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Offlinecrkhd
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The fundamental question of the human mind is not whether God exists or not
    #18722551 - 08/18/13 11:51 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

The true question from which all things arise is:

Who hurt you and why did they do it?



Through the exploration of this question, the God is found/rejected. But the debate of God is completely vain because secretly you can see the strings of trauma tugging beneath. Trauma generates attachment, and desire/attachment veils the sight of true knowing, knowing beyond the need to speak.


We are all open books, but only those with a more refined compassion can see it. Which is a great failsafe!


Deep within the atheist is not a rejection of God. It is a rejection of hope.


And fundamentally it is a question along these lines:


A.) If I were hurt in way X, would someone or something else heal me if they had knowledge Y where Y is the healing of X?

B.) If I were in a position where I stood to gain from knowledge Y at the expense of others experiencing trauma X, would I take advantage?



In the atheist they have lost all hope because they have said to the second question, yes, they would take advantage. The resulting cognitive dissonance between the hurt self X and that desire obliterates all hope in God, all hope in Love. The person, as the closest entity to themselves, is unwilling to hug their little self and tell them everything is going to be fine.

Then the immediate answer to question A is no. That there is no someone else. That the world is full of suffering and nobody cares.


They would be willing to disregard those traumas for the sake of that gain, they would be willing to deal that trauma to other innocent souls for the sake of that gain. Within themselves is a desire to be great. Not in the way of goodly greatness but in the way of "look at that mortal and celebrate him as a god amongst men"




I arrived at this understanding, not through therapy but via Game Theory. The joys of mathematics... And say I, good thing this world is transient, and thank God for death.


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific


Edited by crkhd (08/18/13 12:03 PM)


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: The fundamental question of the human mind is not whether God exists or not [Re: crkhd]
    #18722765 - 08/18/13 12:51 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Pretty good ideas here.

The God question has an unexpected twist in this age. Oneself is God, yet we are all about individual ego and the transcendence of God or it has been rationalized out of existence. The individual ego is what makes one think they are different from anything else. God's transcendence even takes God out of this existence, let alone the present moment, where you and God are. The intense rationality of the age makes people so sure of things, and being so sure of their meaningless universe they think it's all "natural selection" and life is tough and you have to be a Stoic.

It's all nonsense. God is at play with God, God alone exists, everything else even the most insane torments are illusions. God always returns to God. It is not hard to do, merely recognize Yourself.

We're in a pretty absurd age. Before civilization every man and woman would have known they are God, just as is common in China, Japan and India still. The mysterious East has not rationalized God out of existence. Most Indians I meet in Australia know the Self and we connect like that.

All is One. Who else could that be?


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The fundamental question of the human mind is not whether God exists or not [Re: crkhd]
    #18722820 - 08/18/13 01:14 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Well there is some truth in what you say but it's not that black and white imo.  I would say I have no hope in some things and some hope in others.  It often takes great courage to admit there may not be a god caretaker but not always of course.  You'd have to take everyone on a case by case basis.  I do agree with your last sentence for the most part.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: The fundamental question of the human mind is not whether God exists or not [Re: crkhd]
    #18723057 - 08/18/13 02:23 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

crkhd said:
A.) If I were hurt in way X, would someone or something else heal me if they had knowledge Y where Y is the healing of X?

B.) If I were in a position where I stood to gain from knowledge Y at the expense of others experiencing trauma X, would I take advantage?




A.)  Depends on my circumstances.  Maybe yes, maybe no.

B.)  Depends on my circumstances.  If knowledge Y is worth enough, then yes.  If it's not worth enough, then no.

Quote:

crkhd said:
Deep within the atheist is not a rejection of God. It is a rejection of hope.




