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Offlinedanny1989
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Psychedelics and Eastern Philosophy
    #18708270 - 08/15/13 08:54 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I'm interested in the connection between the psychedelic experience and Eastern philosophy. Psychedelics seem to bring Western minded people to "Eastern" conclusions about reality and self as well as enhance creativity; on the other hand, Eastern traditions and sages speak at times of psychedelic-like experiences encountered on the spiritual path, via meditation or even spontaneously in the case of unique individuals.

From a mainstream point of view – skeptic of mysticism, hostile to drugs and attached to the idea of a coherent, free and rational self - this connection is not mysterious: different ways to similar delusions. But for someone who happens to revere Eastern wisdom, it would appear that these might be different ways to the same Truth.
   
This brings up a few questions:

In Buddhism, in the practice of Anapanasati, out of the 16 steps to enlightenment, steps 5 and 6 are described as experiencing "rapture" and then "bliss", after developing deep levels of concentration. Are there any other religious traditions that seem to include "psychedelic" experiences developed through practice?

Spontaneous modes of expanded consciousness experienced by unique individuals seem universal; Jean Dark and Sir William Blake come to mind (both, consequently, spiritual and creative figures). What other examples from Western history seem to fit this phenomenon?

And if these experiences are indeed, in the right setting, conducive to spirituality and at times even to enlightenment, it would seem quite tragic if the Western setting is thwarting this potential, rendering potential sages confused, troubled and ashamed. I think for instance of the Indian Papaji. From childhood he had seen vivid visions of Krishna. As these visions became less frequent he set out on a journey to find again the Hindu god, eventually coming to deep realizations about ultimate reality. He abandoned the idea of the visions of Krishna as being reality, understanding that what appears and disappears is not real, and thus searching for that that is always present and doesn't change, the true nature behind the self, the bare awareness beyond conceptions or ego, behind the very question Who Am I. This is an inspiring and profound teaching in my opinion. Had Papaji grown up in the west, I suspect he would have ended as a miserable being on the fringes of society instead of as a great teacher. Could there be similar individuals, gifted by nature but cursed by their cultural setting, who have spontaneously experienced true reality without the proper preparation or guidance, now rotting in insane asylums? What specific mental "disorders" may fit what would otherwise be defined as spiritual, potentially enlightening modes of perception?


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Offlinewindowlikcer
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Re: Psychedelics and Eastern Philosophy [Re: danny1989]
    #18708702 - 08/15/13 11:33 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Bliss experienced through meditation is different than that which is experienced through drugs.

I used to see the two as different paths to the same truth until this last weekend when I spent 14 hours in meditation with a renown Tibetan lama.

The bliss that can be achieved through meditation is deeper and more expansive than any sort of high.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Psychedelics and Eastern Philosophy [Re: danny1989]
    #18708971 - 08/15/13 12:39 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

The Eastern-Western division is perhaps best seen as intellectual versus devotional spiritual practices. If you read Interior Castle by Teresa of Avila, you'll see her own taxonomy of experiences of bliss and rapture described as a mandalic or onion-shell model towards union at the center. John of the Cross delineates other 'moments' of the spiritual life from the most unconscious aspects (Dark Night of the Soul, of the Senses) to states of illumination. The Eastern Orthodox Hesychasts embody the most Yoga-like techniques of bodily postures, following the breath with the mind from head to heart, and the use of mantra (Prayer of the Heart). But, Hindu, Taoist, and Tibetan Buddhist Yogas are by far THE most intellectual explication of mystical physiology, pathways of prana/winds, binds, nadir, chakras, and ascending-descending paths to unification and realization. The best book IMO is Foundations of Tibetan Buddhism by Lama Anagarika Govinda.

While it is true that there is a place for devotion in Buddhism, to one's guru, as in Hinduism, Hinduism has more devotional (Bhakti) paths to any number of its deities. In Vajrayana Buddhism, one tends to identify with a Dakini or Heruka, not worship them in the typically western sense of worshipping God.

