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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: All my Organic Food keeps going bad [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #18710338 - 08/15/13 05:31 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

:goodluckwiththat2:


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: All my Organic Food keeps going bad [Re: nicechrisman]
    #18710345 - 08/15/13 05:32 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)



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Re: All my Organic Food keeps going bad [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #18710348 - 08/15/13 05:33 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Re: GE foods | http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18709787#18709787


Here's Gabriel Cousens' view. Anyone care to read it and give their opinion?

Note: Contains type-os because it was OCRed. Examples of type-os include 1 in place of I. Should be readable though.


GENETICALLY ENGINEERED FOODS: "IF IT’S NOT BROKEN, DON’T FIX IT”

Genetically engineered foods provide a more significant threat to our delicate worldwide ecosystems than even pesticides and herbicides. 1 want to quote John Hagelin, an award-winning quantum physicist and candidate who ran for president on the Natural Law Party ticket. He says, "When genetic engineers disregard the genetic boundaries set in place by natural law, they run the risk of destroying our genetic encyclopedia, compromising the richness of our biodiversity, creating a genetic soup. What this means for the future of our ecosystem, no one knows.”

Dr. John Fagan, internationally recognized molecular biologist and former genetic engineer, says, "We are living today in a very delicate time, one that is reminiscent of the birth of the nuclear era, when mankind stood on the threshold of a new technology. No one knew that nuclear power would bring us to the brink of annihilation or fill our planet with highly toxic radioactive waste. We were so excited by the power of a new discovery that we leaped ahead blindly, and without caution. Today the situation with genetic engineering is perhaps even more grave because this technology acts on the very blueprint of life itself.”

When you do not know what you are doing, and you insist on meddling, you have the potential to create a great deal of damage. There is an old saying: "If it’s not broken, don't fix it.”

The dangers of genetically engineered (GE) foods—also known as GMOs, genetically modified organisms—are multiple.

Once a gene is inserted into an organism, it can cause unanticipated side effects. Mutations and side effects can cause genetically engineered food to contain toxins and allergens and also to be reduced in nutritional value.

GE foods have potential to cause damage to the ecosystem, harm to wildlife, and alterations to the natural habitat. Our plant and animal species have evolved over millions of years, and introducing genetically engineered species upsets the delicate balance of the ecology.

Gene pollution can never be cleaned up.

The use of GE crops increases pesticide pollution of food and water supplies. Approximately 57% of the research done by biotechnology companies is focused on the development of plants that can tolerate larger amounts of herbicides.

GE foods may cause unpredictable, permanent changes in the nature of our food. The essential problem is that the genetic structures of our plants and animals have been nourishing the human race for thousands of years. Because genetic engineering is far from an exact science, the new genetic structure of a plant could give rise to unusual proteins that could really cause a problem for humans and our health. Examples of "leaky genes” or genetically engineered plants cross-pollinating with traditional varieties and passing on the genetically engineered trait have been reported in several places. In 2000, the National Institute of Agricultural Botany reported the first genetically modified super-weed in Britain. Pollen from a genetically engineered canola crossed with wild turnips. These turnips inherited the herbicide-resistant genes. In Mexico, cross-pollinating from genetically engineered corn has spread as far as sixty miles away. Reports in Canada that weeds are now able to tolerate herbicides designed for herbicide-resistant genetically modified crops have been showing up since 2000.

GE foods may be missing important elements or have changes in the nutrient ratios. Genetic engineering may accidentally or intentionally remove or inactivate substances in food that the engineers consider undesirable, but the new food or the missing substance may have particular qualities that we do not quite understand. For example, the nutrient chemistry in genetically

engineered soy reveals 29% less choline, needed for nervous system development, and 27% more trypsin inhibitor, which inhibits protein digestion, and 200% more lectins, which are associated with greater food sensitivity.

The use of GE foods results in decreased effectiveness of antibiotics. It is now commonplace in genetic engineering to introduce antibiotics in genes as a marker to indicate that the organism has been successfully engineered. What we are looking at now may be foods with the potential to inactivate antibiotics.

GE foods can cause allergic reactions. One of the problems of these newly identified proteins is that the human body is simply not programmed to deal with them. One of the responses of the body to unnatural and toxic food is to have an allergic reaction. Reports of increased allergies to GE soy products are already coming out. Soy, which is now 70% GE in the U.S., has moved into the top ten allergic foods. It is now associated with significantly more severe allergies.

