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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread
    #18712801 - 08/16/13 02:01 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

I thought that perhaps it would be nice to have a thread where fans of Ramana Maharshi could come together and share experiences and advice regarding the practice of his teachings.

Of greatest importance of course, is self-inquiry and its practice. I would say that self inquiry in its truest sense consists of abidance within one's heart where there is no "I".

It is the process of the coming together and merging of all parts of your being such that you experience wholeness. It came to my attention recently that the word "Devil" means divider, which makes perfect sense because the devil is that which creates the sense of seperateness in our beings that leads to internal conflict rather than peace.

Now self inquiryy consists of scrutinizing yourself in such a way that you hope to experience your innermost, purest self free from the influence of past experiences and worries about the future. When the true self is being experienced, peace prevails.

So the question becomes how to make this our experience. I am wondering how do you folks do it?

One of my methods, which I will share with you, is what I call "Hunting the false "I". In this method, the object is to destroy the enemy king, which is the false "I". You see, Ramana Maharshi's theory is that thoughts only arise after what he calls the "root" thought, which is the "I". I liken it to a medieval battle where when you kill the enemy king, his whole army surrenders instantly. Each thought represents an enemy soldier. You can go doing battle with enemy soldiers for your entire life and this is indeed how most people live, perpetually lost in thought, perpetually doing battle try to keep bad thoughts away and coax in good thoughts. Most people court good thoughts by trying to engage themselves in pleasant sensory experiences. They dont realize that there is a way to do it at the level of awareness.

So the key is to grab hold of the enemy king, the I thought and see that it is not you. Then it along with its entire army surrenders and you are given a brief window in which it is possible to see who you are. Of course that enemy king is one mighty king and he will soon be back, deceiving you again. But if you continue to valiantly battle him in this way, he will eventually begin to lose strength.

Spiritual practices like prayer, repetition of holy names or mantras, doing service to others, going to church, etc, all work to weaken the enemies armies. As such, they are extremely valuable. However, none of them will actually destroy the enemy king. You can pray all day every day and fight off most of the king's army and be a near perfect saint, but you will not be truly a saint until you get a hold of that enemy king and slit his throat. That doesnt mean you shouldn't pray, when the king's army is weakened his defenses are much less and it becomes much easier to reach and slay him. Just don't forget the need to slay the king, just going to church and praying by themselves aren't enough. All they do is move your army into position so that you might get close enough to loose an arrow in the direction of the king, or better yet, run him through with your sword. If you try to do this without having done any sort of spiritual practice to weaken his army first, chances are his soldiers will quickly crush any and all attempts you make to infiltrate their ranks They will keep their king well protected and at a safe distance, relying on their expert archers and long range catapult crew to chip away at you. In fact, the enemy will never engage you directly on purpose, you must go on the offensive. You must put the enemy fortress under siege because the enemy prefers to fight in the shadows where it cannot be seen clearly and can conceal its tactics. For once the enemy's strategy is fully understood, it no longer stands a chance and utter defeat is only a matter of time.

Edited by Deviate (08/16/13 02:38 AM)

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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: Deviate] * 1
    #18713144 - 08/16/13 05:08 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Self inquiry I've found to be most direct, but because of that it's also very subtle, it's not really a method or technique or path as your inquiring into what is already present, your not trying to get anywhere far away but to be fully present where you already are, which ultimately, you already are, but relatively the 'more' present we feel are, the 'more' our attention abides in it's Source rather than cavorting with thoughts, the more Bliss we experience

Quote:

So the question becomes how to make this our experience. I am wondering how do you folks do it?




Like you pointed out the mind (ego or false 'I') and our identification with it is the enemy, that is where the limitation is, and you kill the ego by not fighting with it, by not reacting, by being empty, by keeping quiet, by having no enemies!

The two best paths in my experience are that you can inquire into your 'as is' nature, or surrender to your 'as is' nature, inquire into yourself or surrender to yourself, I feel they both require a strong urge for Reality, a strong urge to be at peace, an urge to be truly happy & not settle for less

Ramana said this urge must be the same as that of a man drowning wanting air, and nobody can fake that, you can't lie to God, you can't lie to yourself

The mind is everything, everything is the mind, and the way to overcome everything is to be nothing, which is none other than being the Self, which is Bliss

This is what i have found...


