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Offlinelolwut
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Spiritual Achievements
    #18721852 - 08/18/13 06:51 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Like most things in life people want to feel like they have/are achieving something and this doesn't seem to be any different in the world of spirituality.

Some examples often touted as if they were achievements that come to mind are things like "waking up", "remembering" who they were, "dissolving/dropping/destroying" the ego, "becoming one" with the universe, "unconditional love" becoming present to themselves for good, figuring out the answers, talking to god, "seeing" things clearly and so on.

These things and many more are often talked about proudly, as if they have any real/objective meaning to other people and are tangible, for example "I scored 90% on a test, and I dissolved my ego to experience unconditional love".

At it's core, spirituality is a personal journey inwards geared towards further understanding of oneself and through attrition understanding other people. While I have no idea why exactly people are keen to promote their ideas in a sense of achievement (perhaps it's ego boost, or to make themselves feel like they haven't been wasting their time, or to show off, or to gain a reputation, etc) it's clear to me that any real progress in spirituality is almost always completely subjective (although often in search for the objective) so any real progress cannot be proudly talked about or self-promoted as it has little to no real meaning in other people's worldviews. However, it can be measured through things like maturity level, compassion displayed, understanding, wisdom, courage, and personal power - and all of these are unable to be displayed as "I have increased my X by a factor of %" but are displayed throughout the individual's life.

For these reasons I am very skeptical of anyone claiming spiritual knowledge or wisdom or anything that sounds like they feel like they've achieved something.


--------------------
Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth, and taste...

:haha:


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: Spiritual Achievements [Re: lolwut]
    #18721876 - 08/18/13 07:07 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I dropped all the demons in my room with karmic head shots, yielding a 5% boost to my kundalini accumulation rate.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Spiritual Achievements [Re: lolwut]
    #18721919 - 08/18/13 07:35 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

lolwut said:
Like most things in life people want to feel like they have/are achieving something and this doesn't seem to be any different in the world of spirituality.

Some examples often touted as if they were achievements that come to mind are things like "waking up", "remembering" who they were, "dissolving/dropping/destroying" the ego, "becoming one" with the universe, "unconditional love" becoming present to themselves for good, figuring out the answers, talking to god, "seeing" things clearly and so on.

These things and many more are often talked about proudly, as if they have any real/objective meaning to other people and are tangible, for example "I scored 90% on a test, and I dissolved my ego to experience unconditional love".

At it's core, spirituality is a personal journey inwards geared towards further understanding of oneself and through attrition understanding other people. While I have no idea why exactly people are keen to promote their ideas in a sense of achievement (perhaps it's ego boost, or to make themselves feel like they haven't been wasting their time, or to show off, or to gain a reputation, etc) it's clear to me that any real progress in spirituality is almost always completely subjective (although often in search for the objective) so any real progress cannot be proudly talked about or self-promoted as it has little to no real meaning in other people's worldviews. However, it can be measured through things like maturity level, compassion displayed, understanding, wisdom, courage, and personal power - and all of these are unable to be displayed as "I have increased my X by a factor of %" but are displayed throughout the individual's life.

For these reasons I am very skeptical of anyone claiming spiritual knowledge or wisdom or anything that sounds like they feel like they've achieved something.





An absolutely excellent post imo.  I couldn't agree more. :mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Spiritual Achievements [Re: lolwut]
    #18723341 - 08/18/13 03:27 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Spiritual Skepticism achievement unlocked!

+3000 good karma points


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflineSse
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Re: Spiritual Achievements [Re: lolwut]
    #18723368 - 08/18/13 03:33 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Do you feel you've achieved anything? Endurance, patience, emotional strength?


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Spiritual Achievements [Re: Sse]
    #18723594 - 08/18/13 04:19 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

it's all about unlocking the higher powers :pimpin:


--------------------



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Invisibletribesman
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Re: Spiritual Achievements [Re: lolwut]
    #18723764 - 08/18/13 05:05 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Spiritual achievement?

Now that's an oxymoron if ever I heard one.  :facepalm:


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InvisiblePsilopsychosis
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Re: Spiritual Achievements [Re: tribesman]
    #18724022 - 08/18/13 06:18 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Achievement is definitely not the word I would use but when I was the hospital an old man in the bed beside me died.
I had never watched someone die before it was fucked up terrifying and kind of inspiring at the same time.