Harmful effects may not be discovered for years, in the sense that we do not have an idea of what can potentially happen as we introduce these new foods into our diet. As I point out in Conscious Eating, in my chapter on the biologically altered brain, there have been significant changes in quality of health as we have introduced refined, fried, fast, and junk food into our Western diet since the 1930s. What makes us possibly think that by further interfering with natural foods through genetic engineering that we are not going to cause more and more serious problems, and further alter the biologically altered brain? There are no long-term studies to prove the safety of genetically altered foods. I do not even want to wait to see these studies, because results will not be available until thirty years after the fact, and by that time, it will be too late.

GE organisms can have unanticipated negative ecological impact. There are some genetically engineered bacteria that looked like they were useful in one limited way, but independent researchers have discovered that they are capable of making the land infertile. One case to make this point is a bacterium called Klebsiella planticola. This soil bacterium has been genetically engineered

to dispose of wood chips, corn stalks, and waste from lumber business and agriculture. As it turns out, it also produces ethanol in the process. When seeds were planted in soil that contained the waste products of this bacterium, they sprouted and died. The independent researchers found that the genetically engineered klebsiella is highly competitive with native soil microorganisms and strongly suppresses their activities. We need the more than 1,600 species of microorganisms found in a teaspoon of soil in order to have vital force in the soil. If it is not obvious, it should be—we cannot predict the effect of a new microorganism on the ecology and the environment. "If it’s not broken, don’t fix it.”

GE foods may create newer and higher levels of toxins in the environment. Many plants produce a variety of compounds that are toxic to humans or alter the food quality. Generally speaking, as I point out in Conscious Eating, these toxic elements do not cause problems in the levels normally found in plants, unless we consume those plants in large quantities.

The practice of combining plant and animal species in engineered foods has the potential to create new and unpredictable levels of toxins. Even the FDA and the EPA now classify as insecticides certain corn and potato strains that are engineered to produce toxins that will kill insects. These plants are no longer even classified as vegetables! Insect-resistant crops make up about one-quarter of the acres of transgenic plants. One of the most serious ecological threats is crops carrying a gene from Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt). The Bt gene transferred into corn and cotton kills leaf-eating caterpillars. Every cell of these plants contains the Bt gene and produces Bt toxin. Bt is one of the world's most important biological pesticides. This is a direct threat to organic farmers. In 1999. the International Federation of Organic Agricultural Movements joined with the Center for Food Safety and Greenpeace in a lawsuit against the EPA, which approved genetically engineered Bt cotton, corn, and potatoes. Monsanto's Bt cotton harms a wider range of insects, including lacewings and ladybugs, and causes bees to be confused in their ability to distinguish the different smells of flowers. Monarch butterfly caterpillars, according to the journal Nature, were being killed by pollen from Bt corn. What

potential damage might Bt toxin crops have on the flora that live in our own intestines?

How much proof do we need to see before we realize that genetic engineering can potentially create biological chaos? Genetic engineering companies try to make the claim that these genetically engineered foods are natural and equivalent to the original genetic strains. But that really is not the case. For example, although the industry has presented more than 1,400 examples of analyses demonstrating that Round-Up Ready soy is the "substantial” equivalent of natural soy, the manufacturer’s own studies on cows suggest that when the herbicide Round-Up is sprayed on Round-Up Ready soy, the defensive response of the plant leads to increased plant estrogen levels. Therefore, it is possible that the sprayed soybeans contain a higher level of plant estrogen than the natural beans. The implications of this are obvious. We also know that a significant amount of people have become allergic to soy protein with stronger allergies than before, when exposed to genetically engineered soy.

Using bacteria to make genetically engineered tryptophan is another example of how toxins are created beyond our understanding. In 1989, there was an outbreak of a disease called eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome (EMS). A company selling tryptophan that was produced by genetically engineered bacteria was found to be the source of the problem. The tryptophan itself did not seem to be causing the EMS but rather the contaminants, which made up only .01% of the marketed product by weight. When the bacteria were genetically altered to produce these larger quantities of tryptophan, the increased concentration of tryptophan reached such high levels that unexpected chemical reactions produced new kinds of toxins which led to the EMS. However, this toxic tryptophan would have passed as a "substantial” equivalent and also passed the test for known toxin. The point is that we cannot test for toxins we do not even know about. The result of this genetically engineered tryptophan fiasco is that 37 people died, 1,500 people were partially paralyzed, and 5,000 were temporarily disabled.