--------------------

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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: Chronic7] * 1
    #18713219 - 08/16/13 05:44 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

To keep out of duality I do what I love at all times

Live now,without worries

Notice what I love so I can appreciate it

If something makes me happy, I keep doing it, and appreciate it
If something makes me unhappy I know it was wrong for me and stop doing it

Follow happiness, that's the inner self

When I don't do anything I sit/walk in nature to remove thoughts, or observe my thoughts at all times, till they pass (the ones I don't want)

peace

the best example would be everyday weed smoking
I usually get unhappy when I smoke it alone i.e., or unhappy next day when I stop smoking(and desire to smoke more) (always more problems than the day before), and it changed my thoughts negatively next days too, so I listened to myself and quit it

Thoughts/desires/emotions I try to avoid living as, because it creates separation from oneself and attachments,suffering

Living now and realizing I have everything I need always, then desires are not as much of a temptation as before

Stress is my biggest problem, due to living in a noisy place, so I often take walks/cycle/run in nature , and meditate there  (can't sell as I own the apartment, financially trapped a bit, but I look at the positive of it, that I got a place to live that is my own)
Stress does the exact same thing to you likely if you are unaware of it, makes you become detached from your true self, and likely start living as thoughts/desires/emotions without even realizing it

Stress is the most important thing I try to avoid, and not living as my thoughts

Meditation helps, but I am still not where I can meditate good at home
Only in nature it seems (feel peace as soon as I walk out the door, but rarely at home for very long)

I'm very sensitive to noise, but also live a very loud place


The typical stress signs:
can't sleep regularly, not being very social, overeating, reduced amount of lucid dreams, it becomes much harder to fast, makes you careless about yourself(taking drugs,overeating,eating bad stuff etc), bad overview of thoughts, no memory, got -very- sick due to destructive lifestyle for about a decade (stress made it worse since I became even more careless about myself)

avoid stress at any cost, it's the most important thing I think
meditation has improved my memory a lot and overview of thoughts, but it hasn't removed my stress, only moving away can do that it seems , I realize that (I've always been very sensitive to noise, and it's very loud here)

everyday since I moved in, something said to me I had to move, but I didn't listen
then I gained weight,stopped being social, no sleep, no memory etc.

meditation has improved most of it, but not all (still get waked every morning with a drilling machine from the neighbors)

noticing frustration and how pointless it is helped me too, sometimes I just take a walk instead

nature removes all thoughts for the rest of the day, if I sit/walk in it, refills me with energy, would recommend to anybody
removes stress and brings lots of happiness, just like meditation

Edited by lessismore (08/16/13 06:47 AM)

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Invisiblemt cleverest
clevendafodil

Registered: 08/19/12
Posts: 2,348
Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: Deviate]
    #18720546 - 08/17/13 09:15 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

even though both paths result in abiding as awareness, I prefer surrender over self inquiry. surrender is the christ story (death and resurrection). the idea being to die before you die, and so be resurrected by Life. this is a death of everything you know yourself to be.
like jesus drew all sin unto himself on the cross, we surrender ourselves to embrace and become all things. this is the atonement, the reconciliation of all things. and when you become That, there can be no individual self. so just die already by letting go of all stories. death anxiety will kick in, but dont worry. know that awareness will catch you.

this video is a great practice:


Edited by mt cleverest (08/17/13 10:27 PM)

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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: Chronic7]
    #18721393 - 08/18/13 12:32 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
Self inquiry I've found to be most direct, but because of that it's also very subtle, it's not really a method or technique or path as your inquiring into what is already present, your not trying to get anywhere far away but to be fully present where you already are, which ultimately, you already are, but relatively the 'more' present we feel are, the 'more' our attention abides in it's Source rather than cavorting with thoughts, the more Bliss we experience

Quote:

So the question becomes how to make this our experience. I am wondering how do you folks do it?




Like you pointed out the mind (ego or false 'I') and our identification with it is the enemy, that is where the limitation is, and you kill the ego by not fighting with it, by not reacting, by being empty, by keeping quiet, by having no enemies!

The two best paths in my experience are that you can inquire into your 'as is' nature, or surrender to your 'as is' nature, inquire into yourself or surrender to yourself, I feel they both require a strong urge for Reality, a strong urge to be at peace, an urge to be truly happy & not settle for less

Ramana said this urge must be the same as that of a man drowning wanting air, and nobody can fake that, you can't lie to God, you can't lie to yourself

The mind is everything, everything is the mind, and the way to overcome everything is to be nothing, which is none other than being the Self, which is Bliss

This is what i have found...




