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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,373
Re: The risks of getting vaccinated?? [Re: DeadHearts] * 2
    #18714314 - 08/16/13 12:07 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

If you want actual data from clinical studies, then pull the medication labels.  Adverse events from cinical trials appear there.  Real-world adverse events are likely to be slightly higher.

Injection site pain is the most common adverse reaction from kids receiving the "Proquad" measles mumps rubella vaccine. This occurred in about 22% of kids getting the vaccine.

Fever, irritability and measles like rash also occur.  Occurring in 21.5, 6.7 and 3 percent of children.

Sever adverse reactions like encephalitis and encephalopathy occur in about 1 in 3 million.  No deaths occurred in a study in Finland examining 1.5 million kids.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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InvisibleNWlight
Just look


Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 18,686
Re: The risks of getting vaccinated?? [Re: s240779]
    #18714360 - 08/16/13 12:15 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Da2ra said:
Quote:

NWlight said:
Not vaccinating your children is honestly disgusting to me as it shows little regard for their well-being.




Actually, most people who are against vaccination think that vaccines are based on misguided science or an all out conspiracy and that they could be harming their kids. I'm not making any assertions, I'm just telling you what they think.





Yep I did phrase that badly.


But where do you draw the line between negligence and ignorance?

It still disgusts me but I agree they are doing it because of a misguided opinion based on really bad advice from people who have caused a lot of harm to a lot of people by spreading this misinformation


--------------------
:wizard::deemsters:


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InvisibleNWlight
Just look


Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 18,686
Re: The risks of getting vaccinated?? [Re: NWlight]
    #18714408 - 08/16/13 12:23 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

To stay relevant to the OP I don't think that vaccines should be mandatory.

but they should be mandatory for things like travelling abroad, entering public schools, etc.


anything involving taxpayers, possibly endangering others unnecessarily, or other special privileges.

if you want to sit in your home unvaccinated go right ahead


--------------------
:wizard::deemsters:


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InvisibleDeadHearts

Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
Re: The risks of getting vaccinated?? [Re: NWlight]
    #18714419 - 08/16/13 12:26 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

NWlight said:
Quote:

DeadHearts said:
Quote:

NWlight said:
People who don't get vaccinated are mooching off the immunity of the rest of society.

There are some very UNLIKELY risks associated with vaccines, and some throughout history more than others.


Not vaccinating your children is honestly disgusting to me as it shows little regard for their well-being.  the safety and effectiveness of vaccines is beyond proven it is medical fact, period, the end.





Proof?




The opposition is the one making the ridiculous claim.  I have no burden of proof to show that 2+2=4


Take a look at the incidence rates of every major illness that we have invented a vaccine for, look at the date the vaccine was invented, and look at the incidence rates of the illness before and after.





Im just asking you to cite sources for your claims. Im not one to just take someone's word for it.


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InvisibleDeadHearts

Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
Re: The risks of getting vaccinated?? [Re: something super extreme]
    #18714437 - 08/16/13 12:29 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

sVs said:
Quote:

NWlight said:
Quote:

Constantly pushing
drugs on us to the point that pharmaceuticals drugs are more abused than all of the street drugs




yes big pharma is making people abuse medication :rolleyes:


this belongs in board/99




Don't you know, they put drugs in the drugs to make you more addicted to the drugs.
It certainly couldn't be that humans excercise poor self-control and constantly avoid taking responsibility for their actions. Much easier to blame something else, like Evil Corporations.





You two know damn well that drugs are pushed on people who don't necessarily need them and become
dependent. Not not some random conspiracy theory.

Big pharma is BOOOOOOOMING and causin the most harm.


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Offlinewithoutawire
hi
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/16/09
Posts: 11,384
Loc: Honolulu, Hawaii
Last seen: 8 months, 10 days
Re: The risks of getting vaccinated?? [Re: NWlight]
    #18714438 - 08/16/13 12:29 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I don't get flu shots, but when it comes to getting vaccinations as a child for things like Polio, Rubella, etc. I think you are a fucking INSANE to get get your child those vaccinations. Vaccinations causing autism...lol please. The guy who printed the information supporting that ended up retracting it. It's total shit.

Look at the existence of small pox and how it used to effect us until we came out with a vaccine for it. Now small pox vaccinations aren't required or given almost at all, and it doesn't pose a risk to us. If a doctor is telling me my child needs a vaccination because he/she could get XYZ disease and they are trying to eliminate the disease like small pox then I'm going to give it to my child because 1- the risk of having side effects is EXTREMELY small 2- the risk of having my child infected by a disease is higher than a vaccination side effect means they are getting protection.


--------------------
:tigerbunny:


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InvisibleNWlight
Just look


Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 18,686
Re: The risks of getting vaccinated?? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #18714441 - 08/16/13 12:29 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DeadHearts said:

Im just asking you to cite sources for your claims. Im not one to just take someone's word for it.





