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ayshuca

Registered: 12/07/07
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breathing out of bag help with bad trips?
#18717293 - 08/17/13 12:58 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hey wasup, i'm about to trip off of 4-aco-dmt soon. I know that breathing out of a bag is effective for relieving anxiety in people suffering from panic attacks.. Has anyone tried this with psychedelics. I think it would be very effective in helping with bad trips.
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Deathcore
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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: ayshuca] 2
#18717372 - 08/17/13 01:31 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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until the bag breathes out of you because you forget what a bag is.
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Lee
Psychedelic



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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: ayshuca]
#18717384 - 08/17/13 01:35 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Never really breathed into a bag but breathing can be important when trying to stay calm during a bad trip.
Quote:
Breathing is subtle, yet quite extraordinary. It takes mindfulness to find it. And although breathing is normally involuntary, an act of will can slow it down or speed it up; make it long and diaphragmatic, or short and thoracic. Breathing is a present-time, mindful process. It is always happening, right now. You cannot be fondling memories or planning your future when you’re contemplating your breath. Observe your breath, and you are automatically in the present. You are in the here-and-now.
One breathing strategy is to pay attention to the sensations as air passes through your nostrils. Inhale through your nose. Notice the point just inside your nose where you have the most powerful sensation of air flow. Exhale and feel the sensation again. Focus your attention on this spot. Use this single point to keep your attention fixed. Don’t try any specific breathing techniques. Just watch your breath. Although you control the pace of your inhalation-exhalation cycle, let your breathing proceed at its natural pace. Sometimes it slows, speeds up, is deep, short, or choppy. Just observe. And watch how thoughts inadvertently affect your breathing. Each time though, come back to the object of your focus–your breath.
At the beginning of your inhalation, follow your breath just for that inhalation. Then, at the start of your exhalation, follow your breath just for that exhalation. Focus on a single breath cycle. Forget about the last breath, and don’t think about the next one.
There are a variety of psychological and physiological factors that affect your heart rate. The pace of your heart is unique to your body. It is self-regulating. You don’t have to do a thing and it keeps beating. It maintains its own rhythm to keep you alive. But your hormonal responses and your central nervous system (CNS) and autonomic nervous system (ANS) can affect the speed and rhythm of your heart. Your hormones send chemicals into your blood to affect your heart's pace. And your heart beats faster or slower depending on how your nerves stimulate your heart.
While reading this passage, imagine your spouse or a good friend tapping you on your shoulder. External input from your nerves and hormones automatically increase your heart rate. Or, think back to when you were driving your car and somebody cut you off. Your heart raced uncontrollably although you were just sitting quietly (or not so quietly). Mindfulness allows you to predict and override a conditioned physiological response–that is, it allows you to regulate your heart rate when you are threatened and handle any situation appropriately.
The medulla of your brain is your control center for your heart rate. It either speeds or slows your beats per minute. Your ANS has two components: Your sympathetic nervous system (SNS) and parasympathetic nervous system (PNS). Your SNS speeds your heart rate by releasing hormones and chemicals called norepinephrine, epinephrine, and catecholamines. When your heart rate increases to a frenzy this is termed tachycardia. There are no cardiovascular benefits when your sympathetic nervous system increases your heart rate. It is simply your hormones sending stimulating chemicals to your heart, and nerves directly affecting your heart to respond to an emergency.
Your PNS is in your brain stem. This is the area that slows your heart rate. A chemical that your PNS releases to slow your heart rate is called acetylcholine. When your heart rate slows, you experience bradycardia. Yogis can slow their heart rates to the less than 20 beats per minute (BPM). And the famous magician, Harry Houdini was able to survive in a coffin-sized airtight box for hours. [.]
I use a similar method when I have bad trips. Just sit down relax and focus on your breathing. This should slow your heart rate and calm you down enough to where you can rationalize what is going on and try to snap out of a bad trip.
-------------------- Story teller makes no choice, Soon you will not hear his voice.His job is to shed light and not to master.
Edited by Lee (08/17/13 01:36 AM)
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SomeGuyX
The Ganja Mahn



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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: Lee]
#18717413 - 08/17/13 01:48 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sit down. Close your eyes. Focus on your breathing, and try to calm your mind. If you make it to this point, you are probably 10x better off and might as well enjoy the rest of the trip.
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Oeric McKenna
LIFE CAPS


Registered: 06/15/12
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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: SomeGuyX]
#18717436 - 08/17/13 01:56 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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You have to let go let go let go let go
Let the material die. Let the illusions of your world fade away. Let the river take you
If you can't let go, don't open that door.
Ask yourself "Can I really let go" This substance you're talking about, 4aco dmt....will get your psychedelic diapers off in a hurry
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TheShroomingAtheis
He's gone....


