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GEncore
Authentic



Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 2,654
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Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit?
#18724435 - 08/18/13 07:44 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Let's get some discussion going. I don't think i've ever seen a more divisive topic
i am genuinely curious in this practice I think there's something to it
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rackem



Registered: 11/27/09
Posts: 14,024
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: GEncore]
#18724443 - 08/18/13 07:47 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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i think it has its place in life. but i also think it has its boundaries.
my doctor growing up was a homeopathic doctor with a phd. alot of things i had to take for sickness or allergies didnt have big pharma behind them
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: GEncore] 1
#18724451 - 08/18/13 07:50 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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From what I understand, they often dilute things to the point where there can't possibly be any of the original substance left. I suppose a "drug" with no active ingredient is at least not going to actively harm you.
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passifloracaerulea



Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 10,485
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: psi]
#18724496 - 08/18/13 08:01 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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the only way to know for sure is to test it. i'd say if the ipecac actually stops vomiting then maybe there's something to it, but how would you know if it was the homeopathic or just your immune system stopping the vomiting or even a placebo effect.
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: GEncore]
#18724528 - 08/18/13 08:10 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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-- A team in South Korea has discovered a whole new dimension to just about the simplest chemical reaction in the book - what happens when you dissolve a substance in water and then add more water. Conventional wisdom says that the dissolved molecules simply spread further and further apart as a solution is diluted. But two chemists have found that some do the opposite: they clump together, first as clusters of molecules, then as bigger aggregates of those clusters. Far from drifting apart from their neighbours, they got closer together. The discovery has stunned chemists, and could provide the first scientific insight into how some homeopathic remedies work.
Read more... http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1532-bizarre-chemical-discovery-gives-homeopathic-hint.html --
-- physicist Louis Rey in Lausanne, Switzerland, has published a paper in the mainstream journal, Physica A, describing experiments that suggest water does have a memory of molecules that have been diluted away, as can be demonstrated by a relatively new physical technique that measures thermoluminescence
Read more... http://www.i-sis.org.uk/WaterRemembers.php --
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brokentv

Registered: 03/02/12
Posts: 2,417
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: s240779]
#18724561 - 08/18/13 08:17 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I've had some good results using this cream called traumeel which is homeopathic.
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 2,717
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: s240779] 2
#18724571 - 08/18/13 08:19 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Placebo, nothing more, nothing less.
If Homeopathy worked there would be no drug shortages. Out of E? Dissolve one tab in a swimming pool full of water. Take a cup from that pool and pour it into another swimming pool, then take a cup from that pool and pour it in another swimming pool, making sure to stir each time. According to Homeopathy the waters ability to remember your E means you now have a swimming pool full of clean doses! Happy roll!
(It's important not to confuse the theory with the product though, some "homeopathic" products have been found to contain sizable amounts of active ingredients *oops*)
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: StygianKnight]
#18725002 - 08/18/13 09:57 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Part of their theory is that a tiny amount of something will have the opposite effect that a large amount would have, so that example is a little off from what is actually claimed. You would think that there would be some homepathic recreational drugs if diluting things by a crazy amount really produced dramatic physiological effects. I suppose you would have to start with a drug that produced the opposite effect you were trying to achieve though.
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GEncore
Authentic



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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: StygianKnight]
#18725026 - 08/18/13 10:01 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
StygianKnight said: Placebo, nothing more, nothing less.
If Homeopathy worked there would be no drug shortages. Out of E? Dissolve one tab in a swimming pool full of water. Take a cup from that pool and pour it into another swimming pool, then take a cup from that pool and pour it in another swimming pool, making sure to stir each time. According to Homeopathy the waters ability to remember your E means you now have a swimming pool full of clean doses! Happy roll!
(It's important not to confuse the theory with the product though, some "homeopathic" products have been found to contain sizable amounts of active ingredients *oops*)
your logic is flawed due to lack of knowledge of the homeopathy theory
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: s240779]
#18725036 - 08/18/13 10:02 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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There is a homeopathic LSD experiment. Skip to the "Provers" section.
http://www.hominf.org/lsd/lsdframe.htm
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passifloracaerulea



Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 10,485
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: psi]
#18725075 - 08/18/13 10:09 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
psi said: Part of their theory is that a tiny amount of something will have the opposite effect that a large amount would have, so that example is a little off from what is actually claimed. You would think that there would be some homepathic recreational drugs if diluting things by a crazy amount really produced dramatic physiological effects. I suppose you would have to start with a drug that produced the opposite effect you were trying to achieve though.
homeopathic meth to go to sleep!
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 2,717
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: GEncore]
#18725154 - 08/18/13 10:22 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
GEncore said:
your logic is flawed due to lack of knowledge of the homeopathy theory
Oh do please explain this theory!
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CounterCulturest
-Positive Mental Attitude-

Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 3,662
Loc: Nesting on modems
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I think it depends on the situation, buts that is obvious. I have always gone to a homeo doctor and I don't think I would switch. I've always been happy with it. Western medicine is horrible. We are good at injuries, surgeries and mechanical shit but when it comes to diseases and sickness we don't know our asshole from our elbow.
But yeah sorry. I don't have anything to really add to the thread. Just sayin'
Check out Ayurveda bro. My sister is a anesthetist and she says that she knows many doctors that fly out of the country to get treated by an Indian Ayurveda practicing doctor because it's way more effective then the shitty drugs we have going on here. It sounds like a growing trend. I first heard about it via netflix documentary. If you are like learning about medicine you need to check it out. It's very fucking cool. One of the best documentaries I have ever seen.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: StygianKnight]
#18725179 - 08/18/13 10:27 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
StygianKnight said:
Quote:
GEncore said: your logic is flawed due to lack of knowledge of the homeopathy theory
Oh do please explain this theory! 
"Like cures like" is one of the main tenets, they claim that tiny amounts of poison ivy will treat itching and so forth.
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: s240779]
#18725214 - 08/18/13 10:35 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Most people confuse homeopathy with naturopathy.
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CounterCulturest
-Positive Mental Attitude-

Registered: 01/18/10
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: s240779]
#18725245 - 08/18/13 10:42 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Da2ra said: Most people confuse homeopathy with naturopathy.
Yeah for sure. I don't think there are that many homeopathy doctors kicking around is there ? Eh. Probably more than naturopathy, which I'm considering trying if I come down with any serious illness. Really wanna get into ayurveda.
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CounterCulturest
-Positive Mental Attitude-

Registered: 01/18/10
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One thing that blows about homeopathy is they mindset on pain. I have seen all the doctors in the building I go to and so has my family. For my whole life. They wont' give out pain pills for shit. Or any abusable pills for that matter. I had 2 herniated discs (mri evidence and all) and my doc just laughs when I bring up the pain.
But not handing out pills is a good thing I suppose. I respect it. Just sucks when you really need them.
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passifloracaerulea



Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 10,485
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I've gone to many naturopathic doctors and they do a lot of herbal prescribing and use homeopathy a lot. you can learn a lot from them but their treatments are complete bullshit as far as i'm concerned, except for the now outlawed vega allergy test and dietary advice.
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OyBroop
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: GEncore]
#18727196 - 08/19/13 11:48 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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i call bullshit. i have some... fuck, my minds drawing a blank. they are meant for relaxation and i got them free from wonder labs. they are homeopathy and they do not do shit.
oh, valerian root pills
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Cyclohexylamine
Turn on, Tune in, Drop out



Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 14,327
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: GEncore]
#18727255 - 08/19/13 12:03 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yes Homeopathy is Bullshit.
Here is a good article that explains why it is b.s. It is long, and has a lot of detail, but if you are truly interested then you will read it..
http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/04/the-pseudoscience-behind-homeopathy/
-------------------- Yes this is tymo - I just changed my name Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to awake from that dream? How would you know the difference between that dream world and the real world? There is NOTHING better than feeling that warm dissociative fuzz creeping up your body from IM K Something abut that anaesthetic rush... Qualitative Research Chemical Effects and Experiences The Wonderful World of Methoxetamine The 3-Meo-PCP Chapters, Part One
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Shroomerited


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If alternative medicine worked it would just be called medicine.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: psi]
#18727329 - 08/19/13 12:17 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
psi said: From what I understand, they often dilute things to the point where there can't possibly be any of the original substance left. I suppose a "drug" with no active ingredient is at least not going to actively harm you.
the problem in that logic is that you think you're getting treatment while you arent and that causes harm
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OyBroop
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: Shroomerited]
#18727367 - 08/19/13 12:26 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomerited said: If alternative medicine worked it would just be called medicine.
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passifloracaerulea



Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 10,485
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: OyBroop]
#18727388 - 08/19/13 12:29 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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the same people who advise you to use homeopathy are the same doctors that believe ear candles work. I tried ear candles once to see if they worked and a lot of gunk built up that did look like ear wax. I then burnt a candle without sticking it in my ear and the same exact gunk formed and in the same amount, complete bullshit. try getting someone who uses these things to believe this or even get them to do their own experiments. they just want to believe for the most part.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#18727458 - 08/19/13 12:39 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
psi said: From what I understand, they often dilute things to the point where there can't possibly be any of the original substance left. I suppose a "drug" with no active ingredient is at least not going to actively harm you.
the problem in that logic is that you think you're getting treatment while you arent and that causes harm
Perhaps if there is some actually effective treatment you're forgoing because you believe that, but in itself the placebo treatment is not harming you. If the original complaint was imagined anyway, then not being treated when you think you are can be a good thing. Alternately, if you have a real but untreatable condition (or a treatable condition that you personally wouldn't have the means to obtain treatment for,) a little false hope may not necessarily be a bad thing either.
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OyBroop
Stranger

Registered: 08/19/13
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i used to live next to a "hippie" type family when i was younger and one day her daughter babysat. we ended up going to the pool and later that day i guess i had got water in my ear and it started to bug the shit out of me. the mom had me lay on my side while she rolled up a newspaper then lit the shit on fire. she let it burn for a bit, then blew the flame out. she then proceeded to blow the smoke into my ear.
shit was weird. fucking hippies and their mumbo jumbo magic...
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GEncore
Authentic



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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: OyBroop]
#18727544 - 08/19/13 12:59 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Homeopathy ideally is not used as a treatment for a disease. you go to real medicine for that. it's meant to be used for every day life to feel better. when youre already healthy. kinda like weed (which is also medicine), except no high
that's the idea anyway. it could also be a replacement for sleeping pills, anxiety pills, menopause management etc
I'm not buying it just yet but it doesnt seem crazy
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nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: GEncore]
#18727559 - 08/19/13 01:02 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I use natural and homeopathic remedies when they work. If I've got a major infection or something though, I'm goin for the antibiotics.
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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GEncore
Authentic



Registered: 07/19/10
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: nicechrisman]
#18727565 - 08/19/13 01:02 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
nicechrisman said: I use natural and homeopathic remedies when they work. If I've got a major infection or something though, I'm goin for the antibiotics.
thats what youre supposed to do yeah
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: GEncore]
#18727569 - 08/19/13 01:03 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
GEncore said: Homeopathy ideally is not used as a treatment for a disease. you go to real medicine for that. it's meant to be used for every day life to feel better. when youre already healthy.
I don't know where you heard that.
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CounterCulturest
-Positive Mental Attitude-

Registered: 01/18/10
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: s240779]
#18727863 - 08/19/13 02:22 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'll take my chances with homeo/natural medicine before I go with western practice. The drugs these people prescribe can be horrible horrible "medicines". I got floxxed once from a flouroqiunolone antibiotic that ruined me for 4 months. 4 pills gave me a 4 month case of fibromyalgia. Since then I have treated the same infection with high vitamin c doses and acids and it works just as quickly. A lot of the time there is no other option. But if you have something wrong and you go cling to a western doc, odds are good that he is going to give you some shit that will give you side effects worse than your previous condition.
From what I understand the guidelines that drugs are written up for are created by the pharmaceutical companies. And I think most of us here know the nature of big pharma.
I don't think it's doctors being evil, money hungry or lacking care I just think they system they are in can be whack. Most docs won't even listen to you and as they are just writing up a prescription and letting the door hit your ass on the way out. I would like to see doctors that practice it all. Pill popping, natural, homeo... whatever it takes. They shouldn't stick to pills and expensive treatments. They should always try to find a good cheap natural cure for you first. But then again, medicine is a money making business so it will always have that edge
Anymore unless I need some help with my back pain I just go to a local vitality store and these natural herb pushing folk have been more help to me over the years and they don't bullshit me since they aren't making money off me in the same way. My mom does this as well and she is doing way better than when she wen't to the doctors. She fixed her depression, skin and hair looks great and her knee and joint issues are all better now. Before, her physician just gave her shit pills that didn't do anything but empty her wallet.
I think people should spend more time reading online about their conditions and try to fix it themselves before they go cling to a doctor that may not even give a sit about you. You gotta look after yourself. These medicine cabinets full of pills have got to go !
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passifloracaerulea



Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 10,485
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herbs and tinctures definitely work for the right conditions and if grown and prepared properly. we all know that valerian works, especially on cats. my cats even lap up valerian tincture and get all high then go to sleep.
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: s240779]
#18727922 - 08/19/13 02:33 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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As I said, don't confuse homeopathy with naturopathy. The former is a radical subset of the latter.
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Legend
RIP Sasha



Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 28,336
Loc: TX
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: OyBroop]
#18727994 - 08/19/13 02:47 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
OyBroop said: i call bullshit. i have some... fuck, my minds drawing a blank. they are meant for relaxation and i got them free from wonder labs. they are homeopathy and they do not do shit.
oh, valerian root pills
oh you got bunk vlaerian root them.
valerian is very much active.
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No sympathy for the devil, keep that in mind. [url=]Buy the ticket, take the ride. [/url]Are you lost?
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Legend
RIP Sasha



Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 28,336
Loc: TX
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: Shroomerited]
#18727999 - 08/19/13 02:49 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomerited said: If alternative medicine worked it would just be called medicine.
bold words for someone who's never tried a decent alternative medicine.
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No sympathy for the devil, keep that in mind. [url=]Buy the ticket, take the ride. [/url]Are you lost?
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: Shroomerited]
#18728033 - 08/19/13 02:56 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomerited said: If alternative medicine worked it would just be called medicine.
Ideally any effective treatment "should" be absorbed into mainstream medicine, but really there is no guarantee of that in practice.
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 2 months, 9 days
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: psi]
#18728040 - 08/19/13 02:57 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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OyBroop
Stranger

Registered: 08/19/13
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: Legend]
#18728114 - 08/19/13 03:10 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Legend said:
Quote:
OyBroop said: i call bullshit. i have some... fuck, my minds drawing a blank. they are meant for relaxation and i got them free from wonder labs. they are homeopathy and they do not do shit.
oh, valerian root pills
oh you got bunk vlaerian root them.
valerian is very much active.
i think im expecting something to actually happen...
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NotTheDevil
Transhuman


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 5,436
Loc: US
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: OyBroop]
#18728163 - 08/19/13 03:19 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Valerian effects gaba and can cause similar withdrawal to benzos and alcohol, so it probably is active. That said homeopathy is complete bull bologna.
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 2 months, 9 days
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: s240779]
#18728188 - 08/19/13 03:24 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Legend
RIP Sasha



Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 28,336
Loc: TX
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: OyBroop]
#18728199 - 08/19/13 03:27 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
OyBroop said:
Quote:
Legend said:
Quote:
OyBroop said: i call bullshit. i have some... fuck, my minds drawing a blank. they are meant for relaxation and i got them free from wonder labs. they are homeopathy and they do not do shit.
oh, valerian root pills
oh you got bunk vlaerian root them.
valerian is very much active.
i think im expecting something to actually happen...
are you calling me a liar?
--------------------
No sympathy for the devil, keep that in mind. [url=]Buy the ticket, take the ride. [/url]Are you lost?
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: NotTheDevil] 1
#18728203 - 08/19/13 03:27 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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If they truly are homeopathic valerian pills then they probably contain very little valerian. Valproic acid is used in epilepsy treatment today and it's pretty similar to the isovaleric acid found in valerian (and foot sweat, which is why valerian smells a bit like stinky feet.)
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 2 months, 9 days
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: psi]
#18728222 - 08/19/13 03:31 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
psi said: If they truly are homeopathic valerian pills then they probably contain very little valerian.
Most people think "homeopathy" is a synonym for alternative medicine. This is a matter of confusion. This is homeopathy:
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Dr.Tooty
Eye see you.


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Quote:
CounterCulturest said: I would like to see doctors that practice it all. Pill popping, natural, homeo... whatever it takes. They shouldn't stick to pills and expensive treatments. They should always try to find a good cheap natural cure for you first. But then again, medicine is a money making business so it will always have that edge:(
Pills and expensive treatments are the ones covered by HMO's...not homeopathic treatment...most of which lack efficacy, btw. But I agree. it sucks that most of the time we're just stuck with the treatment they want to give us.
-------------------- "I get up, I get down." Insect Forum
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: psi]
#18728373 - 08/19/13 03:59 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
psi said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
psi said: From what I understand, they often dilute things to the point where there can't possibly be any of the original substance left. I suppose a "drug" with no active ingredient is at least not going to actively harm you.
the problem in that logic is that you think you're getting treatment while you arent and that causes harm
Perhaps if there is some actually effective treatment you're forgoing because you believe that, but in itself the placebo treatment is not harming you. If the original complaint was imagined anyway, then not being treated when you think you are can be a good thing. Alternately, if you have a real but untreatable condition (or a treatable condition that you personally wouldn't have the means to obtain treatment for,) a little false hope may not necessarily be a bad thing either.
so bilking someone out of their cash for placebo while claiming it'll help isnt harm, where I'm from it's called fraud but with this crap it's hard to prosecute because they make vague claims in most cases
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
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Re: Homeopathy: bullshit or not bullshit? [Re: Legend]
#18728414 - 08/19/13 04:11 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's all in how it's represented. IMO people should be free to pay for bullshit treatments if they want, just as they're free to pay a psychic for bullshit predictions etc.
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