Just for the sake of conversation here is one graph.

they will all look just like this.



--------------------
:wizard::deemsters:


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InvisibleDeadHearts

Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
Re: The risks of getting vaccinated?? [Re: NWlight]
    #18714462 - 08/16/13 12:33 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

NWlight said:
Quote:

DeadHearts said:

Im just asking you to cite sources for your claims. Im not one to just take someone's word for it.





Just for the sake of conversation here is one graph.

they will all look just like this.







So it seems that even though many are not vaccinating these days the numbers remain low. Then why
the outcry from people saying YOU MUST YOU MUST YOU MUST?


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,373
Re: The risks of getting vaccinated?? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #18714467 - 08/16/13 12:35 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DeadHearts said:
So it seems that even though many are not vaccinating these days the numbers remain low. Then why
the outcry from people saying YOU MUST YOU MUST YOU MUST?




Because the REASON the numbers are low is because of the vaccinations.

If you stop vaccinating, the numbers will increase.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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InvisibleDeadHearts

Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
Re: The risks of getting vaccinated?? [Re: badchad]
    #18714473 - 08/16/13 12:37 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
Quote:

DeadHearts said:
So it seems that even though many are not vaccinating these days the numbers remain low. Then why
the outcry from people saying YOU MUST YOU MUST YOU MUST?




Because the REASON the numbers are low is because of the vaccinations.

If you stop vaccinating, the numbers will increase.





WHy have they not increased? At least according to that graph? Many people choose to avoid vaccines
these days and they should have that right to do so.


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InvisibleNWlight
Just look


Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 18,686
Re: The risks of getting vaccinated?? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #18714496 - 08/16/13 12:41 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DeadHearts said:
Quote:

badchad said:
Quote:

DeadHearts said:
So it seems that even though many are not vaccinating these days the numbers remain low. Then why
the outcry from people saying YOU MUST YOU MUST YOU MUST?




Because the REASON the numbers are low is because of the vaccinations.

If you stop vaccinating, the numbers will increase.





WHy have they not increased? At least according to that graph? Many people choose to avoid vaccines
these days and they should have that right to do so.



They don't increase because the number of people not getting vaccines is so low.  if we stopped vaccinations the numbers would indeed go up.


if you have a room of 100 people and only one of them isn't vaccinated, he's not going to catch it from the other 99 people so he will be safe.



the more people that don't get vaccinated the higher the risk of an outbreak.


--------------------
:wizard::deemsters:


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InvisibleDeadHearts

Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
Re: The risks of getting vaccinated?? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #18714500 - 08/16/13 12:41 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Food for thought (No mentions of vaccinations though although still relevant)







Stearns and a long list of scientists presented their findings on this evolution-medicine link at the Arthur M. Sackler Colloquium in the spring of 2009. The results, announced publicly today, are now published in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

For example, previous work in evolutionary medicine has helped to explain some reasons why disease is so prevalent and difficult to prevent: Natural selection favors reproduction over health; biology evolves more slowly than culture; and pathogens evolve more quickly than humans.

They describe these and other connections between evolution and sickness along with possible explanations. Here are the highlights:
•Humans evolved alongside beneficial bacteria and parasitic worms, and so our ancestors built up immunity to such bugs. But nowadays with increased hygiene, we've eliminated the bacteria and worms. The result: Since our immune systems aren’t used to these good bugs, our bodies fight them as foreigners. That can result in allergies, asthma and autoimmune diseases, such as Graves' disease in which a person has an overactive thyroid.
•Humans have higher rates of cancer than other species. One reason: We aren't adapted to the new risk factors of modern society, including tobacco, alcohol, a high-fat diet and contraceptives, researchers have found.
•Certain adaptations that once benefited us might be helping several ailments to persist in spite of, or perhaps because of, advancements in modern culture and medicine, according to researchers.

With respect to evolution and culture, here's a case in point: Harmful mutations are often recessive, and so both parents must pass on the gene in order for the disease to show up in offspring. And while natural selection has supported outbreeding (breeding with people other than close relatives), culture hasn't always followed suit. Across the globe, about 10 percent of spouses are second cousins or closer, the researchers say, with the prevalence ranging from 1 percent to 50 percent in different cultures.

The inbreeding can cause recessive genes that should only have a small effect on mortality to have a much larger impact.

http://www.livescience.com/6021-ongoing-evolution-explain-mysterious-rise-diseases.html


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Offlinewithoutawire
hi
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/16/09
Posts: 11,384
Loc: Honolulu, Hawaii
Last seen: 8 months, 10 days
Re: The risks of getting vaccinated?? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #18714501 - 08/16/13 12:41 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Can you cite a source saying that the amount of people who don't get polio vaccines is going up yet it's still staying low?

