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Anonymous #2
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Re: Book on the psychiatry industry [Re: Anonymous #1]
#18722659 - 08/18/13 12:22 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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PSYCHOLOGY IS PURE EVIL!!!!
Did yuo know that psychology is latin for "sin of the mind?"
Never take any medication ANYONE EVER gives you, it's all poison and they trying to kill you!
I know people who had a bad experience with therapy and now I know FOR A FACT that psycohogly doesn't work because it didn't work on like the 3 people I know that had sessions!!!!
BAN PSYCHOLOGY.
The-rapists just try to pry all the info out of you when you admit youre suicidal and that is NOT COOL, no one can know anything about you because they're only trying to KILL YOU with their "MEDICATION."
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Anonymous #1
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Re: Book on the psychiatry industry [Re: zzripz]
#18722679 - 08/18/13 12:28 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzripz said: Also, I am curious. Why are you anonymous? Are you a doctor, and do you work in the mental health movement. You seem to me VERY contradictory--on one hand seeming to speak up for victims of biopsychiatry and on the other trying to show 'evidence' their brains are damaged and need treatment.
Would my credentials be any better if I took off anonymity and my user display was "shroomplugger82"?
My stance is not contradictory. If you can't rationalize it based on everything I've said, I'll put the best tl;dr I can here:
Many people are victims of bio-psychiatry because it hasn't advanced to the point that we're fully aware of what it is we're fiddling with, and as such it's irresponsible to continue doing so under the pretense of "scientific rationale". However, that doesn't mean that people who are getting damaged by bio-psychiatry don't need any kind of help, it's that the help they need isn't available. That's either because we haven't discovered it, or the practice is considered obsolete and is no longer in use (specifically referring to the mental health retreats).
Edited by Anonymous (08/18/13 12:29 PM)
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XUL
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Re: Book on the psychiatry industry [Re: Anonymous #1] 1
#18723751 - 08/18/13 05:02 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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WHy is that person's account of the terrible effects of that drug 'trivial'? To you that may well be because your not them, but you seem not to have any empathy to even use that term.
No, it's trivial to our discussion because it is only one man's account. If you showed me a study of 10,000 people who reported negative effects then I might be persuaded.
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I just dont get why you feel you need their pills
Who is they? who is their? The evil psychiatrists and doctors? lol
Because it makes me function better. One example of myself:
-A terrified recluse who has panic attacks in class so bad that he cannot pay attention to his lectures VS a relaxed individual who makes great grades, socializes with his classmates, and partakes in many activities he never thought he could-
That was my transformation.
If you don't like the pills then don't take the pills. 
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TRUMP 2020
Edited by XUL (08/18/13 05:44 PM)
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zzripz
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Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
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Re: Book on the psychiatry industry [Re: XUL]
#18725833 - 08/19/13 02:25 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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It is NOT just one account. There are MANY accounts how psychiatric drugs have done and continue to do harm. And they are highly addictive and can cause people to be violent and commit suicide. Read some literature about it. If you did you would know people who have been diagnosed with a collection of labels by shinks which they routinely change according to which shrink they see ---which doesn't happen in real medical diagnoses, where doctors will agree because of medical tests--have successfully got OFF their medication and lead creatively maladjusted lives, DESPITE being told by the shrinks they saw that they would need to be on medication for life!
MAYbe the person in your example doesn't deep down wanna be the good little scholar with the good grades, and the good career bla bla? Maybe that is his parents dream that she is doing to please them, and that is one of the roots of her anxiety, and s/he may even be unconscious of not wanting to do it hence the inner tension. Life is far more complex than relying on fukin pills to make you conform to whatever is expected of you by this insane culture.
As I keep saying, IF you want to take pills for life that is your choice. But also be aware that the 'diagnoses' you and your dad had regarding having 'mental illnesses'---there is absolutely no medical science to support them.
Edited by zzripz (08/19/13 02:37 AM)
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Mufungo
Coming at ya


Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 2,743
Loc: Knowhere
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Re: Book on the psychiatry industry [Re: Anonymous #2]
#18725982 - 08/19/13 04:39 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Anonymous said: PSYCHOLOGY IS PURE EVIL!!!!
Did yuo know that psychology is latin for "sin of the mind?"
Never take any medication ANYONE EVER gives you, it's all poison and they trying to kill you!
I know people who had a bad experience with therapy and now I know FOR A FACT that psycohogly doesn't work because it didn't work on like the 3 people I know that had sessions!!!!