Thanks for posting this. I read your post a couple of days ago and what you said helped me to understand some of the mistakes I was making in my practice and I already feel like my practice has improved in a significant way. I am starting to realize that I am simple being.

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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: Deviate]
    #18721583 - 08/18/13 02:42 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Awesome, keep it simple

Really nothing is complicated, as whatever is, is, and that's just how things are for now, but we can easily complicate things by thinking about them too much

We usually give value to what we think are highly complex things, so by giving value to simplicity the whole thing is turned on its head, by recognizing silence as all powerful we simply stop making noise

In silence is peace, bliss, happiness, clarity, all the things we seek



--------------------

Edited by Chronic7 (08/18/13 02:51 AM)

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OfflineDeviate
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Posts: 4,497
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: Chronic7]
    #18721715 - 08/18/13 04:44 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
Awesome, keep it simple

Really nothing is complicated, as whatever is, is, and that's just how things are for now, but we can easily complicate things by thinking about them too much

We usually give value to what we think are highly complex things, so by giving value to simplicity the whole thing is turned on its head, by recognizing silence as all powerful we simply stop making noise

In silence is peace, bliss, happiness, clarity, all the things we seek






One of my problems is that sometimes I dont want liberation enough. I will start to miss my old self as I let it die and stop delving further in contemplation of God. Then later, when I am suffering, I will again desire liberation. How can I get my whole being pointed at liberation so I dont hesitate and turn back when I am actually nearing it?

The hard part for me is that my egoic life on earth, was very miserable. I never had a well adjusted ego, I never had any happiness in my life as an ego. The part of me which clings, is the part that is sad about that and doesn't want to die (because liberation is a death of sorts) without having seen any of its dreams come to pass. Many of my egos dreams were out of accordance with my true desires and what will make me truly happy. Never the less, the frustration of living so many years stuck in ego but without achieving these dreams, leads to me feeling a certain sadness when it comes to really letting them go. Letting them go means never living the life I had envisioned for myself, but instead adopting something new and much better. Should my resistence be treated as simply another obstacle to be gotten rid of, or should self realization be postponed to a time when I am no longer interested in pursuing any self centered ego created goals?

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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: mt cleverest]
    #18721736 - 08/18/13 05:04 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mt cleverest said:
even though both paths result in abiding as awareness, I prefer surrender over self inquiry. surrender is the christ story (death and resurrection). the idea being to die before you die, and so be resurrected by Life. this is a death of everything you know yourself to be.
like jesus drew all sin unto himself on the cross, we surrender ourselves to embrace and become all things. this is the atonement, the reconciliation of all things. and when you become That, there can be no individual self. so just die already by letting go of all stories. death anxiety will kick in, but dont worry. know that awareness will catch you.

this video is a great practice:






I am a practicing catholic, so I am all about the path of surrender and love for God. I have a deep love for the Bible and Christianity and I actually want to spread awareness about the greatness of Christianity. I feel like a lot of today's spiritual seekers have turned away from Christianity because they see it as spiritually unfashionable and many of them even go so far as to ridicule mainstream Christians who may not have had the (often drug induced) mystical experiences of non dual states that a lot of shroomerites have had. of course there are many mainstream Christians who arent devout but the ones who are are deeply loved by God and will certainly be brought to knowledge of the truth in due time. I would say that a mature devout Christian who is morally upright is much closer to God-realization than a spiritually immature shoomerite who ate some mushrooms and glimpsed a non dual state and suddenly thinks he is a great saint or mystic because he saw a spiritual Truth that many Christians who have been worshipping God their whole lives havent seen yet. They ridicule the traditonal spiritual practices of going to church, praying, giving oneself to Jesus and praticing obedience to God and avoidance of sin, electing instead to do their own thing based on the misquided insight that its not necessary to go to church or be a Christian in order to know God.

Well of course its not necessary to go to Church or be a Christian. God is omnipresent, regardless of what you do. But just because it is not necessary to do this or that thing, doesn't mean you can just not do any spiritual practices. On the contrary, for all except the most ripened spiritual seekers, tremendous effort is necessary and one of the ways to put in this effort, is the way taught by Jesus Christ. I can almost assure everyone that faithfully following the instructions set out by the Lord Jesus Christ and the Bible, will do more for you spiritually than just doing it your own way. The reason is that when you attempt to do it your own way, rather than being faithful to a specific teaching or religion, is that your ego will keep you from doing some of the things you really need by convincing you "oh thats not really necessary". For example, there might be someone who would due to his circumstances,  benefit a great deal from going to church and practicing worship of God that way. If he is one of those "spiritual but not religious" types, chances are his ego will convince him he doesn't really need to go to church.