I think everyone has spiritual achievements (love, changes to mood and thought patterns, that feeling when you help someone, etc.)in their lives. We don't talk about it but we all have times when we feel good about ourselves because we have evolved into someone that we like. We feel... cool with ourselves.

If you want a spiritual achievement, I used to be kind of an asshole, now I'm working on it.


Edited by Psilopsychosis (08/18/13 09:14 PM)


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Spiritual Achievements [Re: Psilopsychosis]
    #18724107 - 08/18/13 06:36 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

since spirituality comes from within, sometimes you have a meditation and think, wow what kundalini, what samadhi, my chakras are doing cartwheels, and then you go to the common area and everyone seems on your wavelength and you're like, but they aren't special, wtf is up with that?  I mean, spirituality isn't much use for getting blue ribbons and head.

But take that same energy to your lover and let there be juice.


--------------------
...or something







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Invisibletribesman
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Re: Spiritual Achievements [Re: Psilopsychosis]
    #18724337 - 08/18/13 07:20 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Can an experience be claimed as an achievement?

Something to be placed on the mantelpiece with a sports trophy,
Something to be held up and lauded over others. It's all a learning curve,
and experience is the teacher, the lesson, and the test.

Just bear in mind that nothing we learn can be applied past our own lifetime,
But for the examples we provide others


--------------------
" No permanence is ours; we are a wave
That flows to fit whatever form it finds:
Through night or day, cathedral or the cave
We pass forever, craving form that binds."

~ Hermann Hesse, The Glass Bead Game


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InvisiblePsilopsychosis
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Re: Spiritual Achievements [Re: tribesman]
    #18725000 - 08/18/13 09:57 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Thats why I said achievement wasn't the right word.


I disagree with your point, true knowledge or wisdom will survive death and reincarnation. Have you not ever learned something for the first time only to find that you grasp it easily, like you have learned before? It could be something as simple as sharing. That is because it is an innate idea. That is why death should never be feared, because you will get a chance to learn all that knowledge you learned in your past lives again and the chance to learn something new. That is also why you should never worry if you are going to reach enlightenment, everyone gets there in their own time and it is not our place to judge.


Black magick 101 dude. Use this information for good and be cool.

If you have doubts then think of it like this:

The universe already knows almost everything. The reason the universe(multiverse is better word, God is even better) forms ego's or crystallizations of consciousness, (planes, galaxies, solar systems, planets, sentient life, whatever) is for consciousness to fold in on itself and develop new connections. Think of a brain, would it be able to process as much information if it was just a homogeneous blob of oneness and simplicity. Hell no. Complexity comes from all the little differences. So our purpose as ego's(powered by love, but remember that so is everything else) is to make connections we (higher self) has never made before until we make the ultimate connection and experience enlightenment. Don't ask me what that would be like, I have no idea.

I hope I didn't offend anyone with the oneness comment. We are all one, but the light does form shapes out of the darkness. Love is light, information is darkness.

^I didn't learn any of this. It was common knowledge a long time ago.

So don't worry, be happy. Every little thing is gonna be alright.

And please don't be evil.


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Offlineresonant111
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Re: Spiritual Achievements [Re: Psilopsychosis]
    #18727978 - 08/19/13 02:44 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

life flows, things change. either you move with the current or swim against it.

the only spiritual achievement necessary is to swim with the current, where-ever it takes you....everything else is bullshit.


--------------------


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Offlinecrkhd
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Re: Spiritual Achievements [Re: resonant111]
    #18728195 - 08/19/13 03:25 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

There are definitely biological achievements. Which come alongside spiritual cultivation/depth.


E.g,




These would all have physically measurable results. I remember watching a video of Ken Wilber or someone going through various meditative states while hooking himself up to an EEG, reproducing them in real time and IIRC naming them as he entered one after the other volitionally. The readout corresponded appropriately.


So when you think about spiritual achievement, I'd consider that to be spiritual achievement. The ability to physically still the mind, that is an act of the spirit.


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific


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Invisibletribesman
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Re: Spiritual Achievements [Re: Psilopsychosis]
    #18728612 - 08/19/13 05:00 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I can't even be certain of reincarnation. :shrug:

...and death should not be feared, though it is for the most part.
It is feared (negative anticipation) because we do not have any
certainty of what it holds, only possibilities. It should not be feared,
because it is inevitable, and so it should be prepared for.