BAN PSYCHOLOGY.
The-rapists just try to pry all the info out of you when you admit youre suicidal and that is NOT COOL, no one can know anything about you because they're only trying to KILL YOU with their "MEDICATION."
Did you know that pizza is latin for "sin of the bowels". I know three people who got sick from eating pizza. This makes me an expert in knowing with absolute certainty that all pizza is evil and will make you sick. Don't eat pizza, it should be banned.
Sorry, I couldn't resist but to get on the "let's be ridiculous and spread misinformation" bandwagon.
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Mufungo
Coming at ya


Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 2,743
Loc: Knowhere
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Re: Book on the psychiatry industry [Re: zzripz]
#18726000 - 08/19/13 04:58 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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zzripz said: It is NOT just one account. There are MANY accounts how psychiatric drugs have done and continue to do harm. And they are highly addictive and can cause people to be violent and commit suicide. Read some literature about it. If you did you would know people who have been diagnosed with a collection of labels by shinks which they routinely change according to which shrink they see ---which doesn't happen in real medical diagnoses, where doctors will agree because of medical tests--have successfully got OFF their medication and lead creatively maladjusted lives, DESPITE being told by the shrinks they saw that they would need to be on medication for life!
MAYbe the person in your example doesn't deep down wanna be the good little scholar with the good grades, and the good career bla bla? Maybe that is his parents dream that she is doing to please them, and that is one of the roots of her anxiety, and s/he may even be unconscious of not wanting to do it hence the inner tension. Life is far more complex than relying on fukin pills to make you conform to whatever is expected of you by this insane culture.
As I keep saying, IF you want to take pills for life that is your choice. But also be aware that the 'diagnoses' you and your dad had regarding having 'mental illnesses'---there is absolutely no medical science to support them.
And there are MANY accounts of how psychiatric drugs have done and continue to do benefit to people.
Psych is far from a perfect science and diagnosis of mental illness is more complicated due to there rarely being a tangible thing to measure. But medical science has plenty of screw ups too. There are plenty of false positives and misdiagnoses in medicine, and also deaths and harm in medicine from incorrect medical procedures or inappropriate prescriptions of drugs. Your comparison of psych industry with medical industry is somewhat misguided and naive.
But of course let's ignore the benefits that can be provided for peole from therapy and even psych-meds and lets ignore that the even the medical industry causes a lot of harm... because all these details would contradict and water down the preconceived beliefs you hold and are trying in vain to convince others of.
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XUL
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Registered: 03/16/05
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Re: Book on the psychiatry industry [Re: Mufungo]
#18726281 - 08/19/13 07:25 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
MAYbe the person in your example doesn't deep down wanna be the good little scholar with the good grades, and the good career bla bla?
Well, look at you; the internet psychologist.
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TRUMP 2020
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zzripz
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Registered: 12/23/08
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Re: Book on the psychiatry industry [Re: Mufungo]
#18726293 - 08/19/13 07:33 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mufungo said:
Quote:
zzripz said: It is NOT just one account. There are MANY accounts how psychiatric drugs have done and continue to do harm. And they are highly addictive and can cause people to be violent and commit suicide. Read some literature about it. If you did you would know people who have been diagnosed with a collection of labels by shinks which they routinely change according to which shrink they see ---which doesn't happen in real medical diagnoses, where doctors will agree because of medical tests--have successfully got OFF their medication and lead creatively maladjusted lives, DESPITE being told by the shrinks they saw that they would need to be on medication for life!
MAYbe the person in your example doesn't deep down wanna be the good little scholar with the good grades, and the good career bla bla? Maybe that is his parents dream that she is doing to please them, and that is one of the roots of her anxiety, and s/he may even be unconscious of not wanting to do it hence the inner tension. Life is far more complex than relying on fukin pills to make you conform to whatever is expected of you by this insane culture.
As I keep saying, IF you want to take pills for life that is your choice. But also be aware that the 'diagnoses' you and your dad had regarding having 'mental illnesses'---there is absolutely no medical science to support them.
And there are MANY accounts of how psychiatric drugs have done and continue to do benefit to people.
Psych is far from a perfect science and diagnosis of mental illness is more complicated due to there rarely being a tangible thing to measure. But medical science has plenty of screw ups too. There are plenty of false positives and misdiagnoses in medicine, and also deaths and harm in medicine from incorrect medical procedures or inappropriate prescriptions of drugs. Your comparison of psych industry with medical industry is somewhat misguided and naive.
