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OfflineHeyImShroomy
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Does anyone have experience with Iboga or Ibogaine? Need help!
    #18716249 - 08/16/13 08:15 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

My fellow shroomerites: I come to you in need of help.

Backstory: My younger sister suffers from a vascular disease known as Takayasu's (More Info on it here) Essentially, her aorta becomes inflamed and her body attacks it. Most do not know, but you have a nerve that runs from your heart to your spine. For my younger sister, she is in constant EXTREME pain from this.

For the last 3 years, they have had her on fentanyl patches, which are incredibly strong opiates. They also have her on morphine pills to help manage the flair ups.

Well, as you can imagine, my sisters body has become addicted to the opiates, and she can no longer stand it. Even with changing her patches every 48 hours, she can not escape the pain of withdraw symptoms. She has tried everything she can at this point, but with suffering from this illness for so many years, she is starting to give up hope.

As an older brother, it destroys me to hear how my sister is ready to give up her fight. She would rather end her life than continue to deal with these withdraw symptoms. Now keep this in mind. My sister has only smoked weed 3 times in her life, and has done nothing else other than that. She is by no means a drug user. She is a poor, unfortunate soul who became addicted to pharmaceuticals from having to take them in order to live a pain free life. Which brings me to my point.

She has investigated Iboga, and is interesting in trying it to defeat her addiction. Now does anyone here have ANY experience with Iboga, or with an Ibogaine clinic.

This has really turned into a last resort. I am unwilling to watch my sister suffer anymore, and I will do WHATEVER it takes to help free her from this disease. So PLEASE. If anyone has any information on Iboga or Ibogaine, please share it with me. Experiences with it, knowledge on where to find it, or where a good clinic is.

Please, it would mean so, SO much to me if anyone could get me any advice on how to help her. She is under 5 foot tall, under 90 pounds, so her body is completely saturated in the shit. I just want to end her pain...

Thank you for whoever takes the time to read this and helps a fellow shroomerite, human being, and kindred soul.


--------------------
BrehBrehBreh  :werewolf: :frenchie:


Edited by HeyImShroomy (08/16/13 08:21 PM)


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OfflineDustJuice
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Re: Does anyone have experience with Iboga or Ibogaine? Need help! [Re: HeyImShroomy]
    #18716291 - 08/16/13 08:22 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

There's a few ibogaine documentaries floating around the web that have good information and share lots of users experiences. From what I understand the experience is extreme and lengthy but has shown good results treating and beating addiction.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Does anyone have experience with Iboga or Ibogaine? Need help! [Re: HeyImShroomy]
    #18716302 - 08/16/13 08:26 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I have no personal experience. But I have heard AMAZING things about ibogaine clinics and getting people off opiates. I have a friend who got clean off a bad heroin addiction that way, he says it was amazing. I would definitely look into it. It is pretty "intensive" therapy, but from what I have seen the results speak for themselves.


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OfflineHeyImShroomy
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Re: Does anyone have experience with Iboga or Ibogaine? Need help! [Re: Shroomism]
    #18716333 - 08/16/13 08:34 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I've done a shit ton of research on it. Only 7% of opiate addicts relapse after their first experience. So far I'm thinking I will have to take her to a clinic in mexico, but I'd like to find a way to bring it here.

I am an experienced user of many types of psychedelics, and would more than likely try a dose before she did, just to know the experience. I also want to warm her up to mushrooms, to help her get an understand of what she will have to experience. Iboga trips usually last anywhere from 12 hours to upwards of 24.

But at this point, it's about the only option we have. She is very open to the idea. She isn't even cutting back on her pain medications right now, and she still goes through withdraws. Her tiny frame is overloaded with opiates, and has hit its peak. It can no longer help her, and is only hurting her.

I really appreciate the responses guys... anything will do at this point to help relieve some of my tension and emotional pain over this situation.


--------------------
BrehBrehBreh  :werewolf: :frenchie:


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Invisiblemapleleafmarijuana
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Re: Does anyone have experience with Iboga or Ibogaine? Need help! [Re: HeyImShroomy]
    #18716349 - 08/16/13 08:39 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Why is ibogaine treatment you're 'last resort'?
It sounds like she may need a proper medical detox if she has actual pain issues,  I'd look at a normal medical detox or find a place up in canada where shell recieve quality medical treatment should she need it.