Registered: 12/31/11
Posts: 2,734
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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: Oeric McKenna]
#18717440 - 08/17/13 01:58 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Oeric McKenna said: You have to let go let go let go let go
Let the material die. Let the illusions of your world fade away. Let the river take you
If you can't let go, don't open that door.
Ask yourself "Can I really let go" This substance you're talking about, 4aco dmt....will get your psychedelic diapers off in a hurry
I dream of living always prepared for a psychedelic experience like this.
-------------------- You gotta face the music!
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SomeGuyX
The Ganja Mahn



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Hopefully I can reach that point too. I am currently battling a fear with the mushroom. :/ Hopefully we can come to an agreement next trip lol
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Deathcore
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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: SomeGuyX]
#18717547 - 08/17/13 02:42 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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the fear is because god is watching
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SomeGuyX
The Ganja Mahn



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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: Deathcore]
#18717590 - 08/17/13 03:11 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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What do you mean...?
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mushroomfred
Cosmic Tripper



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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: SomeGuyX]
#18717648 - 08/17/13 03:42 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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If you're thinking/preparing for a bad trip before your trip... you giving yourself a bad trip before it even started.
Have a few beers, loosen up... when the time is right and you feel ready then go for it.
Don't try to force a good trip... let it happen on it's own.
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tlien


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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: mushroomfred]
#18717705 - 08/17/13 04:07 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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"psychedelic diapers", great term 
I'm still wearing mine and I enjoy the fit and comfort they give me. I dunno if DMT is anything I'd want to try.
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Agentchewy
Pantheism.


Registered: 12/12/12
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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: SomeGuyX] 1
#18717793 - 08/17/13 04:52 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
SomeGuyX said: What do you mean...?
The fear of letting go is indistinguishable to the fear of death,
Psychedelic ego death is a rebirth of the psyche.
Doing DMT really shows you how far the rabbit hole goes, you've never felt love or fear until you're hitting that third toke, and you finally realize something we all don't want to believe
You are "god"
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If I knew the way, I would take you home.
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mushroomfred
Cosmic Tripper



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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: Agentchewy]
#18717812 - 08/17/13 05:07 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Agentchewy said:
Quote:
SomeGuyX said: What do you mean...?
The fear of letting go is indistinguishable to the fear of death,
Psychedelic ego death is a rebirth of the psyche.
Doing DMT really shows you how far the rabbit hole goes, you've never felt love or fear until you're hitting that third toke, and you finally realize something we all don't want to believe
You are "god"
fuck yeah
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xoanon
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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: mushroomfred]
#18717855 - 08/17/13 05:54 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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It is NOT an effective way of controlling panic attacks. It IS a good method to use if you wish to pass out, however. They use it in movies to focus the persons attention in one direction, but it is not a valid method in real life.
You would want to introduce fresh air and calm to the person, not stale air and the constant rustling of a paper bag. Don't believe everything you see on tv brother.
Source : EMR first responder course.
We all have bad trips. Meditate, or slow deep breathing can alleviate the fear and anxiety. Just work through it, I know how tough it can get. Best of luck, and we are always here for you
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Deathcore
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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: Agentchewy]
#18720065 - 08/17/13 06:53 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Agentchewy said:
Quote:
SomeGuyX said: What do you mean...?
The fear of letting go is indistinguishable to the fear of death,
Psychedelic ego death is a rebirth of the psyche.
Doing DMT really shows you how far the rabbit hole goes, you've never felt love or fear until you're hitting that third toke, and you finally realize something we all don't want to believe
You are "god"
Makes no sense. I didnt create the earth, or the sky, or the moon, or the stars, or gravity.
I am a host inhabiting a body with the privilege of experiencing external reality.
Your life is one long equation where your DNA constantly changes based on your actions and feelings. You are judged at death based on whats in your heart. Dont think you can get away with anything/everything because all it takes is ONE person to know, even if YOU think its locked away deep in the back of yout mind, once the DMT releases from your brain your life flashes before itself and thats where you will spend eternity. Energy never erases, only transforms.. Energy is spirit.
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SomeGuyX
The Ganja Mahn