One of the biggest problems with genetically engineered plants is their presumed ability to tolerate unlimited pesticides. In the ’60s, the "green revolution”

created higher crop yield at first, but then serious problems surfaced over time. With large-scale use of high-yield seed, higher levels of fertilizers and pesticides had to be used. Both of these inputs are costly, ecologically damaging, and damaging to the health of farm workers. The aggressive use of monoculture production destroyed the diversity of local ecologies, affected traditional crop varieties, and led to permanent loss of crop diversity. The need for increased irrigation used groundwater supplies faster than they were replenished, and a soil erosion problem developed. Then, after a few years, those "disease-resistant” crops began to become infected. Since the green revolution (over the last forty years), the use of pesticides in some places has undergone almost a ten-fold increase, and the crops destroyed by insects have nearly doubled. There are now more than five hundred species of insects that are pesticide-resistant.

These crops, because of the way they are commercially grown, are less nutritious. Some studies have found a reduction in IQ, of up to ten points in the generation of children brought up on these "green revolution" foods. Genetically engineered crops—because they are so strongly tied to a monoculture approach, chemical fertilizer, herbicides, and pesticides—will probably cause an increase in all of the health and mental health problems associated with the "green revolution," and possibly on a grander and more serious scale, because the gene pool will have been disrupted. One clear example is the significantly increased use of Round-Up, the Monsanto herbicide that is sold along with the Round-Up Ready crops of soy, corn, and canola. According to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, at least seventy-four plant species are endangered by Round-Up, and it kills fish at concentrations of IO parts per million, impedes the growth of earthworms, and is toxic to soil microbes that help plants take up nutrients from the soil. The active ingredient in Round-Up is glycophosphate. In the 1990s, glycophosphate was listed as the third most common cause of all forms of pesticide-related illness in California. Studies have also linked exposure to glycophosphate with an increased risk of developing non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, the third-fastest-growing cancer in the U.S. Already, the Round-Up Ready crops are needing higher doses of

Round-Up to control the pests that commonly attack them. In the late '9°s' the FDA tripled the amount of Round-Up active ingredient allowed to remain on crops, since the residue levels were exceeding the allowable legal limit set previously.

Nevertheless, because of economic incentives, the scourge of genetically engineered foods has increased. By the year 2000, two-thirds of the foods sold in U.S. supermarkets included genetically modified substances. In 1996 and 1997. there were nineteen genetically engineered products on the market. Now there are more than thirty. These include three varieties of soybeans, eleven varieties of corn (this does not include blue corn), four varieties of canola, papaya, two varieties of potatoes, five varieties of tomatoes, two varieties of yellow crooked-neck squash, five varieties of cotton, and dairy products. There are also products that originate from genetically engineered organisms, including candies, cookies, breads, cereals, corn syrup, oils, juices, detergents, dough conditioners, yeast, sugar, animal feeds, vitamins, and enzymes used in the processing of cheese. Genetically engineered soy is in soy flour, soy oil, lecithin, soy protein isolates, concentrates, vitamin E supplements, tofu dogs, cereals, veggie burgers, sausages, tamari, soy sauce, chips, ice cream, frozen yogurt, infant formula, sauces, margarine, soy cheeses, cookies, chocolates, cakes, fried foods, shampoos, bubble bath, cosmetics, and enriched flours and pastas.

Genetically engineered corn is in corn flour, cornstarch, corn sweeteners, corn oil, and many syrups. Products that may contain GE corn derivatives include vitamin C, tofu dogs, chips, candies, ice cream, infant formula, salad dressing, tomato sauce, breads, cookies, cereals, baking powder, alcohol, vanilla, margarine, soy sauce, tamari, sodas, fried foods, powdered sugar, and enriched flours and pastas.

Because genetically engineered canola is so prevalent, it is found in most canola oil products that contain canola derivatives. These include chips, salad dressings, cookies, margarines, soaps, detergents, soy cheese, and fried foods. Genetically engineered cotton is found in many fabrics and in cottonseed oil, as well as in products that contain fabrics or cottonseed oil, such as clothes,

linens, chips, peanut butter, crackers, and cookies. With GE potatoes we are obviously looking at not only fresh potatoes, but potato chips, fries, mashed potatoes, baked potatoes, mixes, Passover products, vegetable products, and soups. With tomatoes, we are looking at sauces, purees, pizza, and lasagna. It appears that no plum or roma tomatoes have been genetically engineered and only one cherry tomato has been, but this may not even be true by the time this book is published. Most non-organic papayas grown in Hawaii are genetically engineered. Some crooked-neck squash and zucchini are genetically engineered.

