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Offlinespiritualseeker21
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Comparisons
    #18721592 - 08/18/13 02:49 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Hello people, since we are in a shroom forum but have the opportunity to talk about other types of dope and have a common terminology to express the same levels of experience , maybe is interesting to make some comparisons and possibilities of experience between each medicine that we take.

In your personal experience(and I am not asking for dosage or something like that), what is the best dope to go when someone is seeking a level 5 experience(without using MAO): DMT smoked or crewed, Salvia smoked or crewed or last but not least the typical psilocybin cubensis, aka, Mushroom?

If so, why? and for how long it takes or it tooked in your experience?

Greetings

Seeker


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Comparisons [Re: spiritualseeker21]
    #18721598 - 08/18/13 02:56 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Please don't ever, ever, ever call DMT, salvia, or mushrooms "dope" ever again.  Even jokingly. 

But, the obvious answer would be DMT and salvia (smoked), as long as you break through you are at the definition of "Level 5"

My last salvia trip about 2-3 months ago still isn't sitting right for me.  I'm not sure whether I need to go back or never touch that shit again (and I'm pretty damn experienced with psychedelics).


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Comparisons [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #18721607 - 08/18/13 03:02 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Please don't ever, ever, ever call DMT, salvia, or mushrooms "dope" ever again.  Even jokingly. 




:whathesaid:

but jokingly, its a pretty damn funny joke.

"yo bro i just ate some trippy ass dope"


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Offlinespiritualseeker21
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Re: Comparisons [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #18722457 - 08/18/13 11:17 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Wow, I really didnt say joking. I dont know what terminology to use. Some forums dont like the term dr@g, so...

anyway, thanks for the commentaries. By level 5 I mean obviously samadhi/satori-like experience of lost sense of physical world and sometimes even of the internal world.


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OfflineAgentchewy
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Re: Comparisons [Re: spiritualseeker21]
    #18722476 - 08/18/13 11:24 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Its all about letting go, or really high dosages when it comes to the mushroom, some people can breakthrough on 5 grams, others have to be forced into the experience with 10 or 14 grams. I've brokenthrough on 4 aco DMT before so ill say it really has to do with "letting go" let yourself melt, submit to it.


--------------------


If I knew the way, I would take you home.


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Invisiblemr sniffles
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Re: Comparisons [Re: Agentchewy]
    #18722481 - 08/18/13 11:25 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

smoked DMT all in one go


--------------------
:likeaboss:


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InvisibletheRAPeutic
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Re: Comparisons [Re: spiritualseeker21]
    #18722487 - 08/18/13 11:27 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Why do you want to reach level 5 so bad?? Have you done any of these substances before?


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Offlinespiritualseeker21
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Re: Comparisons [Re: theRAPeutic]
    #18722564 - 08/18/13 11:55 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

lol, I don't want 'so bad'. Who says that? but I am trying to get level 5 for experiential reasons...

somebody from this forum knows if their any comparative scale between brainwaves(alpha, gamma, theta, delta etc) and which substance produces more or less? would be something interesting to have in addition to the level scales(1,2,3,4,5).


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InvisibletheRAPeutic
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Re: Comparisons [Re: spiritualseeker21]
    #18722633 - 08/18/13 12:17 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Salvia will take you there in 2 big hits. 20x and over. But there is a reverse tolerance, might take a couple times.


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: Comparisons [Re: spiritualseeker21]
    #18723030 - 08/18/13 02:17 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

spiritualseeker21 said:
Wow, I really didnt say joking. I dont know what terminology to use. Some forums dont like the term dr@g, so...




My impression from your OP that you are either 12 years old or a cop has only been reinforced by this.  I vote :cop:

N.B.


--------------------
All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies.  Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit.  Note well:  Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend.  If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.

                                                                               


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Offlinespiritualseeker21
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Re: Comparisons [Re: Nature Boy]
    #18723436 - 08/18/13 03:45 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Nah, I am just new in Shroomery. Would be a comic caricature to think like that(or I am a young newbie or a cop.


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OfflineLysergic_Milkman
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Re: Comparisons [Re: spiritualseeker21]
    #18726218 - 08/19/13 06:54 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Then bravo for the cop who is interested in psychedelics!
At any rate, salvia will get you there like no other drug can. DMT is a close second, and if you're looking for the most reliably rewarding experience then go with that. But for sheer power and "level fivedness" salvia is the way to go.


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Offlineressa69
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Re: Comparisons [Re: Lysergic_Milkman]
    #18726611 - 08/19/13 09:04 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Lysergic_Milkman said:
Then bravo for the cop who is interested in psychedelics!
At any rate, salvia will get you there like no other drug can. DMT is a close second, and if you're looking for the most reliably rewarding experience then go with that. But for sheer power and "level fivedness" salvia is the way to go.




