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Invisibleunknown1123
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Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 5,813
A decent appraoch to wars in the Middle East
    #18711247 - 08/15/13 08:25 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

"Our military is voluntarily based, people sign up for it and not draft based. These wars are appropriate because it keeps the battlefront over there rather than in our schools, hospitals, cities, etc.. It is necessary to have these seemingly rather pointless wars on their ground. We give our soldiers the best training, gear, protection, and place them in the scenario they signed up for and are trained to act in."

What do you think?


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Offlinemagicbroncoride
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Re: A decent appraoch to wars in the Middle East [Re: unknown1123]
    #18711316 - 08/15/13 08:36 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah that fits pretty well. Only exception is those stupid guard tards who joined to get free college and thought the guard didnt get deployed. Every time I see them I laugh. Most people who join active realize what they are doing when they sign the dotted line. Then again I had the best job so all others were there for my amusement.  Zipper suited sun god forever.


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: A decent appraoch to wars in the Middle East [Re: unknown1123]
    #18711331 - 08/15/13 08:38 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

unknown1123 said:
"Our military is voluntarily based, people sign up for it and not draft based. These wars are appropriate because it keeps the battlefront over there rather than in our schools, hospitals, cities, etc.. It is necessary to have these seemingly rather pointless wars on their ground. We give our soldiers the best training, gear, protection, and place them in the scenario they signed up for and are trained to act in."

What do you think?




That sounds like the kind of bullshit a politician might say


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Offlinemylfgur
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Re: A decent appraoch to wars in the Middle East [Re: unknown1123]
    #18711342 - 08/15/13 08:41 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

There is no decent approach to war.

Quote:

unknown1123 said:
"These wars are appropriate because it keeps the battlefront over there rather than in our schools, hospitals, cities, etc..."





On the contrary, these wars in the middle east create blowback that does bring the war to our cities. Where do you think "terrorism" comes from? The media portrays these combatants as having no motives besides pure carnage and terror, but if you actually listen to the stories of most so-called "terrorists" they should be categorized rather as enemy combatants. Osama Bin Laden, the Chechens in Boston and Moscow, and Timothy McVeigh all had legitimate grievances with their targets and misdirected their anger to violent action.


Quote:

unknown1123 said:
"We give our soldiers the best training, gear, protection"




How much does this cost and who pays for it? Who benefits in the short term? The quote acknowledges the fact that the wars in the middle east are "rather pointless" from a western civilian's perspective, but they are certainly not pointless for the higher-ups in the military who are making full pennies on their $100,000+ pensions (or much, much more for some) and working other civilian jobs simultaneously. The wars are certainly not pointless for the oil companies who require the army to secure the "free flow" of oil bought with American dollars and open up markets that would have otherwise been nationalized and exploited by the government of the country with oil in question.


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
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Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
Re: A decent appraoch to wars in the Middle East [Re: Patlal]
    #18711344 - 08/15/13 08:41 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Wars are bad for business I would prefer it if the whole world operated on a free market with a common currency.


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Offlinemylfgur
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Re: A decent appraoch to wars in the Middle East [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #18711368 - 08/15/13 08:46 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Wars are bad for business I would prefer it if the whole world operated on a free market with a common currency.



:lolwut:
"Wars are bad for business" for whom, exactly? Wars have always been great for the businesses of arms, vehicular transportation, mercenaries, research and development in a vast array of fields, and of channeling the wealth through tax dollars of the many to a few.


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
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Re: A decent appraoch to wars in the Middle East [Re: mylfgur]
    #18711378 - 08/15/13 08:48 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mylfgur said:
Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Wars are bad for business I would prefer it if the whole world operated on a free market with a common currency.



:lolwut:
"Wars are bad for business" for whom, exactly? Wars have always been great for the businesses of arms, vehicular transportation, mercenaries, research and development in a vast array of fields, and of channeling the wealth through tax dollars of the many to a few.



Actually that is a misconception known as the broken window fallacy. I shall explain just because you break a window does not mean that by employing someone to fix it is good for business. It is actually a net loss due damage having been done. Wars are by there very nature damaging physically and mentally. Sure they spur innovation in weapons but in peacetime many innovations also come about humans strive to improve no matter the situation.


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Offlineqman
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Re: A decent appraoch to wars in the Middle East [Re: unknown1123]
    #18711382 - 08/15/13 08:49 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

unknown1123 said:
"Our military is voluntarily based, people sign up for it and not draft based. These wars are appropriate because it keeps the battlefront over there rather than in our schools, hospitals, cities, etc.. It is necessary to have these seemingly rather pointless wars on their ground. We give our soldiers the best training, gear, protection, and place them in the scenario they signed up for and are trained to act in."