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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: Deathcore]
#18720177 - 08/17/13 07:22 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deathcore said:
Quote:
Agentchewy said:
Quote:
SomeGuyX said: What do you mean...?
The fear of letting go is indistinguishable to the fear of death,
Psychedelic ego death is a rebirth of the psyche.
Doing DMT really shows you how far the rabbit hole goes, you've never felt love or fear until you're hitting that third toke, and you finally realize something we all don't want to believe
You are "god"
Makes no sense. I didnt create the earth, or the sky, or the moon, or the stars, or gravity.
I am a host inhabiting a body with the privilege of experiencing external reality.
Your life is one long equation where your DNA constantly changes based on your actions and feelings. You are judged at death based on whats in your heart. Dont think you can get away with anything/everything because all it takes is ONE person to know, even if YOU think its locked away deep in the back of yout mind, once the DMT releases from your brain your life flashes before itself and thats where you will spend eternity. Energy never erases, only transforms.. Energy is spirit.
^ Well said.
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Deathcore
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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: SomeGuyX]
#18720889 - 08/17/13 10:28 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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thank you. That came directly from my heart, that is what I learned from my one and only acid trip..
I tried to fight it. Everything. But when I tried to deny myself and convince myself certain things, it came back..full force...and then some! So It taught me to take a step back, accept my past for what it is. Fix what I have control over and stay positive and on track to making everyday the better..Until the end.
There IS a designer..With a plan. He is good and he is evil. There is a reason many suffer, but at the same time alot of it is subjective. This girl I know complains..Well to be honest... many people I knowand see outside on a daily basis seem to be sedated and zombie-like, they complain about dumb crap, wasting their precious existence waiting for God knows what..But wont take the initiative to run out there and use their short amount of time here to do something to better themselves so not only they feel better, but the people around them would do better and the earth would be green once again..
Maybe the trick (or lie) is partially true, that there is no God that WE know, but WE judge ourselves in OUR personal end. Maybe JESUS was a MAN with GODLIKE qualities and because he was perfect as far as having a pure heart goes, he sacrificed himself for people who dont deserve it because he knew all beings have spirits and he loves them all, maybe we have it in us but we have been manipulated through the hatred around us and some choose to swim towards it to get deeper (like "famous" people, celebs, musicians, actors, etc) and people idolize them, or people that stay on the shore or swim back to it, to be a loving caring individual who helps other people stay afloat. Maybe We get saved for our attempts at being as close to GOOD as possible.
We are here. This reality has ALWAYS BEEN HERE, and rules are rules are rules. Man-made rules like "trespassing" and going to school are all artificial, unlike cosmic rules like "law of physics" and what life needs to survive (ex: food, water, shelter, love) which have always been...proves that their was a designer..
I dont think I fear shrooms or acid anymore, I think they are tools... But like all tools, do you use them for good intentions..or bad intentions..
A hammer can be used to help build a house, or knock a person out... But a hammer is a hammer..
Evil was created with intentions.. Choose wisely.
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Agentchewy
Pantheism.


Registered: 12/12/12
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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: Deathcore]
#18721027 - 08/17/13 10:52 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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If you've never experienced becoming all that exists in a breakthrough than how can you deny my claim,
You are made of the stuff around you, you are the universe experiencing itself,
What more or less is that than "god"
Jesus Christ said he was Jesus Christ and everyone put him down for it,as you are following in those footsteps,
You manifest your own reality,
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If I knew the way, I would take you home.
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Deathcore
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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: Agentchewy]
#18721039 - 08/17/13 10:55 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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how old are you?
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Agentchewy
Pantheism.


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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: Deathcore] 1
#18721069 - 08/17/13 11:04 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Old enough to have put time into studying more than one religion and philosophy without preconception or bias
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If I knew the way, I would take you home.
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Deathcore
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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: Agentchewy]
#18721258 - 08/17/13 11:51 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Are you older than your parents? NO. So where were you before being born? Does that mean this reality was non-existent before YOU spawned? Your no God
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ayshuca

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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: Deathcore]
#18721508 - 08/18/13 01:28 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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i thought carbon monoxide was suppose to calm you down.... wow that was dumb... nice to know though... i'm glad i'm not gonna poison myself when i trip.
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SomeGuyX
The Ganja Mahn



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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: ayshuca]
#18721538 - 08/18/13 01:51 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't believe I am god. I am too insignificant to be, I am a sinner. I try to be "good" in my day to day life, but I still have less than appropriate thoughts, I still make mistakes, and I still can't accept some things I've done in life.
If you think you are god, fantastic. Everything that has happened in your life, has lead up to what you believe now. But for me, right now, while I am sitting here typing this message on shroomery, I can confess - I am who I am, and I will continue to be so.
But this world is an interesting place. This little place we have the experience of partaking in, it's a gift. Whether it be the experience of fear, anxiety, happiness, etc... At least we can experience it. At least we are here... I would rather feel a wide spectrum of emotions over a long period of time, than... nothing at all. I believe I have just overcome another obstacle in my life while typing this (life sucks), but I still want to be here to experience it. What an interesting night.
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Edited by SomeGuyX (08/18/13 01:53 AM)
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Stromrider
This must be the place