Evil would be going against my empathy.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Spiritual Achievements [Re: lolwut]
    #18730049 - 08/19/13 09:59 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

lolwut said:

For these reasons I am very skeptical of anyone claiming spiritual knowledge or wisdom or anything that sounds like they feel like they've achieved something.




That is ironic because its exactly what you're doing in this thread.



Quote:

lolwut said:
At it's core, spirituality is a personal journey inwards geared towards further understanding of oneself and through attrition understanding other people..




Is it?


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Offlinelolwut
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Re: Spiritual Achievements [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18730397 - 08/19/13 11:24 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

That is ironic because its exactly what you're doing in this thread.





Please tell me more about my internal state of affairs, Dr. Mindreader :wonka:


--------------------
Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth, and taste...

:haha:


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Spiritual Achievements [Re: lolwut]
    #18730441 - 08/19/13 11:35 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I always think of spirituality as like being in spirit form (lack of ego). This usually means to live in the moment and to find the REAL you. Pure existence floating in time. Idk if this is real but it's about as close to spirituality as I've experienced. You can't escape your ego but you can work on making it a great one. Egos aren't bad. There are some bad egos but through the understanding of your ego by losing it. You can understand to live your ego life like a spirit. Going through life in the moment or as close to the moment as possible.  Spirituality is such a broad term. I can interpret it 99 different ways than what you actually mean.


--------------------
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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Spiritual Achievements [Re: lolwut]
    #18730600 - 08/20/13 12:48 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

lolwut said:
Quote:

That is ironic because its exactly what you're doing in this thread.





Please tell me more about my internal state of affairs, Dr. Mindreader :wonka:




Already posted a quote to support that statement, you say on the one hand:

For these reasons I am very skeptical of anyone claiming spiritual knowledge or wisdom or anything that sounds like they feel like they've achieved something.

and on the other hand:

At it's core, spirituality is a personal journey inwards geared towards further understanding of oneself and through attrition understanding other people..


So I ask, Is it?
You know what spirituality is? I am very skeptical of anyone who claims spiritual knowledge or knowledge about spirituality. Not that I believe that to be objectively impossible but taking someone's word at face value, bad idea.

No offense intended, just pointing out a logical fallacy.



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Offlinelolwut
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Re: Spiritual Achievements [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18730779 - 08/20/13 02:44 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

To me that's what spirituality subjectively means. It's a very loose word and that was my attempt to display the context I was using it in in the OP, and in the term "Spiritual Achievements" my definition of spirituality defines the framework I used the word in. I could have said "psychological/religious/pseudo-religious/meditative/philosophical/all of the above achievements" but chose to use a term which was rather catch all and appropriate to these forums.

Although I don't think my own understanding of the word really has the power to nullify or prove my point because I was trying to be open ended. (hence why I thought you were a troll)


--------------------
Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth, and taste...

:haha:


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Spiritual Achievements [Re: lolwut]
    #18730837 - 08/20/13 03:37 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I believe you already know what a spiritual achievement would be. As posters have said. You attempt to lose fear of dying. Which COULD just be the death of our ego. Or we just completely cease to exist. Does it matter? No. What matters is today. Your new day to experience on the planet. It could be your last but if you go into the unknown head first today you can have a day that some can't even do in their lifetime. Is that not the lessons/achievements to be learned? To have fun my friend.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Spiritual Achievements [Re: lolwut]
    #18731720 - 08/20/13 11:03 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

lolwut said:
To me that's what spirituality subjectively means. It's a very loose word and that was my attempt to display the context I was using it in in the OP, and in the term "Spiritual Achievements" my definition of spirituality defines the framework I used the word in. I could have said "psychological/religious/pseudo-religious/meditative/philosophical/all of the above achievements" but chose to use a term which was rather catch all and appropriate to these forums.

Although I don't think my own understanding of the word really has the power to nullify or prove my point because I was trying to be open ended. (hence why I thought you were a troll)




Well when you put it like that, it is a pretty tricky subject. It seems even more open ended to me than the given definition but its not an easy thing to define, limitations have to be there for the word to have any meaning...

Not to be a hypocrite, my own definition would be something along the lines of: a personal study on life or the mind, based in experience.
That's already shaky ground though

:pokerawe:


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