Salvia feels more dissociative than classic hallucinogen. It can also be dysphoric. Its pharmacology is completely different than DMT. These two are often compared, but inappropriately. Yes, it displaces your ego, but by a totally different means than anything else discussed on this forum. It is a k-opioid agonist, so technically an opiate, but a very strange one. DMT is a 5-ht2a agonist, like everything else on this forum, besides thc.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Comparisons [Re: ressa69]
    #18726698 - 08/19/13 09:32 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I don't think anybody ever said otherwise, ressa69.  But if you're looking for a level 5 experience, smoking either Salvia or DMT are the best way to get there fast.  Really the only similarities are the short duration.


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Re: Comparisons [Re: Nature Boy]
    #18727002 - 08/19/13 11:02 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Nature Boy said:
Quote:

spiritualseeker21 said:
Wow, I really didnt say joking. I dont know what terminology to use. Some forums dont like the term dr@g, so...




My impression from your OP that you are either 12 years old or a cop has only been reinforced by this.  I vote :cop:

N.B.





by the use of the word "dope", I definitely see why you vote cop.

I think hes just a :underage:


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Comparisons [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #18727008 - 08/19/13 11:03 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Jesus_Animal_The said:
Quote:

Nature Boy said:
Quote:

spiritualseeker21 said:
Wow, I really didnt say joking. I dont know what terminology to use. Some forums dont like the term dr@g, so...




My impression from your OP that you are either 12 years old or a cop has only been reinforced by this.  I vote :cop:

N.B.





by the use of the word "dope", I definitely see why you vote cop.

I think hes just a :underage:



its quite funny thats it hard to tell the difference between a cop and a little boy :smile:


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OfflineLysergic_Milkman
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Re: Comparisons [Re: ressa69]
    #18727321 - 08/19/13 12:17 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ressa69 said:
Salvia feels more dissociative than classic hallucinogen.




Absolutely. It is not remotely like the classical hallucinogens. It is a dissociative, but it also generates profoundly intense hallucinations in its own right.

Quote:

ressa69 said:
It can also be dysphoric.




Very much so. That's why DMT is the more 'reliable' of the two. Salvia can freak out even the hardest veterans at times and leave little room for spiritual growth.

Quote:

ressa69 said:
Its pharmacology is completely different than DMT. These two are often compared, but inappropriately. Yes, it displaces your ego, but by a totally different means than anything else discussed on this forum. It is a k-opioid agonist, so technically an opiate, but a very strange one....



Of course. We don't want anyone thinking the experiences are similar and that is not at all what I meant. However it is not a classical opiate either. kappa-opioid receptors act very differently from the mu-opoid receptors and we still understand very little about the kappa receptors (considering salvinorin-a was one of the first drugs discovered that binds at that site).
Obviously the effects are very bizzare. It doesn't merely displace your ego, it obliterates it along with your entire reality. One of the hall-marks of an upper level salvia trip is forgetting that you smoked salvia (a terrifying thought), a side-effects of ego-death.


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Offlineressa69
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Re: Comparisons [Re: Lysergic_Milkman]
    #18729547 - 08/19/13 08:18 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Lysergic_Milkman said:
Quote:

ressa69 said:
Salvia feels more dissociative than classic hallucinogen.




Absolutely. It is not remotely like the classical hallucinogens. It is a dissociative, but it also generates profoundly intense hallucinations in its own right.

Quote:

ressa69 said:
It can also be dysphoric.




Very much so. That's why DMT is the more 'reliable' of the two. Salvia can freak out even the hardest veterans at times and leave little room for spiritual growth.

Quote:

ressa69 said:
Its pharmacology is completely different than DMT. These two are often compared, but inappropriately. Yes, it displaces your ego, but by a totally different means than anything else discussed on this forum. It is a k-opioid agonist, so technically an opiate, but a very strange one....



Of course. We don't want anyone thinking the experiences are similar and that is not at all what I meant. However it is not a classical opiate either. kappa-opioid receptors act very differently from the mu-opoid receptors and we still understand very little about the kappa receptors (considering salvinorin-a was one of the first drugs discovered that binds at that site).
Obviously the effects are very bizzare. It doesn't merely displace your ego, it obliterates it along with your entire reality. One of the hall-marks of an upper level salvia trip is forgetting that you smoked salvia (a terrifying thought), a side-effects of ego-death.




By using the same vague scale (i.e. 1-5) are you not classifying things as inherently similar, and doing so on a post where the OP is very new to this stuff?

Cough medicine can give you ego death and a crazy experience, so can ketamine, and maybe if we huff paint enough we could reach a solid level 5. Heck we've all been drunk enough to the point where we can't remember a thing; who we are or why we got so hammered and end up in your neighbors baby pool singing the theme from pirates of the carribean shouting WHY IS THE RUM GONE!