What do you think?




"because it keeps the battlefront over there rather than in our schools, hospitals, cities, ect."

Who told you this nonsense? How in the world do you think any country in the Middle-East could invade the US?  They can barely take care of themselves, never mind invade a country 5000 miles overseas.


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Offlineqman
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Re: A decent appraoch to wars in the Middle East [Re: mylfgur]
    #18711394 - 08/15/13 08:52 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mylfgur said:
Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Wars are bad for business I would prefer it if the whole world operated on a free market with a common currency.



:lolwut:
"Wars are bad for business" for whom, exactly? Wars have always been great for the businesses of arms, vehicular transportation, mercenaries, research and development in a vast array of fields, and of channeling the wealth through tax dollars of the many to a few.




Every war is a speculative investment at the end of the day, sometimes the war has a big payoff, others are a economic failure, Iraq looks like it was a big loser for the US.


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Offlinemylfgur
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Re: A decent appraoch to wars in the Middle East [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #18711415 - 08/15/13 08:55 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Quote:

mylfgur said:
Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Wars are bad for business I would prefer it if the whole world operated on a free market with a common currency.



:lolwut:
"Wars are bad for business" for whom, exactly? Wars have always been great for the businesses of arms, vehicular transportation, mercenaries, research and development in a vast array of fields, and of channeling the wealth through tax dollars of the many to a few.



Actually that is a misconception known as the broken window fallacy. I shall explain just because you break a window does not mean that by employing someone to fix it is good for business. It is actually a net loss due damage having been done. Wars are by there very nature damaging physically and mentally. Sure they spur innovation in weapons but in peacetime many innovations also come about humans strive to improve no matter the situation.



You still don't get my point. There are certainly those for whom war is "bad for business," namely for every American taxpayer not involved in the military industrial complex. If you take an average military budget estimate of 1.2 trillion divided by the 130,000,000 or so tax payers in the US you'll find they're sucking around 9000 dollars a year from each taxpayer (most of which accumulates as a deficit). Someone is getting paid on your tab, and its probably not you.


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
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Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
Re: A decent appraoch to wars in the Middle East [Re: mylfgur]
    #18711428 - 08/15/13 08:57 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mylfgur said:
Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Quote:

mylfgur said:
Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Wars are bad for business I would prefer it if the whole world operated on a free market with a common currency.



:lolwut:
"Wars are bad for business" for whom, exactly? Wars have always been great for the businesses of arms, vehicular transportation, mercenaries, research and development in a vast array of fields, and of channeling the wealth through tax dollars of the many to a few.



Actually that is a misconception known as the broken window fallacy. I shall explain just because you break a window does not mean that by employing someone to fix it is good for business. It is actually a net loss due damage having been done. Wars are by there very nature damaging physically and mentally. Sure they spur innovation in weapons but in peacetime many innovations also come about humans strive to improve no matter the situation.



You still don't get my point. There are certainly those for whom war is "bad for business," namely for every American taxpayer not involved in the military industrial complex. If you take an average military budget estimate of 1.2 trillion divided by the 130,000,000 or so tax payers in the US you'll find they're sucking around 9000 dollars a year from each taxpayer (most of which accumulates as a deficit). Someone is getting paid on your tab, and its probably not you.



You just proved my point obviously war is a net drain on the economy. It would be better if all those tax dollars were returned as refunds could maybe stimulate the economy some!


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Offlinemylfgur
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Re: A decent appraoch to wars in the Middle East [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #18711441 - 08/15/13 08:59 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
You just proved my point obviously war is a net drain on the economy. It would be better if all those tax dollars were returned as refunds could maybe stimulate the economy some!



Just because something is a net loss to the country doesn't mean it is misguided or not good for business for someone--namely those in real positions of power. The War in Iraq is doing exactly what it was intended to do to the economy.


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
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Posts: 11,671
Re: A decent appraoch to wars in the Middle East [Re: mylfgur]
    #18711458 - 08/15/13 09:02 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mylfgur said:
Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
You just proved my point obviously war is a net drain on the economy. It would be better if all those tax dollars were returned as refunds could maybe stimulate the economy some!



Just because something is a net loss to the country doesn't mean it is misguided or not good for business for someone--namely those in real positions of power. The War in Iraq is doing exactly what it was intended to do to the economy.



I agree with you I am just saying what I would prefer an open free market with one global currency.