Pretty much everyone gets their kid polio vaccination.


--------------------
:tigerbunny:


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,373
Re: The risks of getting vaccinated?? [Re: badchad]
    #18714512 - 08/16/13 12:44 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Because at this point, the number of people refusing vaccines is relatively small.  In addition, the spread of the disease is low because transmission is limited by the number of people already vaccinated (e.g. limited carriers).

This is the rationale behind "herd immunity".

If I'm vaccinated, I will not get sick.  However, disease can still spread and propagate among my non-vaccinated community members.  However, if everyone is vaccinated then:
1.  The vaccinated people cannot get sick.
2.  The disease cannot spread or propagate, because it cannot infect the vaccinated individuals.

Once this occurs, a disease can be almost completely eradicated.  This is why its important to get vaccinated.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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InvisibleDeadHearts

Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
Re: The risks of getting vaccinated?? [Re: NWlight]
    #18714514 - 08/16/13 12:44 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

NWlight said:

They don't increase because the number of people not getting vaccines is so low.  if we stopped vaccinations the numbers would indeed go up.


if you have a room of 100 people and only one of them isn't vaccinated, he's not going to catch it from the other 99 people so he will be safe.



the more people that don't get vaccinated the higher the risk of an outbreak.






Yet outbreaks continue to happen. And is your little analogy even true? Maybe for certain viruses
but definitely not all.


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OfflineHeyImShroomy
Shaman
Male User Gallery


Registered: 08/18/12
Posts: 516
Loc: The Mitten
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
Re: The risks of getting vaccinated?? [Re: NWlight]
    #18714516 - 08/16/13 12:44 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Cool graph, now where is the ingredient list to all these vaccines? Now that's what I want to see.

Gatorade is good for you and all, but does that mean that the Yellow 5 or the monopotassium phosphate that they add in there is good for you? No, they aren't actually.

Does anyone talk about the "aluminum salts" or "formaldehyde" that are added into vaccines? No, they don't, and there is nothing good about putting formaldehyde into your body, or your childs body for that matter.

When it comes down to it, it's a personal choice. You make the mental decision whether you find these things healthy for you or not, and you act on those choices. I don't think anyone is right or wrong in this matter. It's all up to you to decide the lesser of the evils.


--------------------
BrehBrehBreh  :werewolf: :frenchie:


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OfflineHalluciNate
Trippage! / Loving
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/25/12
Posts: 4,440
Loc: ALL THAT IS
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: The risks of getting vaccinated?? [Re: DeadHearts] * 1
    #18714526 - 08/16/13 12:47 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DeadHearts said:

•Humans have higher rates of cancer than other species. One reason: Mircrowave ovens.




:rofl2:


--------------------
We are here to assist, to teach you to evolve as we go through this process together. We give our own version of things only to bring you to a higher consciousness. No matter what situation you find yourself in, it is the power of your thoughts that got you there. It is also the impeccable belief that thought creates that will transform your experience and the planetary existence.




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InvisibleNWlight
Just look


Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 18,686
Re: The risks of getting vaccinated?? [Re: HeyImShroomy]
    #18714527 - 08/16/13 12:48 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

HeyImShroomy said:
When it comes down to it, it's a personal choice. You make the mental decision whether you find these things healthy for you or not, and you act on those choices. I don't think anyone is right or wrong in this matter. It's all up to you to decide the lesser of the evils.





I think the lesser of two "evils" is not getting fatal and debilitating viruses


I can see why someone would disagree :tongue:


--------------------
:wizard::deemsters:


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OfflineHeyImShroomy
Shaman
Male User Gallery


Registered: 08/18/12
Posts: 516
Loc: The Mitten
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
Re: The risks of getting vaccinated?? [Re: NWlight]
    #18714552 - 08/16/13 12:53 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

NWlight said:
Quote:

HeyImShroomy said:
When it comes down to it, it's a personal choice. You make the mental decision whether you find these things healthy for you or not, and you act on those choices. I don't think anyone is right or wrong in this matter. It's all up to you to decide the lesser of the evils.





I think the lesser of two "evils" is not getting fatal and debilitating viruses


I can see why someone would disagree :tongue:





And I believe the lesser of the two evils is not shooting yourself up with a foreign substance, let alone one that you know nothing of what's in it.

Gotta love opinions. Everyone's got one, just like a booty hole, or so the saying goes.


--------------------
BrehBrehBreh  :werewolf: :frenchie:


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InvisibleDeadHearts

Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
Re: The risks of getting vaccinated?? [Re: HalluciNate]
    #18714555 - 08/16/13 12:54 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

HalluciNate said:
Quote:

DeadHearts said:

•Humans have higher rates of cancer than other species. One reason: Mircrowave ovens.




:rofl2:





I guess someone has to laugh at ur jokes. That was not in the article.


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