In conclusion,

boners


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OfflineLysergic_Milkman
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Re: Comparisons [Re: ressa69]
    #18731922 - 08/20/13 11:55 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

No. I am speaking to Seeker on his own terms in the phraseology he understands best.
A numbered scale is perfectly fine to use for many different things, including different drugs. On that point it is not vague at all, but specifically defined by Dr. Alexander Shulgin (the + [plus] system). Do you imply that the DMT experience is similar to a movie review because both use a rating system? Of course not, and no one else is implying that either. I digress.

I recommend DMT first if you can find it. There is no "best" option, although there are many "good" options and plenty of bad ones. Salvia is a good option if you can't get your hands on DMT. And--to stress the point for absolute clarity's sake--the two are in no way substitutes for each other. They both are merely capable of producing a plus 5 psychedelic experience. mind you, the salvia scale goes to 6, which for experiential purposes is irrelevant, and the DMT scale is really either a level 2 or a level 5--you get some trippy DMT visuals or you break through into DMT land. No in between.


Edited by Lysergic_Milkman (08/20/13 12:04 PM)


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Offlineslacknsurf420
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Re: Comparisons [Re: Lysergic_Milkman]
    #18732016 - 08/20/13 12:22 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

My go-to level 5 was on smoked 2C-X and cannabis.

Went straight into level 5 in minutes, completely different universe with complete motor function. Absolutely fucking astonishing experience, and long enough to figure out everything.

I know salvia and DMT are similar in the aspect that you destined to lie down and fly into the supernovae from there

But the 2C-X which is related to cactus and amphetamines, is very physical and very very long in comparison. I believe it be a more fleshed out experience. It is certainly more dangerous.

I have had very good experiences with mushrooms and I have had those level 5 moments but the drug swoons and sways, you will be in places like shulgins +++ and then you will be in places where you kind of wish that time you wanted to wish away to come back again lol


Edited by slacknsurf420 (08/20/13 12:26 PM)


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Offlineressa69
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Re: Comparisons [Re: slacknsurf420]
    #18733354 - 08/20/13 05:47 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

slacknsurf420 said:
My go-to level 5 was on smoked 2C-X and cannabis.

Went straight into level 5 in minutes, completely different universe with complete motor function. Absolutely fucking astonishing experience, and long enough to figure out everything.

I know salvia and DMT are similar in the aspect that you destined to lie down and fly into the supernovae from there

But the 2C-X which is related to cactus and amphetamines, is very physical and very very long in comparison. I believe it be a more fleshed out experience. It is certainly more dangerous.

I have had very good experiences with mushrooms and I have had those level 5 moments but the drug swoons and sways, you will be in places like shulgins +++ and then you will be in places where you kind of wish that time you wanted to wish away to come back again lol




This is the kind of discussion worth having.

Yes, Shulgin does have a scale, and Shulgin is a very very intelligent man. If you actually sat down with him to talk about his experience and the chemistry involved with these things, he would rave about how UNIQUE they are and would not dare include salvorin A in TIHKAL.

I get your point. In most places, Salvia is easy to get and does its job well.

But what does level 5 really mean? For most, I think it's all about what is at stake. Sobbing for the sake of beauty and the unbelievable feelings embracing your inner person reborn through a lysergic haze is what defines an experience, not whether you speak to machine elves and come out of it confused, unable to recall what happened.

That's my two cents.


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OfflineLysergic_Milkman
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Re: Comparisons [Re: ressa69]
    #18733502 - 08/20/13 06:22 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I don't think that's fair to the DMT experience lol. It's a classical psychedelc and and entheogen, but I see your point, and I agree.
Salvia, on the other hand, is hardly a psychedelic and not at all an entheogen. It does not force one to observe their inner-most thoughts and being, but it's not impossible for that to happen--it's just unreliable in that regard. You are just as likely to turn into a hysterical  ferris-wheel as you are to discover the meaning of the universe as you are to be plunged into a vortex of hell for a subjective eternity. It's something different every time :laugh:


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Offlineressa69
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Re: Comparisons [Re: Lysergic_Milkman]
    #18733560 - 08/20/13 06:32 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not among the LSD worshipers around here, I was giving an off the cuff example. The closest thing salvia was for me was getting put under for surgery, but waking up very quickly and not ever going totally out of it.


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Offlinebalercia79
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Re: Comparisons [Re: spiritualseeker21]
    #18733567 - 08/20/13 06:33 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

DMT. I'm very experienced with all the common psychedelics but have only recently been turned on to DMT. And I don't give that answer because it's still new and novel to me but because nothing comes even remotely close to a DMT breakthrough. The only way I can imagine tripping harder is a near death experience. Or actually dying. And there are some who claim that your body releases DMT when you die (when you're born, when you dream, and when you die).


--------------------
-Why? Why not?