Since 95% of the soymeal and approximately 90% of the corn grown in the U.S. are used as livestock feed, almost all non-organic meat, poultry, dairy, or egg products sold in the U.S. contain genetically engineered substances.

The possible dangers of eating genetically engineered foods and/or foods that contain genetically modified substances were highlighted by the research of Dr. Arpad Pasztai, a senior scientist at the Rowett Research Institute in Aberdeen, Scotland. He fed genetically engineered potatoes to rats. The rats developed smaller hearts, livers, and brains, and had weaker immune systems. Some rats showed significant brain shrinkage after only ten days of eating genetically modified potatoes. I consider this the most significant piece of data on the health dangers of GMOs and an ominous warning.

Public relations hacks for GE foods talk about their importance for "feeding the world's hungry." This is a cruel joke on the truth. The GE foods produce crops that are primarily intended as feed for livestock, not to provide nutrition to people. Contrary to GE food corporate public relations about producing more per acre, genetically modified soybean actually produces 4% less than conventional varieties, according to the research of Agronomy professor Ed Oplinger at the University of Wisconsin. His study covered soybean yields in twelve U.S. states. Other studies with Monsanto’s transgenic soybeans showed IO% less productivity as compared to conventional varieties.

Part of the argument against genetically engineered food and for going organic is the importance of preserving heirloom seeds, which contain the original seed genetics. Heirloom seeds work on a deeper energetic soul level as well. Heirloom seeds contain the entire history of a people and of a land.

These seeds nourish our souls and strengthen our connection to the land. They are bred for nourishing people, not for making money. This shaman-istic. Earth-based understanding is in sharp contrast to the intent of the genetic engineering corporations. This contrast is becoming clearer to many people throughout the world. For example, Vandana Shiva, an Indian scientist, determined after an international meeting in 1987 that the corporate chemical and food companies were attempting to control agriculture through patents, genetic engineering, and mergers. She believes that what the global-economy corporations call "growth” is really a form of theft from nature and from people. The globalized economy has legalized corporate growth, based on harvests stolen from nature and people. In response to this threat, she started Navadanya, a movement in India for seed-saving to protect biodiversity and to keep seed and agriculture free of corporate monopoly control. It is interesting that Navadanya’s commitment to saving seeds means non-cooperation with patent laws that make the age-old practice of seed saving a crime. It is necessary to our survival that we follow her example by living and eating in a way that honors the natural and spiritual laws of the planet. Such a mass shift is a way that healing can take place.

So why does the corporate world push a technology that breeds ill health, is a danger to the world ecology, does not feed the world’s poor and hungry, and is actually less economically productive per acre? Robert T. Frailey, Co-President of Monsanto's agricultural sector, puts it bluntly, "It’s really a consolidation of the entire food chain." GE foods are created not because of health or productivity factors, but because they are patentable and give international corporations an opportunity to try to control the food chain and the world population that depends on it for sustenance.


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InvisibleVivaLaMushie
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Re: All my Organic Food keeps going bad [Re: nicechrisman]
    #18710349 - 08/15/13 05:33 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I haven't read this entire thread. I was just throwing out my 2¢ about frozen bread.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: All my Organic Food keeps going bad [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #18710363 - 08/15/13 05:36 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:




it's funny to see a show named Bullshit, when it's a SHOW ABOUT BULLSHIT. that's irony, at it's finest.

Quote:

VivaLaMushie said:
I haven't read this entire thread. I was just throwing out my 2¢ about frozen bread.



what a coincidence, same here. :rofl:


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: All my Organic Food keeps going bad [Re: Bodhi of Ankou] * 1
    #18710367 - 08/15/13 05:37 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:




How about some kind of source that involves "scientists" instead of comedians?


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: All my Organic Food keeps going bad [Re: nicechrisman] * 1
    #18710369 - 08/15/13 05:37 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

:rofl2:


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: All my Organic Food keeps going bad [Re: s240779]
    #18710393 - 08/15/13 05:41 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

What about the benefits. All he does is scare you with what-ifs. Nothing he claims is actually happening with GMO's, but they could. What about the potentials for production once we actually get a handle on how to properly code genetics. Now we may only be able to splice in a trait here and there, what if we this technology blossomed into something that could provide us with a level of efficiency and longevity that we can only dream of. Genetics are the next frontier in science, once its code gets broken down and we fully understand its mechanics society will take a huge leap forward. As much as you might hate genetics now they are the next step in our evolution.