But of course let's ignore the benefits that can be provided for peole from therapy and even psych-meds and lets ignore that the even the medical industry causes a lot of harm... because all these details would contradict and water down the preconceived beliefs you hold and are trying in vain to convince others of.
I am actually also critical of the established medical model per se, because it is based on treating people as machines, so don't assume. HOWEVER, it is very so that if a medical diagnosis for say bowel cancer is agreed by ONE doctor in America, it will usually be so by another doctor in China, or Istanbul, or anywhere, because there are medical tests to show prove it. Yes?
However, it is very common for individuals in America --etc-- in one CITY who are classed as 'mentally ill', to receive different "diagnoses" from different psychiatrists. Different labels. And this can happen because it is subjective and there are no tests, so that one shrink canclaim what ya got is one thing, and another chrink will say something different, and there can be combinations of labels---that will get the person more drugs
As for your argument that some people choose the 'medications' and claim they help them. Well then they should have the freedom to take them, but if you have not understood, because I have repeated this several times in this thread by now, I am for informed consent. This means that they would ALSO know that there is no medical scientific evidence which proves what they've been diagnosed with are real biological diseases! Because if a shrink has convinced someone they have a real biological illness that requires medication for life, then that is uninformed information, because it is not true.
This is why psychiatric survivors from Mindfreedom went on a hungerstrike to challenge the Psychiatric establishment (APA) to PROVE their case that mental illness was biological illness, and the APA failed to do so! Though would not, and still will not admit this is the case. But apparently this non-admittance or denial of the lack of medical science, and lying to people to make money, and have power-over others, who are not in-the-know, is NOT a mental disorder, with drugs at the ready to "treat" it---hmmm THAT's convenient isn't it--??!
You can find out all about this famous and very important Mindfreedom hungerstrike online.
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Mufungo
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Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 2,743
Loc: Knowhere
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Re: Book on the psychiatry industry [Re: zzripz]
#18726766 - 08/19/13 09:50 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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zzripz said: I am actually also critical of the established medical model per se, because it is based on treating people as machines, so don't assume.
I never said that you weren't critical of the established medical model. My comment related to how you were making an erroneous comparison between the medical field and the psychological field and then failed to admit that the reliability of diagnosis in the medical field isn't without its problems.
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zzripz said: HOWEVER, it is very so that if a medical diagnosis for say bowel cancer is agreed by ONE doctor in America, it will usually be so by another doctor in China, or Istanbul, or anywhere, because there are medical tests to show prove it. Yes?
It would depend. How large is a cancer in your example? The size of a grapefruit, yeah, their diagnosis will most likely concur. Smaller than 10mm, then you might get a variety of opinions. Sometimes a diagnosis will be more straight forward and there will be more agreement between professionals, but it depends on the presentation and factors that can be observed.
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zzripz said: However, it is very common for individuals in America --etc-- in one CITY who are classed as 'mentally ill', to receive different "diagnoses" from different psychiatrists. Different labels. And this can happen because it is subjective and there are no tests, so that one shrink canclaim what ya got is one thing, and another chrink will say something different, and there can be combinations of labels---that will get the person more drugs
Quote:
Mufungo said: Psych is far from a perfect science and diagnosis of mental illness is more complicated due to there rarely being a tangible thing to measure.
The accuracy of a diagnosis in mental illness will depend on the presentation and what details the therapist is able to obtain and observe. Some situations it might be more obvious than other situations. Some situations therapists might agree easier than others. Psychology/psychiatry, relative to medicine, is still in its infancy. So yeah, for peace of mind someone should get a second or third opinion for sure and explore all their options, as they should even with a medical diagnosis.
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zzripz said: As for your argument that some people choose the 'medications' and claim they help them. Well then they should have the freedom to take them, but if you have not understood, because I have repeated this several times in this thread by now, I am for informed consent. This means that they would ALSO know that there is no medical scientific evidence which proves what they've been diagnosed with are real biological diseases! Because if a shrink has convinced someone they have a real biological illness that requires medication for life, then that is uninformed information, because it is not true.
See, this is where you're confused about diagnosis, either medical or psychological. There doesn't need to be a diagnosis of a real biological disease most of the time. For example, when a person has flu like symptoms, the doctor does not conduct any tests to confirm that they have a flu before offering a diagnosis and treating it accordingly. If the person gets better, then great. If they don't get better, then further investigation and possibly a new diagnosis is formed. When someone feels psychologically unwell and present with a list of symptoms, then a therapist may make a diagnosis and suggest some form of treatment.