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Invisibleunknown1123
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Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 5,813
Re: A decent appraoch to wars in the Middle East [Re: qman]
    #18711493 - 08/15/13 09:09 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

It's a paraphrase from a retired major general


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Offlineqman
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Re: A decent appraoch to wars in the Middle East [Re: unknown1123]
    #18711526 - 08/15/13 09:17 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

unknown1123 said:
It's a paraphrase from a retired major general




Someone has to spread the propoganda, scaring people usually is the best way.


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OfflineCannabischarlie
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Re: A decent appraoch to wars in the Middle East [Re: qman]
    #18711564 - 08/15/13 09:27 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

i don't think a common currency would ever be feasible


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
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Re: A decent appraoch to wars in the Middle East [Re: Cannabischarlie]
    #18711571 - 08/15/13 09:29 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Cannabischarlie said:
i don't think a common currency would ever be feasible



It would be difficult to implement no doubt however nothing worth doing is ever easy.


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Offlineqman
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Re: A decent appraoch to wars in the Middle East [Re: Cannabischarlie] * 1
    #18711622 - 08/15/13 09:42 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Cannabischarlie said:
i don't think a common currency would ever be feasible




A gold backed currency is more the norm than not in human history, this 40 year period of fiat money backed by nothing is just an experiment, one that will go bad someday.


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Offlinemylfgur
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Re: A decent appraoch to wars in the Middle East [Re: qman]
    #18711692 - 08/15/13 09:57 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Cannabischarlie said:
i don't think a common currency would ever be feasible




A gold backed currency is more the norm than not in human history, this 40 year period of fiat money backed by nothing is just an experiment, one that will go bad someday.




40 years seems a little short of a time frame. Fiat currency has been around in the US since basically its inception. The slippery slope began when the gold standard was abandoned in WWI not even two decades after it was imposed. The Great Depression marked the death of the gold standard globally. Even though US dollars were technically "backed by gold" until Nixon's term as president, the government simply used market rates of gold.

But haven't we reached the point in cultural evolution where human capital is far more valuable than a shiny metal? Don't get me wrong, gold and silver have their own uses but I'm pretty sure that technology, food, and medicine are far more valuable as pseudo-currencies, backed by fiat currency. Since these products are either necessary to continuing life or improve the quality of life, they in themselves give value to the currencies that prop up the state and its human capital that produces them.

I could argue that oil has become the major commodity that fiat currency is backed by, as well. Since the Marshall Plan in Europe after WWII which lent a hand in switching European countries off of coal and on to oil--a product that was produced mainly by the US and the Middle East at the time. The pipeline from Saudi Arabia cemented the European addiction to oil being purchased in American dollars. The idea of "Dutch Disease" as applied to oil-producing countries (mainly nationalized oil) really exemplifies how the resource has become entrenched in fiat currencies around the world.


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Offlineqman
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Re: A decent appraoch to wars in the Middle East [Re: mylfgur]
    #18711835 - 08/15/13 10:16 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mylfgur said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Cannabischarlie said:
i don't think a common currency would ever be feasible




A gold backed currency is more the norm than not in human history, this 40 year period of fiat money backed by nothing is just an experiment, one that will go bad someday.




40 years seems a little short of a time frame. Fiat currency has been around in the US since basically its inception. The slippery slope began when the gold standard was abandoned in WWI not even two decades after it was imposed. The Great Depression marked the death of the gold standard globally. Even though US dollars were technically "backed by gold" until Nixon's term as president, the government simply used market rates of gold.

But haven't we reached the point in cultural evolution where human capital is far more valuable than a shiny metal? Don't get me wrong, gold and silver have their own uses but I'm pretty sure that technology, food, and medicine are far more valuable as pseudo-currencies, backed by fiat currency. Since these products are either necessary to continuing life or improve the quality of life, they in themselves give value to the currencies that prop up the state and its human capital that produces them.

I could argue that oil has become the major commodity that fiat currency is backed by, as well. Since the Marshall Plan in Europe after WWII which lent a hand in switching European countries off of coal and on to oil--a product that was produced mainly by the US and the Middle East at the time. The pipeline from Saudi Arabia cemented the European addiction to oil being purchased in American dollars. The idea of "Dutch Disease" as applied to oil-producing countries (mainly nationalized oil) really exemplifies how the resource has become entrenched in fiat currencies around the world.




"The Great Depression marked the end of the gold standard globally" 

How do you figure?

The problem with oil is, it's not money, central banks can't store oil, it's not practical.  The "Petro Dollar" is what backs up the US currency today, which is created with military force.

Maintaining the petro dollar is the main goal, but China, Russia, and others in the Middle East don't think it's fair, because it's not fair. If or when the world rejects the petro dollar, it will not be a good thing for the US, some think it's just a matter of time.


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