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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: Agentchewy] 1
#18721701 - 08/18/13 04:29 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Agentchewy said:
Quote:
SomeGuyX said: What do you mean...?
The fear of letting go is indistinguishable to the fear of death,
Psychedelic ego death is a rebirth of the psyche.
Doing DMT really shows you how far the rabbit hole goes, you've never felt love or fear until you're hitting that third toke, and you finally realize something we all don't want to believe
You are "god"
Your mind creates it's own reality. YOU manifest that reality. If that is not god like then I don't know what is..
Well said AgentChewy
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Deathcore
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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: Stromrider]
#18722041 - 08/18/13 09:04 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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@someguyx Right on! Things might "suck" at a certain point in life but you can make it out of most situations with effort. The privliege of life is worth the struggles.
@psilly Do you understand, despite your mind perceiving it, its not being god-like. Being god-like would imply that you took a role in DESIGNING AND CREATING the universe, NOT simply inhabiting it.
So cats and dogs are gods to? ALL living creatures are gods? wrong.. GOD wasnt created.. IT just WAS... BUT WE were created.. WERE NOT GODS... GOD is PERFECT, WE ARE INFERIOR.
GET OVER IT
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Agentchewy
Pantheism.


Registered: 12/12/12
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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: Deathcore]
#18722399 - 08/18/13 10:59 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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“Jesus Christ knew he was God. So wake up and find out eventually who you really are. In our culture, of course, they’ll say you’re crazy and you’re blasphemous, and they’ll either put you in jail or in a nut house (which is pretty much the same thing). However if you wake up in India and tell your friends and relations, ‘My goodness, I’ve just discovered that I’m God,’ they’ll laugh and say, ‘Oh, congratulations, at last you found out.”
"How is it possible that a being with such sensitive jewels as the eyes, such enchanted musical instruments as the ears, and such fabulous arabesque of nerves as the brain can experience itself anything less than a god.”
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If I knew the way, I would take you home.
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mushroomfred
Cosmic Tripper



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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: Agentchewy]
#18722730 - 08/18/13 12:42 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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ugh... talking about god on a forum about mushrooms.
Mushrooms are far superior to this concept of a "god"
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Deathcore
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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: Agentchewy]
#18722740 - 08/18/13 12:43 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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God made you have those eyes, nerves, and ears.
God made the ground you walk upon.
God made it possible for you to type that.
You are not God. Period.
A gerble has eyes, ears, and nerves too, is God a gerble?
How bout a fly? Flies have many eyes. Flies eat shit.
What about elements? Jump in a volcano since your God.. Survive that.
so Captain Planet is God too, right?
If there were no external species living would earth cease to exist?
Are plants God?
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Deathcore
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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: mushroomfred]
#18722742 - 08/18/13 12:44 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushroomfred said: ugh... talking about god on a forum about mushrooms.
Mushrooms are far superior to this concept of a "god"
God made mushrooms and spores.
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SomeGuyX
The Ganja Mahn



Registered: 11/04/12
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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: Deathcore]
#18722748 - 08/18/13 12:47 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlMRiVGfONU
^ Terence McKenna, "The Mushroom Speaks"
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mushroomfred
Cosmic Tripper



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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: SomeGuyX]
#18722785 - 08/18/13 12:58 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Your claims don't provide enough evidence to challenge the scientific theory of how things were created.
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SomeGuyX
The Ganja Mahn



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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: mushroomfred]
#18722796 - 08/18/13 01:02 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sorry I didn't post it to be completely relevant to either side of the argument, just thought you guys might find it interesting :P
But for my 2 cents, nobody is god in this forum. Okay? Cmon
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Lee
Psychedelic


