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teknix
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To own infers an independence from nature.
#18709850 - 08/15/13 03:50 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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To own requires an object to be owned and an owner of that object.
In nature one object doesn't own another object, therefore ownership is not natural.
Atoms do not own one another, and if you think to own anything you are not a part of nature, but an idea that you made up to separate from nature.
Nature does not have an owner in reality, ownership can only be in a dualistic theory.
Therefore if you think you are something separate to own parts of nature that owner cannot be nature for nature could not own itself.
Everything we create is not natural, just because we are created naturally. (usually)
-------------------- .6th and 7th sense theory .Now is forever. .ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±Theο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο± ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±Unseenο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο± is seenο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο± by the blindο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο± eye.ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο± ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο± ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο± ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο± ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο± ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±.When the inevitable time comes, go with your head held high,without regret or remorse, in your subconscious mind. ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο± ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±ο±
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teknix
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Re: To own implies an independence from nature. [Re: teknix]
#18709898 - 08/15/13 03:58 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Therefore to own is not natural.
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kennedy


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Re: To own implies an independence from nature. [Re: teknix] 4
#18710024 - 08/15/13 04:31 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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I exercise functional, not metaphysical, ownership of objects.
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Sse
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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: teknix] 1
#18710162 - 08/15/13 04:55 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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nature is also without concepts
except that all this has naturally came about. It's a natural flow of life apparently
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
Edited by Sse (08/15/13 04:56 PM)
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Rahz
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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: teknix] 1
#18710209 - 08/15/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ownership is an agreement between humans which allows individuals to keep the fruits of their own labor.
We must be constantly on guard and willing to fight to insure our belongings aren't taken without consent by those who disagree. Natural.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "Youβre not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." βAyishat Akanbi
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Jaegar
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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: Rahz]
#18713302 - 08/16/13 06:31 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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With the surveillance powers governments can implement today through monitoring all communications and data transfers make any opposition compliant?
Is most or implied opposition nullified.
I'm sure with sure monitoring powers you could besmirch, incriminate anyone.
Edited by Jaegar (08/16/13 06:33 AM)
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hoodbran
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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: Jaegar]
#18715148 - 08/16/13 03:29 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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don't overcomplicate things, what is this I that Owns?
-------------------- Not all drugs are good, Some are great.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: teknix]
#18715436 - 08/16/13 04:36 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Despite your 'eloquent' argument you STILL will not give me all of your stuff to actually prove your point.
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handwaveee
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what exactly do you mean by own? In nature the concept of ownership exist. A lion can have ownership of territory. Pwnage also applies in nature. Lots of pwnage in nature.
Maybe the lion doesn't have consciousness as we experience it, but you know lions must have thoughts.
Or a pig.
Life is suffering has some truth to it.
Edited by handwaveee (08/16/13 06:09 PM)
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teknix
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:

Despite your 'eloquent' argument you STILL will not give me all of your stuff to actually prove your point.
I don't really have anything to give , for I would have to own something to give it.
If I were to give you everything that I own, you wouldn't get anything.
Owning creates a personal attachment to that which is owned, and inevitably builds a biased perspective towards those things by giving them more importance, just because it's yours and even attributes to the idea you have of yourself or who you are.
I don't mean that there aren't things to use, but that is about all it amounts to.
You would (maybe) let a friend use something that you call yours if he/she needed it, but you don't need to call it yours to use it or care for it. A world that is rational wouldn't own anything, they would simply allocate resources as needed for particular purposes.
If everything is nature's and nature can't own nature, then there must be something separate from nature to own it.
Why do you think you need it if you aren't using it, what is making it yours?
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Memories



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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: teknix]
#18723792 - 08/18/13 05:13 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ownership is just an agreement that allows one to dictate how a resource is used. It is perfectly natural, for if it wasn't, it wouldn't exist.
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LittileSkierDude
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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: teknix]
#18732277 - 08/20/13 01:19 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm not really sure how anything could ever be considered unnatural. Everything comes from nature and natural things, so doesn't that make everything natural?
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Icelander
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yes it does. It's only humans that think they are super natural or apart from.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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teknix
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Quote:
LittileSkierDude said: I'm not really sure how anything could ever be considered unnatural. Everything comes from nature and natural things, so doesn't that make everything natural?
Do you understand that to own something there has to be an owner and an owned?
If nature cannot own itself, then an owner of nature cannot be natural.
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teknix
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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: Icelander]
#18738817 - 08/21/13 05:36 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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If the logic isn't sound then please point it out.
(You've been given logical evidence)
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Icelander
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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: teknix]
#18739126 - 08/21/13 06:56 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said:
Quote:
LittileSkierDude said: I'm not really sure how anything could ever be considered unnatural. Everything comes from nature and natural things, so doesn't that make everything natural?
Do you understand that to own something there has to be an owner and an owned?
If nature cannot own itself, then an owner of nature cannot be natural.
That's such bs imo. You're just mucking about with words. Nothing unnatural is going on anywhere, ever. Every cultural concept is an outgrowth of the organic mind and inspired by nature. The lion kills the lamb and by force owns it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (08/21/13 06:58 PM)
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teknix
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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: Icelander]
#18739199 - 08/21/13 07:13 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Rofl, the lion isn't owning anything, it is feeding, which is required of all animals that have been documented on this planet. Even the autotrophs feed off the sun and water and minerals, and at no point is anything being owned, only atoms are being reorganized and restructured towards order rather then being disseminated into chaos ...
If you are a bunch of atoms, which atom is owning what?
All that carbon that makes up "you" is likely going to be recycled back into the earth, but those atoms no longer have ownership without that idea of separateness from nature. You think those atoms are somehow more relevant because you call them "yours".
So tell me what part of you is doing the owning?
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Icelander
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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: teknix] 1
#18739262 - 08/21/13 07:27 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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The forceful taking and holding is doing the owning. Go in and try to take that lamb from the lion and you will see that his forceful taking of that lamb is the basic idea behind owning. Without the force of law or the power of the stronger person nothing can be held or owned. The idea of ownership comes from nature itself.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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teknix
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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: Icelander]
#18739278 - 08/21/13 07:29 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's only for pretend and in illusion that "your" doing any owning. Just look at it and focus on what is owning rather than trying to formulate a reply.
You haven't refuted the logic of the OP and I doubt you ever will . . .
You can consider this a higher truth, true regardless of your personal belief or feelings about it.
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Icelander
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Re: To own infers an independence from nature. [Re: teknix]
#18739327 - 08/21/13 07:39 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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I consider anything nonsense and ignorant that claims to be unnatural. Your "higher truth". Your thoughts and mental images are also illusion and there is no substance to them. Are they unnatural?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (08/21/13 07:47 PM)
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