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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: teknix]
    #19185589 - 11/25/13 06:33 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Ownership carry's with it self through implication, in every instance I can think of.

:lol:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: teknix]
    #19185591 - 11/25/13 06:33 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
What do you consider a productive debate?




A productive debate is one in which an individual posits an idea for discussion, and another individual offers critique of that idea. As a result, the individuals successively engage in an exchange of lines of reasoning that seek to affirm their own viewpoint and disprove the other's viewpoint, in the event and on the points which they consider their viewpoints dissimilar. In a productive debate, each individual offers a response to what the other presented on each point of contention that arises, and an exchange of ideas takes place as a result.

Quote:


It's like I'm sitting outside of earths orbit, trying to explain to you that the earth is round (because I can see it as such) while you are on the surface claiming it is flat (because that is all you can see).




That's a beautiful story, but the facts of the debate indicate that you fail to respond to what I present regarding several points of contention that you initially were involved in discussing.
As far as a debate is concerned, that's all that matters, not imaginative stories tinged with superiority.
Who cares if you think you're correct and I'm wrong because of my own limitations in what I see? Objectively, you've failed to respond to points of contention.

Quote:


So you will adamantly disagree with me, until you see for yourself that the earth is round, and to do that requires opening your eyes and looking beyond self.




Sure, your imagination has all the answers for why you abandon points of contention. Which, of course, no one obliges you to actually participate in a debate; it just looks utterly pathetic when you keep pretending that you're in this debate.

Quote:


Those who are working with or beyond the idea of self shouldn't have much of a problem understanding what I am saying, those who are perceiving through the eyes of self will find it much more difficult (if ever), to see, because they are looking for that which they are perceiving through. Kind of like trying to look at your eyeball with the eyeball that is looking, and without a reflection to aid you.




If that were true, one would imagine that such a super-perceptive person that operates beyond the idea of self would be more capable of responding to points of contention than the short-sighted, ignorant individuals with whom they debate. :tongue2:

Quote:


I mean, how do you know there is an eyeball in your head that is seeing, if you have never seen an eyeball?




How do you know when a poster abandons points of contention? When they don't respond to them and make up bullshit stories that excuse themselves for their abandonment of the points of contention. :smirk:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: teknix]
    #19185601 - 11/25/13 06:37 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Then ownership should be defined as such. :cool:

The Implicative Self.



Quote:

teknix said:
Ownership carry's with it self through implication, in every instance I can think of.

:lol:




The definition of the word ownership already carries with it the fact that there is an implied self. :smirk:

Of course, I've already said this before, so it's pathetic to see you repeating it as if it were of actual consequence for what is happening in this debate. :lol:

The point regarding this that I've made that you've failed to respond to is that there is a big difference between self and sense of self or conceptualization of self.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #19185607 - 11/25/13 06:41 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

So you think that the implicative self is a real thing as well?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: teknix]
    #19185645 - 11/25/13 07:01 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
So you think that the implicative self is a real thing as well?




I think self exists, yes, and that ownership implies that the owner is an entity that, due to being an entity, has self.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #19185715 - 11/25/13 07:39 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

What about the entity is having a self if the self is that which has?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: teknix]
    #19185747 - 11/25/13 07:54 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
What about the entity is having a self if the self is that which has?




An entity has self in the sense that it contains it as an aspect of itself, not in the sense that the entity has self as a possession. :tongue2:


--------------------
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If I should die this very moment
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Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
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:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #19185752 - 11/25/13 07:57 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

teknix said:
So you think that the implicative self is a real thing as well?




I think self exists, yes, and that ownership implies that the owner is an entity that, due to being an entity, has self.




How does the self exist?


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #19185775 - 11/25/13 08:06 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You're not yourself are you?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: teknix]
    #19185994 - 11/25/13 09:09 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
How does the self exist?




Very carefully. :yesnod:

Quote:

teknix said:
You're not yourself are you?