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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: Deathcore]
#18722994 - 08/18/13 02:04 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Deathcore What I think Agentchewy is saying is a point from pantheism.
Which is a belief that there is only one thing in existence and that is God, or nature, or the universe, or the dao (Many people give it many names.) This doesn't mean that there is an personal or anthropomorphic God. God isn't some entity in heaven watching over you and HE created everything. Pantheism speaks that there is ONLY God and nothing else. God IS the entire universe, God IS Nature. God is one thing made from a system of many things, Just as you are one person made up of countless systems of cells and bacteria that make up your body. Each cell is an individual thing but each and every cell goes into making a bigger picture that is you.
In this same pattern of thought you ARE God because you are a piece that completes the whole. You are APART of God. As is everyone and everything that exists.
After a high does of mushrooms this is undeniable to me. When "You" dissolves and you hit ego death and as you lay in the darkness and experience pure consciousness without an ego you get the overwhelming since of being one with everything. This isn't an experience that is exclusive to mushrooms, if you take enough of pretty much any psychedelic or psychoactive compound you'll have this experience. Its most known to happen on DMT, HIGH doses of LSD or Psilocybin, and Mescaline.
-------------------- Story teller makes no choice, Soon you will not hear his voice.His job is to shed light and not to master.
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Lee
Psychedelic


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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: Lee]
#18723038 - 08/18/13 02:18 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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We are the Universe becoming aware of itself. We are apart of the universe. We are just experiencing the universe as a Human for a little while, until the material that make us up moves on to make up something else. God is the Universe. We are the Universe. We are God.
-------------------- Story teller makes no choice, Soon you will not hear his voice.His job is to shed light and not to master.
Edited by Lee (08/18/13 02:19 PM)
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Stromrider
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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: Lee] 1
#18723039 - 08/18/13 02:19 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thank you for that Lee. That was very well put
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Agentchewy
Pantheism.


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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: Lee] 1
#18724836 - 08/18/13 09:19 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lee said: Deathcore What I think Agentchewy is saying is a point from pantheism.
Which is a belief that there is only one thing in existence and that is God, or nature, or the universe, or the dao (Many people give it many names.) This doesn't mean that there is an personal or anthropomorphic God. God isn't some entity in heaven watching over you and HE created everything. Pantheism speaks that there is ONLY God and nothing else. God IS the entire universe, God IS Nature. God is one thing made from a system of many things, Just as you are one person made up of countless systems of cells and bacteria that make up your body. Each cell is an individual thing but each and every cell goes into making a bigger picture that is you.
In this same pattern of thought you ARE God because you are a piece that completes the whole. You are APART of God. As is everyone and everything that exists.
After a high does of mushrooms this is undeniable to me. When "You" dissolves and you hit ego death and as you lay in the darkness and experience pure consciousness without an ego you get the overwhelming since of being one with everything. This isn't an experience that is exclusive to mushrooms, if you take enough of pretty much any psychedelic or psychoactive compound you'll have this experience. Its most known to happen on DMT, HIGH doses of LSD or Psilocybin, and Mescaline.
Spot on sir,
I hate to show piety and down anyone's beliefs as I am extremely open to experience
But after my two breakthroughs, one on 4 aco DMT, and the other on DMT I always get the sensation of becoming everything and understanding existence in itself.
As einstein said,
"The most beautiful and most profound religious emotion that we can experience is the sensation of the mystical. And this mysticality is the power of all true science. If there is any such concept as a God, it is a subtle spirit, not an image of a man that so many have fixed in their minds. In essence, my religion consists of a humble admiration for this illimitable superior spirit that reveals itself in the slight details that we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds."

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If I knew the way, I would take you home.
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mushroomfred
Cosmic Tripper



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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: Agentchewy]
#18726053 - 08/19/13 05:35 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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How would you define the devil?
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Edited by mushroomfred (08/19/13 06:04 AM)
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Stromrider
This must be the place



Registered: 06/02/13
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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: mushroomfred] 1
#18726126 - 08/19/13 06:22 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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A fabrication of the church to keep its people in line
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Agentchewy
Pantheism.


Registered: 12/12/12
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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: Stromrider]
#18726245 - 08/19/13 07:09 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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The devil is a fabrication of imagination, Jesus never once spoke of the devil,
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If I knew the way, I would take you home.
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mushroomfred
Cosmic Tripper



Registered: 12/22/11
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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: Agentchewy]
#18726276 - 08/19/13 07:23 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I guess I'm only playing "devil's advocate" here...
If there is god, then what is the opposite of god.
Light and Darkness
Also aware some Satanists believe in themselves as their own god similar as described in this thread.
So if we/everything/the universe is god... would the devil be the opposite? Some sort of dark/anti-matter? Whatever is on the other side from "everything"?
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Ill-bird

Registered: 12/14/11
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Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: breathing out of bag help with bad trips? [Re: mushroomfred]
#18726402 - 08/19/13 08:11 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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what about the dead sea scrolls? they were written long before the church of England existed.
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