Anyway, I practice catholocism as well as self inquiry. I used to find surrender to work better but lately I feel like I have forgotten how to surrender. I know it sounds stupid but when I try to surrender I feel like I am doing something and I know I need to get beyond doing and leave the doing to God but I have just forgotten how to do that somehow. So that is part of the reason I am working on self-inquiry now rather than surrender.

I think surrender is better because it requires less modulation. WIth inquiry you must be careful to do the inquiry properly but with true surrender, you dont have to worry about anything because God takes care of it all for you.

Another catholic spiritual practice which I have only begun recently, is devotion to the Sacred heart of Jesus. I really can't even begin to explain how valuable I have found the catholic church on my spiritual path. No matter what anyone might say about the church, I have found the methods taught by the church, such as praying the rosary, receiving communion, devotion to the sacred heart of Jesus as immensely powerful spiritual practices.

In fact, one of my desires to spread awareness of how rich and powerful Catholic spirituality is. Unfortunately the church has a bad name due to some scandals but the actions of certain priests is not going to make praying the rosary ineffective. Unfortunately, many people cannot separate the two in their minds. They cannot separate the Church as an organization from what it teaches. But they are two very different things. If I found the pope was a child molester tonight, I would still be praying the rosary tomorrow because God exists independently of how well or poorly a certain church organization represents him.

Edited by Deviate (08/18/13 05:17 AM)

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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: Deviate]
    #18722036 - 08/18/13 09:03 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

You dont need to go to church you can have church at home or in nature

You dont need to follow christianity as the one true religion either

Just accept all religions and yourself and death etc (if you accept yourself you accept others)

I believe in god, jesus etc but I dont need to convert people

I think the bible has many truths
But you gotta see the truths yourself from own experience
Then you will get a new understanding of it

Not follow any religion blindly

I like hinduism, buddhism too

Spirituality is doing it -your- way not someone elses
It is in all of us

Which allows you to go to church
Or make your own spiritual practice

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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: lessismore]
    #18722069 - 08/18/13 09:18 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

But that said

If you can only be spiritual with drugs you are heading the wrong way too fast

Nature is my connection with god, sometimes prayer, and doing what I can to help others

There is no need for drugs for spirituality that is important to realize
They have helped me show me the door(because the door is in us, love)
Next day is what matters

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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: Deviate]
    #18722159 - 08/18/13 09:50 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

The Chronic said:
Awesome, keep it simple

Really nothing is complicated, as whatever is, is, and that's just how things are for now, but we can easily complicate things by thinking about them too much

We usually give value to what we think are highly complex things, so by giving value to simplicity the whole thing is turned on its head, by recognizing silence as all powerful we simply stop making noise

In silence is peace, bliss, happiness, clarity, all the things we seek





One of my problems is that sometimes I dont want liberation enough. I will start to miss my old self as I let it die and stop delving further in contemplation of God. Then later, when I am suffering, I will again desire liberation. How can I get my whole being pointed at liberation so I dont hesitate and turn back when I am actually nearing it?





It will happen of its own accord, it's as simple as happiness, when you really understand that happiness is within you won't keep going without, sometimes it's like something calls you home, it can manifest as a question, as curiosity, or an urge to be blissfull or happy, an urge to be free

Often on the path we'll get a taste of bliss, then go back to the world until we become dissatisfied with it, then start seeking & turn within and experience bliss again, and keep repeating this, something may interest us for a while, but then we lose it, or lose interest in it, and start to look for something else again, be it another object or liberation, but we keep coming back to realize we are happiness, it's our nature

Sometimes even just a split second taste of that inner bliss is enough for someones mind to turn away & go back to chasing what can not bring lasting happiness, but then sometimes you dive deeper, you don't accept a little taste, you don't take the bait, the only limit to how deep you dive into yourself or into bliss is the limit you place on it

So the way i see it is that when we really really want true lasting happiness then the search for it simply becomes stronger than any other search, you dive so deep into reality that you lose yourself in it, then there is no 'me' that can then go back to the world, you and the world have become inseparable

Quote:

The hard part for me is that my egoic life on earth, was very miserable. I never had a well adjusted ego, I never had any happiness in my life as an ego. The part of me which clings, is the part that is sad about that and doesn't want to die (because liberation is a death of sorts) without having seen any of its dreams come to pass. Many of my egos dreams were out of accordance with my true desires and what will make me truly happy. Never the less, the frustration of living so many years stuck in ego but without achieving these dreams, leads to me feeling a certain sadness when it comes to really letting them go. Letting them go means never living the life I had envisioned for myself, but instead adopting something new and much better. Should my resistence be treated as simply another obstacle to be gotten rid of, or should self realization be postponed to a time when I am no longer interested in pursuing any self centered ego created goals?




Realization should never be postponed, most people in the world don't even know there is something called self-realization, i imagine the idea that infinite universe could realize itself through a human body sounds insane to most people, so if you are in a place where you are thinking about such things then you are extremely blessed, all your problems, misery, unhappiness is actually believe it or not a blessing, they may not feel it at the time, to have unfulfilled dreams, regrets, to feel incomplete & unhappy, to have fear things will continue this way... but if you were comfortable as the ego, getting everything you wanted, all the praise and success you need to keep maintaining your ego, then you might have taken longer to started thinking of God, then you wouldn't start to search for true happiness, true completeness

When you let go of the ideas & dreams that make up the ego you will still live life & appear to have a bodymind, dreams will still play out, and for the better, so don't have fear for your body or your mind, stay surrendered to what is, inquire into your nature, nothing can go wrong, nothing in this world can compare to the joy of self-knowledge

Remember this is all more in the realm of feeling rather than thinking, you don't have to think about any of this stuff, become silent & intuitive with yourself, trust that something in yourself knows the way, forget everything you've learnt, including all this im saying, feel your own inner serenity, stay with it & don't abandon it so quickly

If you really want something, whatever it is, then you will be compelled to go for it, nothing will stop you, but if you have doubts or confusion then there is less clarity & it slows the process down

Treat nothing as an obstacle to realization, ultimately you can't get out of your own way, as you are everything

So dive within, realize yourself, and be free


--------------------

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Invisiblemt cleverest
clevendafodil

Registered: 08/19/12
Posts: 2,348
Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: Deviate]
    #18722342 - 08/18/13 10:45 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

none of that Christian religious stuff matters at all. this is a nondual thread, so lets keep religious duality to a minimum.
do you believe you are That or not? if you do, things like church and formal practices like prayer go out the window. on a literal level the bible is totally irrelevant, but as myth Christianity begins to finally make sense. It's all about the Christ story. nothing else matters. but keep in mind I wouldnt even be talking about christ or using any christian terminology if I and others werent raised by christians.

the religious side of christianity has caused a lot of unnecessary pain in the world as well as in my own life.  but in taking psychedelics (psychedelics is nondualism), you reconcile Christianity as myth and recognize the christ story as your own story, your own psychological death and resurrection. christ is awareness, which is one. anti christ is division. therefore religion is the antichrist. so lets forget all the doctrine and have the christ story be the last story that moves us beyond all stories. this is what it means to pick up your cross and follow him.

watch the video I posted and learn how to die.

Edited by mt cleverest (08/18/13 11:11 AM)

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Offlinewindowlikcer
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: Deviate]
    #18726662 - 08/19/13 09:20 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

I was reading something Maharshi said about meditation one day, and upon reading the words "turn the mind inward" I felt a tugging at the back of my eyelids, and somehow, without effort (more like the opposite of effort; a certain letting-go or releasing oneself to the way-of-things) I closed my eyes and did just that. I felt and heard an intense vibration oscillating up my spine and whipped off the spine and into the center of my head with great momentum. The physical sensation was intertwined with an instantaneous mental event I can only call a "realization". It felt like getting hit in the head with lightning, I lost awareness of the world and existed in a state where my consciousness and reality itself were one rather than two separate regions of being.

I opened my eyes eventually out of fear that I was going to die if I stayed in that state (I can't remember if the I-thought arose first or if my fear of death spawned the return of the I-thought), and with the reemergence of my false sense of "I", the world came rushing back as well. everything was bathed in bright white light that was coming from me, and my skull was intensely buzzing for a few minutes.

The experience has removed my doubt. It was just as real of an experience as any I have ever had. My head was physically buzzing afterwards, this was not my imagination or a hallucination.