Normally I have to drink a few to hear that one. :lol:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlineabsols
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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #19186276 - 11/25/13 10:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

the confusion is to what you don't recognize that self is only what is right, right is what points freedom rights, so self existence ways

the confusion is from not knowing the nature of being right

being right is out of infinite existence, so true existence for always fact of all right, alright..

being right is the freedom that act for present objective value, so would also consider objective rights free

that is why the way you are dealing the issue here is not true

right act free for else freedom too, so right is always opposed to rights property

the self so the being right, wont recognize being that
it is being right because of objective being alright so it must act real but according to else present value or best sense of, not because of its fact which cant be but the maximum free fact out of all existing as the reference to its true present fact

nature means to possess everyone beings, so mean rights as a possession of things for life freely

but this is wrong so you should stop meaning it yourselves too

freedom is the positive fact, the more you are free the more you realize right everything around you so the more you are true as everything is what is truly right, then the more your freedom out of all is present fact so positively really the most what you enjoy of now

possessions are wrong concept, from what it force the mean of else abuse as being right thing to do

possessions cant be right when by definition it denies the rights of things

the more something is an object the more it is right, as rights are about objective facts being to all rights, the all being rights are the reason of all being a whole free existence in positive value ends

that is why freedom rights are meaning entities existence alone, if rights are confirmed it is about confirming positively their rights to be out of everything else as they want, it is the subject else right to exist through relative means and not to mean absolutes first


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: absols]
    #19206676 - 11/29/13 10:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:



possessions cant be right when by definition it denies the rights of things






Exactly! :thumbup:

But this is also assuming the things have rights, when it is possible that rights may require self-awareness to be inherent, as in the ability to claim.


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Offlineabsols
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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: teknix]
    #19207999 - 11/30/13 10:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

no, infinite is first the value of free constancy

then anything the fact that it is in concept still same even a second, must be out relative value of being existing, so right and not in terms of what it looks like being still, but in true relation with present superiority of free things

I don't know how it is that easy for you to manipulate things ... it is unconscious drives of wills to put down truth value, for lies superiority

anyway, any object even a thought is possible because its superiority as free source is proven objectively, object concept is a relative fact of absolute objective known as existing values

that is how things are manipulated from reversing their facts known ... for free else wills to reverse superiority truth, like forcing superiority on others rights ..

in truth, superiority is freedom that act more alone to an objective extent that it would support others freedom as they are in real and wills

to give freely is to give freedom

you should know that self awareness is due to wills or hell of force

like being still is truly a superior value, it is not inactive at all, it is present but in subjective sense more, and it could be a future superior free right, as positive objective source

the most important point, is what it is wrong to force anything, you are then killing the potential value that cant be but absolutely free, when you force a reaction you kill the truth all

so the point is not for rights to justify themselves and show up what they mean !! there maybe no true free being right, still forcing anything is killing the truth and infinite rights, the value of absolutes freedom in  objective ends ..

whatever you want you can realize it out of yourself being relative, what is clearly meant being relative is still free, so no problem when it is present about something else



Edited by absols (11/30/13 10:12 AM)


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: absols]
    #24596616 - 09/01/17 05:41 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

absols said:
no, infinite is first the value of free constancy

then anything the fact that it is in concept still same even a second, must be out relative value of being existing, so right and not in terms of what it looks like being still, but in true relation with present superiority of free things

I don't know how it is that easy for you to manipulate things ... it is unconscious drives of wills to put down truth value, for lies superiority

anyway, any object even a thought is possible because its superiority as free source is proven objectively, object concept is a relative fact of absolute objective known as existing values

that is how things are manipulated from reversing their facts known ... for free else wills to reverse superiority truth, like forcing superiority on others rights ..

in truth, superiority is freedom that act more alone to an objective extent that it would support others freedom as they are in real and wills

to give freely is to give freedom

you should know that self awareness is due to wills or hell of force

like being still is truly a superior value, it is not inactive at all, it is present but in subjective sense more, and it could be a future superior free right, as positive objective source

the most important point, is what it is wrong to force anything, you are then killing the potential value that cant be but absolutely free, when you force a reaction you kill the truth all

so the point is not for rights to justify themselves and show up what they mean !! there maybe no true free being right, still forcing anything is killing the truth and infinite rights, the value of absolutes freedom in  objective ends ..

whatever you want you can realize it out of yourself being relative, what is clearly meant being relative is still free, so no problem when it is present about something else






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--------------------
.6th and 7th sense theory
.Now is forever. .ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞTheﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞUnseenﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ is seenﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ by the blindﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ eye.ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ
ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ
ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ.When the inevitable time comes, go with your head held high,without regret or remorse, in your subconscious mind.
ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ
ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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