Ironically I think the opposite is true.  Realizing there is no God is the only path to realizing true freedom, and that freedom gives me the most hope out of anything.  :psychsplit:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: The fundamental question of the human mind is not whether God exists or not [Re: Icelander]
    #18726061 - 08/19/13 05:44 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Well there is some truth in what you say but it's not that black and white imo.  I would say I have no hope in some things and some hope in others.  It often takes great courage to admit there may not be a god caretaker but not always of course.  You'd have to take everyone on a case by case basis.  I do agree with your last sentence for the most part.





It does take great courage to admit there may be no God. However, it takes far greater courage to trust God, wholly and completely. Are you up for that challenge?


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: The fundamental question of the human mind is not whether God exists or not [Re: deCypher]
    #18726069 - 08/19/13 05:48 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

crkhd said:
A.) If I were hurt in way X, would someone or something else heal me if they had knowledge Y where Y is the healing of X?

B.) If I were in a position where I stood to gain from knowledge Y at the expense of others experiencing trauma X, would I take advantage?




A.)  Depends on my circumstances.  Maybe yes, maybe no.

B.)  Depends on my circumstances.  If knowledge Y is worth enough, then yes.  If it's not worth enough, then no.

Quote:

crkhd said:
Deep within the atheist is not a rejection of God. It is a rejection of hope.




Ironically I think the opposite is true.  Realizing there is no God is the only path to realizing true freedom, and that freedom gives me the most hope out of anything.  :psychsplit:





How can you have freedom without God? Your freedom will be limited by the laws of physics and the unbearable constraints that come with having a physical body. In fact, these constraints are so severe that life from the bodily point of view is known as bondage in Buddhism and Hinduism. We can only experience true freedom, when we transcend the limitations our body poses for us. Otherwise, we will constantly find our freedom restricted by the needs of the body.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The fundamental question of the human mind is not whether God exists or not [Re: Deviate]
    #18726074 - 08/19/13 05:51 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Well there is some truth in what you say but it's not that black and white imo.  I would say I have no hope in some things and some hope in others.  It often takes great courage to admit there may not be a god caretaker but not always of course.  You'd have to take everyone on a case by case basis.  I do agree with your last sentence for the most part.





It does take great courage to admit there may be no God. However, it takes far greater courage to trust God, wholly and completely. Are you up for that challenge?




No.  I would lose all respect for myself.  It would be like stealing from close friends.  Something I've decided is unsportsmanlike.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: The fundamental question of the human mind is not whether God exists or not [Re: Icelander]
    #18726112 - 08/19/13 06:12 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe loss of self respect is what is needed to destroy the pride that sustains the ego.


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Offlineviktor
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Re: The fundamental question of the human mind is not whether God exists or not [Re: Deviate]
    #18726145 - 08/19/13 06:30 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Maybe loss of self respect is what is needed to destroy the pride that sustains the ego.




Cool. Come to my house and live in my cellar. I'll pimp you out to the local gangbangers to pay for your food and upkeep.

Wassamatter, you too chicken? Bork bork bork buck-awk!


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The fundamental question of the human mind is not whether God exists or not [Re: Deviate]
    #18726259 - 08/19/13 07:14 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Maybe loss of self respect is what is needed to destroy the pride that sustains the ego.




If you don't respect yourself how do you respect others or anything else? Self respect and pride is not the same thing imo. Pride is thinking one knows things as a surety imo.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The fundamental question of the human mind is not whether God exists or not [Re: Icelander]
    #18728435 - 08/19/13 04:17 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Nono, pride only comes after victory :wink:


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: The fundamental question of the human mind is not whether God exists or not [Re: crkhd]
    #18728603 - 08/19/13 04:57 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

crkhd said:
The true question from which all things arise is:

Who hurt you and why did they do it?




I agree with this. It seeks to question cause & effect, as well as the nature of reality on a very deep level (as well as ethics and values, and probably other things that "god" raises, too). It is also much more tangible than "does god exist?" and so I think relates to more people.

Trauma begets trauma. Suffering perpetuates itself. I think the one who hurts you is likely hurting themselves, both in in the sense that their actions will have undesirable consequences and that they are experiencing suffering.


--------------------
full blown human


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