There is evidence that some early Christians used Amanita muscaria  http://distelrath.tripod.com/fabbro.htm ; you will have to consider your explorations of psychedelic states to be a new chapter in post-modern religious life. After many centuries of absence, there are, for example, Gnostic Christian churches. While I have no such congregation near me, I am in contact with Tau, Rosamonde Ikshvàku Miller, of the Gnostic Church in San Francisco, the Ecclesia Gnostica Mysteriorum, which I would certainly attend if I lived there. I would also use P. cubensis in the service of my faith. So, in the future, history will hopefully record that in the late 20th century, there arose certain types of Entheogenic Gnostic religion in the world.

Stan Grof has a book Spiritual Emergencies, http://www.amazon.com/Spiritual-Emergency-Personal-Transformation-Consciousness/dp/0874775388/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1376590923&sr=8-1&keywords=spiritual+emergencies%2C+grof ; which I think addresses your final question. Typically, psychedelic states are reduced by the medical establishment to 'depersonalization,' 'derealization,' Hallucinogen Induced Psychosis/Psychotic Disorder, and other pejorative labels. Sometimes psychedelics do precipitate latent mental illnesses. That is a fact.

A certain degree of maturity is required by differing traditions for mystical pursuits. Jewish Kabbalism should begin no earlier than age 40 (although one major author was in his 20s) for reasons I have described on this forum before. Namely, having important and ecstatic revelations about the nature of Reality at an early age, particularly on psychedelics, is very possible. I am a case of this. But, such revelations are very difficult to live with. Most acid heads I knew did everything to re-bury their heads in the sand of worldliness. They turned to alcohol, work, career-building, family-building, etc. Nothing wrong with these things in themselves (I had to get an education and build a career) but I'm talking about pushing the cosmic view out of your awareness and relegating your spiritual life to going to church once in a while, or even becoming 'religious,' which is to say, having faith in someone else's spiritual experience instead of working on your own (which is the Gnostic way). Psychedelic users like Jim Morrison, Jimi Hendrix, and even Jerry Garcia got lost IMO, turning to opiates, which is the way to unconsciousness not superconsciousness. Perhaps they too fell into the accursed position of being unable, and/or unwilling to live up to the purity they experienced in very high places. The vices need to be eliminated if one is to live according to the highest experiences. One cannot be addicted to tobacco, alcohol, opiates, sex, food, or anything else if one is living in accordance with Reality/Tao/Whateveryouwanttocallit. It is a holy life of retained innocence, purity without puritanicalness, IMO. Most people are not up to it and prefer, like Cipher in The Matrix, to forget Reality and be reinserted back into The Matrix.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: Psychedelics and Eastern Philosophy [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18709309 - 08/15/13 02:06 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stan Grof has a book Spiritual Emergencies




Such a simple yet exciting book!

I love his writing and experience.

When the Impossible Happens and The Holotropic Mind are really good too.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Psychedelics and Eastern Philosophy [Re: danny1989]
    #18710785 - 08/15/13 06:49 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

the obvious links have to do with attempts to be consistent about seeing, understanding and explaining suffering, life, and states of mind - which can be mysterious and disorienting.

a thing may be "spiritual" in the sense that it motivates one to seek understanding, and ethical resolutions to "suffering", or to consider the understanding of others.

that is the same if you are stoned or if you are sick or if you are in any altered state, in contrast to an idealized normal state which is desirable (in both the west and in the east) precisely because it does not stimulate any disorientation or questioning.

Even in Buddhism, altered states (from dhyana from anapanasati) of mind are not considered achievements worth craving, but they are appreciated anyway as windows into expanded (self) awareness, and perspectives on reality, hopefully leading to better ethics (such as boddhisattvic compassion) and better habits in general.

among habits a meditation habit is very helpful (for ordinary concentration, and mental resilience, and creativity)

the art of the far east seems very inspired by serious stoners, or people of vision, possibly very sick and dying, or on shrooms or just resonant after hours of meditation.

So does the decoration of the greek orthodox (coptic as well) church in my opinion.

and the sufis dance a dervish whirl to go beyond normal cognitive experience, so it is not just the east.

while you and i may have intention or a goal of changing our state of mind by using psychedelic, not everyone with spiritual orientation is like that.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineJaegar
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Re: Psychedelics and Eastern Philosophy [Re: redgreenvines]
    #18713293 - 08/16/13 06:25 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

C'mon guys stop chasing fantasies and grow up.


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