--------------------
Vinegar Tom
stay black cocksucker, thats the most important thing - joey coco diaz
Flesh is Weak. All Hail the Machine God!


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OfflineHeyImShroomy
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Re: Does anyone have experience with Iboga or Ibogaine? Need help! [Re: mapleleafmarijuana]
    #18716380 - 08/16/13 08:50 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Her actual physical pain have for the most part subsided. She has done an incredible job at recovering from her illness, and it is almost in remission.

At this point, her pain is more caused from opioid dependency than from the physical ailment itself. With the outrageous amount of fentanyl that she has been given over the years, there is no way for her to detox without going through tremendous amounts of physical pain.

We know that iboga won't help with all the withdraw symptoms. But if we can reduce the detox from 2 weeks for 1 full day, it's worth it.


--------------------
BrehBrehBreh  :werewolf: :frenchie:


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Invisiblemapleleafmarijuana
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Re: Does anyone have experience with Iboga or Ibogaine? Need help! [Re: HeyImShroomy]
    #18716413 - 08/16/13 09:03 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

HeyImShroomy said:
Her actual physical pain have for the most part subsided. She has done an incredible job at recovering from her illness, and it is almost in remission.

At this point, her pain is more caused from opioid dependency than from the physical ailment itself. With the outrageous amount of fentanyl that she has been given over the years, there is no way for her to detox without going through tremendous amounts of physical pain.

We know that iboga won't help with all the withdraw symptoms. But if we can reduce the detox from 2 weeks for 1 full day, it's worth it.



i think you aren't really aware of her mental addiction, has she been frank?
you know there are many options to a proper detox, not just tapering down slowly or rolling around in bed trainspotting style?
shit there's some methods where they basically keep her comatose until she's clean. it really depends on what level of discomfort and time constraint does she have? is a 1 day detox with no real outside mental help from a psycvhologist/psychiatrist what you 2 are looking for?


she won't know her actual pain level until she's completely clean and has been for a while. will she be in remission for the rest of her life? or are things like a stressful life that wears her down and causes her to look around for a source of pain relief going to potentially re-trigger something?
will she be completely free of opiates and only use non opioid pain relief medications/methods?


--------------------
Vinegar Tom
stay black cocksucker, thats the most important thing - joey coco diaz
Flesh is Weak. All Hail the Machine God!


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OfflineYage
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Re: Does anyone have experience with Iboga or Ibogaine? Need help! [Re: HeyImShroomy]
    #18716415 - 08/16/13 09:05 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

That's tricky. Have you ever looked into methadone clinics?
It's just like dealing with the doctors about the fentanyl,
except she gets to manage her dosage for the most part.


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
loner with a boner

Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: Does anyone have experience with Iboga or Ibogaine? Need help! [Re: Yage]
    #18716524 - 08/16/13 09:36 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Yage said:
That's tricky. Have you ever looked into methadone clinics?
It's just like dealing with the doctors about the fentanyl,
except she gets to manage her dosage for the most part.



I've heard from numerous heroin addicts that methadone has a worse and longer withdrawal than other opiates including heroin.

I don't know much of anything about ibogaine, but I thought it was mainly for curing psychological addiction? From the sounds of it she's just dealing with the physiological withdrawals.


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Invisibledaiy

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Re: Does anyone have experience with Iboga or Ibogaine? Need help! [Re: HeyImShroomy]
    #18716606 - 08/16/13 09:59 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I don't know much about iboga but I seem to remember there being a huge list of general contraindications for it. Your sister may not be able to safely take it with her heart condition. Something to look into first.


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OfflineHeyImShroomy
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Re: Does anyone have experience with Iboga or Ibogaine? Need help! [Re: Yage]
    #18716610 - 08/16/13 10:01 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

She is 80lbs, and on 100mcg patches of fentanyl every 48 hours. To detox from that, it takes 2 full weeks. You can't comatose someone for that long, just for a detox.

And it truly isn't a mental addiction. She has admitted that she knows her body and brain crave it, but not her personally. She never wanted to be on pain killers in the first place, but when the pain became so severe she had no choice. They never started her off with lose dose meds like norco either. It was straight to morphine sulfate at 200gs. Her tiny body really has been saturated to the brim.