It is incredible that his written words alone have that much potency, and he mainly taught through silence.

The experience has happened to me a few other times, always in deep meditation and contemplation. It has changed me deeply.

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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: windowlikcer]
    #18726860 - 08/19/13 10:14 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for sharing that :thumbup:


--------------------

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Offlineeve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: Deviate] * 1
    #18727003 - 08/19/13 11:02 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

just fucking kill me
how did Ramana Maharishi get lumped together with the Fucking Church?

Fixation on a devil is incorrect.
Devil doesn't mean 'divider.'


--------------------
...or something






Edited by eve69 (08/19/13 11:07 AM)

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Offlinecrkhd
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: windowlikcer]
    #18728058 - 08/19/13 03:01 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

windowlikcer said:
I was reading something Maharshi said about meditation one day, and upon reading the words "turn the mind inward" I felt a tugging at the back of my eyelids, and somehow, without effort (more like the opposite of effort; a certain letting-go or releasing oneself to the way-of-things) I closed my eyes and did just that. I felt and heard an intense vibration oscillating up my spine and whipped off the spine and into the center of my head with great momentum. The physical sensation was intertwined with an instantaneous mental event I can only call a "realization". It felt like getting hit in the head with lightning, I lost awareness of the world and existed in a state where my consciousness and reality itself were one rather than two separate regions of being.

I opened my eyes eventually out of fear that I was going to die if I stayed in that state (I can't remember if the I-thought arose first or if my fear of death spawned the return of the I-thought), and with the reemergence of my false sense of "I", the world came rushing back as well. everything was bathed in bright white light that was coming from me, and my skull was intensely buzzing for a few minutes.

The experience has removed my doubt. It was just as real of an experience as any I have ever had. My head was physically buzzing afterwards, this was not my imagination or a hallucination.

It is incredible that his written words alone have that much potency, and he mainly taught through silence.

The experience has happened to me a few other times, always in deep meditation and contemplation. It has changed me deeply.






Yeah I find that all it takes is hearing what is already been observed by those who have already reached peace. The words that they say are the summation of all their experience meaning that the sheer energy of that cultivation can be transferred directly to you or anyone, you can feel it happen very much as a physical tingly sensation. Kundalini can be awakened via transmission, many kinds of energy transer are possible.


Self-inquiry meditation is the highest grade 'drug' I have ever taken, especially in that I am now really peering into why I take other drugs in the first place. It stills the mind rather actively which is a very amazing sensation as normally if you try too hard in breathing meditations that is anti-meditative. But there is no trying, nor not trying, self-inquiry happens on a level beyond effort altogether. So incredible!


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: crkhd]
    #18731060 - 08/20/13 06:29 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah I find that all it takes is hearing what is already been observed by those who have already reached peace.

I would think that if that were true there would be a lot more realized folk around.  I mean if that's all it takes anyone who had heard the words of the enlightened would then be enlightened and so on and the world by now would be mostly enlightened.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinecrkhd
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: Icelander]
    #18731128 - 08/20/13 07:17 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Yeah I find that all it takes is hearing what is already been observed by those who have already reached peace.

I would think that if that were true there would be a lot more realized folk around.  I mean if that's all it takes anyone who had heard the words of the enlightened would then be enlightened and so on and the world by now would be mostly enlightened.




There is a difference between really hearing and responding, and just hearing.


If a persons says "this is how to do X" and they have done X, all you have to do is follow the method. Whether it's building a plane, making hot chocolate, or indeed, seeking enlightenment. Everything in this physical universe operates purely by the geometrical movement of atoms, making every single process a perfectly systematic process. Enlightenment does not have any real mystery to it, the only mystery is the argument that man creates to turn himself away.



For instance I noted to one person on here that most of our tax dollars go towards directly killing children around the world. The solution if one is to preserve the Self that does not kill children on a daily basis, is to reject using dollars or being involved with the entire tax system.

What was his response? "Man gotta eat". In a single sentence the death and brutal traumas of millions of children is disregarded by a hungry belly. Appreciably we are all somewhat in a dark hole but if you can see the exit and you're not walking towards it, there is no hope for you.



Why talk about enlightenment? It's just another circlejerk. Real talk, demands real actions. And you have to respond to all the words of an enlightened person as they reveal the truth that you already know inside out within yourself but are simply too scared to give thought to. If a person says "chop the apple in half then slice it a few mm thick" then what I must do is pick up the knife, chop the apple in half, and get my damn sliced apple. The proof is in the proving, the observation that many having applied these words, have reached such understanding/enlightenment.