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Offlinespiritualseeker21
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Re: Comparisons [Re: balercia79]
    #18739960 - 08/21/13 09:39 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

'Or actually dying. And there are some who claim that your body releases DMT when you die (when you're born, when you dream, and when you die).'

very interesting thing! according to some sources, in slow-wave sleep, deep meditation, death and very powerful but silent breakthrough the brain release extreme delta waves. And in that view, would be interesting thing to make a map of natural waves of the brain, states of mind/consciousness and the drug that release more that wave, therefore, that state.


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Offlineressa69
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Re: Comparisons [Re: spiritualseeker21]
    #18740025 - 08/21/13 09:57 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

spiritualseeker21 said:
'Or actually dying. And there are some who claim that your body releases DMT when you die (when you're born, when you dream, and when you die).'

very interesting thing! according to some sources, in slow-wave sleep, deep meditation, death and very powerful but silent breakthrough the brain release extreme delta waves. And in that view, would be interesting thing to make a map of natural waves of the brain, states of mind/consciousness and the drug that release more that wave, therefore, that state.




If my dreams were like the DMT experience, I would never fall asleep.


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Offlinespiritualseeker21
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Re: Comparisons [Re: ressa69]
    #18740564 - 08/22/13 12:50 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I dont have too much experience with DMT but it seems to me that DMT is more like a explosion of wild blissful perceptions, feelings and rapid insights then a extreme stillness.

You are[the person experiencing] so still that is unaware of external world(the definition of level 5 'voidness' experience, void of any ego, conception and perception of the external world ).

Like I say, some say that through drugs that stimulate certain brain chemistry/state, certain states of mind/consciousness can be found(but in that case will be the cessation most brain stimuli)


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Offlineslacknsurf420
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Re: Comparisons [Re: ressa69]
    #18983184 - 10/15/13 08:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ressa69 said:
Quote:

slacknsurf420 said:
My go-to level 5 was on smoked 2C-X and cannabis.

Went straight into level 5 in minutes, completely different universe with complete motor function. Absolutely fucking astonishing experience, and long enough to figure out everything.

I know salvia and DMT are similar in the aspect that you destined to lie down and fly into the supernovae from there

But the 2C-X which is related to cactus and amphetamines, is very physical and very very long in comparison. I believe it be a more fleshed out experience. It is certainly more dangerous.

I have had very good experiences with mushrooms and I have had those level 5 moments but the drug swoons and sways, you will be in places like shulgins +++ and then you will be in places where you kind of wish that time you wanted to wish away to come back again lol




This is the kind of discussion worth having.

Yes, Shulgin does have a scale, and Shulgin is a very very intelligent man. If you actually sat down with him to talk about his experience and the chemistry involved with these things, he would rave about how UNIQUE they are and would not dare include salvorin A in TIHKAL.

I get your point. In most places, Salvia is easy to get and does its job well.

But what does level 5 really mean? For most, I think it's all about what is at stake. Sobbing for the sake of beauty and the unbelievable feelings embracing your inner person reborn through a lysergic haze is what defines an experience, not whether you speak to machine elves and come out of it confused, unable to recall what happened.

That's my two cents.




This is two months later, but this kind of topic always holds my attention

Level 5, if it is the end of the scale, is just that, the best of the best.

Anyone with a level 5 though, can pick one of those experiences, and call it the best, the secret 6th.

Since you can't have more than one best experience, it won't be on the scale, but at least we can justify why it's beyond our 1-5 scale. Tripping for years you will always get 1-5 experiences, even if we get frustrated because we don't see the fives, there's always hope.

Beyond the five is so far unlike our normal lives, you would know obliquely where and when you are and continue with the trip - or be carried on.

I like Shulgin's example, because at +++ he specifically states the point as which you can not really escape, be it in a good way or a false method. sometimes I get sucked into an experience that dissolves me and it's +++ but it's uninhabitable, othertimes it's +++ and I still aim for the ++++

There are good trips and bad trips

Really though, I don't think DMT or Salvia are long enough in duration to fully break the barrier that establishes a "best trip in my life"

LSD, 2C-X, Mushrooms, and Peyote would be the most likely contenders

Salvia and DMT are short and serene moments, and in a flash you can learn all you need to know, but do they satisfy the gradual come and go, the rise and descent, of traditional, medicinal, psychedelics? I think not.

Life is long enough that I just don't think the short and sweet method is good enough to make a complete breakthrough, where you can fully accept and let go of a spiritual encounter. A whole day should do, life survives by day and night.


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InvisibleMystiqueMushroom

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Re: Comparisons [Re: slacknsurf420]
    #18983844 - 10/15/13 10:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

OP the answer is DMT, it's the answer to everything.

How do we dream?

What do you want for breakfast?
DMT!


--------------------
https://youtu.be/np5Oi1dyO1k


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