As for her actual pain level, when the disease first kicked in, she was on 50mgs of prednisone to reduce the inflammation in aorta, as well as weekly shots of methotrexate. Now she only takes 2mg of prednisone, and a shot of methotrexate every 10 weeks. So with the inflammation finally under control, her body is no longer attacker her aorta and surrounds arteries, and the pain should be gone at this point.

I wish I could give more details on this, but it's an incredibly long story. We have been on this road going on 4 years now. I'm only 21, she's only 20. With us being our only siblings, we've always been close, and this has brought us even closer. I have lost many people in my life, and am quite excepting of death, but I am not ready to let my sister end her life because of this pain anymore. This is why we are turning to Iboga. The doc's can't do anything except ween her off, but it's hard to do that to people on fentanyl and morphine.

As for methodone, we had a family member pass away from being prescribed it. So we aren't willing to go down that route.

Thank you all again for you words of insight into the situation.


--------------------
BrehBrehBreh  :werewolf: :frenchie:


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Invisiblepassifloracaerulea
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Re: Does anyone have experience with Iboga or Ibogaine? Need help! [Re: HeyImShroomy]
    #18716780 - 08/16/13 10:47 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I can't give dosage advice but I would think it's hard to decrease the dosage of the patch unless she asks the doctor to do so. if it was me, i'd ask for dilaudid and Demerol to taper off with. that way she has control of how much she needs to keep from getting sick, as long as she doesn't mind not being high or in pain.


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
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Registered: 01/11/13
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Re: Does anyone have experience with Iboga or Ibogaine? Need help! [Re: HeyImShroomy]
    #18717034 - 08/16/13 11:35 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

HeyImShroomy said:
She is 80lbs, and on 100mcg patches of fentanyl every 48 hours. To detox from that, it takes 2 full weeks. You can't comatose someone for that long, just for a detox.

And it truly isn't a mental addiction. She has admitted that she knows her body and brain crave it, but not her personally. She never wanted to be on pain killers in the first place, but when the pain became so severe she had no choice. They never started her off with lose dose meds like norco either. It was straight to morphine sulfate at 200gs. Her tiny body really has been saturated to the brim.

As for her actual pain level, when the disease first kicked in, she was on 50mgs of prednisone to reduce the inflammation in aorta, as well as weekly shots of methotrexate. Now she only takes 2mg of prednisone, and a shot of methotrexate every 10 weeks. So with the inflammation finally under control, her body is no longer attacker her aorta and surrounds arteries, and the pain should be gone at this point.

I wish I could give more details on this, but it's an incredibly long story. We have been on this road going on 4 years now. I'm only 21, she's only 20. With us being our only siblings, we've always been close, and this has brought us even closer. I have lost many people in my life, and am quite excepting of death, but I am not ready to let my sister end her life because of this pain anymore. This is why we are turning to Iboga. The doc's can't do anything except ween her off, but it's hard to do that to people on fentanyl and morphine.

As for methodone, we had a family member pass away from being prescribed it. So we aren't willing to go down that route.

Thank you all again for you words of insight into the situation.



Has she brought the withdrawals up with the doctor? Everyone metabolises drugs quicker, and being a patch it would make sense for it to be an issue with it simply not lasting as long as it should rather than her tolerance simply being so high that her normal dose doesn't keep her well. Maybe the doctor could switch her to a weaker patch every 36 hours that would be the equivalent mcg per day as what she is on now and slowly taper down from there if that takes care of her withdrawals?


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Invisiblekr0nik0
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Re: Does anyone have experience with Iboga or Ibogaine? Need help! [Re: passifloracaerulea]
    #18717091 - 08/16/13 11:45 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

When I was getting off opiates, I had a few people in my online "support group" that had undergone the Ibogaine treatment in Mexico. The 3 people that went through with it had extremely positive results. I've read about several cases that ended up in people dying from the session, but that's several people out of thousands that have done it. A small risk, but also has to be taken into account. The idea of introducing her to mushrooms first is really good idea IMO.