There seems to be the implication you're making, and please clarify if you're not, that there needs to be absolute certainty before taking action. We need to be absolutely certain about a diagnosis and have to be therefore absolutely certain about the effectiveness of a treatment. Well... that's of course just fantasy and shows a naive lack of understanding about how diagnostic/treatment system works.
Medical theories have evolved a long way from back when bad spirits were the proposed causes and leaches, blood letting, etc, were the preferred treatments... and they have a long way to go.
Psychological models have come a long way from where they started... and they have a long way to go. No progress will be made by throwing the baby out with the bathwater and abandoning the whole field. There is value within the field, and value in current treatments for a lot of people, but there are also people who don't benefit or perhaps are worse as a result of treatment. The same can happen in medicine. All of these details, the bad AND the good, need to be presented for someone to make an informed understanding. Everything you have written is quite lop sided and biased for someone to make a reasonably informed choice. So maybe you should try living up to the standards which you expect from others.
The issue you raise of informed consent can be carried out well or poorly depending on the practitioner and how they inform the client/patient will depend on the models to which they work with and the details upon which they used to make a diagnosis. But don't be further mistaken, informed consent and the effectiveness of a treatment are two different things. A treatment can be effective even if there is no informed consent and vice versa. You seem to be confusing this and saying, "the field of psychology/psychiatry is ALL shit because there's no way for absolute informed consent because of the subjective nature of the diagnostic process".
Quote:
zzripz said: This is why psychiatric survivors from Mindfreedom went on a hungerstrike to challenge the Psychiatric establishment (APA) to PROVE their case that mental illness was biological illness, and the APA failed to do so! Though would not, and still will not admit this is the case. But apparently this non-admittance or denial of the lack of medical science, and lying to people to make money, and have power-over others, who are not in-the-know, is NOT a mental disorder, with drugs at the ready to "treat" it---hmmm THAT's convenient isn't it--??!
You can find out all about this famous and very important Mindfreedom hungerstrike online.
I don't want to detract from the seriousness of the issues and suffering of the people in Mindfreedom. But why would anyone respond to that sort of ridiculous demand when they so clearly don't have a grasp of how the medical or psychological process works. There is plenty of scientific evidence that physiology affects psychology and vice versa. There's plenty of studies that show how treatments are effective or not effective at treating different constellations of symptoms. There's plenty of research on the pros and cons, validity, and reliance of diagnosis. And there's continuing research to determine biological means for diagnosing different disorders... that have resulted in discoveries of fragile X syndrome, rett syndrome, smith-magenis syndrome, etc. But to expect at this time absolute proofs that ALL mental illness have a clear and determinant biological causes, then that's a little foolish and setting yourself up for disappointment.
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zzripz
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Re: Book on the psychiatry industry [Re: Mufungo]
#18730749 - 08/20/13 02:20 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't want to detract from the seriousness of the issues and suffering of the people in Mindfreedom. But why would anyone respond to that sort of ridiculous demand when they so clearly don't have a grasp of how the medical or psychological process works.
First question: Are you a doctor, a therapist, or do you work doing anything in the mental health movement? I don't, but I am just curious about as you seem to think you know so much.
and 2nd did you even read the Mindfreedom links I gave you? ALL of it?
and 3rdly, have you read ANYthing by the major critics of biopsychiatry, such as Thomas Szasz, R.D.Laing, or Dr Peter Breggin? I can let you know what I have read, but would like to know what you have also?
Edited by zzripz (08/20/13 02:21 AM)
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Book on the psychiatry industry [Re: Anonymous #2]
#18734330 - 08/20/13 09:04 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Did yuo know that psychology is latin for "sin of the mind?"
Did you know that you were wrong? The suffice -logy, as in every other discipline with the suffix, derives from the Greek word Logos, which is variously translated as word, reason, or inquiry. Psyche means mind or soul or butterfly in Greek, owing to its transformational as well as its beautiful nature. Psychelogy doesn't work grammatically, hence psychology - study of the mind. As far as "The-rapist" goes, I prefer 'Psycho the rapist,' personally. The shingle on my house reads "Psychotherapist," but I like to reframe it for people in jest of course. I am neither 'psycho' or a 'rapist.' BTW, it's best if you get your paranoia in check. It is, after all, delusional from where I'm sitting. Just saying.
By the way, in Greek, the term for sin is hamartia. It is an archery reference which means 'missing the mark.' Since my name is Mark, I rather like the association.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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