems cruel, especially when I probably won't have the assets at that age to care for them. Eh, idk, that just sounded a bit cruel to someone with my own genetics :shrug:




Then toughen up.



:loldongs:
Calm your horses. I had my back sliced open all the way down the middle and titanium fused to it. Might as well be a spartan.


--------------------
dead man walking


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InvisibleRepertoire89
Cat
Male


Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: HalfLight]
    #18744106 - 08/22/13 07:52 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

TryinToTrip said:

:loldongs:
Calm your horses. I had my back sliced open all the way down the middle and titanium fused to it. Might as well be a spartan.




:manofapproval:


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: HalfLight]
    #18744107 - 08/22/13 07:53 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I went a week without donuts. :brucelee:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRepertoire89
Cat
Male


Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
Re: How are we to embrace life when things go so wrong for some people? [Re: Icelander]
    #18744165 - 08/22/13 08:06 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I went a week without donuts. :brucelee:




Once as a teenager I shaved my beard, almost became a homosexual


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