I wouldn't wish opiate w/d's on my worst enemy. It was truly the worst time of life as far as how my body and brain felt. The mental aspect of the addiction can be a lot harder than the physical aspects of it. Thus, Ibogaine seems to be a godsend since it gets rid of the mental cravings for the drug.

Now keep in mind that my opiate abuse was strictly recreational, and not at all for pain. I know from the people that I've talked to that when you are dealing with REAL pain as well as well as the withdrawals, it makes it exponentially harder to quit. I wish I could give you further information on the treatment itself, but all I can say is that you should really consider it for your sister.

The best of luck to her and the rest of your family. It's truly an agonizing thing to go through what she's going through. I hope everything works out for the best. :peace: & :heart:


--------------------

“[...]the only people for me are the mad ones,
the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk,
mad to be saved,
desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”



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OfflineDustJuice
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Re: Does anyone have experience with Iboga or Ibogaine? Need help! [Re: HeyImShroomy]
    #18724900 - 08/18/13 09:32 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I have someone close on suboxone and he has significant drug/psychedelic experience and he won't consider iboga even though he wants to get off the suboxone. I have no first hand experience with iboga but from what I gather from online resources its nothing like psylocybin. Not trying to scare you but I think the experience contains a high degree of mental anguish.  Be careful and work with professionals with evidence of history working in this area.


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OfflineLoveYourLife
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Re: Does anyone have experience with Iboga or Ibogaine? Need help! [Re: DustJuice]
    #18724953 - 08/18/13 09:44 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I think Suboxone would be a more suitable first line of treatment than jumping straight into Ibogaine treatment.

Ibogaine is really for people who are SEVERE addicts.

She could detox using Suboxone/Subutex with minimal withdrawal symptoms.


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OfflineLed Zeppelin
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Re: Does anyone have experience with Iboga or Ibogaine? Need help! [Re: LoveYourLife]
    #18725133 - 08/18/13 10:19 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

dude if she isnt abusing them then why not just send her to detox? she doesn't need fucking ibogaine shes not some junkie sucking dick for dope.:lol:

if shes not trying to get high im sure she will be fine if she just goes to detox


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Does anyone have experience with Iboga or Ibogaine? Need help! [Re: Led Zeppelin]
    #18725145 - 08/18/13 10:21 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I remember reading that iboga carries some health risks, something cardiovascular related if I'm remembering right. Ayahuasca therapy has also been used in addiction treatment.


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OfflineLoveYourLife
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Re: Does anyone have experience with Iboga or Ibogaine? Need help! [Re: Led Zeppelin]
    #18725152 - 08/18/13 10:22 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
dude if she isnt abusing them then why not just send her to detox? she doesn't need fucking ibogaine shes not some junkie sucking dick for dope.:lol:

if shes not trying to get high im sure she will be fine if she just goes to detox




^ This.  But quite honestly since she isn't a junkie, she could probably do it in an outpatient setting with Suboxone. Get a script for a week or two, take it, be finished.
Simple as that really.
No need to put her though a hellish trip that is potentially lethal.


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Offlinest1llnox
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Re: Does anyone have experience with Iboga or Ibogaine? Need help! [Re: LoveYourLife]
    #18725164 - 08/18/13 10:24 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LoveYourLife said:
I think Suboxone would be a more suitable first line of treatment than jumping straight into Ibogaine treatment.

Ibogaine is really for people who are SEVERE addicts.

She could detox using Suboxone/Subutex with minimal withdrawal symptoms.





Don't let a doctor rush her though. This can be EXTRAORDINARILY discouraging to opiod-dependent brothers and sisters. I've seen people crying and shaking in rehab after they stepped down a dose on their taper because they were given yet another taste--a warning, if you will--of what withdrawal has in store for them.

Quote:

LoveYourLife said:
^ This.  But quite honestly since she isn't a junkie, she could probably do it in an outpatient setting with Suboxone. Get a script for a week or two, take it, be finished.
Simple as that really.
No need to put her though a hellish trip that is potentially lethal.




What I was warning you about ties directly into what the quality shroomerite with good intentions above me is saying. Fentanyl IS NOT A FUCKIN GAME and she needs to be on suboxone for at least 6 months.

Find a doctor that will take it slow and go with her pace, not one who's going to rush her like a junkie off of the high.


--------------------
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