Fundamentally: It's a recipe, not a fucking "pick your own mystery" and if you're not prepared to cook, get the fuck out of the kitchen and leave the knives to people who care to actually do so

I don't like the fact that I have more than likely paid for the deaths of more than one child at least with my tax money. But I do appreciate this is real and that I must change this to be true to myself.


You get people coming into this forum writing a treatise on spirituality and what it should be. Yet when they are presented the clear information, the clear facts of what is happening, the clear facts about their own actions on this planet, and they are unwilling to change this, what use are their words? They are even more vapid and vain than a person who simply says "I'm an asshole, I don't give a fuck about enlightenment, fuck you all".



So it's not simply about hearing it. It's about HEARING it, being responsive to it, being at the beck and call of factual information, whoever it is from. Because you are eradicating *every* delusion from the mind, you must respond to *every* fact/observation. If you disregard a single one, you have long closed the door to enlightenment. Consequently we must let go of all that we hold to be sane or insane to find the true sane reality - an insane mind is by definition one that believes itself to be sane, that belief itself is the insanity.


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific

Edited by crkhd (08/20/13 07:24 AM)

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: mt cleverest]
    #18731139 - 08/20/13 07:22 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mt cleverest said:
none of that Christian religious stuff matters at all. this is a nondual thread, so lets keep religious duality to a minimum.




ummm, ok..

Quote:

do you believe you are That or not? if you do, things like church and formal practices like prayer go out the window.




this is totally incorrect. Ramana Maharshi taught that we are all the Self, always, eternally. So what stops us from knowing this? thoughts. the wandering mind. Therefore if one inquires within oneself, "who am I?" thoughts cease and knowledge prevails. However, according to ramama maharshi, there are times when inquiry is impossible. he taught that it was only appropriate for "ripe" souls and to the rest, he taught love for God and recommended prayer and approved various meditation practices. of course all of these go out the window when you realize that you are that, but so does self inquiry, so if you dont want to discuss things which go out the window, what is there left to discuss?

The reason I brought prayer into this thread is because I thought that in a thread about ramana maharshi, it would be appropriate to discuss his teachings. As I explained, he taught that the purpose of spiritual practices like prayer and meditation was to weaken the vasanas (mental tendencies) which are the obstacles to self-realization.

In my own case, a couple years ago my mind was far too noisy to practice self-inquiry. Yes, on some level i believed i was "that" but what good does that do? It did not help me when i was suffering. In fact, it often did nothing more than frustrate me, knowing my nature was bliss yet all i seemed to experience was pain and suffering. Self inquiry seemed impossible and brought me zero help or comfort. SO what did I do? I did what the Maharhsi said to do. I developed love for God. I started reading the Bible and praying every day and meditating after finishing my prayers. Gradually, I found myself less attached the world and more aware of space within me. My mind which was once a raging bull, was becoming tame. This is exactly how ramana maharhsi described the process. He teaches that the mind is like a cow which wanders all over and must gradually be broguth under control by tempting it with lush grass, until eventually it prefers its own stall and will not wander even if the gate is left open. Anyway, after a certain point, my mind became quiet enough that I found myself able to practice self inquiry, hence my creation of this thread.

also, if you were familiar with ramana maharshi, he taught that religion was more than myth. A lot of it is actually literally true from the standpoint of the ego. Of course, when the Self is realized, it is no longer true, but until then, we must accept that there is a personal God which is in control of our lives. That is what Ramana Maharshi taught. Dont like it? too bad.

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Ramana Maharshi self-inquiry thread [Re: eve69]
    #18731153 - 08/20/13 07:26 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
just fucking kill me
how did Ramana Maharishi get lumped together with the Fucking Church?




Historically the church is the source of many of the spiritual practices we have here in the West. Ramana Maharshi taught that spiritual practices purify the mind and make one ready for Self-realization. Hence, the connection.

Fixation on a devil is incorrect.
Devil doesn't mean 'divider.'




"
Another name for Satan in the Bible is “the Devil.”  What does this mean?  The term “devil” means “the divider.” "
http://blog.foresthill.org/?p=1396

I dont know if that source is accurate or not, but I am only repeating imformation I have heard elsewhere. If you can prove me wrong, please do so for I would like to know.

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