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: All my Organic Food keeps going bad [Re: nicechrisman]
    #18710396 - 08/15/13 05:41 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:




How about some kind of source that involves "scientists" instead of comedians?




The science is there bro trust me, its been verified.


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: All my Organic Food keeps going bad [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #18710409 - 08/15/13 05:43 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Do you has any credible scientific studies to site or are you speaking based on your opinion/perception rather than fact?


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: All my Organic Food keeps going bad [Re: nicechrisman]
    #18710420 - 08/15/13 05:45 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

he's being credulous and insufferable, because he's probably made arguments like this before. maybe he's right, though? :shrug:


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Offlinewithoutawire
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Re: All my Organic Food keeps going bad [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18710423 - 08/15/13 05:45 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
damn right. fresh bread and shit is awesome. cheese and charcuterie and oils... :drooling:

let me get this straight, you don't use frozen breads as the center to your accompaniments in your grand munchie sessions, do you? just the fresh breads, right?




Just fresh bread. I eat one to two turkey or tuna sandwiches per week and one to two piece of toast per week hence the frozen bread that gets toasted.

The high quality bread and cheese combo ($12-$40 but usually I spend about $18) i eat about 3 times a month for my first or second meals (1pm and 4pm).


--------------------
:tigerbunny:


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: All my Organic Food keeps going bad [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18710429 - 08/15/13 05:46 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Could be. I'm not sure. I'm just sayin it's bold claims to make if you can't back it up.

I prefer to hope that organics are a feasible alternative and if it weren't for things like overpopulation that organics would be able to provide plenty for us all. That is my HOPE though and I am not trying to present it as fact.


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


Edited by nicechrisman (08/15/13 05:47 PM)


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: All my Organic Food keeps going bad [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18710443 - 08/15/13 05:48 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

No, my evidence is there, just like its there for the organic communities claims. Search it up yourself. Im not asking you to believe anything but dont just dig for the evidence of claims that run counter to yours. Dig for evidence of what you want to believe in as well, because I can guarantee you, if you ever tried looking up peer reviewed studies to the claims that GMO's are unhealthy you'd be hard pressed to come up with anything. Its useless to try and talk against people that believe in this type of thing because dissenting opinions are always held to a higher standard of scrutiny then their own. Its a fucking tricky little piece of human psychology.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: All my Organic Food keeps going bad [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #18710449 - 08/15/13 05:50 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

or maybe you're just overexaggerating your claims that people are getting sour over anything and nicechristian* is just trolling your ass?



*LOL


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: All my Organic Food keeps going bad [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #18710459 - 08/15/13 05:51 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I never said I believed in anything. I was just asking you to back up your bold and specific claim, which you so far have not :shrug:

And that's nicechrisMAN not niceCHRISTIAN Akira.:crankey:


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


Edited by nicechrisman (08/15/13 05:52 PM)


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: All my Organic Food keeps going bad [Re: nicechrisman]
    #18710469 - 08/15/13 05:52 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Answer mine, whats your stance on organic food?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: All my Organic Food keeps going bad [Re: nicechrisman]
    #18710473 - 08/15/13 05:53 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

what can i say, i always read it as that, because you're too damn nice! or, no wait, counter-troll.

yeah, that's what happened.  :aweshit:


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: All my Organic Food keeps going bad [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #18710491 - 08/15/13 05:57 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Well based on the incidence of cancer in modern society, it seems to me that there is SOMETHING that humans are ingesting in larger levels than we used to that may be a cause for this. One of the big changes in the human diet over said period of time would seem to me to be the introduction of modern farming methods. There are other things too that could be causing this such as diets higher in refined sugars as well as plastic residues in our food.

I prefer to eat organic for this reason when it's convenient and not absurdly priced, but I honestly don't go real far out of my way to do so. When I used to live next to a healthfood store, I mostly ate organic, but these days living in So Cal, I rarely do. I still wish I did more though. I do eat organics from my garden though (and smoke them too).


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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Re: All my Organic Food keeps going bad [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #18710499 - 08/15/13 05:58 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Answer mine, whats your stance on organic food?




One mistake many people make on the organic/non-oragnic subject is being too general. The organic standard applies differently to various foods. Some foods have little to no pesticide issue whether they're organic or not (not a big target for insects, inherently). Apparantly the pesticide issue is severe with meat and dairy. Many pesticides accumulate in fat and as a result one should only eat special, high grade meat/dairy where the feed (the best farms allow the animals to eat in the wild) given to the animals is definitely pesticide-free.


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